US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Most people believe in god, God did it is not a serious argument.

# ? May 17, 2022 14:20

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# ? May 28, 2024 15:35

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Gumball Gumption posted:

Most people believe in god, God did it is not a serious argument.

Okay, so Donald Trump is not an evil person?

# ? May 17, 2022 14:22

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Congress is having Pentagon officials testify under oath about UFOs (now called UAPs) for the first time since the 1960's.

So far, nothing too exciting.

- They have been able to identify about half of all UFO/UAP sightings in the last 20 years, but have no explanation for the other half.

- No evidence at all they are extraterrestrial.

- Most likely explanations are advanced drone prototypes.

- Treating it as a national security issue now; although a minor one. For too long nobody really looked deeply into them because of the joke factor of UFOs.

- They have confirmed that the vast majority of the UFOs/UAPs that they haven't been able to identify are real objects and not issues with sensors. Some of them may be issues with sensors, but they had multiple confirmations of size and geographic area from different sensors to give them enough confidence to say that they are real physical objects and not issues with sensors, radar, equipment, etc.

- They are going to make more footage of UAPs they haven't been able to identify public later this year.

- Hearing is ongoing for a few more hours, so there might be additional information coming out.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1526549944416538624

# ? May 17, 2022 14:22

Ither: Jan 30, 2010

FlamingLiberal posted:

Love that in blue states, Dem gerrymanders are illegal, whereas in at least some red states, GOP gerrymanders are fine

An example of why you don't disarm yourself while fighting a war.

FizFashizzle posted:

Can�t imagine poor Jerry has a real primary left in him.

He should use this opportunity as a chance to bow out. 70 years olds should not be in Congress.

# ? May 17, 2022 14:39

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

FlamingLiberal posted:

Love that in blue states, Dem gerrymanders are illegal, whereas in at least some red states, GOP gerrymanders are fine

Dems actually did surprisingly well in redistricting, but this NY thing throws all of that into the air

Ither posted:

An example of why you don't disarm yourself while fighting a war.

This was only partially Dems shooting themselves in the foot. It's the result of a 2014 state constitutional amendment that was voted on by the voters of New York to establish an independent redistricting commission that would try to create as many fair and competitive districts as possible.

Most New York Dems did support it in 2014, though.

# ? May 17, 2022 14:46

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Congress is having Pentagon officials testify under oath about UFOs (now called UAPs) for the first time since the 1960's.

So far, nothing too exciting.

- They have been able to identify about half of all UFO/UAP sightings in the last 20 years, but have no explanation for the other half.

- No evidence at all they are extraterrestrial.

- Most likely explanations are advanced drone prototypes.

- Treating it as a national security issue now; although a minor one. For too long nobody really looked deeply into them because of the joke factor of UFOs.

- They have confirmed that the vast majority of the UFOs/UAPs that they haven't been able to identify are real objects and not issues with sensors. Some of them may be issues with sensors, but they had multiple confirmations of size and geographic area from different sensors to give them enough confidence to say that they are real physical objects and not issues with sensors, radar, equipment, etc.

- They are going to make more footage of UAPs they haven't been able to identify public later this year.

- Hearing is ongoing for a few more hours, so there might be additional information coming out.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1526549944416538624

I can't wait until first contact with the US government, when the ambassador gets put in an temporary relocation facility for off-planet visitors.

# ? May 17, 2022 14:48

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Congress is having Pentagon officials testify under oath about UFOs (now called UAPs) for the first time since the 1960's.

So far, nothing too exciting.

- They have been able to identify about half of all UFO/UAP sightings in the last 20 years, but have no explanation for the other half.

- No evidence at all they are extraterrestrial.

- Most likely explanations are advanced drone prototypes.

- Treating it as a national security issue now; although a minor one. For too long nobody really looked deeply into them because of the joke factor of UFOs.

So they think they are advanced drone prototypes from China (or Russia). These have unknown propulsion, are capable of accelerating and decelerating from hypersonic speeds and diving into the water. But this is not a big deal for national security. It's fine to have multi-century technology gaps with your adversaries. Also, the Chinese have apparently had this technology since the 1940s.

vvv There's very credible evidence for these sightings - observed simultaneously by pilot eyesight, ship radar, and fighter radar. There's been a lot of consistency too of different kinds (saucers, tic-tacs, black triangles). There's a point where you have to accept its something real, whatever it is. It's also not just the US. This stuff happens all over the world.

