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Beast Pussy posted:I would like to ask a question, in good faith, but I am worried that I am stupid. So I will ask, and you may ridicule me as long as someone can explain it. The "solution" isn't actually supposed to work, whether it's the resurrection of JFK or the 20-year secret plans of Donald Trump or the airdrops of alien space gold. It's never supposed to come and nobody thinks it will - the hope is that eventually some "righteous soul" gets so fed up over the obvious problems with our once-great country not being solved that they decide to take matters into their own hands. And since everybody lying about this solution isn't openly advocating for violence, they'll just weeble weeble when anybody suggests that "righteous soul" shared an awful lot of their beliefs. It's been called "stochastic terrorism". And as long as you don't solve the problem - as long as evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a poo poo-eating grin, or whatever the local upshot of that is, such as a trans person daring to post a photo to the Internet - you can't just trot out solution artifacts and expect anybody to engage with them.
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May 25, 2022 20:39
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Arming teachers will just kill more children minorities.
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May 25, 2022 20:39
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I read somewhere that both both of the officers who first encountered the shooter were shot. Was this true?
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May 25, 2022 20:40
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papa horny michael posted:I read somewhere that both both of the officers who first encountered the shooter were shot. Was this true? Read the previous page
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May 25, 2022 20:44
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Ted Cruz’s buddy just got sentenced https://twitter.com/annadarlingtv/status/1529547107916455936?s=21&t=6NngGMq-Kvg57mtbqykQaQ
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May 25, 2022 20:45
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CuddleCryptid posted:The issue with this is that finding an ID and such is to make sure that the shooter doesn't try and escape by blending in with the evacuees, it's to ensure that the shooter is arrested after they have already stopped shooting. In this case all they had to do was find the guy with the gun and problem solved. Has this ever happened? Has there been a rampage style mass shooting that ended this way?
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May 25, 2022 20:47
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Fighting Trousers posted:Has this ever happened? Has there been a rampage style mass shooting that ended this way? Even if there were, how would police ID some rando at a school the person doesn't attend?
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May 25, 2022 20:48
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Fighting Trousers posted:Has this ever happened? Has there been a rampage style mass shooting that ended this way? IIRC the Parkland shooter tried to blend in with escaping kids and was recognized that way
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May 25, 2022 20:50
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Dietrich posted:This is the way. Make them pick between besmirching police officers or admitting they are not the solution by saying they did their best and it didn't help. Don't give them the "highground" in their mind by ripping on police. when, in your lifetime, has conceding a point to the right wing in the hopes of getting them to acknowledge their hypocrisy worked out in your favor. has it happened even once. what has happened here is the Biden administration's dream scenario: a fully funded and energized police department, armed to the teeth, was on site to stop a terrible crime in process. and nineteen children are dead. the money you are supporting giving to the police is not making the republicans support you, and it is not saving children's lives. what purpose does it serve.
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May 25, 2022 20:54
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I'm sure they'd be really owned but that's pretty much exactly the point of all the insane stuff. They want you to argue about the OK hand sign, or post about how Q-Anon isn't real instead of confronting their actual beliefs. I know you're right about that, but why aren't we hitting them everywhere? Obviously the best part about modern politics is you can lie and nothing matters. So let's. Let's use all their tactics. Because they're working. And it can't be because they are smarter. So either they actually are working under some divine imperative, or they are beatable. I'm tired of watching the world make no sense and everyone just go along with it.
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May 25, 2022 20:58
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:when, in your lifetime, has conceding a point to the right wing in the hopes of getting them to acknowledge their hypocrisy worked out in your favor. I don't know if this is a colossal bad take or if you misquoting the actual post you wanted to respond to.
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May 25, 2022 21:00
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Beast Pussy posted:I know you're right about that, but why aren't we hitting them everywhere? the very simple reason is that they are working within a political party and media infrastructure that shares their goals, and we are working with a political party and media infrastructure that actively opposes ours. they are absolutely beatable, but to beat them would require the existence of a political party that wanted to beat them. the democrats are not this party.
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May 25, 2022 21:01
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Beast Pussy posted:I know you're right about that, but why aren't we hitting them everywhere? The problem is those tactics only work if you are okay with what they involve. It is much easier to trick someone who thinks they are wise than someone who knows they are foolish.
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May 25, 2022 21:03
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CmdrRiker posted:I don't know if this is a colossal bad take or if you misquoting the actual post you wanted to respond to. saying "they did their best and it didn't help" is yet another concession to the right wing. surely, Our Brave Boys In Blue did all that they could, because who wouldn't! they did not do their best. they did what cops always do when threatened: they ran and hid and hoped someone else would fix the problem. there is no benefit in refusing to impugn the honor of american police officers in the hopes this will make republicans play nice with you. do not bother with it.
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May 25, 2022 21:05
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Beast Pussy posted:I know you're right about that, but why aren't we hitting them everywhere? The way to push back is building a world where there isn't a place for conspiracy to move in and take advantage of people's fear and suffering. Conspiracy is an answer when there are no other answers you trust. Trying to attack them inside of their own logic just validates it.
