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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Diversity is cool, actually
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May 5, 2022 04:01
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RandomReader posted:Okay, but that child isn't real. She's a fictional character, and I can see the puppet strings putting a child on the scene and making it's puppet point out Layla's ethnicity/nationality for the whole world to applaud. I know all the characters are fictional and their positioning and dialogue are all equally arbitrary to serve the needs of the story, but I don't care for the story of this child so the strings stand out. Yeah but you have to understand: pik_d posted:The dialog was ham fisted but it had to be. These are the kind of things that some people just will not get if it isn't spelled out. It looks like it's going to be a big focus of Ms. Marvel as well. Star Trek Discovery (which is bad overall) had a scene where a gay couple who more or less adopt a non-binary person have a conversation about the correct use of pronouns for the non-binary person. It is really blunt because there are people in the audience need it to be for them to understand. The reason is that LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Diversity is cool, actually Not just cool but also necessary.
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May 5, 2022 04:04
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It also makes The Quartering really sad, which is a bonus.
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May 5, 2022 04:06
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The "are you an Egyptian superhero" part was really sweet. I hope we see these characters pop up in more films and series in the future. I didn't know a single solitary thing about Moon Knight before this series, but I quite enjoyed it for what it was and look forward to more.
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May 5, 2022 04:08
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Tom Tucker posted:I never give two shits about any representation or acknowledgement about representation because at one point, when I still thought it was maybe a bit much, I was at a screening of Endgame and when all the women superheroes assembled at once a girl a few rows in front of me literally jumped to her feet and yelled "It's all the girls doing it!!!" while hopping up and down. Right because even if I, personally, thought this scene was loving terrible and horribly executed it still made someone feel included. But this scene was a lot better. Gave me visible happiness. My little cousin was Miles Morales for at least a month. 
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May 5, 2022 04:12
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What's made Marvel great is that their characters can be identified with. Tony Stark has major flaws that sometimes interfere with his life. Steve Rogers tries his best but what the best thing to do isn't always certain. How they sort through that is a human journey. We can relate to that even if we can't fly or punch through concrete wall. So the little girl seeing a hero, and one she can identify with is a sweet moment for her and for Layla.
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May 5, 2022 04:17
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Tom Tucker posted:So yeah representation matters and it's OK to acknowledge that in a show that would, otherwise, be nothing more than a threadbare dime-store veil cash-grab based on one of the most ancient cultures and religions on the planet. Yeah, this is an aspect that bothers me about the scene. Another is that I think any teaching value the scene can create is fudamentally compromised by Disney's status as a corporation -- Layla isn't an Egyptian superhero because the show feels very strongly about supporting Egyptian culture and all associated minorities, she's an Egyptian superhero because Disney feels strongly about exploiting Egyptian culture and all associated minorities. I think the scene is, on the face of it, a bit barefaced and clumsy, but I wouldn't mind if I felt the message was uncompromised.
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May 5, 2022 04:23
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Is Egypt really such a huge market that Disney is going to go out of its way to pander to it?
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May 5, 2022 04:28
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live with fruit posted:Is Egypt really such a huge market that Disney is going to go out of its way to pander to it? I think it was more along the lines of, “hey, we’re doing this show already so let’s point out that this is an Egyptian shows in case any Egyptians are watching it and we look like a great company!” Meanwhile obviously Disney only cares about profits and anything else is just PR.
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May 5, 2022 04:30
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live with fruit posted:Is Egypt really such a huge market that Disney is going to go out of its way to pander to it? It's Africa, OP. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/netflix-disney-pus-streamers-investment-africa-1235073026/
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May 5, 2022 04:30
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Open Source Idiom posted:It's Africa, OP. So Disney pandering to one African country gets them all 54?
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May 5, 2022 04:41
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The showrunner is an Egyptian guy, which I'm sure has a lot to do with it. I enjoyed the finale even if it did feel kind of rushed. When the credits began to roll I was extremely confused that they ended without getting into the obvious reveal of Jake. Of course then the mid credits came...
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May 5, 2022 04:47
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FlamingLiberal posted:The showrunner is an Egyptian guy, which I'm sure has a lot to do with it. The mid credits scene raised more questions than it answered though!!
