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I was hoping to find some actual roguelikes on sale I hadn't seen before but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. At this point the term seems entirely meaningless. Going forward let's all agree to only use the term 'roguelike' for tileset or ascii turn-based randomized permadeath games and everything else is just 'game with gaming elements'.
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May 3, 2022 17:25
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goferchan posted:https://twitter.com/playunexplored/status/1521173150582648833?s=21&t=PNtVcFuX8IsO_MEiIM4xNg The idea that there is meta progression unless you fail the final mission, in which case it's a 100% game over restart, sounds awful. Why would they think this conceit is appealing? Unless the game is relatively short and meant to be played and beat many times over and restarting from total scratch is not a big deal?
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May 3, 2022 17:29
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bring back steam tags like "extreme sexual violence" if its going to be so vague. it was fun seeing that tag on like, hidden object games
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May 3, 2022 17:29
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Revita I like the default control scheme on game pad but dear god Dash absolutely needs to go somewhere else from the default kb+m location because Shift is just the wrong place for such an important button. I wound up binding it to RMB, put subweapon on Q and moved soul charge to Shift and have not regretted it on the slightest.
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May 3, 2022 17:30
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goferchan posted:I should give that fire-by-aiming setting a try. I'm worried it would mess me up with some of the guns though, there's a sniper rifle that particularly would be hard. Also re: Revita, has anyone else gotten pretty deep into progression? I'm on Shard 12 now I think, currently trying to unlock all of the alt-guns. Some of the mechanics on them are pretty wild. -- also still have quite a few secrets to clean up. A couple of them aren't too hard but go against my usual playstyle so much (like "offer 3 hearts to each area's statue") that I keep putting them off. Been playing pretty casually so not at all deep into progression (working on the shard 5 secret at the moment), but I do like that even for runs where I 'fail' to progress I can work on at least clearing the game to try an alt weapon. The disappointment when I found out that my pal charge gun's first alt was this bizarrely terrible hold-charge-fire thing was immeasurable. I think pre-1.0 the hardest secret achievement I had to unlock was the "buy out all shops one", which I only managed to do by turning off bonus shop pedestals and running on a low shard count. This is fairly unhelpful to your point about the 12 hp mother statue challenge (I tried a few times to cheat it by getting a fully upgraded Faith, but it's one relic that never ever triggers for me so I had to just bite the bullet and do it legit), but since when were you able to donate an uncapped amount of hearts to them? I only tried in ticking tower top but saw I could just dump 8 hp into a statue.
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May 3, 2022 17:37
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You've been able to do that since some point during EA for sure, I always remembered being able to do it unless my memory is deceiving me. Not sure how the rarity+ boost works and if it's a good investment though.
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May 3, 2022 17:41
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Came by to see if thread was in shambles from Steam sale, was not disappointed Also Salt and Sacrifice comes out next week on EGS It's a Roguel*****
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May 3, 2022 17:42
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When I see something labeled roguelike, I know it's going to be a game that plays differently every time I lose and start over. That's good enough for me. I still have no idea what soulslike means. Every time I try to get a definition, people only come back with "It's hard", which I'm pretty sure wasn't invented by Dark Souls.
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May 3, 2022 18:15
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Farquar posted:I still have no idea what soulslike means. Every time I try to get a definition, people only come back with "It's hard", which I'm pretty sure wasn't invented by Dark Souls. It usually involves limited resources or losing currency on death. It's a very specific thing.
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May 3, 2022 18:18
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There are a few games that copy a crazy amount from dark souls to the point they feel like off-brand sequels (Code Vein is the one I remember best). But I don't think it's useful outside of that and I don't think it's aged well as a term, even something like Nioh doesn't seem fair to lump in with souls games.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:28 on May 3, 2022 |
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May 3, 2022 18:20
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Relin posted:bring back steam tags like "extreme sexual violence" if its going to be so vague. it was fun seeing that tag on like, hidden object games I'm sure this is a joke and all, but trivializing sexual violence actually really loving sucks
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May 3, 2022 18:26
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No Wave posted:There are a few games that copy a crazy amount from dark souls to the point they feel like off-brand sequels (Code Vein is the one I remember best). But I don't think it's useful outside of that and I don't think it's aged well as a term, even something like Nioh doesn't seem fair to lump in with souls games. Nioh is extremely Soulsy, though.