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May 25, 2022 21:07
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:saying "they did their best and it didn't help" is yet another concession to the right wing. surely, Our Brave Boys In Blue did all that they could, because who wouldn't! I don't know where you got this "they did their best" business. It is merely failing to demonstrate the efficacy of the firearms in the hands of the police when mass shootings occur. If you somehow read that as patting cops on the back then I really don't know where to take the conversation from here because surely my skills and wherewithal are limited in the ability to get my ideas accurately transmitted into your brain.
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May 25, 2022 21:11
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Madkal posted:I work at a college and we did an active shooter drills few years back. I remember the guy telling us what to do saying that even if the police arrive it doesn't mean that the event is over. They will wait to get a layout of the buildings, a possible ID of the shooter (at least physical description) and such. Now this is a college where everyone is old enough to look like a potential suspect, and I am not trying to defend the police in this case, but cops are trained not to go into an active shooter situation guns blazing until they have a plan. Unfortunately the time it takes to have that plan means people are still at a greater risk. The solution to this problem is a bit more nuanced than having the options be either do nothing because all cops are lazy cowards and go in immediately and hope for the best because we think all cops should be superheroes. Police regularly charge into active shooter situations and more often create them without a plan. Plans are for when they're worried they might be shot at, not other people getting shot.
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May 25, 2022 21:11
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papa horny michael posted:I read somewhere that both both of the officers who first encountered the shooter were shot. Was this true? Yes they were. Yet most people in this ignoring this fact because it doesn't fit the narrative they want. I'm hardly the biggest fan of the police, but people saying "the cops should have done more to prevent the murderer from entering the school" when the initial officers were shooting at him and they both ended up getting shot is strange. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:17 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:15
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Glazius posted:The "solution" isn't actually supposed to work, whether it's the resurrection of JFK or the 20-year secret plans of Donald Trump or the airdrops of alien space gold. It's never supposed to come and nobody thinks it will - the hope is that eventually some "righteous soul" gets so fed up over the obvious problems with our once-great country not being solved that they decide to take matters into their own hands. This is crushing. How come the right is both running as the dominant political party and also the insurgency? Where are the extremists on the other side? When is enough too much? Why is no one doing anything? At least if it was the disenfranchised commiting senseless acts of violence constantly, I could understand. I could get why someone would be desperate, but how is it the same side running both sides of this game?
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May 25, 2022 21:16
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punk rebel ecks posted:Yes they were. Yet most people in this ignoring this fact because it doesn't fit the narrative they want.
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May 25, 2022 21:16
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cat botherer posted:It sounds like having the cops there wasn't effective, then. I don't want police in schools. No.
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May 25, 2022 21:17
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CmdrRiker posted:I don't know where you got this "they did their best" business. It is merely failing to demonstrate the efficacy of the firearms in the hands of the police when mass shootings occur. If you somehow read that as patting cops on the back then I really don't know where to take the conversation from here because surely my skills and wherewithal are limited in the ability to get my ideas accurately transmitted into your brain. quote:Don't give them the "highground" in their mind by ripping on police. the police failed. miserably. in the way that they always fail when confronted with an event like this. refusing to acknowledge that, out of the hopes that it will make republicans have some cognitive dissonance about why they're still defending this, is a pointless concession to the delusion that if only we fund the police a little better, surely they'll get the -next- one. giving this ground will earn you no goodwill from republicans. it will not protect children. it does not describe reality. what purpose does it serve.
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May 25, 2022 21:17
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https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1529529909571461121 Looks like the pro-police consent manufacturing is in full swing now. punk rebel ecks posted:I don't want police in schools. No. cat botherer fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:19
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cat botherer posted:It sounds like having the cops there wasn't effective, then. Agreed. Did I miss someone in the thread saying they were?
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May 25, 2022 21:19
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Beast Pussy posted:This is crushing. Generally it is not helpful to have extremists, much as spreading and weaponizing conspiracy isn't beneficial. The goal is to anchor policies in reality. Beast Pussy posted:When is enough too much? Why is no one doing anything? Beast Pussy posted:At least if it was the disenfranchised commiting senseless acts of violence constantly, I could understand. I could get why someone would be desperate, but how is it the same side running both sides of this game? It's not a game. The whole point is to reduce senseless acts of violence. It's not in fact good to have "our side", however you'd want to construct that, committing senseless acts of violence. It is, in fact, better to define your side by its lack of senseless violence.
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May 25, 2022 21:21
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Jaxyon posted:Agreed. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 25, 2022 21:24
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Police departments nationwide will need more money for psychological training to continue advancing after being shot. I think current training is to disengage.
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May 25, 2022 21:25
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the police failed. miserably. in the way that they always fail when confronted with an event like this. Those are not my words so I cannot own them, and though that is not the takeaway I got from that post, I can see where you are coming from. Jaxyon posted:Agreed. Nope, just tons of smug white noise posts that are convoluting the narrative in play. CmdrRiker fucked around with this message at 21:29 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:25
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We can't do anything about guns! Think about the 10% of Republican voters we are trying to swing!!!
