|
Artelier posted:Quistis trespassing on Squall's boundaries is established in like, the very first scene with her, in that little walk as you leave Dr Kadowaki's clinic. It's like. Text. Pretty much all of those exchanges are pretty gentle teasing and joking around, to be fair. I really don't think the takeaway you're supposed to get from them is that Quistis is doing a bad thing- they were humanizing her as a contrast to the very uptight, unapproachable Squall. And yeah, Quistis thought she had feelings for Squall, but that's not the same as actually breaking all sorts of protocols and abusing her power to try and sleep with him. I don't think anything actually said or done in the game rose to that level, outside of her making one frivolous order to meet her somewhere private to talk, which people are making some pretty big leaps to conclude "is obviously a makeout point, which obviously means she's trying to seduce him, and teachers shouldn't do that." ZenMasterBullshit posted:No it would not have because the classroom doesn't have all the connotations associated with the student secret area to sneak away and neck at night! THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT POST! That the location itself and her decision to have the convo there has inherent implications that you can't just completely ignore. In a narrative choices by characters have implications to their motivations and emotions and location often have meaning behind them, both to the story at large and the characters especially if you're only in a location by a character's direct decision. Setting matters to the meaning of a scene! Where there are groups of unchaperoned teenagers, some of them will be necking. It doesn't matter if it's in a park, or a restaurant, or someone's house- that doesn't mean all those places are "makeout point" and reserved just for hooking up. So no, I don't think the garden center was supposed to be viewed as inherently a sex spot as FFVIII was telling the story. Setting DOES matter, but in this case it was a pretty location to set up a dramatic mood for Quistis' big reveal that she was fired and it shook her self confidence, and them BAM! Squall's like "piss off!" And the audience is supposed to be shocked that he's lashing out at her. They're not supposed to go "yeah, right on Squall!" But sure, the story the game is trying to tell here is not that Squall is an emotionally-scarred mess that lashes out harder the more people try to make an emotional bridge with him, and attacked someone that needed a friend. That would fit in with the themes and entire central plot of the game too much. What these scenes were ACTUALLY trying to convey was how brave Squall heroically repelled the sexual harassment and abuse of authority of the villainous Quistis. Because that contributes to the themes and overall plot by ????? Unless people are agreeing that the story is TRYING to tell the story of a hosed-up Squall rather than an abusive Quistis, but the writers dropped the ball. That I can more agree with, because while I at least understand what they're trying to set up and do with different scenes, I think the actual execution of VIII's story is terrible.
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 17:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 03:59 |
|
|
Schwartzcough posted:
Yes that's why there's the implication where she asks him to take him to such a location to have her big emotional confession. If it's obvious to you it's probably obvious to the character making such a decision. And that colors her reasoning and gives you some understanding of it and the emotional state behind it. That's the point, You goober. She's got feelings for him she makes him go to make out point with her so she can try and have a big emotional moment and get him to open up to her. That's the scene. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 18:15 on May 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
I forgot what the argument was Squall is supposed to come off as mean and abrasive and Quistis is supposed to come off as a little pathetic if only these characters beyond Squall and Rinoa mattered after everyone (except Squall) bungled the assassination, then maybe we'd have other events and plot points to point to for characterization
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 18:13
|
|
|
Electromax posted:Who knows if Cid ever questions whether they could be hiring elite grown mercenaries from around the world instead of training this specific kid and have the same outcome, but that gets too close to "why is the RPG party always defeating the boss instead of the much more experienced army of the kingdom they protect" etc. Maybe in FF8R Squall will also whisper the Galbadia Super Bowl champions of the future to explain where Edea gets enough funds to build the gardens. Schwartzcough posted:Unless people are agreeing that the story is TRYING to tell the story of a hosed-up Squall rather than an abusive Quistis, but the writers dropped the ball. That I can more agree with, because while I at least understand what they're trying to set up and do with different scenes, I think the actual execution of VIII's story is terrible. It's just more fun to discuss about how what Quistis does is literally in HR handbooks as something warranting a written warning about inappropriate behavior than focus on Mr. Whatever.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 18:49
|
|
|
Where does Trabia Garden get its recruits from?
