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Pretty sure volunteering other people to be martyrs is not how that works.
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May 20, 2022 00:47
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I still want to know what Pelosi told AOC to get her to change her vote on giving tons of war funds to Israel
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May 20, 2022 00:49
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CommieGIR posted:Okay, at this point: Prove they could have done something. Their excuses is the very system that we are expecting them to work in, which is a very valid excuse. Then we’re right back to my original poinT. You can’t expect the Democrats to advance the causes their voters support. Whether that’s because they don’t want to or because they can’t doesn’t matter.
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May 20, 2022 00:53
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Koos Group posted:No, they can't post in this thread or other future iterations of USCE until their threadbans are reconsidered. If it seems as though a threadbanned user was posting here it's probably because their threadban was undone privately and there's no way to note such on someone's rap sheet, as may have been the case with PeterCat. have you considered just slapping a sixer on them with "unbanned from [thread]" as the reason? they're grown adults they can handle 6 hours of not posting for some recordkeeping
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May 20, 2022 00:59
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Discendo Vox posted:You get that it's a terrible look to do this and not provide a detailed explanation after several days of pretty visible non-moderation, and a longer period of highly inconsistent moderation? I wanted to leave that to users to figure out for the sake of the posters' dignity, but in the interest of transparency: How are u trolled too much. While I respect his trolling in the China thread, doing it here is very much the he's already dead Simpsons meme. Mellow Seas and Harold Fjord both had problems with lashing out when losing their tempers, as well as excessive reports. VitalSigns, though he was doing better in the last month or two, had a habit of simply posting too much which led to a general tendency of not contributing much material in each post. More info is contained in all the users' rap sheets. As I said before, threadbans aren't based on any formula for how many or severe of offenses someone has committed, but rather how many problems they cause for discussion vs. how much original, uncommonly known, clever, well-sourced, or otherwise interesting material they add to it. I don't think any of the threadbanned users are incapable of good posting, but they would need to engage in self-examination such as prayer or meditation, as well as a poster training regimen, before coming back. Iamgoofball posted:have you considered just slapping a sixer on them with "unbanned from [thread]" as the reason? they're grown adults they can handle 6 hours of not posting for some recordkeeping Yes, I didn't want to clutter up rap sheets but if it's causing this much confusion it might be the best option.
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May 20, 2022 01:02
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If the question is "how can we change things in the american political system in time to avert armageddon", the answer, at this point, is very obviously "nothing". Enjoy your summer, because the writing is on the wall, and poo poo is gonna go sour sooner rather than later. The correct moral response is to embrace despair, and then persist regardless. It's valid and necessary to have arguments about best to proceed in these conditions, but if you're laboring with the hope that anything we do will be meaningful on a larger scale, you're laboring under a delusion, and you are inevitably going to break your own heart. Engage in local activism, and stick with it until everything explodes.
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May 20, 2022 01:20
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Willa Rogers posted:Indiana, Florida, Iowa and Ohio all voted for a Democratic president a mere 14 years ago. West Virginia was reliably Democratic over most of my lifetime. I'm generally with you on that, but apart from overall party realignment, one factor against is that back then the national parties were just way less ideologically aligned than they are today, and political leadership was more driven by local machines out of smoke-filled rooms, with their own character varying greatly place to place. Conservative Dems and liberal Republicans were influential nationwide well into the 1990s. The national party (either side), was a patronage network of mutual backscratching that tolerated a lot of dissent and compromise. Like, I know that's exactly what people complain about today, but we just have a pale reflection of those days. Allegiances were also less nationalized: federal votes often followed state/regional lines no matter which party you were in rather than today's urban/rural divide that also determines your party membership. Not saying it can't be done: Dems and left-leaning voters desperately need to treat state and local control as seriously as conservatives do. That matters more than whether they turn out for a presidential election every four years. Just that clawing back red districts will take different strategies, work in different places, and get different results than back then, because they're different voters that will accept different coalitions.
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May 20, 2022 01:23
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Koos Group posted:How are u trolled too much. While I respect his trolling in the China thread, doing it here is very much the he's already dead Simpsons meme. Please do not endorse trolling in the forum explicitly intended for good faith discussion. We are literally told to report people we suspect are trolling rather than engage with them. Think about what it conveys to everyone when you tell us you respect people's deliberate violation of the rules, and what it means for expectations about conduct and moderation across the subforum.