Also, since they also have been observed diving, UAP is the better nomenclature, because it is a wet-rear end phenomena.

cat botherer fucked around with this message at 14:59 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 14:51

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

America's UFO-obsession is kind of adorable. Though I guess only as long as you don't talk about anything except UFOs with the kind of people who obsess about them...

Also "UAP"? Nah, gently caress that. I'll use UFO until the day I die.

# ? May 17, 2022 14:54

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

cat botherer posted:

So they think they are advanced drone prototypes from China (or Russia). These have unknown propulsion, are capable of accelerating and decelerating from hypersonic speeds and diving into the water. But this is not a big deal for national security. It's fine to have multi-century technology gaps with your adversaries. Also, the Chinese have apparently had this technology since the 1940s.

Yeah that doesn't seem right at all. I just assumed most of them were just weird atmospheric anomalies and what not. Weather/physics can do some crazy stuff sometimes, interesting but whatever. Now I'm sort of curious what's going on here.

Some stuff the US was testing, and just blaming on others?

# ? May 17, 2022 14:58

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

LionArcher posted:

Of course it is. And control over the poor/non white folks. I'm a white guy. I can see it coming from a mile away.

We're heading towards fascism way, way faster than a lot of folks in this thread of the media wants to admit. We're well past this might happen into this is probably going to happen. The liberals (not left, liberals) are utterly unequipped and incompetent to handle what's to come, (and or the ones in charge are fine with it as long as they can continue to get rich and have cheap maids/labor).

Hard agree.

I think the thing that makes American fascism difficult for some people to spot is that it is, well, deeply American. We have Nazis but it's not going to look like Nazism, it's going to be much worse in certain enclaves than in others. Anyone waiting for the fascists to come and take over our cities is waiting for the wrong thing.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:03

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

It�s obviously that swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in an air pocket and refracted the light from Venus

# ? May 17, 2022 15:03

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

No, Trump didn't do this successfully. He only activated a small portion of voters and turned off many more. He only received 46% to 47% of the vote share in both of his elections - which is lower than any modern Republican except John McCain's historic loses.

Successfully doing it would look like a candidate receiving between 60% and 65% of the popular vote. It would imply that they kept their original coalition and expanded it to mobilize and capture most of the ~24% of voters in that group that are inactive.

It's really hard to activate an entire group of inactive voters in general, but even harder to activate a group who oppose at least half of your agenda without losing anyone in your current coalition from disappointment, single issue voting, enthusiasm, etc.

The only one who has really successfully done it is FDR, but even the New Deal Coalition died about a decade later. Plus, partisanship and ideology were a lot more fluid and heterodox at that point.

Do raw numbers/ turnout not matter to you?

# ? May 17, 2022 15:04

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

dr_rat posted:

Yeah that doesn't seem right at all. I just assumed most of them were just weird atmospheric anomalies and what not. Weather/physics can do some crazy stuff sometimes, interesting but whatever. Now I'm sort of curious what's going on here.

Some stuff the US was testing, and just blaming on others?

So there's some weird divergence on how the different branches treat UAPs. The Navy has been much more open about it. I've heard a number of Navy officers assert that it couldn't be the US, because the UAPs have caused serious safety issues during training. The Air Force is much less open, but I've heard it claimed that its because the brass is lousy with fundies, and its something they just don't want to touch (the Air Force Academy is in Colorado Springs). Who knows though.

It's basically rock-solid that some of these sightings are real things of some kind. The fact that these are credible then lends more credibility towards extremely similar incidents that have occurred for decades, and not just the US.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:05

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

cat botherer posted:

So they think they are advanced drone prototypes from China (or Russia). These have unknown propulsion, are capable of accelerating and decelerating from hypersonic speeds and diving into the water. But this is not a big deal for national security. It's fine to have multi-century technology gaps with your adversaries. Also, the Chinese have apparently had this technology since the 1940s.

vvv There's very credible evidence for these sightings - observed simultaneously by pilot eyesight, ship radar, and fighter radar. There's a point where you have to accept its something real, whatever it is.

I don't think they believe that China and Russia have had hypersonic amphibious drones since the 1940's. The stuff from the 40's doesn't have much hard evidence behind it. The declassified report says that they have no evidence that any UFO/UAP are extraterrestrial or that any of the reported "supersonic" or "spherical" reported sightings were made by a "foreign adversary."