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 18:54
|
|
|
You know how sometimes you play a JRPG and put it down for a couple of months and come back to it and don't remember what's going on in the story? FF8 is the perfect JRPG because nothing that happens in the story matters, so you don't need to remember it anyway. Hey remember that fat slug in the basement of the Garden who was actually the real headmaster or whatever? You don't? Well it doesn't matter! Hey remember how the flashbacks established that Laguna is Squall's father? You don't? Well it doesn't matter!
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 19:47
|
|
|
grieving for Gandalf posted:I forgot what the argument was I think zell talks about hot dogs again at some point after that, and that's kinda his character as far as I remember? 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
I havent played 8 since it came out, just HOW much of it's plot is hotdog based
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
Elvis_Maximus posted:I think zell talks about hot dogs again at some point after that, and that's kinda his character as far as I remember? He loves his mom, is excitable, thin-skinned, and likes machines and history.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:08
|
|
|
For what it's worth I actually really wish FFVIII was a little more coherent, because I'm a huge sucker for romance stories in general and I love the idea of a big full-fledged RPG with that as the central premise. Part of the reason I like FFX so much honestly Madmarker posted:He loves his mom, is excitable, thin-skinned, and likes machines and history. I can honestly say I don't remember the last two, but I do recall him loving his Mom which is an admirable trait  Zell is definitely good
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:10
|
|
|
Madmarker posted:He loves his mom, is excitable, thin-skinned, and likes machines and history. Zell actually has like seven different character traits in a game where everyone else has at most two
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:11
|
|
|
Madmarker posted:He loves his mom, is excitable, thin-skinned, and likes machines and history.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:11
|
|
|
Elvis_Maximus posted:For what it's worth I actually really wish FFVIII was a little more coherent, because I'm a huge sucker for romance stories in general and I love the idea of a big full-fledged RPG with that as the central premise. In the train Zell is the one who knows about the history of Timber and mentions liking stuff like that. Also, whenever you have to interact with machines if Zell is in your party he asks you let him handle it. But yeah, Zell is actually pretty wholesome.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:12
|
|
|
Artelier posted:I've convinced people to play FFVIII by explaining to them about how Squall will not let anyone talk about him in the past tense!! kill screen (remember them, lol)'s article about FF8 was one of the things that got me to try the game way back when quote:There’s the part where he rescues love interest Rinoa from the void of space. In a long, dreamy sequence, her space suit rises from the bottom of the screen and tumbles toward the camera, framed against a curtain of stars that looks like a graveyard for every ellipsis wasted in the game’s dialogue. When Squall jumps out to catch her, the game makes its own creative leap, switching to first-person controls for the first and only time. It’s an unabashedly sentimental, enormous moment, backed by lavishly produced music and cinematics, the work of a studio at the height of its powers. And at the end of this triumphant episode, Squall and Rinoa find themselves safe in another ship, and she asks him to hug her: “I need to know that I’m alive!” And he flat-out refuses. He will not budge on the hug issue. It is, somehow, the most unbelievable thing in their entire space adventure.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:29
|
|
|
quote:That guy turned out to be more traumatized than tough, and as likely to freeze up as to make the right call This also applies to Cloud though! Also Zidane groped Garnet so he sucks.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
He should've kept her in a coma locked in a basement
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
This is the perfect description of FF8 https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/1030503682637357056 Edit: also https://twitter.com/christinelove/status/1097702588957581313
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:47
|
|
|
I don't remember any of that from FF8, I guess I am going to have to replay it again.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:50
|
|
|
grieving for Gandalf posted:if only these characters beyond Squall and Rinoa mattered after everyone (except Squall) bungled the assassination, then maybe we'd have other events and plot points to point to for characterization It is a tragedy. Irvine literally never changed from the guy who abandoned you all to torture and death in prison. But we're just cool now because...uh, Orphan Buddies. Help Im Alive posted:hopefully FF8R will show us Cid's investor pitch to NORG back when he was seeking funding for the garden Cid: One of the orphans me and my wife raised came back to us as a brooding, leather-clad, gunblade-toting teenager from the future who will kill an evil sorceress and save all of space-time. This is why I need funding for a school dedicated to killing evil sorceresses, to ensure he grows up to be a brooding, leather-clad, gun-wielding soldier. NORG: Bushurururu.. WHAT-IF-WE-MAKE-ALL-THE-CHILDREN-FIGHT-AND-KILL-WHATEVER-NOT-JUST-SORCERESSSES? IT-WILL-MAKE-BACK-MONEY-MUCH-MORE-EFFICIENTLY. Cid: Fair enough. Feels Villeneuve posted:kill screen (remember them, lol)'s article about FF8 was one of the things that got me to try the game way back when quote:That guy turned out to be more traumatized than tough, and as likely to freeze up as to make the right call—at one point, his comrades have to berate him into saving his own girlfriend. He was designed to be less than cool, which is not a concept that survives many conference rooms in this industry. It didn’t survive in the Final Fantasy series itself: one game later, our hero was a brave little monkey-man introduced with a platitude (“You don’t need a reason to help people.”) How could that guy not save the world? 