|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the funniest thing about 1/6 remains the wind down, as the people who had accomplished the dream of any actual movement, breaking into the capital at a moment of political ambiguity, started just kind of wandering around aimlessly, expecting a victory screen to drop from the heavens. It was pretty great in that sense; credit to leftists they wouldn’t go in there without some kind of plan, but watching right wingers construct brut versions of things leftists have known for years, having the sudden realization that cops are not necessarily on their side, that they are in the same cage all the rest of the working class is, it’s pretty great.
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
selec posted:It was pretty great in that sense; credit to leftists they wouldn’t go in there without some kind of plan This is true; if there's one thing you guys do it's plan.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:35
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:This is true; if there's one thing you guys do it's plan. Tell me you’ve never seen anti-kettling in action without telling me! Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Commission_to_Investigate_the_FBI
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
PeterCat posted:So the only real difference between you and the 1/6 guys are the issues you feel are important. The only real difference between the 1/6 guys and the founders of this country were the issues they felt were important as well. This is kind-of the conflict in America, that it decries not just the causes but the means of stuff like January 6th or the Civil War, but it itself was a country founded on sedition and secession. (And if the Founding Father's causes were examined, they wouldn't be significantly more noble than Jefferson Davis or the Q Shaman, just ask the Indigenous Americans who were about to be turbo-colonized by an America no longer held back by any treaties Britain made with them). The "tree of liberty must be refreshed by the blood of patriots" line came from Thomas Jefferson about the Shays Rebellion whose motives weren't any more noble than the Tea Party's. That rebellion was put down where the American rebellion had not. What constitutes an acceptable rebellion then? This is the thing, that if America is a country that doesn't establish things through revolt, what is it then, because that was the apparatus of its creation. I don't believe in violence as the main means of revolt, but the idea it's not American is flatly ahistorical. The original Americans wouldn't have just protested out of Kavanaugh's house - they would've tarred and feathered him.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:37
|
|
|
Probably Magic posted:The only real difference between the 1/6 guys and the founders of this country were the issues they felt were important as well. This is kind-of the conflict in America, that it decries not just the causes but the means of stuff like January 6th or the Civil War, but it itself was a country founded on sedition and secession. (And if the Founding Father's causes were examined, they wouldn't be significantly more noble than Jefferson Davis or the Q Shaman, just ask the Indigenous Americans who were about to be turbo-colonized by an America no longer held back by any treaties Britain made with them). The "tree of liberty must be refreshed by the blood of patriots" line came from Thomas Jefferson about the Shays Rebellion whose motives weren't any more noble than the Tea Party's. That rebellion was put down where the American rebellion had not. What constitutes an acceptable rebellion then? They would’ve also emptied the house and taken away what they wanted, and either torched the house or literally just taken it apart beam by beam.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
Cranappleberry posted:Turns out companies that have a monopoly on infrastructure is not good. They were setting up municipal freenets as early as the 1980s.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:44
|
|
|
a.lo posted:They can’t stand seeing rainbow flags or trans flags but they don’t seem to mind the nazi flags "Oh no those evil Nazis are here to support the pedophiles no doubt...wait hang on looks like we're on the same side as the Nazis they're all right!"
