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Lemming posted:My friend, the right already accuses Nancy Pelosi of eating human baby brains live on TV. If you want to convince a group of people that Democrats are being lovely, then priming them to disagree with you by holding up a picture of an evil fucker, then pointing at it and saying "see look, she also thinks the Democrats are being hosed up hypocrites. If you think rationally about the issue, then you'll come to the actually correct conclusion that in this case, she's right, and you'll have to feel weird about acknowledging that. Instead, you can have an emotional knee jerk reaction, and disagree!" Well this is a discussion forum, yes I expected that we'd be able to discuss what the alt-right's propaganda is going to be and what strategies they will use and how Democrats could better fight that without a bunch of kneejerk accusations that by bringing it up I'm defending the shittiest people in congress, because of how often I'm informed here that explaining something isn't endorsing it. You have convinced me that my expectations were wrong, sorry to have brought it up at all.
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May 14, 2022 02:10
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VitalSigns posted:Well this is a discussion forum, yes I expected that we'd be able to discuss what the alt-right's propaganda is going to be and what strategies they will use and how Democrats could better fight that without a bunch of kneejerk accusations that bringing it up is defending the shittiest people in congress, because of how often I'm informed here that explaining something isn't endorsing it. LOL are you seriously going to mope out of this because people didn't agree with your obvious bait?
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May 14, 2022 02:10
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CommieGIR posted:Its not strawmanning, you guys are presenting MTG as some sort of source of truth rather than a lovely broken clock angry that their chosen geopolitical ally is being attacked by the very same MIC they would use against others were they in power. Her mentioning emissions is nothing more than projection. Bolding this bc the whole broken-clock trope is about a clock that's "truthful" twice a day. But even aside from that, you're ignoring how facile & effective the MTG tweet is, bc it resonates with those who point out how AOC scolds about Florida bc of covid then vacations in Miami, or how "the libs" levied & supported laws that they themselves refused to follow, or how Dems want tax-deduction restoration for richie homeowners, etc. etc. You can  about the truth as much as you want, but the counterargument is the effectiveness of this sort of signaling, from the I DID THIS stickers of Biden at gas pumps to Let's Go Brandon becoming shorthand for not only gently caress Joe Biden but the ability of news media to distort reality through obfuscation.When was the last time Dems came up with an effective trope or tweet? Instead, we've got Pres. Pop Pop talking about The Great Maga King as if it's some sort of superslam rather than a trope that wasn't immediately coopted by its target into one of strength rather than weakness.
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May 14, 2022 02:30
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Willa Rogers posted:Bolding this bc the whole broken-clock trope is about a clock that's "truthful" twice a day. How useful is a clock that's only accurate twice a day? None of this has anything to do with Biden or gas prices, why should I give a poo poo about what MTG thinks about anything, for any reason, if I'm already convinced that anything AOC says is automatically worthless? Dems haven't had an effective slogan or anything since I've been alive, they're like a UK Labour lite in that regard, but so what? Biden campaigned on killing all this poo poo that has died and telling young people to eat poo poo which they've been lined up to do. All these pieces are in place, who gives a poo poo what arrangement the 7 spoon and 6 forks are around the plate of poo poo? Anybody whose primary goal is the advancement of socialism needs to just stop talking about or worrying about or thinking about this national level professional wrestling poo poo entirely lest they become marks who just embarrass themselves for a living, only in this case they're doing it for free
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May 14, 2022 02:36
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VitalSigns posted:Well my point was that the right is seizing on it, which is bad and I think important, aside from the fact that the underlying criticism is also important on its own. I mean, it's a politics thread, the attacks that Republicans are making are going to come up, it's hard to discuss what the right's strategy is without mentioning it. Does it really matter what they seize on at this point? If they don't find some random one they will invent or just imagine it, and it will be some variation of the same insanity we've had for years.