1. Squall and Rinoa weren't a couple at the mentioned scene, which is the Garden battle. Moreover, as everyone berates him, Squall himself points out that he's the leader and is responsible for all the people currently in danger so he can't just run off to save one of them. Now, he delegates the task of saving her to Zell so bad choice there, but he was perfectly rational up until that point. 2. As for Zidane, he's a selfish, womanizing little prick. That line for his intro doesn't really fit. Funnily enough, he follows Squall exactly in having a total breakdown over the girl he loves at the start of Disk 3. He's just a dingus sitting around moping at the bar because he can't confess his feelings to the one girl he truly loves. Now I do find it interesting how we go from the scowling Cloud and Squall to the grinning Zidane and Tidus. Looking at the portraits of the first two next to the other two is fun because of how radical the shift is. But they're all awkward dorks and not anything resembling tough badasses, they're just dorky in their own way. Zidane hides his trauma the best, Tidus and Squall the worst but they respond to it in very different ways, Squall being super introverted, Tidus super extroverted. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 20:56 on May 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:51
|
|
|
Zil posted:I don't remember any of that from FF8, I guess I am going to have to replay it again. That's GFs for you
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 20:51
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:As for Zidane, he's a selfish, womanizing little prick. That line for his intro doesn't really fit. Eh, while he's definitely a womanizer he does seem to have a good heart other than that, he's pretty eager to help Vivi for most of his journey even though he doesn't have much of a reason to. He also catches a frog for Quina for no real reason (well okay, I think one of the moogles in the swamp does say something like the Qu might know about some paths that other people don't, so you could reason that he's doing it to see if Quina knows about them). It's just that his motivation for helping Garnet and Freya really does seem to just be "They're girls I want to bang." quote:Zidane hides his trauma the best Well, until disc 4, anyway, when he has a complete breakdown over finding out his past.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:. Come to think of it are any of the main FF protagonists not awkward dorks? Firion doesn't really have enough characterization to judge, but he does get awkwardly seduced by an impostor princess snake lady Cecil is a mopey jerk before becoming a paladin, then a totally uncharismatic lawful stupid for the rest of the game Bartz seems proud of being a dork which is why he's the best Celes is kind of an easily flustered spaz Terra is closer to tough badass than awkward dork but I don't feel like either describes her arc very well and I think thats why she seems so unique as a main character I cant speak for 12 13 or 15 but I'm assuming those dudes and gals are dorky as poo poo too
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
As far as 12 goes, Vaan is definitely an awkward dork, but Basch certainly isn't, he's more the no-nonsense battle hardened veteran type. Balthier does come off as "super cool suave badass" but it's mostly an act he's putting on because he wants to distance himself from his father and his past as a judge, he still doesn't really qualify as awkward dork though.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
Zidane is putting on the overconfident woman charmer act as a cover. He's an orphan who doesn't understand where or why he exists, but still put's everything on the line to help out people he's barely met, including going against his own father figure. This culminates in the "You're not alone" scene where all the friends he's helped return the favor. Dude is selfless to a fault, it's not even subtext
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
Ashe is in no way a dork and she's the real main character. I am of the opinion FFXIII's story is an ensemble piece with no real central character. Noctis in FFXV is a dork but that's why we love the Chocobros, they're all dorks. He's not really hiding any trauma, though.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
No Dignity posted:That's GFs for you
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:20
|
|
|