They said they want to take it more seriously, apply rigorous scientific method to studying them, and reduce the stigma of people who report them. This is what they said:

quote:

The Pentagon�s top intelligence official on Tuesday vowed to apply �rigorous scientific analysis� to learning the origin of UFOs, in a rare public hearing on the highly secretive and controversial mystery.

�...[I]t is the Department�s contention that, by combining appropriately structured collected data with rigorous scientific analysis, any object that we encounter can likely be isolated, characterized, identified, and, if necessary, mitigated,� he said.

That includes whether the reports can be explained by potential technological breakthroughs by allies or adversaries, secret U.S. vehicles or �commercial platforms,� or �natural or other phenomena.�

quote:

The report released by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) and the Pentagon's UAP Task Force found no evidence to suggest the objects are extraterrestrial or from a foreign adversary � but the report also could not explain most of the objects.

Bray showed lawmakers a video of one UAP observed by a Navy pilot in 2021, a "spherical object" that "quickly passes by the cockpit of the aircraft."

"I do not have an explanation for what this specific object is," Bray said.

quote:

He also acknowledged the �cultural stigma� surrounding UFOs has hamstrung efforts to explain the phenomena by preventing witnesses from coming forward.

�We also understand that there has been a �cultural stigma� surrounding UAP reporting,� he said in his prepared testimony. �Our goal is to eliminate this stigma by fully incorporating our operators and mission personnel into a standardized data gathering process.

�We believe that making UAP reporting a mission imperative will be instrumental to this effort�s success,� he added, promising to work with other intelligence and law enforcement agencies and international allies.

The Dem chair wants to hold more hearings under oath about them. Not clear if the potential Republican chair wants to continue it or not if Republicans take the House.

quote:

Carson also indicated that more hearings are in the offing. �The last time Congress had a hearing on UAPs was a half century ago,� he said. �I hope that it does not take 50 years for Congress to hold another. Because transparency is desperately needed.�

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), who chairs the full House committee, also described the hearing as the opening of a new chapter in a long and often frustrating struggle for answers.

�UAP reports have been around for decades, and yet we haven�t had an orderly way for them to be reported � without stigma � and to be investigated,� he said in his prepared remarks. �That needs to change. When we spot something we don�t understand or can�t identify in our air space, it�s the job of those we entrust with our national security to investigate. And report back.�

Schiff added: �It is also the responsibility of ... government and this panel to share as much as we can with the American people � since excessive secrecy only breeds distrust and speculation.�

So far, most of the questions from Congress are just badgering them for not appointing someone to head the UAP investigative department yet because the deadline is in a month. Or getting them to confirm that they will hit certain deadlines and criteria for disclosing the additional videos this year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-hearing-congress-pentagon-watch-live-stream-today-2022-05-17/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=165495969
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/17/pentagon-dod-ufos-00032929

# ? May 17, 2022 15:07

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

DarkCrawler posted:

All Republicans have either fully bought into fascism or think it is okay for whatever pet idea they love to be reality. The former is a fascist, the latter is a fascist.

My neighbor who votes for fascists is a fascist and is my mortal enemy until he stops being one. And I have far more better uses for my time and far more better people to expend my energy on when it comes to political returns in particular.

Ways to "deplatform right-wing media sources" are definitely something I can't do or achieve. But I can move two non-voting people who are not fascist pieces of poo poo to vote in one hundredth of the time it would take to even begin to dream of converting a fascist piece of poo poo.

Voting hasn't yielded results. I'm not talking with Republicans because I want them to piss their vote away on a Democrat. I'm talking with them because the whole Democrat/Republican thing is a situation of controlled opposition that should be painfully apparent as Democrats aren't even pretending to resist Republicans any longer.

Not everyone who has checked a box next to an R is a fascist. Because there are people who vote but aren't that political. Some vote out of habit and some vote a certain way because their family has always voted that way. Some people believe they're both crooks but the Democrats are worse. Some people are military families and believe that Democrats hate the military.

I know its easier to adopt a hyper-reductionist "THEM OR US!" philosophy, but in the war against the ruling class you're just helping to further divide the working class and radicalize the right by embracing the hate-your-neighbor propaganda.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:12

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

mastershakeman posted:

Do raw numbers/ turnout not matter to you?

Raw numbers don't matter in terms of an election. With population growth, every single election regularly breaks records for raw vote totals. Vote percentage is what matters and turnout is reflected in the vote percentage shares.

