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cheers dude, enjoy the weekend
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May 28, 2022 04:25
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I've been for arguing for disarming police for decades. I'm suggesting that leftists might have a bit more success in the moment at pushing for disarming cops than trying to argue that actually ar15s are utterly vital. Or at least it might seem less insanely tone deaf. I don't think leftists have a chance of any success at police disarmament in this moment regardless of what they say https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1529947693572931624 Senior advisor to the president is firing off takes like this. The appetite for disarming police by the political class is subzero. You can't disarm police by winning an argument. If it happens, it has to be compelled and the left is nowhere near strong enough to compel anything at the moment
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May 28, 2022 04:34
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selec posted:The Proud Boys would make it very clear (as well as leftist surveillance of them) when they were in town jumping out on trans people and people of color to beat your asses. Can you actually provide some examples of armed community resistance? Like you certainly can't mean someone like Michael Reinoehl so it's difficult for me to see what exactly you claim is so successful in the modern situations. (And that's even discounting that there's a huge difference between an actual unified group and five dudes with handguns itching for a chance to shoot a Proud Boy.) And yes, a new world has been born. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say we live in a very very different world than our parents or even the one we did growing up. It's also one where the racists and shitheels have had decades to figure out how to undermine previously successful tactics. The only point in favor of armed community resistance is 'we haven't tried it anytime recently so it will probably work.' Every other thing we know points to it being some degree of ineffective or actively harmful. (Because horrible gun accidents, misfires and suicides are not unique to any political group.)
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May 28, 2022 04:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:perhaps leftists could work towards disarming the police, as should have been done a million years ago People who say inane things like this should be required to elaborate on what they actually think "leftists" should do to accomplish that. Like, how would you do that? Use the left's massive legiative influence? Use their magic wand to kick off the revolution?
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May 28, 2022 04:36
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I don't think leftists have a chance of any success at police disarmament in this moment regardless of what they say Were they even outgunned though? Everything I've seen of the American police tells me that even the first guys on the scene probably had an assault rifle in the trunk.
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May 28, 2022 04:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I've been for arguing for disarming police for decades. I'm suggesting that leftists might have a bit more success in the moment at pushing for disarming cops than trying to argue that actually ar15s are utterly vital. Or at least it might seem less insanely tone deaf. I don't think there's anyone in this argument saying that it would be better to have guns than full disarmament. The democrats can start packing the courts so we can make the necessary changes to get to full disarmament.
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May 28, 2022 04:44
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"better to have guns than disarmament" is almost to a word bishayler's position?TheIncredulousHulk posted:I don't think leftists have a chance of any success at police disarmament in this moment regardless of what they say I don't think it's ever been especially likely, many things that ultimately happen are extremely unlikely for a long time before they happen. It at least bears consideration now given that the police being fully militarized while responding to this had apparently zero impact. Certainly beats turning up to post ruger ad copy about how individuals with ar15s will reshape society in their preferred image or whatever the exact pro-gun marketing line is at the moment. WorkerThread posted:People who say inane things like this should be required to elaborate on what they actually think "leftists" should do to accomplish that. Like, how would you do that? Use the left's massive legiative influence? Use their magic wand to kick off the revolution? at the moment I'm saying people should talk about it. I wasn't aware that 'concrete legislative plans to enact a specific change' were a prerequisite to posting in here, that's news to me Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:52 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 04:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:"better to have guns than disarmament" is almost to a word bishayler's position? The proper approach, in my opinion, is to attack from both positions:
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May 28, 2022 05:02
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DarkCrawler posted:Were they even outgunned though? Everything I've seen of the American police tells me that even the first guys on the scene probably had an assault rifle in the trunk. Nope Herstory Begins Now posted:"better to have guns than disarmament" is almost to a word bishayler's position? I don't think it actually does beat it, is the thing. They're both totally orthogonal to what actually happens. 0 = 0
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May 28, 2022 05:09
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At least in one case there you don't find yourself arguing how important your personal ar15 is directly after some idiot with an ar15 shot 20+ kids to death.
