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A.o.D. posted:It was a retreating army, not a surrendering army. We stopped because we were worried about the optics, not because it was an illegal target. That convoy consisted of many stolen vehicles laden with goods looted from Kuwait. It was a good move that permamently wrecked the Republican Guard and Saddam's realistic aspirations to have another go in a few years. e: the slightly dodgy one was the Battle of Rumaila that took place two days after the ceasefire when 24th Infantry decided to delete an armoured division. But on the other hand, gently caress the Republican Guard. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 18:34
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catfry posted:That map insert is placed completely wrong. This river is all the way in the East of the country. I wouldn't panic too much about that: https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1524783663908634624?s=20&t=zw15qK1SNEbCtLvmz_SgPg https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1524527182097301504?s=20&t=EYLU7cGsOnw8qhL_xsdxaA
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May 12, 2022 18:42
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If the Ukrainians end up having to fall back out of that salient under fire it's gonna be fuckin Debaltsevo/Ilovaisk all over again
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May 12, 2022 18:43
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https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/qBa81 Hell of a way did an interview with a drone guy about what's being used in theater
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May 12, 2022 19:22
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mlmp08 posted:It's not great to lose about 1% of your forces in one attempted river crossing. Yeah, that's it alright. Miles of goddamn wreckage and cooked bodies. It's impossible to describe what it felt like to pass through it.
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May 12, 2022 20:01
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HoD has at least the trappings of a righteous target. Considering America's actions in war, that's pretty legit of us.
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May 12, 2022 20:11
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bulletsponge13 posted:HoD has at least the trappings of a righteous target. Considering America's actions in war, that's pretty legit of us. Eh, it was a bunch of retreating, defeated military people. It was a pretty disturbing attack. Its one thing to destroy a column advancing on you, its another to basically kettle and slaughter retreating and non-combative military members.
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May 12, 2022 20:22
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CommieGIR posted:Eh, it was a bunch of retreating, defeated military people. It was a pretty disturbing attack. Its one thing to destroy a column advancing on you, its another to basically kettle and slaughter retreating and non-combative military members. Not really, it was a coherent enemy formation attempting to escape envelopment. The first bombs are dropped on Highway 80 on the same day that the Battle of 73 Easting is taking place. The Iraqi army is halfway through complete disintegration, but halfway is not all of the way and it is still trying to fight.
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May 12, 2022 20:30
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Alchenar posted:Not really, it was a coherent enemy formation attempting to escape envelopment. The first bombs are dropped on Highway 80 on the same day that the Battle of 73 Easting is taking place. The Iraqi army is halfway through complete disintegration, but halfway is not all of the way and it is still trying to fight. There were better ways, they had already cutoff the head and tail of the column. They were heading towards Basra, not to redeploy inside Kuwait. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 12, 2022 |
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May 12, 2022 20:37
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Retreating. Armies. Are. Legitimate. Targets.
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May 12, 2022 20:48
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CommieGIR posted:There were better ways, they had already cutoff the head and tail of the column. They were heading towards Basra, not to redeploy inside Kuwait. The main fight was happening in Iraq, not Kuwait.
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May 12, 2022 20:54
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The only legitimate combat is by dueling rules
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May 12, 2022 21:05
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A.o.D. posted:Retreating. Armies. Are. Legitimate. Targets. This. Might be icky, but true.
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May 12, 2022 21:16
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Retreating and surrendering are not the same. They're not out of the fight until they're out of the fight. Yes, this is ugly: it's war.
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May 12, 2022 21:19
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Are there any good writeups on the logistics situation during the Gulf War? Given the current nightmare the Russians are facing, along with France and the UK running out of bombs in Libya (and the UK being assigned Basra in 2003 because their armor units literally couldn't drive any further), I'm wondering how the US managed it.
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May 12, 2022 21:26
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Gigantic cold war stockpiles and months of build up, is the short version.
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May 12, 2022 21:28
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NightGyr posted:Gigantic cold war stockpiles and months of build up, is the short version. Months of build up with no need to obfuscate, floating depots of equipment and supplies designed to enable a rapid return to the European theater. Enormous stockpiles in Europe that could quickly be airlifted to Saudi Arabia. This is the slightly less abridged version. The US had spent the time from 1948 to 1989 preparing to fight a massive land war in Europe against the Soviet Union with the assumption that we'd be starting on the back foot, to include a possible contested landing in France. Compared to that, a deployment to the Middle East in a permissive logistics space was relatively simple.
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May 12, 2022 21:33
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Yeah, that's it alright. Miles of goddamn wreckage and cooked bodies. It's impossible to describe what it felt like to pass through it. "This is Hell. I'm seeing Hell."
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May 12, 2022 21:43
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psydude posted:Are there any good writeups on the logistics situation during the Gulf War? Given the current nightmare the Russians are facing, along with France and the UK running out of bombs in Libya (and the UK being assigned Basra in 2003 because their armor units literally couldn't drive any further), I'm wondering how the US managed it. The US is more or less always conducting training/operations all over the planet, maintaining large logistics networks and moving equipment around is something the US is always doing. I only have the perspective of being a logistics planner at the battalion and brigade levels but I'd imagine the most difficult part of our logistics will be resupplying frontline units. We'll have plenty of ammunition, fuel, parts, food, and water. It's just going to be an issue of whether or not we can get it the last few miles to where it's needed most.
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May 12, 2022 21:50
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CommieGIR posted:There were better ways, they had already cutoff the head and tail of the column. They were heading towards Basra, not to redeploy inside Kuwait. if you call time out in war, its illegal for the other side to shoot you
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May 12, 2022 22:20
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But what if you catch the
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May 12, 2022 22:22
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PookBear posted:if you call time out in war, its illegal for the other side to shoot you Yeah, you know that's not what I meant, but by all means.