Clinton only got 43% of the vote in 1992, but he also broke the record for most votes ever received by a Democratic candidate in history that year. Then, Al Gore broke it in 2000. Then, Kerry broke it in 2004, then Obama broke it 2008, and Biden broke it in 2020. Raw numbers don't tell you anything unless the voting population stays the exact same forever.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:12

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I don't think they believe that China and Russia have had hypersonic amphibious drones since the 1940's. The stuff from the 40's doesn't have much hard evidence behind it. The declassified report says that they have no evidence that any UFO/UAP are extraterrestrial or that any of the reported "supersonic" or "spherical" reported sightings were made by a "foreign adversary."

Thanks for the summary. Its encouraging that they are de-stigmatizing reporting, but they're still nowhere near open about this. Taken in isolation, the 1940s stuff has less credibility. But it has been continuous and worldwide - Phoenix lights, the Canary Island sightings, and on and on. The Soviets had quite a problem with them around their nuclear installations in the 1950s and 60s. In isolation, these are less credible, but they have become more credible in hindsight with the much more solid evidence now available (to the public at least) of extremely similar phenomena now.

My issue is what they are saying just doesn't jive with the evidence. I don't think its a grand conspiracy, but just a soft conspiracy of institutional bias.

cat botherer fucked around with this message at 15:17 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 15:13

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

cat botherer posted:

It's basically rock-solid that some of these sightings are real things of some kind. The fact that these are credible then lends more credibility towards extremely similar incidents that have occurred for decades, and not just the US.

Huh, well how bout that. Probably still going to turn out to be something mundane, but be interesting if they ever figure it out.

(100% going to be bigfoots testing advanced aircraft's to retake the planet.)

# ? May 17, 2022 15:14

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Just in case anyone needed a reminder that the supreme court is corrupt and needs to be expanded or smashed

https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1526550246699966466
https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/1526551615309758465

I was surprised to learn that the ruling only applied to repayment >$250,000 loans to one's campaigns, because that or under was already legal. We already know that politicians are bought off for far less.

So some of the blame should be placed on the congressional act that passed legislation legalizing smaller corruption in the first place.

And what with current inflation, $250,000 from 20 years ago would be worth $500,000 today. :wink:

# ? May 17, 2022 15:20

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

dr_rat posted:

Huh, well how bout that. Probably still going to turn out to be something mundane, but be interesting if they ever figure it out.

(100% going to be bigfoots testing advanced aircraft's to retake the planet.)

I was once a skeptic like you, but now I know the truth.

I really doubt its something mundane from the Navy reports. Seemingly intelligent control, observed in numerous modalities (infrared as well), and captured diving into the ocean complete with a splash.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7871671/ufo-video-water-san-diego-california-2019-omaha/

cat botherer fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 15:31

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Bishyaler posted:

Voting hasn't yielded results. I'm not talking with Republicans because I want them to piss their vote away on a Democrat. I'm talking with them because the whole Democrat/Republican thing is a situation of controlled opposition that should be painfully apparent as Democrats aren't even pretending to resist Republicans any longer.

If you're talking with Republicans in the hopes of having them realize the system that benefits them in every way and gives them more power, and drive them towards wanting to topple it all with the result you want, you're really wasting your time even more.

Far-right to center-right or center is, with incredible effort that could be used far more better, an imaginable outcome. Far-right to far-left/anarchist/socialist ally in the interest of toppling the present system (that again, has thus far served their interests as far as outcomes) is basically an unicorn.

Again, do what you want but literally everything written on political drift means that you're never going to win.

quote:

Not everyone who has checked a box next to an R is a fascist. Because there are people who vote but aren't that political. Some vote out of habit and some vote a certain way because their family has always voted that way. Some people believe they're both crooks but the Democrats are worse. Some people are military families and believe that Democrats hate the military.

All these people are fascists. Nobody is politically disengaged enough to miss what the GOP is about at the very minimum after Trump, and any study done on Republican voters clearly demonstrates that all of them support and believe in multiple horrific things that the GOP is currently driving for.

quote:

I know its easier to adopt a hyper-reductionist "THEM OR US!" philosophy, but in the war against the ruling class you're just helping to further divide the working class and radicalize the right by embracing the hate-your-neighbor propaganda.

I don't hate all my neighbors. I hate those who hate me, or everything or most things I think are important. It's not propaganda, it is the reality, and the idea that someone just stumbles into Donald Trump without believing in the things that make them a piece of poo poo enough to vote for Trump multiple times has been invalidated by every study done on Republicans multiple times. I can post a list if you're interested.