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May 14, 2022 02:38
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Epic High Five posted:How useful is a clock that's only accurate twice a day? None of this has anything to do with Biden or gas prices, why should I give a poo poo about what MTG thinks about anything, for any reason, if I'm already convinced that anything AOC says is automatically worthless? I mean, if anyone's serious about not letting the fascists take power again I'd think it'd be worth pondering why their enemies are so good at propagating these tropes, and the power they might hold, like the effectiveness of I DID THIS stickers at the pumps. But sure, let's all ignore it, and dismiss it, and write it off as chuds being chuds, and see where that ends up electorally. Just like Trump disappearing from public life once he was banned from Twitter.  eta: I guess I take issue with the "ignore it & it'll go away" school of political thought, which strikes me as a toddler covering his eyes & then determining the world has disappeared.
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May 14, 2022 02:40
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Willa Rogers posted:I mean, if anyone's serious about not letting the fascists take power again I'd think it'd be worth pondering why their enemies are so good at propagating these tropes, and the power they might hold, like the effectiveness of I DID THIS stickers at the pumps. What does MTG's statements or AOC at all have to do with any of this though? Fascism is going to win because it's the preferred outcome of both possible options under FPTP, one wing being reluctant and the other enthusiastic. How is whatever is to be done served or informed by splitting infinite hairs among powerless reps and freaks and weirdos? How is that more effective than me, personally, just myself, sitting in a bathtub as I consume more and more THC edibles? All of this hinges on these idiots and morons being power brokers when in fact your average house rep has as much cache as I do, living in a red state long abandoned by the shitheap of morons that is the Democratic Party?
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May 14, 2022 02:45
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Willa Rogers posted:I mean, if anyone's serious about not letting the fascists take power again I'd think it'd be worth pondering why their enemies are so good at propagating these tropes, and the power they might hold, like the effectiveness of I DID THIS stickers at the pumps. What was remarkably effective about those stickers? They are literally the exact same ones used with Bush in 2004. Do you just mean that if something is ubiquitous, then it is effective? I'm not following what the tangible goal they achieved was. People have been getting mad at the President for high gas prices with and without the aid of stickers for the last 75 years.
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May 14, 2022 02:48
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https://twitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1525140786672766976?s=20&t=ddgzSn6tr-LcrSc3bFiMMA https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/13/white-house-vaccines-covid-funding-impasse-00032319 https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/politics/biden-urge-cities-use-unspent-covid-relief-funds-crime-prevention/2889581/ This is.. dire. COVID relief shouldn't be used for police at all outside of giving them vaccines and PPE. It should not be used to fight crime.
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May 14, 2022 02:51
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Epic High Five posted:I challenged someone before to provide evidence that the left isn't the most docile dissenting bloc in US politics that falls in line more than any other to crickets, so now I challenge you. Prove it. I maintain that the left's idiotic loyalty is exactly the reason why the only thing they're served at the kiddie table is plates of poo poo. The main reason the Republicans can take out Roe v Wade is because they destroyed the Supreme Court filibuster. They did it with 52 votes. You know what is exactly as powerful? 50 votes and the VP, which is what the Democrats have right now. The bar for Democratic success is "You need to give them like 60, 70 Senators or otherwise they just lie in apathy.". They are a poo poo party, and their answer is always "Give us more power", when they had all the power it was possible to give like a decade ago and they did loving NOTHING WITH IT.
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May 14, 2022 02:52
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Mulva posted:The main reason the Republicans can take out Roe v Wade is because they destroyed the Supreme Court filibuster. They did it with 52 votes. You know what is exactly as powerful? 50 votes and the VP, which is what the Democrats have right now. The Republicans didn't take out Roe with 52 votes, they did it via a means that didn't require any votes at all. The House of Lords of our House of Lords. 50 votes+VP is only more powerful than that if they fundamentally disagree, which they do not. The rest is just fundraising and marketing. Do you really believe that they will deliver on these things if only there are 60 Dem Senators? Almost certainly you do not. Do you believe that if you're living in a state with a Dem trifecta that they will enact this? That's a lot more likely. I live in a blood red state so it's no real succor to me, and it's absolutely the sort of thinking that is the basis of balkanization and the kindling of a war that the dipshit moronic center will lose, but it's absolutely something that can inform votes.