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May 20, 2022 01:30
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Discendo Vox posted:Please do not endorse trolling in the forum explicitly intended for good faith discussion. We are literally told to report people we suspect are trolling rather than engage with them. Think about what it conveys to everyone when you tell us you respect people's deliberate violation of the rules, and what it means for expectations about conduct and moderation across the subforum. I feel like 'it better be very funny or very sophisticated or you will catch a probe' has been the de facto standard for as long as I've been reading.
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May 20, 2022 01:44
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Iamgoofball posted:have you considered just slapping a sixer on them with "unbanned from [thread]" as the reason? they're grown adults they can handle 6 hours of not posting for some recordkeeping An underappreciated stratagem imo, especially if you issue the sixer at 3am. assuming you do the due diligence rather than issuing the low inconvenience probation to a Brit just as they're getting their posting day started 
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May 20, 2022 01:46
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This is (largely) a group of people who spend their time following, leaning about, and discussing significant events in the US, and what's more probably sincerely committed to a better future... somehow. It is also largely a "leftist" place in that republican/conservative ideology is not championed. My "question" is twofold. When (as we all acknowledge things getting worse), will posting about a sort of meta-understanding of attitudes and actions required not be an important topic in current events discussion? Why, as a group of people bending ourselves towards understanding a path forward, do we devolve into constant bickering and tribalism? People say posting isn't praxis and our effort posts here are not activism, but I disagree. Discussing ideas and building coalitions is our job as living humans being that its the only way forward. This should be the ideal place to practice (aside from the immunity to fists). I've followed this thread in its various forms for years, and it's absolutely informed and helped change my political views. Is denying the potential of informed discussions some sort of self defense against showing up on the wrong side of a DHS report? I heard of a media disinformation panel shutting down before they even met, due to the head backing out. I had a little fantasy that they saw so much compelling argument that our world is wrong and makes reasonable/necessary action "radical" by design, that they bailed due to a crisis of conscience. This is a valuable place whether you want to learn, or just want to earnestly process the calamity of our trajectory without being (utterly, at least) gaslit into toxic optimism or establishment sunk-cost fallacy.
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May 20, 2022 01:53
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Bel Shazar posted:I feel like 'it better be very funny or very sophisticated or you will catch a probe' has been the de facto standard for as long as I've been reading. I and every one else who actually wants to be able to discuss things would like to see a lot less de facto and a lot more de jure. The rules exist. They should be enforced, rather than ad hoc reactive purges determined by how funny a mod finds a given incident of sabotaging discussion. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 01:54
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TipTow posted:Oklahoma had among the highest % of voters go for Debs in 1920. The culture in Oklahoma hasn’t changed that much in a century. Most of those socialists were also extremely religious. Sounds like the Dems have to actually offer poo poo people want to get elected. Ah, yes, Eugene Debs, who boldly won 5% of the vote in Oklahoma. What a triumph for socialism in America's Heartland.
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May 20, 2022 01:56
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Discendo Vox posted:I and every one else who actually wants to be able to discuss things would like to see a lot less de facto and a lot more de jure. The rules exist. They should be enforced, rather than ad hoc reactive purges determined by how funny a mod finds a given incident of sabotaging discussion.
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May 20, 2022 02:00
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Jaxyon posted:Pretty sure volunteering other people to be martyrs is not how that works. I'm sorry I expect things from my political leaders.
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May 20, 2022 02:06
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Sanguinia posted:Ah, yes, Eugene Debs, who boldly won 5% of the vote in Oklahoma. What a triumph for socialism in America's Heartland. Which, as I said, was among the best returns for him in the nation. Do you have a point to make, or merely the snarky white noise? My larger point is writing off places like Oklahoma as "lost causes" in favor of focusing on swing/battleground states is utterly pointless since that's the exact strategy that has us where we are. "Elect more Democrats!" when the filibuster can't be overcome. There's only so many "blue" and "battleground" states; if liberals are going to write off Oklahoma et al. then they've already conceded the permanent majority to the Republicans as there aren't enough states to win. And as far as the ability to swing Oklahoma, it's been among the most left-leaning states in the country at one point. The religiosity and anti-establishmentarianism that are deeply embedded in Oklahoma culture can be harnessed by the left, or the Democrats if they cared or tried.
