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like, seriously think about this, how are u. millenials mostly came of voting age when the economy poo poo the bed, and obama did gently caress-all to fix a single goddamn thing. now zoomers are turning 18 during either the shittiness of trump's administration or the useless ~*~dEcOrUm~*~ of biden's and seeing their future prospects as being even shittier than the lovely prospects millenials were staring down a decade ago, and like before the democrats are offering them gently caress-all and in fact are scolding them for demanding better. and you think anyone left of the center-right has enough faith in our institutions to actively participate in them? get fuckin real, dude. people below the age of like 40 rightfully have no fuckin faith in our government, millenials aren't gonna come save us all when they've been repeatedly hosed over their entire adult lives by the government. your argument is the same 'demographics are destiny' hollow horse poo poo that has gotten us to where we are now. look at the reality you are facing instead of trying to wish away the dreadful future our leaders, including those who are members of the democratic party, have ensured us.
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May 4, 2022 00:49
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Fart Amplifier posted:Christ, read the thread. Investigations are legal. Using them against senators as pressure for legislation is not. I mean, from a moral perspective an hour in a dark room with a certain kind of contractor to get him and sin to “change their minds” to get rid of the filibuster is justified at this point, but it wouldn’t be technically legal. But who cares. It would save a poo poo ton of lives. That’s a hypothetical of course.
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May 4, 2022 00:50
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Karl Barks posted:No one is suggesting Biden announce on MSNBC they're investigating Manchin specifically to get his vote on a specific bill. That's a pretty silly assumption. It would be nice if you could point out where I said that instead of making poo poo up. You literally suggested that they investigate Manchin as a tactic to deal with him holding up a bill.
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May 4, 2022 00:50
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https://twitter.com/mj_lee/status/1521562583769178113?s=21&t=OxqFPX8jYZjhlAerGyZ-FA I look at this tweet and just know that things aren’t going to go well for the democrats in the midterms. Instead of doing something now that is well within their Constitutional ability as of now, they’re just going to campaign on it. https://twitter.com/mj_lee/status/1521563873207369730?s=21&t=OxqFPX8jYZjhlAerGyZ-FA This is the kind of moment that you pull out all of the stops for
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May 4, 2022 00:52
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Reverend Dr posted:https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1172/vote_117_2_00065.htm This is all theater, no different than Ted Cruz or Lindsay Graham. If they believed any of this poo poo they'd have done or do something about it. Instead it's about fundraising.
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May 4, 2022 00:54
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Main Paineframe posted:I think you are vastly underestimating the difference between "nationwide general strike involving tens of millions of workers throughout the entire economy" and "NBA players' strike in which a few dozen wealthy athletes don't play sports on TV for a bit". Both in terms of impact, and in terms of difficulty. That's not something you can arrange with a few phone calls, especially given the high risk to the workers involved and the considerable economic collateral damage that would result (to the detriment of pretty much everyone, not just capitalists). I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to say the hypothetical I used was just an example to illustrate the dynamics I'm talking about in a post that was about posters eliding the choices of the political class by drilling down on the feasibility of individual examples but it sure seems like a lot quote:But overall, I would say there's a fundamental misconception that needs correcting: ultimately, Manchin is not accountable to Schumer or Biden. He's accountable to the voters of West Virginia. They are the only ones who can genuinely change his behavior - and if they support his stance on abortion, then there's no way that national Dem leadership could possibly get him to go against that. Especially since he has far more leverage over Dem leadership than Dem leadership has over him. Biden got less than 30% of the vote in West Virginia in 2020, there's no way Manchin's gonna be scared of Biden getting up on the podium and calling him a jerk. I mean this is only true if you use an extremely narrow definition of accountable that is carefully constrained within the bounds of extant liberal political norms
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May 4, 2022 00:55
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Regarde Aduck posted:no one has 5-10 years to waste Please lay out your evidence.