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May 14, 2022 02:56
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1525140786672766976?s=20&t=ddgzSn6tr-LcrSc3bFiMMA It's not really Covid prevention money. That was a separate appropriation. They are referring to the $350 billion given to state and local governments to prevent layoffs of public employees and bolster tax revenue in the covid stimulus bill. Because FY21 tax revenues were much higher than expected in most states, many state and municipal governments never ended up using all of their money. It's just part of the general treasury revenues for 600+ state, local, and tribal governments and earmarked for paying public employee costs. The feds can't take it back or re-appropriate it. The federal government is the one buying the vaccines and that is why the initial ~$120 billion for vaccines and contact tracing that was allotted needs the additional $10 billion.
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May 14, 2022 03:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:What was remarkably effective about those stickers? They are literally the exact same ones used with Bush in 2004. Why do you think that polls blame Biden for gas prices & other inflated goods, in spite of the administration's attempts to blame Putinflation? Why do you think his approvals are in Trump territory & keep dropping? You're always maintaining that voters' lying eyes are lying, and that It's Actually A Good Life, Billy, so what do you think is shaping people's perceptions about Biden & the Dems in Congress? I'm not saying that stickers & other tropes are solely responsible for Biden's ever-dropping approvals, but they're effective because they reinforce the idea that it's his fault that prices are so high, if for no other reason than a lack of any sort of meaningful actions from Biden & Dems to counter those perceptions.
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May 14, 2022 03:07
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Willa Rogers posted:Why do you think that polls blame Biden for gas prices & other inflated goods, in spite of the administration's attempts to blame Putinflation? Why do you think his approvals are in Trump territory & keep dropping? Because gas prices are high and inflation is high? Polls show that less than half of people blame Biden personally for the gas prices. #1 is Covid, #2 is Russia/Ukraine. So, Biden has apparently successfully tricked most Americans into thinking inflation and gas prices are caused by Covid and Puntinflation without any stickers. Seems like you know the answer, but I'm not sure why you think the sticker did that or why it is different now than when Bush went down to 23% approval when gas $4.50 a gallon and the economy collapsed. Or why Obama's approval fell to ~35% when gas got up to $4 a gallon. Somehow, people realized that gas was expensive without a sticker. And, fewer people blame Biden's policies than they did Obama or Bush, so it seems like the stickers are having a neutral to negative impact. I'm still confused about what specifically you think they did and how they have been "obviously" and "remarkably" effective in ushering in fascism.
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May 14, 2022 03:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Because gas prices are high and inflation is high? Polls show that less than half of people blame Biden personally for the gas prices. #1 is Covid, #2 is Russia/Ukraine. So, Biden has apparently successfully tricked most Americans into thinking inflation and gas prices are caused by Covid and Puntinflation without any stickers. Do you have some links for these polls that show Biden placing third in blame for high prices? quote:I'm still confused about what specifically you think they did and how they have been "obviously" and "remarkably" effective in ushering in fascism. I said the stickers aren't entirely responsible (and also that gas isn't the only sector hit by inflation), but rather part of an arsenal of what I believe to be effective tropes, as opposed to Biden laying down the superslam of "Great Maga King" or Pelosi talking about the Good Ole Days of the GOP.
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May 14, 2022 03:19
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's not really Covid prevention money. That was a separate appropriation. They are referring to the $350 billion given to state and local governments to prevent layoffs of public employees and bolster tax revenue in the covid stimulus bill. Because FY21 tax revenues were much higher than expected in most states, many state and municipal governments never ended up using all of their money. It's just part of the general treasury revenues for 600+ state, local, and tribal governments and earmarked for paying public employee costs. The feds can't take it back or re-appropriate it. The federal government is the one buying the vaccines and that is why the initial ~$120 billion for vaccines and contact tracing that was allotted needs the additional $10 billion. Like all of this is wrong. While replacing lost general revenue is a potential eligible use of ARP funds, the primary uses the funds were allotted for per the final rule promulgated by Treasury are: 1.) COVID response 2.) addressing negative economic impacts stemming from COVID for impacted communities, businesses, and nonprofits 3.) Invest in water, sewer, and broadband 4.) Provide premium pay to workers deemed essential And there's about a thousand pages of rules around all of that. Municipalities spending that money on cops are failing their constituencies, and the president should not be encouraging it. Also it is explicitly not just part of the general revenue. The text on how you justify replacement of lost revenue is pretty dense, though there is a base allowance of up to $10 million you can take without requiring any calculations. Edit: source is that this is what I do for a living, but if you want to read 31 CFR part 35 all the rules are there.