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May 20, 2022 02:07
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Discendo Vox posted:I and every one else who actually wants to be able to discuss things would like to see a lot less de facto and a lot more de jure. The rules exist. They should be enforced, rather than ad hoc reactive purges determined by how funny a mod finds a given incident of sabotaging discussion. Without taking a stance here, and with no disrespect to anyone involved, but isn't there, like, a QCS thread or something where y'all could be hashing this out? It's a major disruption itself, at this point, and ~forums drama~ does not have a shitload to do with US politics.
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May 20, 2022 02:08
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UCS Hellmaker posted:It's more funny that the same poo poo that was an issue before and was supposed to be sent to cccc is back just as bad as ever and half the time current events aren't even talked about here, just endless ranting about how Dems suck I've been popping in here again with the midterm primaries and elections coming up. I used to be what I'd describe as a regular poster here and I'd probably drop by a lot more often if that wasn't seemingly always the dominant topic or if there wasn't seemingly some tense blowup that I don't feel like getting caught in the middle of happening every time I try to read the thread, so that it felt I guess "safe" to start talking about current events in the United States without somebody going on the warpath over what they imagined I was thinking or saying. I can take the heat in a disagreement on politics, but I'm also aware that if it seems like some people are in the midst of flipping their poo poo in the thread then odds are no matter what anyone says they're going to get caught up in the crossfire and told that they're "Kramering into the thread", so why bother posting really. That's the main problem the iterations of this thread have always kind of had to me.
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May 20, 2022 02:12
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:Without taking a stance here, and with no disrespect to anyone involved, but isn't there, like, a QCS thread or something where y'all could be hashing this out? It's a major disruption itself, at this point, and ~forums drama~ does not have a shitload to do with US politics. Yes, it might be better to PM me, go to QCS, or wait for the next D&D feedback thread at this point. How are u has also just informed me that he wasn't trolling in the China thread.
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May 20, 2022 02:14
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TipTow posted:And as far as the ability to swing Oklahoma, it's been among the most left-leaning states in the country at one point. In the election you're citing as proof that Oklahoma isn't a lost cause the electorate voted for Harding/Coolidge and their "return to normalcy," explicitly anti-progressivist and nativist messaging by an absolute majority. Even if every Debs vote had gone for the Cox/Roosevelt ticket, which while not exactly great on economic issues overall at least had a pro-organized labor bent in opposition to Harding picking Coolidge for the fame he earned breaking a police union strike in Boston, they STILL would have lost. That's your metric for "Among The Most Left Leaning States?" Sanguinia fucked around with this message at 02:37 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 02:31
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:Without taking a stance here, and with no disrespect to anyone involved, but isn't there, like, a QCS thread or something where y'all could be hashing this out? Part of the problem is that QCS threads that have even the slightest bit to do with D&D or C-SPAM almost inevitably turn into slapfights between D&D and C-SPAM. In addition to that, QCS has a group of regulars who really love white noise posting. I can very much understand why people would want to have the discussion here and now instead of having it moved to QCS where things can go downhill very quickly.
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May 20, 2022 02:38
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Sanguinia posted:In the election you're citing as proof that Oklahoma isn't a lost cause the electorate voted for Harding/Coolidge and their "return to normalcy," explicitly anti-progressivist and nativist messaging by an absolute majority. Even if every Debs vote had gone for the Cox/Roosevelt ticket, which while not exactly great on economic issues overall at least had a pro-organized labor bent in opposition to Harding picking Coolidge for the fame he earned breaking a police union strike in Boston, they STILL would have lost. That's your metric for "Among The Most Left Leaning States?" https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/socialist-revolution-oklahoma-crushed-green-corn-rebellion-180973073/ quote:It might surprise many who call themselves socialists today, including members of Congress, that the heartland of American socialism was once rural Oklahoma. In 1915, there were more registered Socialist Party members in Oklahoma than in New York, which had seven times the population and a much stronger tradition of left-wing politics. Oklahoma socialists built a statewide movement, but won the most converts in the southeastern counties, where a small elite of predominantly white landowners had established a cotton fiefdom in the old Indian Territory. They rented out most of their land to tenant farmers, black and white, who had migrated to Oklahoma from Texas, Arkansas and the Deep South, dreaming of opportunity on a new frontier. https://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=SO001 https://jacobinmag.com/2021/08/okla...class-union-wcu Criticize the evidence I presented, but the declaration that Oklahoma was once among the most left-leaning states is generally considered true.