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May 4, 2022 00:55
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I think leaving abortion up to the states is the best of both worlds for me. Think about it: All red states ban abortion completely. These states are overwhelmingly white. All blue states keep abortion legal. These states are overwhelmingly not white and the abortions there are overwhelmingly not white. In 20 or 30 years the gene pool will finally begin to heal. Only thing I worry about is the big black populations in southern states. Possible solution though, offer free transport for "certain communities" to blue states for abortions in these southern states. Now, will the stupid hick evangelicals that hyperventilate over the "sanctity of life" go along with it? Probably not, they don't seem to give a poo poo about this nation's genetic health. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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May 4, 2022 00:55
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I've been hammering on this for a good long while and even started a thread about it like a decade ago but I don't think the true influence of right wing media can really be underestimated in all this. The way it's shaped people's world views and how they draw "information" has, to me, reached critical mass. To the point where we have true believers who grew up on this poo poo in office right now talking about rigged elections, adrenochrome, rampant pedophilia, and Q poo poo. Most of it has genuinely become mainstream and has succeeded in moving the Overton Window so far to the right over time that most people didn't even notice. Six years ago, most people on this board were laughing at Donald Trump, then when he won calling him a joke who would never get anything done and scolding people who were concerned for saying the sky is falling. poo poo, people here were laughing at the anniversary of 1/6 and calling it a joke. It's not. The sky IS falling. This nation on a rapid track to theocratic fascism and I honestly don't see a way out. You can feel the meanness and cruelty in the air, seasoned with the poisonous spice of desperation. We're in big BIG loving trouble here and I don't see the humor in any of it nor the necessity of dishing out probes to people who point it out and mods threatening to double down on them. Give me a week off and a time out if you want but I'm pretty old and have watched this poo poo unfold since the Moral Majority, Reagan and, again, the real rise of right wing propaganda and media domination. I also don't think I'm wrong. I'm not crazy. I'm sad, powerless and loving terrified of this runaway right wing freight train.
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May 4, 2022 00:55
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BiggerBoat posted:I've been hammering on this for a good long while and even started a thread about it like a decade ago but I don't think the true influence of right wing media can really be underestimated in all this. The way it's shaped people's world views and how they draw "information" has, to me, reached critical mass. To the point where we have true believers who grew up on this poo poo in office right now talking about rigged elections, adrenochrome, rampant pedophilia, and Q poo poo. The only thing that will save "The West" or even the world is a complete dismantling and extinction of the right wing and any ability for it to gain power/influence.
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May 4, 2022 00:59
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BoingBoing posted:I think leaving abortion up to the states is the best of both worlds for me. Think about it: Eugenics but woke
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May 4, 2022 01:00
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Gatts posted:The only thing that will save "The West" or even the world is a complete dismantling and extinction of the right wing and any ability for it to gain power/influence. How are you gonna do that?
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May 4, 2022 01:00
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Fart Amplifier posted:It would be nice if you could point out where I said that instead of making poo poo up. I'm suggesting they play hardball with intransigent members of their own party to achieve political results that help their constituents.
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May 4, 2022 01:02
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Fart Amplifier posted:It would be nice if you could point out where I said that instead of making poo poo up. They should inconvenience him in whatever way is possible so that he stops being an oppressor. If they have to do questionable things to do it, they should not claim that those things are good, but they should be willing to do them for the greater benefit (saving lives.) In this case, playing footsy with an investigation is less wrong than aiding Manchin in his oppression by allowing him to continue.
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May 4, 2022 01:06
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I think a good way to think about this is “How many women dying because of botched illegal abortions are you willing to countenance before you support or even advocate illegal or immoral means to secure the rights of bodily autonomy for women?” For me it’s 0, the number of dead women I can accept because of this ruling is 0.
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May 4, 2022 01:07
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Harold Fjord posted:Make local connections. It's a lot harder under capitalism but it's all there is left. This system cannot hold and as climate change makes things generally worse they are gonna get more ecofash. They aren't coming for you today, but they are coming and it doesn't seem like anyone has a coherent, legal, moral plan for the Democratic party to stop them. How do I go about getting someone to give up their livelihood to wipe my rear end if I can't pay them?