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May 25, 2022 21:27
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cat botherer posted:Ok? So they kind of didn't do there loving jobs well, so what's the point in getting upset over people paying insufficient attention to the poor cops with non-life-threatening injuries? Because it's unsurprising that the gunman with rifles (who probably caught them by surprise) would heavily out arm two people with pistols? People keep saying "police were too scared to do anything" when they clearly did do something, shot at the shooter. Police at schools to prevent school shootings was always a LOLtacular "solution" for the very reason this shooting demonstrates, that there is no need to leave the subtext "police are cowards, if only they who were willing to fight then the shooter would be stopped", is dumb because you can't constantly be vigilant for events like this. The cops failed in taking down the shooter because it's a failed solution from the get go. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:27
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Discendo Vox posted:Generally it is not helpful to have extremists, much as spreading and weaponizing conspiracy isn't beneficial. The goal is to anchor policies in reality. Gandhi once said "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." looking at the events here, and the reactions to them from democratic elected officials, ask yourself which better describes the behavior you see. are people with the power to change the world for the better judiciously refusing to act, due to the potential costs of action? or are impotent functionaries attempting to dress their impotence up as 'doing the best that can be done.'
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May 25, 2022 21:31
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cat botherer posted:I see some people defending their ineffectiveness. Oh cool quote them because they're not effective, lets both argue with them.
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May 25, 2022 21:35
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The Onion finally found a way to take their infamous mass shooting article to the next level. Scroll down the home page. https://www.theonion.com/ Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Onion finally found a way to make their infamous mass shooting article to the next level. Holy gently caress! *chef kiss*
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May 25, 2022 21:40
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Onion finally found a way to make their infamous mass shooting article to the next level. https://www.theonion.com/report-uvalde-gunman-had-accomplices-as-far-as-washing-1848976025 quote:UVALDE, TX—Uncovering shocking new details about the Robb Elementary School shooting, FBI agents told reporters Wednesday that alleged gunman Salvador Ramos had accomplices as far away as Washington, D.C. “We have reason to believe this wasn’t a ‘lone wolf’ incident, but rather a coordinated attack carried out with the assistance of 535 individuals in the D.C. metropolitan area,” said agency spokesperson Adriana Yaroma, who noted that the case was now being investigated as a federal crime, as the co-conspirators had crossed the borders of every U.S. state. “This was a highly sophisticated operation backed by millions of dollars, and it appears to have been in the works for decades. We have evidence these men and women provided the shooter with cover as well as access to the very guns used to perpetrate the murders. If it weren’t for the cooperation of these incredibly sick individuals, the 21 victims would still be with us today.” At press time, the accomplices had reportedly fled the country before they could be brought in for questioning.
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May 25, 2022 21:41
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punk rebel ecks posted:Because it's unsurprising that the gunman with rifles (who probably caught them by surprise) would heavily out arm two people with pistols? People keep saying "police were too scared to do anything" when they clearly did do something, shot at the shooter. It comes back to the idea that uniformed cops are both necessary so that you know who is a cop and who isn't and also absolute poo poo at stopping random killings because *who do you shoot first in a spree killing*? Cops are trained to be a hammer that follows order and goes in with a plan to shoot anyone who looks threatening. Otherwise they're just some dude. They panic, they gently caress up, they fail to do their jobs when they are surprised. I dont think anyone could truly fault someone for getting freaked out when ambushed by a mass shooter, but the issue is that *their entire job was to stop this*, when it is painfully clear that they simply cannot do that. Why? Because if we forced them to have the kind of vigilance that they would need to stop it then they would end up shooting a gently caress ton of people just for being twitchy. They arent soldiers outside the wire, as much as they would like to think they are, and we dont want them to have "draw and fire" responses to getting accidentally bumped as someone walked past. It's absurd to think that more cops would help this other than to assume that volume of fire after the first couple of cops goes down would be the solution. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 25, 2022 |
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May 25, 2022 21:44
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CommieGIR posted:The shooter was not trans, that was 4chan spread rumor picked up by noted Legislative shithead Gosar Good lord. I guess we're well past the point where we just assume and immediately label the guy a Muslim or a far left radical or something.
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May 25, 2022 21:51
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that was always a thing, its just that the internet makes it faster to do. Also doesnt help that the true crime genre has made it mainstream to try to be a detective.
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May 25, 2022 21:52
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The trap a number of y'all seem to be falling into today is assuming that societal decisions are made via reasoned(or unreasoned) argument rather than by the exercise of power. You should not really be asking yourself "how can I trick or otherwise logically entrap my philosophical opponents" but rather "how can I secure and wield power to get what I want" The latter is unfortunately a much harder question to answer and a lot less friendly to shadowboxing
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May 25, 2022 21:54
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Not trying to be offensive or inflammatory but the Democratic legislative agenda had been dead for 2 years. What makes this senseless tragedy different then the dozens of other mass shootings? Meaningful gun control legislation in America seems even more far fetched than fully automated gay space communism
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May 25, 2022 21:58
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