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:46
|
|
|
yeah, the thing that makes 1/6 hilarious is that the people involved, down to the last man, were sure that once they busted in to the capital that was it, the world had to give them what they wanted, because that's how they dimly understand politics to work. the founding fathers, for all their faults, were not stupid enough to see physically controlling the capital as a magic endgame- it's an asset that you then find a way to leverage towards accomplishing your goals. but in the modern age, you had both conservatives and liberals looking at a self-proclaimed shaman standing at a podium without asking nicely and thinking 'my god, is this the end of democracy' with eager glee and abject despair, respectively.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
Looks like the editors at two Philly newspapers did a freaky Friday on their endorsement day. Or maybe they just pulled names out of hats. The oldest black newspaper in PA declined to endorse Malcolm Kenyatta and instead endorsed the guy who tackled a black jogger and held him at gunpoint. https://twitter.com/MrErnestOwens/status/1524004244977860608 quote:Among Democrats, Lt. Gov. John Fetterman, U.S. Rep. Conor Lamb and State Rep. Malcolm Kenyatta are the frontrunners. Meanwhile, the state's newspaper with the most left-wing editorial board, who endorsed Fetterman in 2016 and 2018, has endorsed Conor Lamb because... they think he can win a statewide race. Also, they endorsed Fetterman in 2018 and then he... won a statewide race. Lamb has not actually won a statewide race yet. https://twitter.com/HCTrudo/status/1523680582009450497 quote:Even though the Democrats are technically in control of the 50-50 Senate, Biden has been unable to get the necessary votes on either of the bills that form the pillars of his agenda — specifically, Build Back Better and voting rights. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 15:50 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:but in the modern age, you had both conservatives and liberals looking at a self-proclaimed shaman standing at a podium without asking nicely and thinking 'my god, is this the end of democracy' with eager glee and abject despair, respectively. I think most people assumed something was going to happen after that
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
-Blackadder- posted:This gets lost in the whole discussion and I feel like this can't be emphasized enough. I don't think the argument that nothing will fundamentally change (which obviously isn't even true anyway), because abortion was already legal in some states and de-facto illegal in others is going to matter to people in the slightest. People's perception/feelings tend to motivate them more than technical reality. Abortion is a big deal in the public consciousness, it's one of the issues that represents social progress and it's been legal for 50 years. You really can't underestimate the broad psychological impact of having something like that suddenly snatched away. It feels very much like being transported back to the dark ages. I seriously wonder how many of the people saying this isn't a big deal know literally any women at all. Comfortable, surburban women who've already had kids, lesbian couples, teenagers, every goddamn woman I know who hasn't drank the Catholic Kool-Aid sees this as a five-alarm fire and wants to know what to do. College kids are sharing how to sign up to vote by mail. And this is in deep blue Illinois where abortion rights are ostensibly 'safe.' Nobody feels safe. They all know this is the warning shot across the bow and deep, DEEP poo poo is coming if Republicans hold office again.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:51
|
|
|
Oracle posted:I seriously wonder how many of the people saying this isn't a big deal know literally any women at all. Comfortable, surburban women who've already had kids, lesbian couples, teenagers, every goddamn woman I know who hasn't drank the Catholic Kool-Aid sees this as a five-alarm fire and wants to know what to do. College kids are sharing how to sign up to vote by mail. And this is in deep blue Illinois where abortion rights are ostensibly 'safe.' Nobody feels safe. They all know this is the warning shot across the bow and deep, DEEP poo poo is coming if Republicans hold office again. Thank Cthulu the Democrats are sending their best and brightest to do something about the fire.  I got a call from a recruiter at a company that services Democratic Party Aligned nonprofits specifically, the day after the memo dropped. The Democrats are doing something, but it ain't in the service of protecting women.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1523926913806336000
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:I’m glad Pelosi clarified after farting out wanting a strong Republican Party in the past. I am unsure how much of the Republican Party ever was how she remembers them. George Bush, Sr. was known as 'Rubbers George' when he served in the U.S. House for his advocating for family planning, namely condom use. He was a NorthEast rock-ribbed Rockefeller Republican. Pre-Reagan, they absolutely did exist. The Great Realignment after Johnson and the Civil Rights movement changed that and Bush Sr. was probably the last gasp. You'll remember James Jeffords switching from Republican to indepdent in 2001 and cacuasing with Dems which flipped control of the Senate. There's still a few left here and there.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
