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Dr. Quarex posted:Obviously "annnnnnd NEWWWWW!" is always a lovely moment, but every time I hear it I keep thinking there is some famous "annnnnd STIIIIIIILL!!!" moment that got a huge pop, which suggests to me it was in a match with some sort of wonky uncertain finish, or else the audience would have already hit the big pop from the face champion winning the match. most of Hogan's cage match title defenses, back when there weren't massive screens in the arenas so nobody had any idea who won when they did the "Hogan over the top/heel through the door race to the floor" finish.
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May 12, 2022 18:47
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forkboy84 posted:I'd say Shida & Sakazaki are probably in or near the top tier but with the caveat that honestly neither would be in my top 10 of active women's wrestlers. Not only do they wrestle more, and a stiffer style, they generally start younger as well. Mei Suruga is 22 and has wrestled 468 matches. Starlight Kid is 20 and has over 400 matches Riho being the most extreme outlier, had her first match at age 9, and at 24 has 979 matches under her belt, more than Roman Reigns.
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May 13, 2022 01:48
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Spuckuk posted:Not only do they wrestle more, and a stiffer style, they generally start younger as well. And this is one of many reasons people should watch joshi promotions if they can. Stardom and TJPW are awesome
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May 13, 2022 02:04
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i'd kick all their rear end
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May 13, 2022 02:08
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Spuckuk posted:Riho being the most extreme outlier, had her first match at age 9, and at 24 has 979 matches under her belt, more than Roman Reigns. who'd even do this? Teaching kids BJJ is kinda nail biting because they only tend to catastrophically injure each other, its never something small, I can't imagine teaching a nine year old girl, headlock, tackle, drop down, hip toss, get it again.
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May 13, 2022 02:14
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Defenestrategy posted:who'd even do this? Ice Ribbon, 666 with Ram Kaicho, Yuni had his first DDT match at 8 or so, currently wrestling as El Unicorn
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May 13, 2022 02:23
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Defenestrategy posted:who'd even do this? Teaching kids BJJ is kinda nail biting because they only tend to catastrophically injure each other, its never something small, I can't imagine teaching a nine year old girl, headlock, tackle, drop down, hip toss, get it again. Emi Sakura started an after-school exercise program called "Action Gymnastics" which was basic safe wrestling moves on mats that were no more intense than what you'd get in a kid's gymnastics or karate/judo class and the emphasis was on not getting hurt. They were apparently very popular (Riho came from the very first class) and formed the basis of the Joshi style people now call Sakuraism. She talks about it in this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNB12SKLa5U You can see elements of it in Emi's free wrestling classes for fun and exercise program for women that Mei Suruga now organises, DareJo. There's videos of it on Mei's Instagram if you look at saved stories: https://www.instagram.com/mei_gtmv/?hl=en (Lulu Pencil executes a very clean dropkick in one) and on the DareJyo twitter account: https://twitter.com/darejyo1 fez_machine fucked around with this message at 02:30 on May 13, 2022 |
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May 13, 2022 02:25
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That’s really cool
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May 13, 2022 02:28
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Why did it take Bradshaw so long to get to the main event? Despite the JBL world title reign reign sucking, Bradshaw could really wrestle during the Attitude Era and surely could have been a challenger during an Austin reign. If Vince was willing to have virtual unknown in the US Dr Death be a challenger to Stone Cold, why wouldn't Bradshaw be considered for a short singles push in 98 or thereabouts?
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May 15, 2022 00:51
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Why did it take Bradshaw so long to get to the main event? Despite the JBL world title reign reign sucking, Bradshaw could really wrestle during the Attitude Era and surely could have been a challenger during an Austin reign. If Vince was willing to have virtual unknown in the US Dr Death be a challenger to Stone Cold, why wouldn't Bradshaw be considered for a short singles push in 98 or thereabouts? He sucked at wrestling and didn't really do anything interesting character wise until APA became kind of a comedy act and doing funny backstage segments doesn't make you a main event act. Dr. Death also wasn't an unknown in the US and even then he didn't end up giving him that push!
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May 15, 2022 00:53
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Bradshaw could do literally one thing well and it was his lariat
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May 15, 2022 01:23
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I can't think of a single signature move Bradshaw did other than the CFH
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May 15, 2022 01:27
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He had an OK powerbomb, I think?
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May 15, 2022 01:27
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JBL winning the title from Eddie was when I checked out of WWE for a long time. My recollection was everyone online was pissed that this idiot was getting a push.
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May 15, 2022 01:32
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I stopped watching for a long time and when I next saw an episode of Raw the cool asskicking APA guy was this boring loving rich dude with short hair and no beard.
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May 15, 2022 01:39
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JBL’s theme was pretty good.