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May 3, 2022 18:35
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OK, having now read (I can't really justify this) the post they made with the sale, it seems like they themselves are pretty aware what roguelikes vs. lites are, and that soulslikes and metroidvanias are a separate thing they have just bundled in for the purposes of the sale. Mozi posted:I was hoping to find some actual roguelikes on sale I hadn't seen before but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. At this point the term seems entirely meaningless. Going forward let's all agree to only use the term 'roguelike' for tileset or ascii turn-based randomized permadeath games and everything else is just 'game with gaming elements'. I think on steam the way to get roguelikes now is "Traditional Roguelike". It seems like that tag is still niche enough that people aren't lumping their games under it just for the sake of SEO.
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May 3, 2022 20:36
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Farquar posted:When I see something labeled roguelike, I know it's going to be a game that plays differently every time I lose and start over. That's good enough for me. AFAIK, it's something like: - relatively deliberate real-time combat with an emphasis on positioning and resource management; no button mashing - high lethality - save points that refill your resources but also respawn enemies; enemies do not respawn otherwise - upgrade resource(s) that is lost on death, but can be recovered with a successful corpse run - [optional but seems to be very popular] everything is brown and like, covered in death and blood and misery just all the time At some point it's just going to turn into "any game that has corpse runs" and Diablo 2 will be retroactively declared a soulslike, like is already happening with -- King of Solomon posted:Nioh is extremely Soulsy, though. -- that, which as far as I can tell is kind of what happened if someone went "what if we took Dark Souls but sped up the combat by like 4x, added all sorts of weird fighting-game-style combos, and also included all the worst parts of Diablo-style itemization". And for my part, I've generally drawn the line between roguelike/roguelite on whether it's realtime or not. If you draw the line at metaprogression that makes Dungeonmans, ToME4, and, depending on how you argue it, DoomRL and Nethack into "roguelites".
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May 3, 2022 21:19
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It needs to have a dodge roll
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May 3, 2022 21:22
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I picked up Brutal Orchestra on the rogue sale and it's pretty drat good, haven't seen much discussion on it. It has a cool weird as hell aesthetic, shitton of unlocks, and I very much love this poo poo, but no +1-to-punching-style metaprogression. Also pretty hard, but so far fair. Seems like it just got a pretty big content update as well. Really digging it.
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May 3, 2022 21:52
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grate deceiver posted:I picked up Brutal Orchestra on the rogue sale and it's pretty drat good, haven't seen much discussion on it. It has a cool weird as hell aesthetic, shitton of unlocks, and I very much love this poo poo, but no +1-to-punching-style metaprogression. Also pretty hard, but so far fair. Seems like it just got a pretty big content update as well. Really digging it. I bought it too and yeah, same feeling. Interesting, hard, fair. The soundtrack is absolutely amazing. I also picked up Automon which is really stupid but quite fun if you are interested in a trashy pokemon auto chess but it's a bit out of topic. And I re-bought Chrono Ark to see if I like it this time (I still have one hour of demo left) while also testing Erannorth Chronicles (I spent 70h on the first one and the art style is finally decent in this one, so fingers crossed).
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May 3, 2022 22:16
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Mozi posted:I was hoping to find some actual roguelikes on sale I hadn't seen before but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. At this point the term seems entirely meaningless. Going forward let's all agree to only use the term 'roguelike' for tileset or ascii turn-based randomized permadeath games and everything else is just 'game with gaming elements'. Doors of Trithius maybe? Seemed like a better Stoneshard. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1519490/The_Doors_of_Trithius/ https://doorsoftrithius.com/roadmap/
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May 3, 2022 22:20
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ToxicFrog posted:...At some point it's just going to turn into "any game that has corpse runs" and Diablo 2 will be retroactively declared a soulslike... Orange DeviI posted:It needs to have a dodge roll give us another few years to file off the dodge roll requirement so we can declare Meridian 59 a pioneering soulslike
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May 3, 2022 22:38
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Irony.or.Death posted:give us another few years to file off the dodge roll requirement so we can declare Meridian 59 a pioneering soulslike now there's a name I haven't heard... in a long time
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May 3, 2022 22:41
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victrix posted:Also Salt and Sacrifice comes out next week on EGS Thank you for your discretion.
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May 4, 2022 00:15
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Loddfafnir posted:Doors of Trithius maybe? Seemed like a better Stoneshard. I grabbed Doors of Trithius and Soulash and I'm real happy
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May 4, 2022 00:33
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Genre is a lovely way to categorize stuff in any case. It's useful as a shorthand, but once people start focusing on the shorthand more than the things it's a shorthand for, it has worn out its welcome. The problems are the same as inheritance in programming. As soon as you try to add anything interesting (like a talking door) you end up having to Frankenstein together a mishmash of ill-fitting classes, none of which really fit it (it's a creature, but it can't hold items like creatures normally can; it's a door, but if you interact with it we need a menu to pick whether to talk to it or open it). Composition is much nicer, and lets you point at Spelunky and NetHack and say "these games share a number of traits," as opposed to "these are kind of the same kind of game, sort of."