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May 14, 2022 03:36
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you have some links for these polls that show Biden placing third in blame for high prices? I believe these were posted in the thread before back in April: https://www.scribd.com/document/569050915/Topline-ABC-Ipsos-Poll-April-9-2022 Papa Putin is first place at 39%*, followed by Oil Companies at 35, Diamond Joe at 33, the Democraps at 31, Republicants (that's all I've got here) at 15, and Turnp at 13. If there's a different poll that isn't an aggregate I'm unaware of it. Notably, about two thirds of people polled are very excited to vote in November, also! Also most Americans are in favor of sending military aid to Ukraine but almost no one wants a US soldier involved (for what I assume are obvious reasons). *For a Great Deal, Great/Good Amount is similar in ranking Wicked Them Beats posted:Like all of this is wrong. While replacing lost general revenue is a potential eligible use of ARP funds, the primary uses the funds were allotted for per the final rule promulgated by Treasury are: What's up with number 3 there? Seems out of place, was it something that got pushed in to cover infrastructure? Also may as well ask, do/did cops count as essential workers? RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 03:45 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 03:40
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you have some links for these polls that show Biden placing third in blame for high prices? quote:Most Americans blame Putin and oil companies for higher gas prices, poll indicates https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/10/gas-prices-inflation-putin-biden-00024289 A WaPo ABC polls from 2 weeks ago had "Supply Chain issues" at #1 at 77% for causes. Willa Rogers posted:I said the stickers aren't entirely responsible (and also that gas isn't the only sector hit by inflation), but rather part of an arsenal of what I believe to be effective tropes, as opposed to Biden laying down the superslam of "Great Maga King" or Pelosi talking about the Good Ole Days of the GOP. I just don't get what you think the stickers have accomplished and you keep saying it has been incredibly effective and ushering in fascism. I just don't see how: Data Point 1: Bush's and Obama's policies were the #1 sources of high gas prices according to voters. Biden's policies are #3 according to voters (and #4 in some polls that include Covid/Supply chain as an option). and Data Point 2: There exist stickers blaming Biden. = Thesis: The stickers have been incredibly effective in achieving something and/or convincing voters Biden's policies are to blame; despite fewer voters blaming his policies than Bush and Obama and the lack of stickers not hurting people from blaming Obama. If we just take it at face value that the difference is the stickers, then the stickers seem to be remarkably ineffective compared to sticker-less messaging of previous Presidents and their responsibilities for gas prices.
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May 14, 2022 03:41
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Like all of this is wrong. While replacing lost general revenue is a potential eligible use of ARP funds, the primary uses the funds were allotted for per the final rule promulgated by Treasury are: Nope. You've got some info mixed up. You're thinking of some other components of the law that are different. You're mixing up two different programs (both of which are separate appropriations from the funds they are talking about). Those are for the Capital Projects Fund and the Coronavirus Relief Fund. The funds they are talking about are SLFRF disbursements. The broadband funds are part of the Capital Projects Fund - not the SLFRF appropriation. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/coronavirus/assistance-for-state-local-and-tribal-governments/capital-projects-fund The state local and tribal aid is dispersed under a separate authorization called "SLFRF Program Disbursements" (State and Local Coronavirus Fiscal Recovery Funds) https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/coronavirus/assistance-for-state-local-and-tribal-governments/state-and-local-fiscal-recovery-funds You can see the public rule making for disbursement of funds for the SLFRF program here: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2022-01-27/pdf/2022-00292.pdf Which is separate from the rules for CPF and CRF disbursements here: https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Capital-Projects-Fund-Guidance-States-Territories-and-Freely-Associated-States.pdf https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/CRF-Guidance_Revision-Regarding-Cost-Incurred.pdf Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 03:56 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 03:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nope. You've got some info mixed up. You're thinking of some other components of the law that are different. Yes I am specifically talking about the SLFRF, the SLFRF is what I do. We all just call it "ARP" because SLFRF is a mouthful. Broadband is a specific use for SLFRF funds, per 31 CFR 35.6(e) Everything I posted was correct, you are way off base here. Edit: like you didn't even read your links: quote:Recipients may use SLFRF funds to:
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May 14, 2022 03:56