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May 5, 2022 04:51
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Uh so are Marc/Steven not going to get real suspicious when they start blacking out and losing time? It only worked with Steven because he had no idea what was going on but they're obviously going to come to the conclusion that there's a 3rd personality. By the way right before the after-credits scene there's a shot of 3 different Moon knight costumes, the first one is presumably Jake's.
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May 5, 2022 05:15
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RatHat posted:Uh so are Marc/Steven not going to get real suspicious when they start blacking out and losing time? It only worked with Steven because he had no idea what was going on but they're obviously going to come to the conclusion that there's a 3rd personality. It was pretty sloppy how they just glossed over Marc blacking out and killing a whole group of guys in front of Layla.
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May 5, 2022 05:20
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live with fruit posted:It was pretty sloppy how they just glossed over Marc blacking out and killing a whole group of guys in front of Layla. Maybe they are aware of it, which is why they still use the footcuffs and the sand(Marc just forgot because he's not used to it) Another issue I had with the finale: As shown by Steven, you don't just immediately know how to fight when you become an avatar. So I thought it was kinda dumb Layla was immediately doing superhero stunts 5 minutes after becoming one. I dunno, maybe she's a mega fan of Falcon and wing-suits in her spare time or something. RatHat fucked around with this message at 05:26 on May 5, 2022 |
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May 5, 2022 05:23
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Anita Dickinme posted:I think it was more along the lines of, “hey, we’re doing this show already so let’s point out that this is an Egyptian shows in case any Egyptians are watching it and we look like a great company!” Yeah, but you might be over-estimating the level of involvement that the Disney board has with individual shows. It's not like they're re-writing the show's scripts on the fly or something. For the woke folks here on the board the Egypt superhero bit was pandering and unsubtle, but you guys aren't the only ones watching this show. There's a whole poo poo-ton of sleepy mother-fuckers on whom subtlety is utterly wasted and you have to ring their bells hard if you want them to get the point you're trying to make.
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May 5, 2022 05:27
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RandomReader posted:It's not hard to parse, it's just stupid. Caring about the race, nationality, or gender of the superhero who just saved you is pretty shallow, and I don't appreciate the show itself going out of it's way for the audience to see how awesome and great they are for having a female egyptain superhero. It's different from when Captain America and Spider-man had that little connection over growing up in New York, where it was just a funny coincidence of life, this is clearly a Big Moment. Lmaoooooo loving goons
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May 5, 2022 05:33
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Everyone posted:Yeah, but you might be over-estimating the level of involvement that the Disney board has with individual shows. It's not like they're re-writing the show's scripts on the fly or something. May Calamawy had half an hour's notice between learning about her character's superhero transformation and having to film that transformation on screen. These scripts were certainly being rewritten on the fly.
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May 5, 2022 05:36
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Open Source Idiom posted:May Calamawy had half an hour's notice between learning about her character's superhero transformation and having to film that transformation on screen. There, I made up a thing too
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May 5, 2022 05:40
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Open Source Idiom posted:May Calamawy had half an hour's notice between learning about her character's superhero transformation and having to film that transformation on screen. FTFY
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May 5, 2022 05:45
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Open Source Idiom posted:May Calamawy had half an hour's notice between learning about her character's superhero transformation and having to film that transformation on screen. Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm pretty sure they're not being re-written on the fly by the Disney board of directors.
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May 5, 2022 05:51
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:Diversity is cool, actually
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May 5, 2022 05:52
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Open Source Idiom posted:Another is that I think any teaching value the scene can create is fudamentally compromised by Disney's status as a corporation -- Layla isn't an Egyptian superhero because the show feels very strongly about supporting Egyptian culture and all associated minorities, she's an Egyptian superhero because Disney feels strongly about exploiting Egyptian culture and all associated minorities. The show's main director was Egyptian and he explicitly demanded to tell a story that supported Egyptian culture
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May 5, 2022 06:02
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Layla was originally Marlene and they changed her for the show to be Egyptian. Hey costume was cool as hell. She was a really good character.
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May 5, 2022 06:04
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Open Source Idiom posted:May Calamawy had half an hour's notice between learning about her character's superhero transformation and having to film that transformation on screen. The scene was originally going to be Layla talking to Tawaret, the director realised it would be cooler if Layla was talking to herself. It's not like the entire scene was dumped on the actor out of nowhere
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May 5, 2022 06:05
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Rarity posted:The scene was originally going to be Layla talking to Tawaret, the director realised it would be cooler if Layla was talking to herself. It's not like the entire scene was dumped on the actor out of nowhere And also way cheaper.