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May 4, 2022 01:08
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Spoke Lee posted:What can I do as a disabled person to protect myself? In 2017 it took every Dem senator and a few R's to prevent Medicaid from becoming a block grant, and it came down to a single vote. Nationally elected officials mattered there. Local organizing doesn't work when state budgets can't cover personal care assistance for it's disabled population. Do we just accept out fates and relinquish our autonomy to be abused and neglected in some facility? Are we just expendable for the revolution? Is there is a plan in place to care for us during the downfall before things get better? Completely ignoring the obviously frivolous assumptions that a leftist government would abandon disabled people, the answer for what to do now to protect yourself is to find local mutual aid and support networks that exist, utilize them as needed and help expand them as able. If your survival depends on any functioning national or state level government you *will* have that rug pulled, so start locating and communicating with these groups sooner rather than later. You've just been shown you that you cannot vote to keep your rights.
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May 4, 2022 01:10
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BoingBoing posted:I think leaving abortion up to the states is the best of both worlds for me. Think about it:  Hey is this one of those educational positions we're going to not moderate against?
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May 4, 2022 01:13
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How are u posted:Please lay out your evidence. my dude have you not noticed the extensive measures occurring in state houses to give Republicans the authority to overrule to results of elections?
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May 4, 2022 01:14
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Jaxyon posted:
If you have a moral or logical argument against my position, please make it.
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May 4, 2022 01:14
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BoingBoing posted:I think leaving abortion up to the states is the best of both worlds for me. Think about it: You are a monstrous person for viewing the lives of the vulnerable as nothing but chafe to be discarded Simply vile
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May 4, 2022 01:15
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BoingBoing posted:I think leaving abortion up to the states is the best of both worlds for me. Think about it: What the gently caress is this bullshit?
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May 4, 2022 01:16
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ozmunkeh posted:What the gently caress is this bullshit? it's a troll by a likely rereg account edit: and I guess I should have clarified in the probe text but that's a placeholder. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 01:17
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Fritz the Horse posted:it's a troll by a likely rereg account :hair:
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May 4, 2022 01:17
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I mean hai.
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May 4, 2022 01:17
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Koos Group posted:I mean hai. You going to ban it, then, or do we need to give them the assumption of good faith?
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May 4, 2022 01:19
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Kanos posted:Demographics as destiny is a hell of a thing to put all your cards on. Especially given a lot of the polling cross tabs I've been looking at for the last 8 or 10 months. People aren't just automatically going to hand you their vote because of their skin color, age, gender or sexual preference and taking that for granted is something they are increasingly beginning to find insulting.
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May 4, 2022 01:19
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Mellow Seas posted:HELP, REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AND THE ONE THING I CAN DO TO HELP, VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS,GIVES ME SADS, SO THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO EVER, WAAAAH that's an illogical retort to issue: voting for democrats won't solve anything, democrats are not going to save us
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May 4, 2022 01:20
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selec posted:I think a good way to think about this is “How many women dying because of botched illegal abortions are you willing to countenance before you support or even advocate illegal or immoral means to secure the rights of bodily autonomy for women?” I have a sickening feeling that infanticide is going to skyrocket. It's going to be commonplace for someone to run into dead or dying infant in a dumpster or left exposed. As much as women dying of illegal abortions, I don't everyone is ready for a million Casey Anthonys.
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May 4, 2022 01:21
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So let’s say that the Dems do get to 60 senators. What’s keeping Manchin or someone similar just completely tanking the agenda by not being the 60th vote?
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May 4, 2022 01:23
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selec posted:I think a good way to think about this is “How many women dying because of botched illegal abortions are you willing to countenance before you support or even advocate illegal or immoral means to secure the rights of bodily autonomy for women?” This already puts you in the negative in terms of death rate. Women already die to botched backdoor abortions, right now. So, what have you advocated for so far, and considering what's about to happen, how successful has that really been? Why continue with what is effectively your status quo? theCalamity posted:So let’s say that the Dems do get to 60 senators. What’s keeping Manchin or someone similar just completely tanking the agenda by not being the 60th vote? Do they need 60 or 51?