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May 15, 2022 02:00
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TheKingslayer posted:I can't think of a single signature move Bradshaw did other than the CFH Fall away slam Big boot Overhead punch in the back Shoulderblock?
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May 15, 2022 03:19
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oldpainless posted:Fall away slam Powerbomb attempt that was always countered
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May 15, 2022 07:10
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TheKingslayer posted:I can't think of a single signature move Bradshaw did other than the CFH Goosestepping?
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May 15, 2022 10:52
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In your opinion, what is keeping AEW from doing better in the ratings?
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May 15, 2022 13:42
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Manwithastick posted:In your opinion, what is keeping AEW from doing better in the ratings? Right now? The NBA / NHL playoffs. More generally? Well Dynamite is the only show doing year over year growth and is often showing fairly large growth in the areas that matter. If you are asking just what can they do to grow even more I'm not sure there is any short term thing they should do. They just need to keep putting on the best shows they can.
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May 15, 2022 14:01
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Manwithastick posted:In your opinion, what is keeping AEW from doing better in the ratings? not having decades of inertia
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May 15, 2022 14:26
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Manwithastick posted:In your opinion, what is keeping AEW from doing better in the ratings? Many of the storylines feel like they are missing some connective tissue that would help them feel like you have to watch on a weekly basis to see what's going to happen next. You look at episodes of Raw or Nitro from the Monday Night Wars and the best ones had this chaotic energy where anything could and often did happen. Whereas in AEW, most of the matches will have a foregone conclusion and most of the stuff in between matches is Tony Schiavone interviewing someone who gets interrupted, or someone is jumped backstage, or people stand in a ring and fire verbal insults at each other. (Often you can go a week or more without any progression on an angle at all until suddenly a match pops up seemingly out of nowhere). There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that, but it can give the shows a feeling of sameness - like it's great TV, but it's not must watch TV, you know what I mean? I'd like to see it have more of an episodic feel, like the Wardlow-MJF storyline, that has been fantastic so far and is the exception that proves the rule in my opinion.
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May 15, 2022 14:31
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duckdealer posted:More generally? Well Dynamite is the only show doing year over year growth and is often showing fairly large growth in the areas that matter.
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May 15, 2022 14:37
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Saul Goode posted:Many of the storylines feel like they are missing some connective tissue that would help them feel like you have to watch on a weekly basis to see what's going to happen next. You look at episodes of Raw or Nitro from the Monday Night Wars and the best ones had this chaotic energy where anything could and often did happen. Whereas in AEW, most of the matches will have a foregone conclusion and most of the stuff in between matches is Tony Schiavone interviewing someone who gets interrupted, or someone is jumped backstage, or people stand in a ring and fire verbal insults at each other. (Often you can go a week or more without any progression on an angle at all until suddenly a match pops up seemingly out of nowhere). There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that, but it can give the shows a feeling of sameness - like it's great TV, but it's not must watch TV, you know what I mean? I'd like to see it have more of an episodic feel, like the Wardlow-MJF storyline, that has been fantastic so far and is the exception that proves the rule in my opinion. i don't think this tracks in the slightest and i'm not sure how you can feel this way if you're keeping up with dynamite and rampage every week
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May 15, 2022 14:46
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Manwithastick posted:In your opinion, what is keeping AEW from doing better in the ratings? The fact that they don't cater to my tastes completely. If only they were run like '90s All Japan...
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May 15, 2022 15:10
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forkboy84 posted:The fact that they don't cater to my tastes completely. If only they were run like '90s All Japan... Eddie Kingston sockpuppet spotted
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May 15, 2022 15:21
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Saul Goode posted:Many of the storylines feel like they are missing some connective tissue that would help them feel like you have to watch on a weekly basis to see what's going to happen next. You look at episodes of Raw or Nitro from the Monday Night Wars and the best ones had this chaotic energy where anything could and often did happen. Whereas in AEW, most of the matches will have a foregone conclusion and most of the stuff in between matches is Tony Schiavone interviewing someone who gets interrupted, or someone is jumped backstage, or people stand in a ring and fire verbal insults at each other. (Often you can go a week or more without any progression on an angle at all until suddenly a match pops up seemingly out of nowhere). There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that, but it can give the shows a feeling of sameness - like it's great TV, but it's not must watch TV, you know what I mean? I'd like to see it have more of an episodic feel, like the Wardlow-MJF storyline, that has been fantastic so far and is the exception that proves the rule in my opinion. I think this is more "what could AEW do to be better" than "why isn't AEW more popular," which are two not entirely related questions. Like, are there really people who are in the market for a show like Dynamite and are turned off by the quality of storylines? Like, big statistically significant amounts? I think AEW targets a specific kind of fan -- let's not say hardcore, but at least more-than-casual. And there's a cap on that. Like during the height of the Attitude Era, wrestling fandom was huge but comparatively shallow. Only tape traders and newsgroup fans knew about anything outside WWE, WCW and maaaaybe ECW (that is, pre-acquisition). Today, even though the total market for wrestling has shrunk dramatically, the share of that audience that is more-than-casual has grown a lot. It's easier to know guys from New Japan or GCW and AEW caters to that kind of fan. But that kind of show won't reach the people who put on WWE because it's on and they know who Roman Reigns or the New Day is from a decade ago. It won't reach the stan culture audience who fixates on one megastar like Sasha Banks. WWE can reach those kinds of fans in ways that AEW can't, in addition to drawing X amount of the more-than-casual audience who might watch both. All of this is vibes and feelings, though, and obviously most of us don't have data to back those things up.