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May 5, 2022 06:11
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I didn't realize that Layla was a superhero from the comics that is called the "protector of Egypt." That makes it less a superhero who happens to be Egyptian and specifically an Egyptian superhero.
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May 5, 2022 06:18
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Edit: it doesn't matter
Darth Brooks fucked around with this message at 06:33 on May 5, 2022 |
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May 5, 2022 06:28
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RandomReader posted:It's not hard to parse, it's just stupid. Caring about the race, nationality, or gender of the superhero who just saved you is pretty shallow, and I don't appreciate the show itself going out of it's way for the audience to see how awesome and great they are for having a female egyptain superhero. It's different from when Captain America and Spider-man had that little connection over growing up in New York, where it was just a funny coincidence of life, this is clearly a Big Moment. lol
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May 5, 2022 06:28
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If I were a child living in an Earth where entire cities can be wiped out due to errant alien invasions or bullshit science weapons, I'd appreciate having a local superhero.
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May 5, 2022 06:53
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Is moon knight also the first Jewish superhero in the mcu?
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May 5, 2022 07:05
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Some of these groups of people haven't even ever had the courtesy of being pandered to now and then. Jesus, let the show about Egypt have some light pro-Egyptian comic book moments.
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May 5, 2022 07:10
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Rarity posted:The scene was originally going to be Layla talking to Tawaret, the director realised it would be cooler if Layla was talking to herself. It's not like the entire scene was dumped on the actor out of nowhere The precedent was already set for Tawaret possessing bodies with the goon corpses, so it's not much of a stretch for a director to get Layla to act out Tawaret's performance rather than film for a hippo lady to appear out of nowhere. It helps that the execution of it ended up being really good
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May 5, 2022 07:12
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Tagichatn posted:Is moon knight also the first Jewish superhero in the mcu? Explicitly Jewish, yeah. Although I’d be surprised if we saw Wanda going to a synagogue in MoM.
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May 5, 2022 09:35
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mutata posted:Some of these groups of people haven't even ever had the courtesy of being pandered to now and then. Jesus, let the show about Egypt have some light pro-Egyptian comic book moments. Yeah, and let the persian kid talk about why he's uncomfortable and suspicious about corporate endorsements of "these groups of people" (thanks for assuming that I wasn't one, thread). Or am I meant to just shut up and just be happy because they got the sobia right? You guys are the apparent authorities on how people from the middle east should feel about this stuff -- you tell me. Diversity does loving own. Exploitation sucks. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 11:39 on May 5, 2022 |
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May 5, 2022 11:35
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That's absolutely not what they [RandomReader] were complaining about in the words they wrote, though. EDIT: As a narrative moment in the show, it was a cute moment - the equivalent of that black kid asking to touch Obama's hair. As shoehorned into an overstuffed episde, it was a bit of a heavy handed "Yes, this counts. We get 10 diversity points" moment. OP called it "shallow" that the kid (or the audience) would care, though, and seemed to be arguing that it was dumb to do it all since they never needed to see examples of themselves growing up. Like, suggesting that the kid asked to confirm that Layla was the "right" kind of hero says so much more about the OP than about the scene or show. The Modern Leper fucked around with this message at 12:11 on May 5, 2022 |
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May 5, 2022 11:59
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I read an interview with the director that that line was essentially aimed at his young daughter, who was both sad that she'd never have glossy hair like a Disney princess and didn't feel like she'd ever have much in common with a superhero.
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May 5, 2022 12:12
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Rarity posted:The show's main director was Egyptian and he explicitly demanded to tell a story that supported Egyptian culture Yeah, he did an interview about how part of his agreement with Disney was that they'd let him do some legit, and accurate, representation of Egyptian culture. Every time the gods and avatars talk in that non-English language? They're legit speaking Coptic, the language of classical Egypt. The guy legit wanted to do an Egyptian story that's sensitive and supportive of Egyptian culture, and more power to him. Call it exploitative if you want. Almost nothing these days isn't exploitative, especially in the media. So I say it's worth celebrating wins however small when they happen. If you decide they don't matter because someone's making money off of it, you'll have precious little to celebrate, ever.
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May 5, 2022 12:21
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