Someone being working class does not make them my ally. A rich or middle-class person who votes for the same party/things (I do live in a multi-party system with multiple leftist parties) I vote is my ally. There are other divisions beyond money.

The working class is already divided and the only way to win in America (and frankly in most places) is to exploit that division. You are a better person if you don't, but you will lose virtually every time.

And honestly, if you advocate a class war (perfectly fine) you probably shouldn't call ideological war propaganda when the other ideology is fascism, or being okay with fascism (so fascism).

If your neighbor is a Republican, not only should you hate them in order to most effectively defeat what they want, but they also fully deserve that hate.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 15:34

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

DarkCrawler posted:

Also "UAP"? Nah, gently caress that. I'll use UFO until the day I die.

Uet rear end Pussy

# ? May 17, 2022 15:46

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

DarkCrawler posted:

If you're talking with Republicans in the hopes of having them realize the system that benefits them in every way and gives them more power, and drive them towards wanting to topple it all with the result you want, you're really wasting your time even more.

Far-right to center-right or center is, with incredible effort that could be used far more better, an imaginable outcome. Far-right to far-left/anarchist/socialist ally in the interest of toppling the present system (that again, has thus far served their interests as far as outcomes) is basically an unicorn.

Again, do what you want but literally everything written on political drift means that you're never going to win.

All these people are fascists. Nobody is politically disengaged enough to miss what the GOP is about at the very minimum after Trump, and any study done on Republican voters clearly demonstrates that all of them support and believe in multiple horrific things that the GOP is currently driving for.

I don't hate all my neighbors. I hate those who hate me, or everything or most things I think are important. It's not propaganda, it is the reality, and the idea that someone just stumbles into Donald Trump without believing in the things that make them a piece of poo poo enough to vote for Trump multiple times has been invalidated by every study done on Republicans multiple times. I can post a list if you're interested.

Someone being working class does not make them my ally. A rich or middle-class person who votes for the same party/things (multi-party system) I vote is my ally. There are other divisions beyond money.

The working class is already divided and the only way to win in America (and frankly in most places) is to exploit that division. You are a better person if you don't, but you will lose virtually every time.

And honestly, if you advocate a class war (perfectly fine) you probably shouldn't call ideological war propaganda when the other ideology is fascism, or being okay with fascism (so fascism).

It doesn't "benefit them in every way and give them more power". Its allowing them some culture war wins but working class Republicans are every bit as economically hosed as working class Democrats.

Telling everyone who ever voted Republican that they're evil for voting incorrectly and othering them is a great way to push for a civil war. Is that your goal here? I can't imagine what else you'd be driving at by attempting to widen the gulf.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:51

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

DeadlyMuffin posted:

How do you know you aren't confusing cause and effect here?

A solid bipartisan majority of voters being conditional & situational about abortion approval could result in both parties supporting various restrictions & legislative conditions over the years.

You know, you're absolutely correct; there's no way to say that voters' ambivalence about abortion didn't arise organically, and had nothing to do with the so-called pro-choice political party using framing that it should be "rare" or that the party is a big tent open to everyone, even those denying bodily autonomy, or that one of their own as governor opened the door to state-level restrictions, or that the near-mythical "partial-birth" abortions needed to be banned by Congress.

By the same token, I'm sure that you'd agree that transphobic politicians have had no effect in shaping bigoted discourse by passing hateful laws such as those in Florida; the politicians are just following the organic will of the voters, right?

# ? May 17, 2022 15:53

Bel Shazar: Sep 14, 2012

Deleterious feedback loops exist. Y'all are both right.

# ? May 17, 2022 15:55

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

cat botherer posted:

So they think they are advanced drone prototypes from China (or Russia). These have unknown propulsion, are capable of accelerating and decelerating from hypersonic speeds and diving into the water. But this is not a big deal for national security. It's fine to have multi-century technology gaps with your adversaries. Also, the Chinese have apparently had this technology since the 1940s.

vvv There's very credible evidence for these sightings - observed simultaneously by pilot eyesight, ship radar, and fighter radar. There's been a lot of consistency too of different kinds (saucers, tic-tacs, black triangles). There's a point where you have to accept its something real, whatever it is. It's also not just the US. This stuff happens all over the world.

Also, since they also have been observed diving, UAP is the better nomenclature, because it is a wet-rear end phenomena.