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Yes I am specifically talking about the SLFRF, the SLFRF is what I do. We all just call it "ARP" because SLFRF is a mouthful. Nobody said they couldn't do that with SLFRF funds. The point was that these funds are disbursed to the states and not able to be used by the feds to purchase vaccines. The SLFRF funds don't actually authorize the spending. The initial broadband spending was authorized under CPF and SLFRF disbursements can be used to supplement those. But, the reason the SLFRF categorization exists is because it's far broader than the limited uses allowed under CPF and allows it as an option, but isn't earmarked for it like CPF. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/coronavirus/assistance-for-state-local-and-tribal-governments/capital-projects-fund/may-2021 If you look at the full description of the part you quoted, you can see that they can be used for replacing lost public sector revenue and "providing premium pay for essential workers": quote:Replace lost public sector revenue, using this funding to provide government services up to the amount of revenue lost due to the pandemic These were the original claims: Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's not really Covid prevention money. That was a separate appropriation. They are referring to the $350 billion given to state and local governments to prevent layoffs of public employees and bolster tax revenue in the covid stimulus bill. and Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The feds can't take it back or re-appropriate it. The federal government is the one buying the vaccines and that is why the initial ~$120 billion for vaccines and contact tracing that was allotted needs the additional $10 billion. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 04:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Nobody said they couldn't do that with SLFRF funds. You literally did. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The broadband funds are part of the Capital Projects Fund - not the $350 million in state, local, and tribal aid. Now you're going "well technically" but the reality is that if a local government wanted to spend their full SLFRF allotment on braodband they very much could, and somehow that isn't "preventing layoffs of public employees," which is the only use of ARP you were claiming existed before I started questioning you: Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's not really Covid prevention money. That was a separate appropriation. They are referring to the $350 billion given to state and local governments to prevent layoffs of public employees and bolster tax revenue in the covid stimulus bill. Your assertion seems to be that those are the only or even primary uses, but as you yourself have quoted the eligible use of SLFRF funding is for a broad range of COVID responses, whether directly relating to public health or addressing negative economic impacts to communities. My assertion is that because there is this broad range of eligible uses, it is negligent for the president to be using the bully pulpit to encourage state and local governments to use it for police when there is a broad range of beneficial uses that are eligible. For instance, my local government is building a food distribution facility, expanding homeless shelters, and offering nurse home visits to uninsured mothers and their babies. There are also significant limits on what funds can be directed to general revenue and what is referred to in the rules as "provision of government services." There's a calculation based on projections stemming from a pre-COVID baseline, but governments may also opt for a $10 million standard allowance. Smaller cities and counties are using the standard allowance to claim their full SLFRF fund and move it into their general fund, but larger municipalities and states won't be able to do this with anywhere near their full award and will be bound by the limits of the calculation. The president giving them the go-ahead to just dump whatever extra they find themselves with into policing is going to encourage a lot of governments to do just that, and every dollar that is done with is one less dollar going to vaccination campaigns or food programs. I went ahead and bolded the part that actually matters here. The president could be telling local governments to run vaccination campaigns, but instead he's telling them to hire more cops, and it isn't because that's all they're allowed to do. And the idea of the feds "taking it back" is an idea you presented, that wasn't proposed by the person you quoted. We're asking why the president is asking for more cops when that money could be, and was specifically intended for, providing COVID relief.
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May 14, 2022 04:33
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lt2012, you might want to take the L on this one and not continue to insist to an expert's face that actually, they are completely incorrect about their expertise.
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May 14, 2022 04:39
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/10/gas-prices-inflation-putin-biden-00024289 Thanks for the one link (to both you & RBA). You keep reducing my posts to "stickers are ushering in fascism" when I've explained, multiple times, about their being part of a larger campaign of effective communication strategies, especially when compared to the lame-rear end Great Maga King bullshit the Dems are using. Personally, I don't care if the Dems keep doing their stupid poo poo; I'd think loyalists & Dem whisperers like you, however, would intellectually understand the value of effective propaganda, and try to effectively counter it rather than covering your eyes over it & handwave it by... citing an entirely different context like Bush, lol. In the end, one of us will be proven right by the midterm results in less than six months as to the value of effective communications, just as one of us has been proven right about the trajectory of the Democratic Congress and its legislation to date.