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May 15, 2022 17:20
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flatluigi posted:i don't think this tracks in the slightest and i'm not sure how you can feel this way if you're keeping up with dynamite and rampage every week In fairness to Saul, I dunno if its because I'm a giant wrestling nerd but, looking back over the last two months of programming, on average there's maybe one or two matches a week without basically a foregone conclusion and among those is there a rarely a match where you go "well poo poo I got no idea whats happening here" like Dax/Cash or Andrade/Darby That said, I don't think it would affect a demographic which AEW could still grow in, which is people who don't know that AEW exists or that wrestling is awesome.
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May 15, 2022 17:23
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honestly i just fundamentally disagree that being able to predict how a match is going to end or even see where storylines are going in general is a bad thing? like, the one predictable match on this week's dynamite was cm punk vs john silver and as much as i like my hungry boy what would you gain from cutting into the build to the punk/page title match by having that upset the important part is the matches, and seeing people who can put on amazing performances do so. putting so much weight on unpredictability and 'what happens between matches' just makes me feel like you're starting from "what does WWE do that AEW doesn't," assuming that something other than inertia is why people keep watching wwe
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May 15, 2022 17:39
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AEW really needs a crossover star/guest that could get people that normally wouldn't watch wrestling watching and following the product but given how splintered everything is with Streaming/niche interests I'm not sure what that would be. They tried it with Shaq, Snoop Dog and Tyson and it helped somewhat but it still wasn't a major home run.
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May 15, 2022 19:08
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SatoshiMiwa posted:AEW really needs a crossover star/guest that could get people that normally wouldn't watch wrestling watching and following the product but given how splintered everything is with Streaming/niche interests I'm not sure what that would be. They tried it with Shaq, Snoop Dog and Tyson and it helped somewhat but it still wasn't a major home run. I dunno. Maybe it's just me but I always hated the non-wrestler celebrity guests, regardless of whether WWE or WCW did it. It always came across to me as a very obvious ploy to get non-wrestling fans to care about wrestling and I don't remember it ever really paying off big. I'm cool with them bringing in a like a local sports star or something to cut a short promo or something but I really hate it when they try to do more than that, with a few exceptions. For whatever reason I thought it was hilarious and awesome that Rosario Dawson of all people was put on TV as the audience member who talked poo poo at Malakai Black and then jumped on his back to stop his from doing whatever. But most of the time bringing in a celebrity guest feels like the equivalent of someone wearing the local sports team jersey during their entrance to get a cheap pop. It feels insulting but again maybe that's just me. To answer the original question though I think they just need to keep doing what they're doing on Dynamite and give it time. Rampage really needs to be moved to a different day and time though. I personally don't mind it but the ratings for Friday night have a ceiling and it would be cool if AEW could move it to a slot with more potential for growth.
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May 15, 2022 19:26
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Elephant Ambush posted:I dunno. Maybe it's just me but I always hated the non-wrestler celebrity guests, regardless of whether WWE or WCW did it. It always came across to me as a very obvious ploy to get non-wrestling fans to care about wrestling and I don't remember it ever really paying off big. I'm cool with them bringing in a like a local sports star or something to cut a short promo or something but I really hate it when they try to do more than that, with a few exceptions. For whatever reason I thought it was hilarious and awesome that Rosario Dawson of all people was put on TV as the audience member who talked poo poo at Malakai Black and then jumped on his back to stop his from doing whatever. But most of the time bringing in a celebrity guest feels like the equivalent of someone wearing the local sports team jersey during their entrance to get a cheap pop. It feels insulting but again maybe that's just me. The first Wrestlemania would have been a colossal failure without Mr. T. The media he was able to do in the last week saved the show. Beyond that Malone/Rodman was the second biggest PPV in WCW history and Tyson was instrumental to launching the success of the Attitude era.