Notably, from what I sort of recall about one incident (That is the incident that drove people in the government to stop making fun of reported sightings and pay attention. Along with the guy who had been actively targeting personnel trying to investigate this to get them shut down retiring or something like that around then.) involved at least one fighter pilot noticing something buzzing them at a distance while out on patrol.

Usually these sightings go unreported since...Well, it's usually a visual error on the part of the pilot. Plus, there's a stigma around reporting any sort of issues like that while up in the air.

Except this time they had a radar system on board that reached out to that range and could confirm a contact. Meaning that there were multiple typically reliable confirmations beyond the pilot making claims of a visual contact. And I think they even had a thermal or some other sort of mechanical contact too. This was coupled with the pilot having eyes on the object once he noticed it, and obviously his systems picking it up. Once they banked towards it to investigate the thing went absurdly fast and flew out of visual, radar, and all other scanning range.

Mind you, if it wasn't a prank by a dumbass pilot and whatever technical crew were on board the carrier attending to the jet then this thing left the jet just completely in the dust. So that's probably a bit concerning to the military and worth looking into on general principle alone. :stare:

TL;DR: When you've got multiple systems broadcasting a confirmed image of something simultaneously at a given location, alongside a visual confirmation, that's either a momentous technical fluke coupled with one heck of a visual misunderstanding of what they're seeing or there's something that we don't know about going on. Hence why we're having these investigations again.

Only this time we've got people giving way too much credence to UFO crackpots in their attempt to delegitimize any attempt to look into it. Y'know, like in this very thread, literally below this post. Because UFO crackpots being crazy justifies to them ignoring an actual set of mechanical systems confirming something buzzed a jet at one point and we've got no loving clue as of now as to what it is. And that's totally something we don't want to investigate just for the sake of safety and to keep crackpots on both sides of the aisle from getting stirred up. :rolleyes:

And yeah, given the relative speed of the fighter jet and the contact I recall whatever it is absurdly fast and can apparently turn on a dime to a degree that's damned near physically impossible for a manned craft without knocking out the pilot given our current understanding of physics.

So if China and Russia have ultra sonic drones we kind of need to know now before they start arming the things with nukes or some other absurdly destructive armament as the latest round of saber rattling. And if our detection systems are prone to making false contacts in tandem with the pilot we also need to know as well to rule out any future incidents causing a repeat of this mess.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:42 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 15:57

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

The UFO nutters are coming from within the thread!!

Also known as the ICPs (identifiable conspiracist posters).

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? May 17, 2022 15:57

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

Private Speech posted:

The UFO nutters are coming from within the thread!!

Also known as the ICPs (identifiable conspiracist posters).

They sent drones here to take our Faygo technology and learn about Juggalo culture.

# ? May 17, 2022 16:00

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

Gumball Gumption posted:

Most people believe in god, God did it is not a serious argument.

I think a bigger problem than the argument being moralism (after all, I argued the religious view in the thread!) is that it's plainly actually uninterested in a real moral argument. "There are evil people" and "we should hate more" are moral statements, but they are extremely basic and basically don't engage with any sort of greater moral implications at all.

What makes it more aggravating is: If someone isn't a believer, then why stick to the moral, purity-based arguments in the first place? If someone believes heavily in evil and wants to talk about good and evil and satanism, that's one thing. But if someone is an atheist, why shackle yourself? To quote G.K. Chesterton:

G.K. Chesterton, the Song of the Strange Ascetic posted:

If I had been a Heathen,
I�d have praised the purple vine,
My slaves should dig the vineyards,
And I would drink the wine.
But Higgins is a Heathen,
And his slaves grow lean and grey,
That he may drink some tepid milk
Exactly twice a day.

If I had been a Heathen,
I�d have crowned Neaera�s curls,
And filled my life with love affairs,
My house with dancing girls;
But Higgins is a Heathen,
And to lecture rooms is forced,
Where his aunts, who are not married,
Demand to be divorced.

If I had been a Heathen,
I�d have sent my armies forth,
And dragged behind my chariots
The Chieftains of the North.
But Higgins is a Heathen,
And he drives the dreary quill,
To lend the poor that funny cash
That makes them poorer still.

If I had been a Heathen,
I�d have piled my pyre on high,
And in a great red whirlwind
Gone roaring to the sky;
But Higgins is a Heathen,
And a richer man than I:
And they put him in an oven,
Just as if he were a pie.