Lib and let die posted:Thank Cthulu the Democrats are sending their best and brightest to do something about the fire. Hey now, be fair, the Stooges took a very strong stance against rising fascism at a time where it was quite risky to do so. I've given this some thought before (I'm not JUST a Godzilla superfan) and I maintain that the biggest commonality between the two groups is that you shouldn't hire them to install any plumbing
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
I'm happy that Jane's Addiction was able to get help.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
I'm happy that Jane's Revenge exists. Everyone should join
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:05
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Looks like the editors at two Philly newspapers did a freaky Friday on their endorsement day. Or maybe they just pulled names out of hats. According to the article, they interviewed the jogger, and he's also voting for Fetterman.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:06
|
|
|
Xombie posted:According to the article, they interviewed the jogger, and he's also voting for Fetterman. Yeah, that's not new, though. The jogger famously ended up going to prison for an actual crime later and was interviewed in 2019 where he said he would vote for Fetterman if he could.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
Xombie posted:According to the article, they interviewed the jogger, and he's also voting for Fetterman. It's one of the rare cases where I actually believe Fetterman that it wasn't race since he claimed he saw the guy from behind and couldn't see his skin and the news interviews of the guy that day he's wearing a full body outfit that includes covering his head for cold weather running. The story everyone involved in that day tells makes it plausible. Pulling a gun out and chasing someone down is still insane though.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:15
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah, that's not new, though. The jogger famously ended up going to prison for an actual crime later and was interviewed in 2019 where he said he would vote for Fetterman if he could. It's weird how you framed it as an expectation that it would cause the black paper to not endorse him, given this. I'm not surprised by this or that the "most left" institution veered centrist.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:It's weird how you framed it as an expectation that it would cause the black paper to not endorse him, given this. I'm not surprised by this or that the "most left institution" veered centrist. it's weird that you interpreted it that way.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:18
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Looks like the editors at two Philly newspapers did a freaky Friday on their endorsement day. Or maybe they just pulled names out of hats. I can't find any reference to Fetterman tackling the jogger, where is this detail coming from?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:19
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:It's weird how you frame it as an expectation that it would cause the black paper to not endorse him, given this The paper spends a third of their endorsement talking about that incident and how bad his judgement was. They also have historically been big fans of Malcom Kenyatta and promoted the idea of him running for Senate and being PA's first black Senator. It is kind of weird that the newspaper who urged a guy to run to be the first black Senator from PA would then choose not to endorse the guy they asked to run and a little ironic that the guy they picked over him had this incident and they had to spend 1/3 of the endorsement justifying why they were still endorsing him. Also weird when combined with the left-wing newspaper that endorsed Fetterman twice before suddenly endorsing Conor Lamb for the bizarre reason that he "can win a statewide" election, when Fetterman is the only one running in the primary who actually has won a statewide race. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:20
|
|
|
Heck Yes! Loam! posted:it's weird that you interpreted it that way. Not really. But with this added information in the post above, it's a lot more clear. Thanks LT. I think it likely that they weighed Kenyatta's probability of winning as too low even if they were glad he ran, so they did a "which of these two more likely candidate is the lesser evil", probably. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 16:24 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:21
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:I can't find any reference to Fetterman tackling the jogger, where is this detail coming from? That was me being loose with language. He apparently "pursued him" in his truck, "subdued" him, and held him at gun point until the police arrived. Subdued does not necessarily mean tackle, though.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:23
|
|
|