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May 14, 2022 04:58
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1525140786672766976?s=20&t=ddgzSn6tr-LcrSc3bFiMMA The Democratic Party will acquiesce to this, cases will explode, and we’ll all see each other in November.
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May 14, 2022 05:02
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Wicked Them Beats posted:You literally did. Nobody is arguing that giving it to cops is a good idea or that they have to. Just that the idea that these funds would have been used by the feds is wrong. There are separate appropriations from the actual $120 billion initial covid appropriation for federal contact tracing and vaccination efforts. They have already been dispursed to state, local, and tribal governments. A big flaming stink posted:lt2012, you might want to take the L on this one and not continue to insist to an expert's face that actually, they are completely incorrect about their expertise. I've literally worked on assisting state comptrollers with legal compliance for grant writing - including CPF grants. He is coming at it from the grantee side where you don't make the distinction between how the various appropriations are authorized at the federal level. You don't appear to know anything about it, which is why you don't seem to realize that we aren't talking about him being "completely incorrect" and we're talking about the specific authorization for the original CPF funds. And that was a spinoff of the original discussion about how CCPF and SLFRF grants are different from the actual funding for vaccines and federal prevention funds. He's just experiencing it from the grantee side and most likely works as a public sector employee for a state or municipal agency that isn't making a distinction between the appropriations because all of it comes from "ARRA" funds to them. The original person thought that Biden was "defunding" vaccine and contract tracing money in exchange for funding cops; which is not what happened because they are a separate set of funds and disbursed differently. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 05:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just that the idea that these funds would have been used by the feds is wrong. This is a fundamental misreading of the person and the tweet you originally quoted. They aren't upset because they believe Biden should be seizing unspent ARP funds and directing them to COVID, they're upset because in the face of the Federal government losing the ability to fight COVID, Biden is turning to state and local governments and demanding they "fight crime." It's a horrible juxtaposition, made even worse that he is specifically telling them to direct their COVID relief funds in such a way.
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May 14, 2022 05:13
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Wicked Them Beats posted:This is a fundamental misreading of the person and the tweet you originally quoted. They aren't upset because they believe Biden should be seizing unspent ARP funds and directing them to COVID, they're upset because in the face of the Federal government losing the ability to fight COVID, Biden is turning to state and local governments and demanding they "fight crime." It's a horrible juxtaposition, made even worse that he is specifically telling them to direct their COVID relief funds in such a way. The one sentence that he posted as commentary is literally: quote:This is.. dire. COVID relief shouldn't be used for police at all outside of giving them vaccines and PPE. It should not be used to fight crime. And the follow up post someone responded with is literally: quote:The Democratic Party will acquiesce to this, cases will explode, and we’ll all see each other in November. The tweet thread ends with this: https://twitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1525297041697562624 In what way do you think it is a fundamental misreading to claim that they are saying they are "defunding vaccines" when the original tweet author literally ends with a claim that they are "defunding vaccines to fund the police" and "taking money from covid" causing "cases to explode"? Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 05:20 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 05:17
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Wicked, you responded to a descriptive claim from LT2012 by claiming they were broadly wrong...Wicked Them Beats posted:Like all of this is wrong. While replacing lost general revenue is a potential eligible use of ARP funds, the primary uses the funds were allotted for per the final rule promulgated by Treasury are: ...while providing evidence they were right and simultaneously making an unrelated prescriptive claim. Number 2 in the list you provided and number 4 are both things that the funds are intended for, and contemplate funding of things like law enforcement. LT pointed out the distinction between the funding sources involved and their scopes of use. The SLFRF final rule actually countenances a pretty limited scope of vaccination support (most