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Vahakyla posted:Where do I argue that? You know what absolutely does not solve it? Nothing. Lemming posted:This is still kind of just Good Guy With A Gun mentality, there are vanishingly few good, honest people who would sign up to legitimately, actually risk their lives in this kind of scenario. It's also a big part of why all guns need to be banned, there's nothing you can really do to stop someone with one from just immediately killing a ton of people. It's terrifying but that's just the reality You do not need a gun to do something. And if you are not willing to risk getting shot to protect a child then you should not be a police officer. Does that mean fewer police? Good. That is a festure, not a bug.
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May 26, 2022 19:04
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CommieGIR posted:
The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true.
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May 26, 2022 19:04
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Bishyaler posted:Of course the shooter will always be better prepared, but the alternative is to be defenseless in such a situation. If you can't flee and you can't rely on police to engage the shooter, your other option is to die. No, the "alternative" is not to be defenseless. Being defenseless is the only possibility. In all likelihood, all those kids were killed very quickly, and taking longer to go in didn't make a difference in how many kids died. I think it feels more satisfying to blame the cops for not stopping things, but only because it implies that some of the kids could have been saved, which makes it feel like if another shooting starts, something could, theoretically be done. It can't be. The only solution is to prevent the shootings from happening in the first place The police cannot be fixed. There is no version of police that could have saved these kids
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May 26, 2022 19:05
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Vahakyla posted:The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true. One of the survivors claimed shortly before the cops finally engaged the shooter they said call out if you need help and one of his classmates was murdered because they yelled help. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 19:06
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Vahakyla posted:The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true. The shooting continued for nearly half the 40 minutes. Then when they DID re-enter the classroom they called out who needed help and HE SHOT ANOTHER KID while they were in there when the cops entered. Jesus, no that was again not a reasonable course of action. You are arguing it was right for them to sacrifice a class and two teachers! Step back and realize maybe you are having the wrong take here. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:09 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 19:06
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Vahakyla posted:The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true. This is provably untrue because one child was murdered after the police told him to call for help. 'The poor police couldn't do anything' when their shirty training and overt cowardece got at least one child murdered is far more copraganda than 'maybe they could have not left a shooter alone with children for an hour'
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May 26, 2022 19:07
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CommieGIR posted:And how would that address a school shooter? Arm the kids? Arm the teachers? Make teachers BIGGER targets? I'm not a believer of arming teachers or kids. I'm not certain if there's a 'good' solution for schools. Possibly hire security guards and lock the ingress points during school hours. But relying on cops after seeing Parkland and Uvalde? That ain't it.
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May 26, 2022 19:07
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Vahakyla posted:Containment and assault were probably in this case the most reasonable solution. Broke brained debate lord. I hate cops but they are all we have right now to respond to shootings. If I was a parent watching the cops shuffle around in their full body armor while my kid's school is being shot up... your cold rationality is as empty as you are. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 26, 2022 19:07
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gun to my head I'd choose 19 dead cops over 19 dead kids
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May 26, 2022 19:08
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Bishyaler posted:I'm not a believer of arming teachers or kids. I'm not certain if there's a 'good' solution for schools. Possibly hire security guards and lock the ingress points during school hours. But relying on cops after seeing Parkland and Uvalde? That ain't it. By that argument you are just saying "We'll get PRIVATE cops instead". Its not a solution either. Police abolition and firearms reform are the only solution. Not saying its a solution we CAN do, but I don't think that solution is the one either.
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May 26, 2022 19:09
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No one is making me dictator so I can implement full communism and reverse the societal alienation that's at the heart of these shootings. So all I can do is hope the cops do something useful for once in their lives.
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May 26, 2022 19:09
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Lemming posted:No, the "alternative" is not to be defenseless. Being defenseless is the only possibility. In all likelihood, all those kids were killed very quickly, and taking longer to go in didn't make a difference in how many kids died. There's a story today on a 4th grader reporting that when cops finally entered after an hour, they told the kids to call for help before they subdued the shooter, one kid answered, and then the shooter killed her. So they absolutely didn't all die immediately. It feels satisfying to blame cops because we've been saying for years that they're state-sanctioned gangs who don't give a poo poo about doing the right thing and now we have concrete proof.
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May 26, 2022 19:10
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You guys realize you're arguing in support of the Biden take that the problem with police isn't their existence, but they just need funding for better training and community interaction right? Again, the cops obviously did a terrible job, which is the best possible job that cops can do by their nature of being cops
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May 26, 2022 19:10
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Like every new reveal is more hosed up than the last about how badly the cops failed there's no reason to defend them.