zedprime posted:IIRC the final characterization Quistis gets (might be something around Ragnarok? I think that's the last stop for most character building) is saying something about how she must have mixed up her sisterly feelings for Squall with romantic feelings so even Quistis knows she hosed up.  It happened even earlier than that; It was during the orphanage reveal that Irvine did in Trabia Garden. Quistis does say to the others that she must've confused her sisterly feelings for affection. But if you talk to her again, the textbox shows her thoughts and she goes, "That was just something I came up with. In truth, I only gave up on Squall when Rinoa entered the picture."Artelier posted:Garden as a whole is completely hosed up and makes no sense, but on the other hand, using motorcycles to do a cool futuristic pirate ship-style boarding of one flying building to another is cool af That was Galbadia Garden that had the cool motorcycles and jetpacks, though. Balamb Garden just had those mind demons that gave you superpowers in exchange for amnesia. Vichan posted:Where does Trabia Garden get its recruits from? They hire from the sports teams in local high schools. Why do you think the NPCs mention Trabia Garden had multiple basketball teams?  It also reminds me that you can talk to one of the students in Trabia Garden and they're asking for donations after their school got nuked. Even if you say yes, she gives your money back to you, because the school is supposed to handle its own problems.  Elvis_Maximus posted:I think zell talks about hot dogs again at some point after that, and that's kinda his character as far as I remember? Don't forget how Zell stands up for a poor Moomba being kicked by prison guards, even when it gets him a beating. He also keeps his room neat and tidy which you wouldn't expect from his personality. He also has some old guns on display above his desk drawer, which were a memento of his dead grandfather who fought in a war. Zell's good.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Zidane's not really that concerned about his past by the time FF9 actually starts, as he already did a journey to find his real home before realizing it was Tantalus the entire time. He tells that story to Dagger so that she might better understand what Vivi is going through at that point. Of course, that all changes when Zidane finds out he's actually an alien created to wreak havoc on the planet he's lived on his entire life, and understandably a revelation like that would shake a lot of otherwise-upbeat people. And yeah, Zidane is a womanizing piece of poo poo until Eiko gives him a taste of his own medicine and he realizes how obnoxious his behavior actually is, and around the same time he starts developing actual feelings for Dagger, so he drops that poo poo near the end of Disc 2 (mostly, he's still very much interested in women but is less of a scumbag about it). The scoundrel with a heart of gold is pure Zidane the entire game. And Cecil is definitely a dork. Hell, he sired what may be the biggest dork in the entire series.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:40
|
|
|
amigolupus posted:That was Galbadia Garden that had the cool motorcycles and jetpacks, though. Balamb Garden just had those mind demons that gave you superpowers in exchange for amnesia. And dinosaurs! You're all talking me into wanting a Zell spin-off game now. It's a minor miracle he's as developed as he is.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:42
|
|
|
Oh and it probably goes without saying but every main character of 11 and 14 is an enormous dork and there's thousands of them
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:43
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:And dinosaurs! The bouncer should have been a Zell spin off
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:47
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Ashe is in no way a dork and she's the real main character.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:53
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:And dinosaurs! I think there are lots of little touches that tells lots about each of the characters (except Irvine), but like with everything else regarding FFVIII's story it is easy to miss, both in that it is generally a single scene or line that adds a lot to a characters actions, and is generally optional content. However Zell is easily the most fully formed character outside of Squall in the game. We know his likes and dislikes, his insecurities, his personality, his relationships, how he is looked at by others across a broad spectrum throughout the Garden, his talents and his flaws....honestly the Chicken-wuss is a really well fleshed out secondary character.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
Squall should have romanced Zell instead of Rinoa.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:56
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:Squall should have romanced Zell instead of Rinoa. I'm no Rinoa hater, but yeah, it probably would have been a better story.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:57
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Ashe is in no way a dork and she's the real main character. Good news about FF13, they are all dorks.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 21:58
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:Squall should have romanced Zell instead of Rinoa. 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 22:03
|
|
|
zedprime posted:I remember Ashe does a lot of in-universe-equivalent "well actually"s. The only thing I recall of that nature was the constant "insurgence" 'ahem resistance" thing. Which is fair and also just kind of a running gag. Other than that, Ashe is a good person put in a very tough spot where she doesn't know what to do. Do you compromise for the sake of your people? Do you keep fighting for the aske of your homeland? I can't begin to guess what decision I'd make in her place. But she is pretty badas for enduring what she does and rising to the occasion like she does considering she was just some fairy tale princess a few short years ago.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 22:05
|
|
|
I like Ashe because she actually paused and thought about it when given the power to nuke everyone to hell and back.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 03:59 |
|
|
Terra is very much an awkward dork, she's just much farther on the *awkward* side of things and wears her inner turmoil on the outside
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2022 23:00
|
|