comment response materials are about vaccination incentives; there appears to be nothing about vaccine purchasing, which is the main need rn and is federally oriented) compared with other funding tranches, and discusses, in specific and in detail, law enforcement funding (including new hires) to respond to increased gun violence rates that were evident during the development of the budget act (starting at page 19 of the pdf, under heading d). You then completed your shift from descriptive to prescriptive argument here: Wicked Them Beats posted:My assertion is that because there is this broad range of eligible uses, it is negligent for the president to be using the bully pulpit to encourage state and local governments to use it for police when there is a broad range of beneficial uses that are eligible. LT2012 is correct about the meaning of the rulemaking and the available apportionment of funding, as well as the scope of intended use. The source of the confusion is the initial post deploying the tweet. The tweet thread LT2012 responded to (like the last couple times this weird commutative funding argument has been made in the last few pages) is raising the idea that the funding should be used on vaccines by linking a story about the state and local recovery funds and their dedicated uses, then putting it side by side with the politico reporting about the admin trying to get attention to the Republicans torpedoing additional federal covid relief. The only source of ambiguity is that once again, this bad argument has been deployed in the form of a zero-context tweet with a one-line reaction. It's also been covered before, several times. The root material from the administration is targeting a different set of audiences affected by the uptick in violence, and even there, the actual speech by Biden (and other rulemaking) places a heavy emphasis on things like re-entry programs and mental health support. If the mods would actually enforce the rules on this, none of the confusion involved would have happened, and we wouldn't have had to clarify the funding line issue several times as different users deploy it in the thread. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:28 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 05:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The one sentence that he posted as commentary is literally: It's called a play on words, you might have heard of this "Defund the Police" thing. They're riffing on that, not making a statement about federal program funding mechanisms. The two people you quoted in this thread made statements about what they believe will happen if COVID funding runs out and state and local governments respond by ignoring the problem and not addressing it with their available funds. And they're right. People are upset about Biden calling for money that could be used to fight COVID to go to the cops, and your response is to start lecturing people on federal funding protocols. And then on top of it you make misleading statements about how SLFRF funds could be directed in order to bolster... some sort of argument? Honestly if your goal isn't to defend Biden I don't understand why you responded at all, no one is going to come away from your responses with any actionable knowledge of Federal funding paradigms, even if they do read the links you hastily googled up.
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May 14, 2022 05:28
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poo poo, all I'm saying is that it's bleak to on one hand not have enough money for vaccines while also telling local governments to use COVID relief money on police instead of stuff that's actually useful. I shouldn't have said vaccines since those are already paid for by the federal government, but there are a lot more useful ways to use that cash than giving it to the police. It's also lovely that the Biden admin is using this as another checkpoint to say that they are totally for funding the police and would never, ever, ever think about cutting funds from the police ever.
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May 14, 2022 05:34
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Wicked Them Beats posted:It's called a play on words, you might have heard of this "Defund the Police" thing. They're riffing on that, not making a statement about federal program funding mechanisms. The two people you quoted in this thread made statements about what they believe will happen if COVID funding runs out and state and local governments respond by ignoring the problem and not addressing it with their available funds. And they're right. Explaining how something works isn't defending it. I think it sucks and is dumb, but he isn't taking money from vaccines or issuing any new money. It's all funds that were appropriated in April 2021 to state, local, and tribal governments. The OP is literally one post above me stating that is what he was saying, so I think we probably don't need to ponder hypotheticals about what they really meant. It's good to actually know how things work, otherwise you can't correctly identify solutions if you don't know what is actually happening.