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May 26, 2022 19:11
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The press conference where the cowardly cops give an update about their response is going to be here: https://www.kens5.com/video/news/li...a0-1463d9f54925
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May 26, 2022 19:11
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WorkerThread posted:Broke brained debate lord. I hate cops but they are all we have right now to respond to shootings. If I was a parent watching the cops shuffle around in their full body armor while my kid's school is being shot up... your cold rationality is as empty as you are. I'll take special offence to being cold a debate lord, considering I've put chest seals on shooting victims at a loving school but go for it. More heroic cops would not have fixed this and that's my opinion. THis isn't me "defending" cops, this is me hating the American cops with burning passion. There's no reality where there's heroic armed cops who risk their lives for kids and solve problems.
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May 26, 2022 19:11
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Vahakyla posted:I'll take special offence to being cold a debate lord, considering I've put chest seals on shooting victims at a loving school but go for it. But neither would locking the shooter in a class room to create more of the very things you say you don't want. Either admit you don't have an answer or stop pretending enabling a slaughterhouse was a good move.
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May 26, 2022 19:12
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B B posted:The press conference where the cowardly cops give an update about their response is going to be here: Can't wait to hear the same "brave first responders" garbage over and over. Just like the CBP spox talking about the two officers that first fired at the guy. The way they write these things like babby's first Fairy Tale Golden Book is just so gross. Also because they're lying.
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May 26, 2022 19:13
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CommieGIR posted:
What loving kind of gotcha is this? You are correct, I do not have a solution to american school shootings. I have some ideas how the nightmare, as it is unleashing, gets mitigated a little bit. Besides that, no, we haven't actually found a good way to solve them after they happen. And we won't, hence why we should prevent them. Armed dude with a rifle in every room would still not prevent deaths. YOU GOT ME!
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May 26, 2022 19:13
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Groovelord Neato posted:Like every new reveal is more hosed up than the last about how badly the cops failed there's no reason to defend them. Saying that these guys did the best job that cops can do is a searing indictment of cops, not support for them. They let a classroom of children get murdered and no other cop could have done better. There are no hero cops who could have saved the day, the institution is worthless and speculating about how they could be improved is a waste of time because they can't be
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May 26, 2022 19:14
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Vahakyla posted:What loving kind of gotcha is this? There is actually a solution. Repeal the second amendment, confiscate guns and make owning one a felony.
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May 26, 2022 19:14
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Vahakyla posted:What loving kind of gotcha is this? Its not a gotcha, this was your post: Vahakyla posted:The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true. Which was false, because he continued to shoot kids as the police entered the room after 40 minutes, as well as your other post saying containing him in the classroom was a good movie and enabling a killzone. Its fine to say you have no good solution, its another to say the solution that led to that slaughter was ALSO a valid solution.
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May 26, 2022 19:15
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BonoMan posted:There is actually a solution. Repeal the second amendment, confiscate guns and make owning one a felony. That isn't a reactive solution to a shooting that's underway. I'm all for regulating the gently caress out of firearms to prevent shootings.
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May 26, 2022 19:15
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Lemming posted:You guys realize you're arguing in support of the Biden take that the problem with police isn't their existence, but they just need funding for better training and community interaction right? Not really no. I am pro police abolishment but if they loving have to exist then they should be better trained. (Not better armed. )
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May 26, 2022 19:16
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Vahakyla posted:That isn't a reactive solution to a shooting that's underway. They waited 40 minutes while he was contained. The very police waiting were more than trained to deal with active shooters. Instead they locked him in a room and let him go to town and waited. I may be a little irrational here, but you cannot seriously expect us to treat the actions they took as reasonable at all. https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1529812650716188673?s=20&t=h_m8Zzzm0pUWLttocgDbiA
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May 26, 2022 19:17
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BonoMan posted:There is actually a solution. Repeal the second amendment, confiscate guns and make owning one a felony. This is only a solution for the problem "America's 2nd civil war isn't starting fast enough". Also there is no reality where you have the votes to repeal the 2nd Amendment. This is just wishcasting.
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May 26, 2022 19:17
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CommieGIR posted:Its not a gotcha, this was your post: Catchy word that "killzone", but containment and assault afterward is often used in most insanely violent and unpredictable situations. With limited info, it's usually the choice one should make. I don't know enough what happened there, and I don't believe in using hindsight to construct a narrative in how we could have picked the situation apart.
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May 26, 2022 19:17
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Vahakyla posted:Catchy word that "killzone", but containment and assault afterward is often used in most insanely violent and unpredictable situations. With limited info, it's usually the choice one should make. I don't know enough what happened there, and I don't believe in using hindsight to construct a narrative in how we could have picked the situation apart. https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1529812651932631041?s=20&t=h_m8Zzzm0pUWLttocgDbiA https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1529812656361717765?s=20&t=h_m8Zzzm0pUWLttocgDbiA Just stop, please.