Oracle posted:George Bush, Sr. was known as 'Rubbers George' when he served in the U.S. House for his advocating for family planning, namely condom use. He was a NorthEast rock-ribbed Rockefeller Republican. Well not entirely true there's a video from the 90s of Pelosi and Gingrich saying hey we don't agree on much but we agree we need to stop climate change and regulate carbon emissions, he may have been lying then but he and the rest of the party wouldn't even say that today. She still sucks though and is an idiot for fantasizing about a long-gone past GOP that was still lovely anyway instead of dealing with reality as it is, but I guess that's what we get when with out-of-touch declining geriatrics clinging to power. Every single interview with her is so what the gently caress, she can't answer a single direct question and just rambles on with some half-remembered talking points and irrelevant stories about the time Jim Jeffords and Tip O'Neil flashed her a smile and said "nice legislating kid" or some poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
Gumball Gumption posted:It's one of the rare cases where I actually believe Fetterman that it wasn't race since he claimed he saw the guy from behind and couldn't see his skin and the news interviews of the guy that day he's wearing a full body outfit that includes covering his head for cold weather running. The story everyone involved in that day tells makes it plausible. Pulling a gun out and chasing someone down is still insane though. Especially if you are 6’8. Unless the jogger was a top end blackbelt in BJJ, there was no way Fetterman wouldn’t have overpowered him.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Oracle posted:George Bush, Sr. was known as 'Rubbers George' when he served in the U.S. House for his advocating for family planning, namely condom use. He was a NorthEast rock-ribbed Rockefeller Republican. a lot of stuff happened during those decades that changed the political landscape and led directly or indirectly to polarization we see today- the rise of the religious right, corporate and foreign lobbying began to scale up to a point never before imagined, ditto with astroturfing political "movements" and the death of the Fairness Doctrine to name a few.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Nix Panicus posted:I'm just not seeing the same energy the George Floyd protests brought yet and I'm having difficulty imagining another Cool Zone summer when the political party in charge of fixing the situation is already trying to throw a wet blanket on direct action. DEEP STATE PLOT posted:in fairness the decision is not 100% official yet Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Here's a thread from a Florida teen that is a plaintiff in the don't say gay suit Oracle posted:I seriously wonder how many of the people saying this isn't a big deal know literally any women at all. Comfortable, surburban women who've already had kids, lesbian couples, teenagers, every goddamn woman I know who hasn't drank the Catholic Kool-Aid sees this as a five-alarm fire and wants to know what to do. College kids are sharing how to sign up to vote by mail. And this is in deep blue Illinois where abortion rights are ostensibly 'safe.' Nobody feels safe. They all know this is the warning shot across the bow and deep, DEEP poo poo is coming if Republicans hold office again. https://twitter.com/LolOverruled/status/1523145616250966017 -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 16:55 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Harold Fjord posted:It's weird how you framed it as an expectation that it would cause the black paper to not endorse him, given this. I'm not surprised by this or that the "most left" institution veered centrist. Also I'm pretty sure that the jogger supports his candidacy, almost like the pearl-clutching from the same people who voted for Joe "I miss having lunch with my segregationist pals" Biden is super inconsistent or something. But all in good faith no doubt Fake edit: yep there it is The Braddock man John Fetterman confronted with a shotgun in 2013 says that should not stymie his Senate bid
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The paper spends a third of their endorsement talking about that incident and how bad his judgement was. They also have historically been big fans of Malcom Kenyatta and promoted the idea of him running for Senate and being PA's first black Senator. They only spent one paragraph mentioning the jogger. Where are you getting "a third"? quote:It is kind of weird that the newspaper who urged a guy to run to be the first black Senator from PA would then choose not to endorse the guy they asked to run and a little ironic that the guy they picked over him had this incident and they had to spend 1/3 of the endorsement justifying why they were still endorsing him. Kenyatta is barely holding onto 5% in polling, and even Lamb's second place is a far behind what Fetterman is polling at. It's not surprising at all that they don't bother endorsing him.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:41
|
|
|
Bob Casey's boy flips on abortion. That leaves only two pro-life Democrats holding national elected office: Senator Joe Manchin III and Representative Henry Cuellar. Bill is still dead, though. Both the "pro-choice" Republicans oppose it for being "too extreme" and Manchin likely to vote against. https://twitter.com/mikedebonis/status/1524050790842830848 https://twitter.com/alivitali/status/1524050864343814145
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Bob Casey's boy flips on abortion. Why does this matter at all if the filibuster is left in place? Horseshoes and hand grenades.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:46