Now who that runs can read it,
The riddle that I write,
Of why this poor old sinner,
Should sin without delight-
But I, I cannot read it
(Although I run and run),
Of them that do not have the faith,
And will not have the fun.

Although, I do want to point out an important argument that Gumball Gumption made in the original thread: If truly, every single conservative in America is a blood and soil fascist, then merely ostracizing them and Vote!ing are shamefully, shamefully weak moral responses to their existence and oppression. He stated it like this:

Gumball Gumption posted:

We're discussing not talking to conservatives, that's not justice. If you have plans to outlaw fascist parties and sympathies in America then yeah, let's do that. That would be an actual effective thing. Not talking to people isn't justice and isn't a political action. That article is about you a lot more than you seem to think but well, it also explains why you don't get that.

Let me just explain my position as clearly as I can. If there are no other options you should kill fascists so that they can't cause harm to others. If there is no other option and Republicans are on the brink of seizing absolute power you should kill them to protect yourself and others. This thread isn't about that. It's about not talking to them and calling that anti-fascism and it's just not. It's nothing that does nothing.

I made the same argument but from the Islamic perspective:

quote:

If we are dealing with actual, honest-to-God fascists who are trying to commit oppression on people, then it is our moral obligation to actually engage in struggle against them, no matter whether they are related to us or not. This doesn't mean ignoring them, we would actually have an obligation to stop them from oppressing people - ignoring it by just "de-FOOing" would itself be sinful.

quote:
Quran 4:135 posted: O YOU who have attained to faith! Be ever steadfast in upholding equity, bearing witness to the truth for the sake of God, even though it be against your own selves or your parents and kinsfolk.

quote:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say, �Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart � and that is the weakest of faith.��

If these family members are literally going out and oppressing people with their actions, then just ignoring them is wholly inadequate and represents a vast moral failure on our part to oppose right back with our actions. No one seems to be advocating physically beating their family members who vote for Romney or whatever, so either we aren't really considering voting Republican the same level as being an active proud-boy level fascist, or the people exhorting us that the best way to oppose this actions is just to silently "hate it in our hearts" - which means that either they are displaying the weakest level of faith, or no faith at all, in which case we can safely disregard their advice - we should be emulating the people with the best faith and conviction, not the weakest.

# ? May 17, 2022 16:02

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

Hey guys, what if we publish the names of judges that waive fines for poor people

https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1526578449200062464

That can't have any negative outcomes right?

# ? May 17, 2022 16:03

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

i hope the aliens are real and bring me space drugs

# ? May 17, 2022 16:05

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

World Famous W posted:

i hope the aliens are real and bring me space drugs

Only gonna happen if it's a lovely green rocket with no doors and a giant number 69 painted on it

# ? May 17, 2022 16:09

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

I hope the aliens conquer and subjugate us

# ? May 17, 2022 16:09

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Bishyaler posted:

It doesn't "benefit them in every way and give them more power". Its allowing them some culture war wins

That's what they want, as studies show us.

quote:

but working class Republicans are every bit as economically hosed as working class Democrats.

They value the culture war wins over that, as studies show us.

quote:

Telling everyone who ever voted Republican that they're evil for voting incorrectly and othering them is a great way to push for a civil war. Is that your goal here? I can't imagine what else you'd be driving at by attempting to widen the gulf.

You can go a few posts back to see what I am driving at. For the left to be effective and win politically under the current conditions. Obviously if you want to tear down the entire political system, you don't agree with that goal. But I'd like to see your vision of how you achieve that without electoral politics or without violence.

I also think it has been pretty exhaustively shown what is effective in American politics and that your approach does not seem to get any results.

You'll have a civil war either way if that doesn't happen and the anti-democratic entirety of U.S. political system is not reformed. U.S. is not immune to the same impulses of unfairness that have or had every other disenfranchised group starting some way worse poo poo morally then describing Republicans accurately.

quote:

Although, I do want to point out an important argument that Gumball Gumption made in the original thread: If truly, every single conservative in America is a blood and soil fascist, then merely ostracizing them and Vote!ing are shamefully, shamefully weak moral responses to their existence and oppression.

How about whipping up hatred and opposition towards them in every way you can? Because my argument never ended on "merely" ostracizing them, we never got beyond that point because people threw shitfits over the fascists they personally like or love being described accurately.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 17, 2022

# ? May 17, 2022 16:10

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

haveblue posted:

I hope the aliens conquer and subjugate us

Free probings for everyone! :science:

But yeah, the actual issue of why we're having the investigation on this is actually really interesting and goes way beyond some dumbass saying "lol aliens am I right?".