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May 20, 2022 02:44
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:If the question is "how can we change things in the american political system in time to avert armageddon", the answer, at this point, is very obviously "nothing". Enjoy your summer, because the writing is on the wall, and poo poo is gonna go sour sooner rather than later. The correct moral response is to embrace despair, and then persist regardless. The way I've been describing it is: "You're on a train, the bridge is out, the brakes are blown, but the bar car is still open"
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May 20, 2022 02:58
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Koos Group posted:Yes, it might be better to PM me, go to QCS, or wait for the next D&D feedback thread at this point. How are u has also just informed me that he wasn't trolling in the China thread. Between this whole thing and the 36 hour quarterly feedback thread if I had any doubts about you taking the piss they're gone.
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May 20, 2022 03:08
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Elephant Ambush posted:I still want to know what Pelosi told AOC to get her to change her vote on giving tons of war funds to Israel Probably something like "this is going to happen whether you like it or not, but if you go against this then you'll never get what you want again, and if you go with this then you will have opportunities elsewhere to push your agenda. Be pragmatic."
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May 20, 2022 03:10
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Probably something like "this is going to happen whether you like it or not, but if you go against this then you'll never get what you want again, and if you go with this then you will have opportunities elsewhere to push your agenda. Be pragmatic." Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what that corrupt radghoul freak said. Are you a traveler from the West Wing dimension?
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May 20, 2022 03:23
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WorkerThread posted:Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what that corrupt radghoul freak said. Are you a traveler from the West Wing dimension? What's a radghoul?
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May 20, 2022 03:27
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Koos Group posted:What's a radghoul? irradiated cannibal human subspecies in the Fallout universe. smh, Koos, do you even play video games
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May 20, 2022 03:31
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Koos Group posted:What's a radghoul? 
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May 20, 2022 03:33
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The bedrock problem with Democrats isn't being bad at outreach, or caving to Republicans with a speed that borders on collusion, or making enormous, unspeakably obvious strategic mistakes that should disqualify them from ever working in politics. The bedrock problem with Democrats is that they have terrible policies, which grow more terrible by the day, and which have left them with nothing meaningful to offer. Nothing. They've made it clear that any accidentally progressive or useful positions they claim to hold are not important--certainly not important enough to actually do something about--and if it isn't fundraising or crushing the left wing of their own party they might as well be the Keystone Kops. They are an impotent, incompetent joke, and the only reasons they've survived as a party is inertia and "not Republicans". I'm not just ranting here, although it is very thirst-quenching. If the Democrats don't want to ratfuck themselves into the history books, they need to actually change what they're offering, and that starts internally. They can phone bank and robotext as much as they want, focus just on swing states, or not just focus on swing states, or any other goddamn thing--but people don't vote without a reason, and the Democrats aren't giving them one. There is no amount of outreach that will make up for the fact that they are transparently full of poo poo and out of touch. They need to steer left, because their "everything is fine" strategy has done nothing but push this country right, because it is not a compelling argument, because even the most uninformed dipshit with his head in the sand can recognize that everything is incredibly not fine. Obama built an extremely effective campaigning machine, but he was also selling something that people actually wanted: "Change". People were suffering and they needed that to change. The rhetoric turned out to be empty, but it was at least what needed to be said. And the Democrats seem to have instantly forgotten that, because, uh... https://twitter.com/joshshapiropa/status/1527370685672108041 That doesn't sound like change to me. That doesn't sound like a winning campaign. Democrats can either acknowledge that poo poo needs to improve, or they can get buried alive in the grave they keep digging themselves. And in case I haven't made my stance on this clear, I don't see them putting down the shovels any time soon. okay, namaste
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May 20, 2022 03:33
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TipTow posted:Which, as I said, was among the best returns for him in the nation. Do you have a point to make, or merely the snarky white noise? As an Oklahoma resident, I'd love to believe you, but here's the problem as I see it: Oklahomans could have someone tell them plainly and to their faces that they are being ripped off and manipulated by the Republicans, and they still wouldn't vote for that person because if they've got a D behind their name, they're part of the "woke radical mob". And if the letter behind the name is an I or maybe even an S, well that's no better, because they're probably still not a good Conservative Christian (tm) and everybody knows that socialism has something to do with CRT. (They're not sure what, but they've heard it's bad) Basically, the only way we're pulling states like Oklahoma back from this is doing the long, slow, PAINFUL work of convincing people that government can be good, actually, and spending money on things other than law enforcement is beneficial, that the oil and gas industry is not their friend, and that grifters who steal from the public coffers should be bounced out on their ears. But that's gonna be a lot of work.