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May 4, 2022 01:23
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RBA Starblade posted:Do they need 60 or 51? Gotta have 60 to end debate right? theCalamity fucked around with this message at 01:28 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 01:25
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theCalamity posted:Gotta have 60 to end debate right? If we need over 60 to have no way to contest or question it then let's strive for that. I thought it was just a simple majority.
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May 4, 2022 01:29
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Skyl3lazer posted:Completely ignoring the obviously frivolous assumptions that a leftist government would abandon disabled people, the answer for what to do now to protect yourself is to find local mutual aid and support networks that exist, utilize them as needed and help expand them as able. If your survival depends on any functioning national or state level government you *will* have that rug pulled, so start locating and communicating with these groups sooner rather than later. Obviously a leftist government would provide supports. I'm talking about in the meantime when people boycott the vote and conservatives block grant medicaid. The only thing that stopped that from happening 5 years ago was voting. Can you help me find one of these mutual aid groups? I'm in some in the South Jersey / Philly area and skilled nursing and personal care for 110 hours a week for no pay is something I have yet to encounter. I want you to imagine you can't move your body. Operating from that reality what do you think would go into keeping you alive and a part of your community, and then from there, millions like you?
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May 4, 2022 01:30
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RBA Starblade posted:If we need over 60 to have no way to contest or question it then let's strive for that. I thought it was just a simple majority. It could be a simple majority without the lazy filibuster.
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May 4, 2022 01:32
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A big flaming stink posted:You going to ban it, then, or do we need to give them the assumption of good faith? they're a rereg of a permabanned user, case closed
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May 4, 2022 01:33
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:anecdotally, both the republican and libertatian student groups at my college had way, way more support and representation than the democrats. i say that as the fuckin vice president of the dems on my campus, which by the way had proportionally one of the highest trans representations in the whole goddamn country. How do you square this with the fact that younger ages groups consistently vote for Democrats and more progressive politicians, and prefer more progressive policies, than their seniors? Yes, the right wing millennials are real loving right wing but that's a symptom of partisan polarization, not the kids all being fash.
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May 4, 2022 01:37
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Fritz the Horse posted:they're a rereg of a permabanned user, case closed  very good carry on
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May 4, 2022 01:39
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theCalamity posted:So let’s say that the Dems do get to 60 senators. What’s keeping Manchin or someone similar just completely tanking the agenda by not being the 60th vote? When the Senate had a vote to change the filibuster a few months ago, it got 48 votes out of 50 Democrats. So it depends how many of those ten new votes are for it. Or how many of those 48 are super secretly against it despite their voting records. The first would receive lots of public input in the form of primary and general elections, the second is a matter of personal faith that cannot be proved or disproved. Either way, in a scenario where Democrats get 60 Senate seats it seems unlikely that the number needed to pass a major party priority will be 61 exactly. Barring the Blue Dogs coming back somehow but the route to that feels unlikely.
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May 4, 2022 01:39
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RBA Starblade posted:This already puts you in the negative in terms of death rate. Women already die to botched backdoor abortions, right now. So, what have you advocated for so far, and considering what's about to happen, how successful has that really been? Why continue with what is effectively your status quo? Dang dog, you got me; the left wasn’t sufficiently militant enough, that’s the reason this happened. All their power, gone to waste. Conversely, it sounds like this is just one place on a spectrum, but not so unacceptable a place to land that you’d advocate anything extreme to respond to it, right? I’m trying to figure out exactly what you think is going to fix this, and what you think should happen to the women who die, or go to jail, in the meantime? Because if you insist on sticking to the decorum-approved methods, we’re looking at (and this is almost perversely optimistic) eight years of this minimum. So that’s a lot of lives thrown away on a system that didn’t even value women enough to give them the vote when it was founded.
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May 4, 2022 01:42
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