# ? May 17, 2022 16:23

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

DarkCrawler posted:

people threw shitfits over the fascists they personally like or love being described accurately.

I think people gently disagreed with your take on who in America, a place you do not live, is or is not fascist and are also put off by your "You are mad that I am more left than you" garbage you seem to post constantly for purely masturbatory purposes.

# ? May 17, 2022 16:34

Heck Yes! Loam!: Nov 15, 2004; a rich, friable soil containing a relatively equal mixture of sand and silt and a somewhat smaller proportion of clay.

Harold Fjord posted:

I think people gently disagreed with your take on who in America, a place you do not live, is or is not fascist and are also put off by your "You are mad that I am more left than you" garbage you seem to post constantly for purely masturbatory purposes.

Oh man, that must be annoying I say with no sense of irony whatsoever.

# ? May 17, 2022 16:36

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Archonex posted:

Free probings for everyone!

Speaking of free probes....

# ? May 17, 2022 16:37

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Turns out that the gunman who shot up the Laguna Woods church the other day is a 68-year-old Chinese-American who had a "decades-old vendetta against the Taiwanese people":

quote:

David W. Chou, a Chinese-born U.S. citizen, was nursing a decades-old grudge when he allegedly ambushed a lunch banquet hosted by the Irvine Taiwanese Presbyterian Church�killing a doctor who tried to stop him and wounding five others.

The mass shooting ended when church members tackled Chou, hog-tied him with an extension cord, and held him for police�who found a scene of utter chaos.

�You could tell that havoc had been wreaked in that space,� Orange County District Attorney Todd Spitzer said at a Monday press conference.

Authorities said the gunman, who had no known connection to the Laguna Woods church, planned the attack in advance, rimming the church�s social hall with Molotov cocktail-like devices and planting bags of additional ammunition magazines.

After the morning�s services ended and the luncheon began, Chou started securing the exits with chains and attempted to disable the locks with super-glue, they said.

Chou was allegedly carrying two handguns�both 9mm caliber semiautomatic pistols he bought legally in Las Vegas�when he turned the banquet room into a shooting gallery.

***

Chou emigrated from China many years ago and lived in numerous cities around the country, Orange County Undersheriff Jeff Hallock said at a press conference. He lived alone in Las Vegas; his wife and child reside in Taiwan.

Hallock said Chou had also lived in Taiwan in his youth as was �not well received,� which may have fueled his hatred of the country. Authorities were examining electronic materials and notes he left in his car to determine the exact motive.

The DA�s office and FBI were still contemplating whether the shooting could be charged as a hate crime. In addition to the counts of murder and attempted murder, Spitzer said he planned to file four counts of unlawful possession of explosives at an arraignment Tuesday. The charges can be punishable by life without parole or death.

***

The banquet was in honor of a former Irvine Taiwanese pastor who was returning to Taiwan and there were about 30 to 40 people present.

Authorities said they believe more people would have been shot or killed if church members had not restrained the gunman. A pastor reportedly hit him on the head with a chair, and then others used an extension cord to wrap him up.

ABC7 obtained photographs of the moment congregants restrained Chou after he allegedly began shooting. The images show five parishioners restraining him as he lies face-down on the ground, as well as a small knife he allegedly brought with him to the shooting.

�It�s just amazing,� Huang told NBC. �You know, we called our grandparents �a-gong� and �āmā,� and these a-gongs and āmās in their seventies and eighties are just amazing, amazing people, to have that clear sense of mind to take this guy down.�

# ? May 17, 2022 16:43

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# ? May 28, 2024 15:35

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Harold Fjord posted:

I think people gently disagreed with your take on who in America, a place you do not live, is or is not fascist and are also put off by your "You are mad that I am more left than you" garbage you seem to post constantly for purely masturbatory purposes.

I don't think people "gently disagreed" with anything, I am more left then anyone who coddles and excuses fascists by definition, and considering the claims made about America by those mad that a mean foreigner comments on things, it wasn't really my knowledge that was found wanting.

Does anyone not post here for a masturbatory purpose? Are there people who think this is an avenue of influence and change? All everyone is doing here is arguing why their view on things is superior, for whatever reason. Including you.

# ? May 17, 2022 16:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

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