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May 14, 2022 05:43
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Willa Rogers posted:Thanks for the one link (to both you & RBA). I still don't know what you are arguing or think I'm arguing, though? You're just being kind of snarky because you were linked to something that proved you wrong and falling back on "you're a sheeple and loyalist, unlike independent and sober-minded me" instead of explaining why. You're saying that if the midterms go badly, then it means the stickers worked? I'm just confused why you think they are an example of incredibly effective propaganda when the actual results of people and their "lying eyes" is that they blame Biden personally less than they did the sticker-less Obama or Bush. Why do you think that the Republican messaging against Biden is much more effective than previous messaging campaigns about gas prices when the evidence seems to suggest otherwise? It seems like the obvious answer is that material conditions are worse now than they were under Obama, but not as bad as they were under Bush, which would explain why Biden's approval is in between them despite fewer people blaming him personally for it. It also lines up with all available evidence showing that people disapprove of Biden's performance at much higher levels than they blame him personally for causing it. You keep saying people are "handwaving" the stickers/messaging campaign away, but nobody is saying that his approval isn't low. I'm just confused about your focus on the stickers/messaging when the polls show the Biden's "stupid poo poo" and "propaganda" of blaming Covid and Russia/Ukraine seems to be what everyone agrees on. It seems like you are giving a ton of weight to the idea that the stickers and larger messaging campaigns are impacting why people feel that way - despite all the evidence to the contrary - when the much simpler explanation of "things are expensive and not getting better" is the much more obvious answer. I just don't know why your focus seems to be there and you're getting upset that people are asking why. I would say that the idea that material conditions are driving opinion is actually the more pessimistic view for the midterms than your assumption about messaging. Messaging can be radically changed quickly, but the material conditions of the supply chain and Putin's decisions about what to do in Ukraine can't be. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 06:08 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 05:52
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Willa Rogers posted:Thanks for the one link (to both you & RBA). For the record I don't know anything about whatever banana stickers you're seeing or the Legend of Zelda-rear end subtitle, I just remembered last month's slapfight. I think we both have the same midterm expectations (and have since the general election; it's not hard to guess). I see a lot of Let's Go Brandons on cars though.
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May 14, 2022 06:29
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1525140786672766976?s=20&t=ddgzSn6tr-LcrSc3bFiMMA Pretending the president has any substantial power over the purse is laughable(and notably a classic piece of propaganda). That money was set aside for policing and other local government poo poo from the start. It's not news. Even if the states don't spend it it just goes back to the balance sheet for Congress to reallocate. The president literally can't take the cop money for more vaccines. I swear schools need to bring back civics so this can get hammered into people. Yell at senators on this one. Biden being pro police is still bad.
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May 14, 2022 06:37
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For the people going 'At least it's not a second Trump term', what at all makes you think you're not getting that as well? Trump should have been the wake-up call that the Dems were doing everything wrong- and for a lot of voters, it was- but the reaction has been to double and triple down on exactly the things they were doing wrong. And on the current topic, it's almost impressive how police departments manage to soak up effectively infinite money. What do they even do with it? Besides embezzle lots of it, I'm sure.
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May 14, 2022 08:30
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Epic High Five posted:I challenged someone before to provide evidence that the left isn't the most docile dissenting bloc in US politics that falls in line more than any other to crickets, so now I challenge you. Prove it. I maintain that the left's idiotic loyalty is exactly the reason why the only thing they're served at the kiddie table is plates of poo poo. Also who says that leftists are not doing things to help even if they aren't voting or aren't voting for democrats? Making a difference directly in people's lives through local activism or just local charity... works. Voting for, donating to and volunteering for a massive political machine OR a weak local democratic office/campaign with no institutional support doesn't do more to help, and the proof of that is what's been happening since after the democrats got into office after 2020. It just makes people feel like they're a part of that machine for good or for ill, or that they'll never win, respectively. It doesn't give them any power over it. To get power over it, they have to be part of a strong local and then state democratic party apparatus and work their way up, often through connections and power brokerage. How many people are donating to abortion providers and groups? Rather than, say, the democratic party? How many are volunteering to transport women to get healthcare? How many will continue or will bother to start when it becomes a felony? Even if it's not a felony in the state they are in? How many are even aware of the difference between clinics and Crisis Pregnancy Centers? Do the know the right places to go in their area? Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 11:44 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 11:21
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Discendo Vox posted:If the mods would actually enforce the rules on this, none of the confusion involved would have happened, and we wouldn't have had to clarify the funding line issue several times as different users deploy it in the thread. You're never getting a blue star. Get over it, professor. If the mods would actually enforce the rules on backseat modding, none of the aggravated shitposting involved would have happened, and I wouldn't have had to eat six or more hours several times rebuking a specific user that deploys it in this thread (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 11:49 on May 14, 2022 |
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May 14, 2022 11:39
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Personally I believe the person who does this for a living but I've been called the stupidest poster in this thread so who knows.
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May 14, 2022 13:21
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Gumball Gumption posted:Personally I believe the person who does this for a living but I've been called the stupidest poster in this thread so who knows. This thread has certainly proven that some people get paid incredible amounts of money to do literally everything wrong at their jobs.
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May 14, 2022 13:26
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