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May 12, 2022 22:28
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NightGyr posted:Gigantic cold war stockpiles and months of build up, is the short version. This. In addition, government use of a significant part of the civilian cargo and passenger jet fleet, swallowing up any available maritime cargo space for six months, having Cold War-level forces and supplies available in Germany to pull from, and, which I feel almost always gets overlooked, the eager and willing support of the majority of world governments, including many partners in the region. Our Desert Storm coalition made the GWOT one look pathetic.
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May 12, 2022 22:50
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The US basically shows up with logistics at level 10 where everyone is like level 2. It’s a hax.
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May 12, 2022 23:02
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Still leaves room for error, like civilian officials disregarding estimates given by the military if they don't come up with the right numbers. The insane amount of money the US military can throw at problems is also a resource other militaries don't have access to.
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May 12, 2022 23:20
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Soylent Pudding posted:I'd gotten the impression that Ukraine has committed most of it's standing forces but that the reservists mobilized in the first few days have been training and standing up fresh units in the western regions. IIRC they have universal conscription, and every single one of their conscripts for the past eight years have been rotated through the Donbass front, so their reservists are largely made up of troops who have seen at least some form of combat.
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May 13, 2022 00:07
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CommieGIR posted:I wouldn't panic too much about that: https://twitter.com/iAmTheWarax/status/1524823525311365126?s=20&t=olqWsx5d2Iog6qV4l5YgXg lmao
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May 13, 2022 00:16
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CommieGIR posted:I wouldn't panic too much about that: 
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May 13, 2022 00:21
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That meme is getting a serious workout
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May 13, 2022 00:27
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I'm guessing engineer recce isn't a thing 
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May 13, 2022 00:31
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm guessing engineer recce isn't a thing Apparently it is for the UAF! https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524506110887088128 (copied from the Cold War thread, didn't see it in the past few pages over here)
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May 13, 2022 01:15
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, you know that's not what I meant, but by all means. then what are you trying to say
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May 13, 2022 01:22
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm guessing engineer recce isn't a thing I don't know if the US Army still has engineer recon units but they're mentioned in my reconnaissance manuals. Cav squadrons can and do do route reconnaissance but ideally you'd have actual engineers doing it.
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May 13, 2022 01:34
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Mustang posted:I don't know if the US Army still has engineer recon units but they're mentioned in my reconnaissance manuals. Cav squadrons can and do do route reconnaissance but ideally you'd have actual engineers doing it. The manual was updated in 2016, so it's a safe bet that Engineering recon is a current capability. https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ATP%203-34x81%20C1%20INCL%20FINAL%20WEB.pdf
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May 13, 2022 01:49
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A.o.D. posted:Months of build up with no need to obfuscate, floating depots of equipment and supplies designed to enable a rapid return to the European theater. Enormous stockpiles in Europe that could quickly be airlifted to Saudi Arabia. This is the slightly less abridged version. Taking a look at the US OOBs for the GW is like reading an alt history Cold War gone hot novel that’s wearing a lovely coat of desert tan paint. A reinforced armored corps (VII,) a reinforced airborne corps (XVIII,) and a USMC Expeditionary force (I MEF) that was another corps in all but name by itself. It’s a scale of operations that hadn’t been seen since 1945, and hopefully won’t be seen again. Six aircraft carrier battlegroups. Ten wings of tactical jets. Untold hundreds of tankers and EW and AEW assets. And that’s before you consider even a single other member of the coalition. I think the UK deployed more MBTs to Saudi’s Arabia in 1991 than it presently has in its entire inventory. If Saddam had invaded Kuwait even a single year later, it would have been nigh-impossible to amass forces like that. The post cold-war drawdowns hit hard and fast.
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May 13, 2022 02:07
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I bet it would loving blow Russia's mind to learn how functional and efficient our APO/AFO system works. For people never in, you can mail a flat rate USPS box to South Korea for domestic prices, and reasonable shipment times. Now, if we've figured out how to ship baked goods/tobacco/porn from home that efficiently, how difficult of a time do you think we have shipping beans and bullets through our "normal" logistics network?
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May 13, 2022 02:40
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Logistics is simple if you can afford to set up your own dedicated pipeline, including building ports and airstrips if you need to. It’s a lot harder when you don’t have the dedicated infrastructure.
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May 13, 2022 02:42
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The longest I ever waited for a postal package in Iraq was 7 weeks, which isn’t awful all things considered. It wasn’t lost, just the planes were full of critical parts and ammo.
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May 13, 2022 03:07
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On a different note: what does the prognosis look like for repair and recovery on disabled tanks? To my completely uninformed civilian eye I'd surmise that something like a popped turret represents catastrophic internal damage from the ammunition going off and the chassis is basically a husk that you might be able to strip some external parts off (RIP crew), but what about the varying degrees of damage in between? What other kinds of hits will normally render a tank in need of recovery? How resilient are the internal components, and how easy is it to replace them if they do get damaged? If we're looking at something like that BTG that got wiped on the river crossing, how can you tell between tanks that are straight dead, simple repair jobs, or factory refurbishments / could be repaired but maybe not worth sending a recovery vehicle into unsecured terrain? I'm starting from no knowledge whatsoever, so even the most basic explanations will be helpful.
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May 13, 2022 03:12
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MrYenko posted:Taking a look at the US OOBs for the GW is like reading an alt history Cold War gone hot novel that’s wearing a lovely coat of desert tan paint. = Or in VII Corps' case, woodland camo with mud smeared over it.
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May 13, 2022 03:15
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