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May 26, 2022 19:18
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ImpAtom posted:Not really no. I am pro police abolishment but if they loving have to exist then they should be better trained. (Not better armed. ) No, they shouldn't be better trained! There should be fewer of them because they don't do poo poo! They don't suck because their training is bad, they suck because cops exist to subjugate the poor, minorities, and the working class! They do not exist to save children from evil fucks with guns!
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May 26, 2022 19:18
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CommieGIR posted:They waited 40 minutes while he was contained. The very police waiting were more than trained to deal with active shooters. Instead they locked him in a room and let him go to town and waited. do it. give in and hit the bootlicker, CG. You know you want to. You know it's the right thing to do.
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May 26, 2022 19:19
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CommieGIR posted:
...do you want panicked parents to be allowed into a situation like this? I am legitimately asking.
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May 26, 2022 19:19
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Vahakyla posted:...do you want panicked parents to be allowed into a situation like this? I am legitimately asking. If the police are unwilling to do anything: YES. If the Police are so inept they cannot react to a shooter, let someone else try. Again: It took a Federal Border Patrol officer to end this. After 60 minutes while their own stupid SWAT team couldn't do their job and their cops just tazed parents trying to save their children as they could hear the gunshots.
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May 26, 2022 19:19
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CommieGIR posted:If the police are unwilling to do anything: YES. If the Police are so inept they cannot react to a shooter, let someone else try. Alright. I got nothing further to say, then.
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May 26, 2022 19:20
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CommieGIR posted:If the police are unwilling to do anything: YES. If the Police are so inept they cannot react to a shooter, let someone else try. This is the dumbest thing posted yet. A thousand parents inside yelling for their children to call out. Absolute drivel.
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May 26, 2022 19:20
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You should probably quit posting today, or next, or ever. Just absolute bird brains. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 26, 2022 19:21
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1529812651932631041?s=20&t=h_m8Zzzm0pUWLttocgDbiA Your argument boils down to "they should have been Good Cops instead of Bastard Cops" but since all cops are bastards do you see the problem with your argument? Like, seriously, nobody is arguing they did a good job. They are cops. They cannot, by their nature, do a good job. It's like saying a penguin who jumped off a cliff did a bad job of flying, it should have done a good job of flying and that'd be better
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May 26, 2022 19:21
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Lemming posted:No, they shouldn't be better trained! There should be fewer of them because they don't do poo poo! They don't suck because their training is bad, they suck because cops exist to subjugate the poor, minorities, and the working class! They do not exist to save children from evil fucks with guns! That is not what they claim to be, so either they loving live up to their claims or go away. I vote the latter.
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May 26, 2022 19:21
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I don’t know about Texas cops, but cops in Seattle and cops in Northern California are trained to arrive, make a plan, and move towards the shooting and engage the shooter. A plan in this context is often not more complex than “Mike you’re up front and I’ll take the rear”. And then you sprint as fast as you can towards the shooting, ignoring injured victims and anything else. If the shooting stops you can back off, establish a perimeter and try to negotiate or some other tactic and get help for victims. If the shooting begins again you go in and stop/kill the shooter. I’m willing to bet all these cops had the same training, because it’s been the standard for 20 years. Unrelated, if mass shooters love killing children and other vulnerable populations we need to start a national conversation about how weak and helpless and ineffectual our political class is and then maybe someday get new gun laws that aren’t hosed once they finally feel vulnerable.
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May 26, 2022 19:23
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Oracle posted:Where did you get this had anything to do with immigration policy in the first place? Did you read a drat thing in the article I posted? They went to the school because they're often called in for backup, answer 911 calls for the town, etc. I can't find the post from a few pages back but somebody quoted a RWM article or some bullshit a congressman said citing immigration and border security as a main cause of the shooting. I should have quote it in my response for clarity's sake. My fault. I wasn't implying anyone in the thread was asserting that EDIT CommieGIR posted:A city that gives 40% of the budget to cops and they cannot do a god damned thing against an armed assailant. Found it. I was referencing this post. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 19:27 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 19:23
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Bishyaler posted:This is only a solution for the problem "America's 2nd civil war isn't starting fast enough". It's the only *actual* solution though as evident by... literally everything happening around us. Regardless of it's impossibility. Maybe you can engage in a decades long effort to make people's lives materially better and improve mental health, slowly gain control of the senate and then eventually pass some sort of gun control. But that's not happening either. I think we've all come to the conclusion that nothing is every going to happen about it and the world will burn up from Climate Change before we're able to act. So might as well wishcast.
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May 26, 2022 19:25
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