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:Why does this matter at all if the filibuster is left in place? Horseshoes and hand grenades. It doesn't matter for this specific bill if the filibuster is still intact. But, this would also die even if the filibuster was abolished because the two "pro-choice" GOP Senators said they would vote against it because it is "too extreme" and "polarizing" and Manchin is likely to vote no. Just a big shift for Casey who has spent a long time describing himself as "pro-life," but also saying he wouldn't support banning all abortion. And the obvious context of: https://twitter.com/LACaldwellDC/status/1524050156454305793 Plus, through being completely destroyed in all of their rural swing seats and abortion becoming more firmly part of the party orthodoxy, the conversion of Casey means the Democrats only have 1 pro-life member in each chamber. Which makes the GOP more pro-choice than the Dems are pro-life for the first time in a very long time. Pretty big swing from 2009 where about 20% of the caucus was some variant of pro-life or not willing to call themselves pro-choice.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Oracle posted:I seriously wonder how many of the people saying this isn't a big deal know literally any women at all. Comfortable, surburban women who've already had kids, lesbian couples, teenagers, every goddamn woman I know who hasn't drank the Catholic Kool-Aid sees this as a five-alarm fire and wants to know what to do. College kids are sharing how to sign up to vote by mail. And this is in deep blue Illinois where abortion rights are ostensibly 'safe.' Nobody feels safe. They all know this is the warning shot across the bow and deep, DEEP poo poo is coming if Republicans hold office again. Many of us have been pointing out for three decades how the gasoline of Casey was leading to this five-alarm fire & making abortion virtually impossible to obtain in red states, only to see Democrats joining the right in banning "partial-birth" abortions, deciding that they had higher priorities than codifying bodily autonomy, and--to this very day!--continuing to campaign for anti-choice Dems. It's kind of jarring to see people getting verklempt now while Congress was playing their fiddle for the last 30 years. eta: Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Bob Casey's boy flips on abortion. "Only two," lolol forever.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:Many of us have been pointing out for three decades how the gasoline of Casey was leading to this five-alarm fire & making abortion virtually impossible to obtain in red states, only to see Democrats joining the right in banning "partial-birth" abortions, deciding that they had higher priorities than codifying bodily autonomy, and--to this very day!--continuing to campaign for anti-choice Dems. jarring in a good way? I'm not going to lie, I don't see the outrage in my community. I live in a conservative part of Colorado, and only my wife and direct family are even discussing it. it is kind of disheartening, and I doubt there will be a huge backlash at this point. What's funny is that many conservatives seem averse to discussing it as well, I am not seeing many victory laps being made. Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 16:56
|
|
|
Heck Yes! Loam! posted:jarring in a good way? Jarring in that all of a sudden people are shouting DO SOMETHING when some of us have been screaming about it for 30 years while watching it happen incrementally. And of course there won't be a huge backlash; we don't even know what the final ruling will be, and especially if it ends up as something Casey-ish like "no abortions after 15 weeks" people will go back to worrying about meeting their basic needs like food & housing, which a good chunk of voters are already prioritizing over choice.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:Many of us have been pointing out for three decades how the gasoline of Casey was leading to this five-alarm fire & making abortion virtually impossible to obtain in red states, only to see Democrats joining the right in banning "partial-birth" abortions, deciding that they had higher priorities than codifying bodily autonomy, and--to this very day!--continuing to campaign for anti-choice Dems. Most people don't pay attention except for a few weeks every four years. Nebulous future risks are just plain not on most people's radar; its part of the human condition and why climate change has been so hard to fight. I mean, what do you want, a cookie? Here, here's your cookie and your pat on the head. You and those screaming for decades were right, Willa. Bask in the glow of your victory. Now what are you going to do about it after you're done 'I told you so!'ing? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
Oracle posted:Most people don't pay attention except for a few weeks every four years. Nebulous future risks are just plain not on most people's radar; its part of the human condition and why climate change has been so hard to fight. We want you to reconsider the way you process News and Politics and ask why being wrong for years only yields contempt for people who were right. What will you do differently to be right sooner, when it might matter? Like the minimum ask is a little humility from people who’ve spent years telling us and themselves that the Dems give a gently caress about anything but their own sinecures.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2022 17:05
|
|