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May 15, 2022 19:33
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MassRafTer posted:The first Wrestlemania would have been a colossal failure without Mr. T. The media he was able to do in the last week saved the show. Beyond that Malone/Rodman was the second biggest PPV in WCW history and Tyson was instrumental to launching the success of the Attitude era. Heck even in Japan a lot of the 80's/90's biggest New Japan gates used similar ideas with stars from other fighting fields to help produce big gates (see the Russians at the first Tokyo Dome show) AEW would have to do it in a way not to alienate it's core audience but getting a crossover star would really help them and I sorta of get the feeling that could be Darby if they lean into his stunt side just a little bit more
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May 15, 2022 19:55
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Are there differences in AEW workers’ contracts restricting some from taking outside dates and not others, or is it simply a case of some choosing to do occasional things elsewhere while others don’t?
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May 15, 2022 20:24
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Answers Me posted:Are there differences in AEW workers’ contracts restricting some from taking outside dates and not others, or is it simply a case of some choosing to do occasional things elsewhere while others don’t? The original reports were that certain contracts had restrictions (like Mox not being able to work the G1 show in the US) for the biggest stars while the rest of the roster had less restrictions but it seems like that has changed and now everyone does what they want within reason and giving AEW priority on dates.
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May 15, 2022 20:26
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From what I can tell AEW's growth is slow but sustainable. (They may still be in the red because of the Games division but we don't actually have numbers on that, just what Tony Khan says.) Even in this heavy NBA season there's a solid core of about 800k-900k folks watching Dynamite regularly and that's good. And honestly the way things are going in cable TV (TV as a whole really)- live events like wrestling, sports, etc. are going to be an increasing pillar for channels going forward, as people watch scripted programming at their leisure on streaming services. So Dynamite's still going to be pretty valuable since most people who watch it want to watch it on Wednesday or near enough as they can (especially because spoilers circulate so fast on social media.)
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May 15, 2022 20:37
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Saul Goode posted:Many of the storylines feel like they are missing some connective tissue that would help them feel like you have to watch on a weekly basis to see what's going to happen next. You look at episodes of Raw or Nitro from the Monday Night Wars and the best ones had this chaotic energy where anything could and often did happen. Whereas in AEW, most of the matches will have a foregone conclusion and most of the stuff in between matches is Tony Schiavone interviewing someone who gets interrupted, or someone is jumped backstage, or people stand in a ring and fire verbal insults at each other. (Often you can go a week or more without any progression on an angle at all until suddenly a match pops up seemingly out of nowhere). There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that, but it can give the shows a feeling of sameness - like it's great TV, but it's not must watch TV, you know what I mean? I'd like to see it have more of an episodic feel, like the Wardlow-MJF storyline, that has been fantastic so far and is the exception that proves the rule in my opinion. So basically AEW needs to crib from Mid-South and WCCW TV? I'd be all for that.
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May 15, 2022 21:00
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flatluigi posted:honestly i just fundamentally disagree that being able to predict how a match is going to end or even see where storylines are going in general is a bad thing? I mean, I literally said it's not inherently a bad thing. I've been watching wrestling since the 80s and AEW is by far and away the best wrestling promotion I've ever seen. But is it perfect? No. Could it be better? Yes. I've said it before, I think Tony Khan is an absolute wrestling genius for the way he can see big picture storylines and work towards them over a significant length of time. But he needs someone to help him flesh that stuff out along the way, or stop that sense of recycled ideas and give a bit more life to the roster. Britt Baker is a good example, she got herself over massively and was destined to win the women's title, but as soon as she did her booking just went into this weird modern-day Honky Tonk Man dead zone which took away the part of her character that people had really latched on to. All I was really trying to say was that AEW's booking style doesn't create a sense that you've got to watch every episode. Death Triangle are my favourite faction, but they're just biding time until their PPV blow-off match with House of Black right now. I'm not looking forward to this coming Dynamite to find out what happens next in their feud because the odds are it'll be House of Black cutting a promo backstage that gets interrupted with a brawl. The week after that HoB will get the upper hand with mind games (i.e. the lights will go out then they will beat them up) following a Death Triangle victory over, say, Bear Country and Serpentico. Then we'll get to the PPV blow-off and it will be an insane match with a bunch of MOTY nominations that I will love. But the story beats along the way are going to tread the same ground as a good chunk of AEW's storylines. Again in and of itself this isn't a bad thing. The moments will be enjoyable and it won't be bad television like when you try to watch WWE and your eyeballs bleed out of your skull from the eldritch horror of their booking, but it's not must-watch TV. Am I making sense?
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May 16, 2022 02:28
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I don't follow, still? what do you want them to do differently, since this is your sticking point for why they're not more successful. do you think they should have less buildup for their PPV matches? should they not book matches with the competitors against other wrestlers/teams in the lead-up? what would they do differently to turn it into whatever "must-watch" means? edit: it's also really not the thrust of your argument but I also really disagree that britt stopped being over once she got the title
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May 16, 2022 02:52
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