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May 4, 2022 01:09
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Loddfafnir posted:I bought it too and yeah, same feeling. Interesting, hard, fair. Never heard of Brutal Orchestra but buying based on these posts, thanks. Oh I got Astronarch because I was jonesing for a single player/roguelite auto chess game (also I really want to make one) but Automon looks cool too, I'll check it out thank you!
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May 4, 2022 03:47
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Sami posted a screenshot of 1992 UnReal World for the Steam sale. I remember hearing that back then it was more akin to NetHack or something and indeed the screenshot shows a bunch of dungeon rooms and the PC is a half-troll. Not many games have a 30 year development history, much less have gone through such a radical change in vision.
TOOT BOOT fucked around with this message at 04:31 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 04:29
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Megasabin posted:The idea that there is meta progression unless you fail the final mission, in which case it's a 100% game over restart, sounds awful. Why would they think this conceit is appealing? Unless the game is relatively short and meant to be played and beat many times over and restarting from total scratch is not a big deal? Haven't played it in a while and it may well have changed since then, but I don't think it's an inherently bad idea. It helps if you conceptualize it as a "pure" roguelike with no metaprogression, except in this case instead of a game where you play as one character, it's actually a campaign that lets you pick up with a new character when one dies, but still has possible failstates if you don't meet your ultimate objectives. Think of it like an ironman campaign in X-Com or something. edit edit: Also it helps if you don't think of it as like, the game spitefully wiping your save. If you beat the final mission, then it's also a 100% game over restart, just one where you won. It's not necessarily a game you'll beat in one day but it's definitely relatively short compared to many other roguelites where you're meant to just play on the same file and continue growing stronger forever. goferchan fucked around with this message at 05:22 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 05:15
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bees x1000 posted:playing some Shiren, trying to complete the training house, then they add 4 more pages shiren is so sick
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May 4, 2022 05:29
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goferchan posted:Never heard of Brutal Orchestra but buying based on these posts, thanks. I don't want to derail this thread so is there a thread about single player auto chess games? (Also I would have said that Astronarch is an auto battler but not an auto chess because it lack the party building / duplicate finding aspect, but we come back to the discussion about game genre)
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May 4, 2022 08:39
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megane posted:Genre is a lovely way to categorize stuff in any case. It's useful as a shorthand, but once people start focusing on the shorthand more than the things it's a shorthand for, it has worn out its welcome. So you're saying the one true way of categorizing games is composition via traits/mixins?
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May 4, 2022 13:36
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Are updates and dlc meta progression?
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May 4, 2022 14:04
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horse armour in my roguelike
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May 4, 2022 14:26
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Astronarch owns
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May 4, 2022 14:55
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Please no more pixel graphic games 
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May 4, 2022 15:26
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Please? no. more pixel graphic games!
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May 4, 2022 15:27
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death cob for cutie posted:Have we talked about Shotgun King? yo this game whips rear end
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May 4, 2022 15:59
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I'm okay with pixel art, though I don't prefer it, but that tall characters with thin legs style is a thing of horror and I hate that it keeps being used.
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May 4, 2022 16:00
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luchadornado posted:So you're saying the one true way of categorizing games is composition via traits/mixins? Using entity-component-system architecture to categorize my game library (I mean, this is basically what the use of many-to-many tags->games mapping is meant to accomplish, as opposed to putting each game into a single category, it's just that people then immediately try to use them as genres)
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May 4, 2022 16:35
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Man Soulash is cool as hell. Had a bunch of real brief runs but I now have a human Fallen Knight up to level 4. I cleared a little village or two, and have mauled a few levels of what seems to be a dwarf/troglodyte co-op. Last level up I learned to breathe fire, things are getting good.
Gooch181 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 18:57
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I can't quite grasp how impossibly loving stupid True Enoch is in Rogue Legacy 2. Like I've got plat in Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring but this trainwreck of a boss has so much unavoidable damage that it makes me want to throw my joypad at the wall. Is it supposed to be this hard? Should I stop playing roguelikes right after work?  Though overall RL2 feels like an excellent roguelite so far, one of the best in ages.
Kawabata fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 4, 2022 |
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May 4, 2022 19:26
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Kawabata posted:I can't quite grasp how impossibly loving stupid True Enoch is in Rogue Legacy 2. Retromation video from today has this fight (twice, actually), you may want to check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naEwZa_ZTBI
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