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May 20, 2022 03:40
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TipTow posted:Criticize the evidence I presented, but the declaration that Oklahoma was once among the most left-leaning states is generally considered true. Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 13:12 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 03:43
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In a lot of red states at this point, even and especially ones that were competitive less than a decade ago, there's just nothing. Nobody to talk to, nobody to help. The Party decided that they were consolidating around safe districts like 10 years ago and now we're at where we're at. I'm in one of them, the unsafe districts that are blue in a red state. I like a lot of my local Dems, they're very good people laboring hopelessly against the inevitable. I can vote for them and it's the same thing as not voting for them. The only Dems who come here are people like Bernie, who came to where I'm at to talk to me directly. I look forward to national figuring this out, which is their job, so that I may be driven to vote for nation candidates, which is in their perception my job. Until they make my national level vote count I'll be leaving it blank while filling out local ones. I understand a bill was put forward recently to do this? They should make that law imho
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May 20, 2022 03:45
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Koos Group posted:How are u trolled too much. While I respect his trolling in the China thread, doing it here is very much the he's already dead Simpsons meme. Koos Group posted:How are u has also just informed me that he wasn't trolling in the China thread. Maybe there should be a rule added that if posters are expected to interpret posts in good faith, mods/admins should follow suit as well 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 04:20 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 03:54
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TipTow posted:Which, as I said, was among the best returns for him in the nation. Do you have a point to make, or merely the snarky white noise? How is the left going to harness Oklahoman religiosity for any of its causes seeing as most strains of religion there are deeply conservative Christianity, as opposed to idk. Unitarian Universalist or Liberation theology Catholic?
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May 20, 2022 03:59
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Fighting Trousers posted:Basically, the only way we're pulling states like Oklahoma back from this is doing the long, slow, PAINFUL work of convincing people that government can be good, actually, and spending money on things other than law enforcement is beneficial, that the oil and gas industry is not their friend, and that grifters who steal from the public coffers should be bounced out on their ears. But that's gonna be a lot of work. I don't disagree at all. I'm not going to pretend that Oklahoma is ready to elect country-fried Lenin or whatever in the next election, I just take umbrage at attitudes like haveblue posted:Oklahoma is not fixable, focus on swing states and the federal level That treats me and my community as expendable, something to be written off. Left wing politics can win here. Like Epic High Five, Bernie actually did some campaigning, and decidedly won in 2016. As trite as it may be we legalized medical marijuana in a citizen-initiated referendum that saw higher turnout than the preceding gubernatorial election. It'll take resources and energy, but people around here will come out and vote for things if they're offered things worth voting for. In any event, treating some states as hopeless lost causes, again, will doom Democrats on a national level. It may already have. DarkCrawler posted:How is the left going to harness Oklahoman religiosity for any of its causes seeing as most strains of religion there are deeply conservative Christianity, as opposed to idk. Unitarian Universalist or Liberation theology Catholic? This one is tricky, other than to say the earlier era of socialism in Oklahoma was rooted in Christianity. I don't have a good answer, other than to say I don't think it's impossible.
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May 20, 2022 04:27
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DarkCrawler posted:How is the left going to harness Oklahoman religiosity for any of its causes seeing as most strains of religion there are deeply conservative Christianity, as opposed to idk. Unitarian Universalist or Liberation theology Catholic? You can pair "progressive/leftist" politics with a sort of theologically unadventurous mainline Protestantism. Like MLK or William Jennings Bryan, or the whole Social Gospel movement. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 20, 2022 |
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May 20, 2022 04:29
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DarkCrawler posted:How is the left going to harness Oklahoman religiosity for any of its causes seeing as most strains of religion there are deeply conservative Christianity, as opposed to idk. Unitarian Universalist or Liberation theology Catholic? aren't you literally Finnish what the poo poo do you know about Oklahoman racial and religious demographics
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May 20, 2022 04:40
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here are my thoughts about the political situation in Karelia:
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May 20, 2022 04:41
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GreyjoyBastard posted:here are my thoughts about the political situation in Karelia: Tensions are high because muikku supplies are low.
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