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May 28, 2022 05:37
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FishBulbia posted:but what if I had to fight against the tyranny of a government armed with 5k nuclear war heads with a semi-auto! The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand! Oh, wait, that was a knife... Edit: Serious post though - as someone who enjoys throwing knives as a hobby for the past 30 years almost, I don't understand why people think that their own personal self defense rests solely on guns, when there are other, potentially more-effective avenues for self defense when it comes to the home, traveling, etc. Canned Sunshine fucked around with this message at 06:17 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 06:02
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We should repeal the second amendment.
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May 28, 2022 06:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:We should repeal the second amendment. Probably easier to stack the supreme court and have them interpret the "right to bear arms" to mean that you have the right to join the military, and not that you have the right to own guns as a civilian. IIRC there's even some evidence that this is what The FoundersTM intended by the phrase.
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May 28, 2022 06:56
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So several different instagram pages, some credible like OAF_actual that does decent reporting posted this picture, saying this is of the off-duty Border Patrol agent who is a member of BORTAC and shot the shooter, but who was grazed by a bullet in return. Not really NSFW, not bad gore at all, shows some staples on a grazing head injury, looks like a scrape.  
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May 28, 2022 07:47
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Herstory Begins Now posted:perhaps leftists could work towards disarming the police, as should have been done a million years ago oh drat sorry, I had no idea we were the ones with the power to do this instead of the liberals and conservatives in office. Our bad! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2022 11:33
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Discendo Vox posted:Because they are trying to poo poo up the debate and discussion forum. You, a mod, are facilitating their doing so by giving them a platform and inviting them to continue instead of removing them. You should find a hobby other than backseat modding (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2022 11:54
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VikingofRock posted:Probably easier to stack the supreme court and have them interpret the "right to bear arms" to mean that you have the right to join the military, and not that you have the right to own guns as a civilian. IIRC there's even some evidence that this is what The FoundersTM intended by the phrase. As archconservative chief justice Warren Burger said the second amendment was "subject to the greatest pieces of fraud [...] on the American public by special interests groups that [he] had ever seen in [his] lifetime". The interpretation that was finally enshrined by Heller didn't come into prominence until after the NRA coup in the 70s that radicalized the organization. We're stuck with it considering the Court is even further right than it was when Heller was decided. There's a great piece in the New York Review of Books about how this fraud (by the same author who wrote Our Moloch) came to be but unfortunately the site has been behind a paywall for some time. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 12:26 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 12:23
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selec posted:Last tweet lays it out for you, try it again. That’s the salient point: why do you need guns? If the status quo is working for a liberal, what possible argument is there? …you do understand that marginalized people are more at risk of getting shot because of how accessible guns are in the US….right?? For your last question: who are you to tell a poor trans person that they need to get killed by a bigot with a gun because the US hands them out like candy? Honestly, your appeal to pretend like easy gun access is actually helpful for marginalized people is loving disgusting.
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May 28, 2022 12:44
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I'd also like to point out that the widespread availability of firearms in the US is directly making firearms more available for criminal purposes in Canada and Mexico, since our respective borders are hardly impermeable. The easy access to guns in the US is directly making life worse in those countries so leftists can indulge their fantasies of armed revolution against the government or whatever; how's that for solidarity?
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May 28, 2022 14:36
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Nearly All Mass Shooters Since 1966 Have Had 4 Things in Common The largest study of mass shooters ever funded by the U.S. government reveals stunning information about perpetrators. https://www.vice.com/en/article/a35mya/nearly-all-mass-shooters-since-1966-have-had-four-things-in-common quote:The stereotype of a mass shooter is a white male with a history of mental illness or domestic violence. While that may be anecdotally true, the largest single study of mass shooters ever funded by the U.S. government has found that nearly all mass shooters have four specific things in common.
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May 28, 2022 14:47
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Kalit posted:…you do understand that marginalized people are more at risk of getting shot because of how accessible guns are in the US….right?? The interplay between Republicans flooding city streets with firearms and then using the resultant high murder rates as an excuse to support state sanctioned lynchings and segregational policies also seems like an important event to highlight with relation to the availability of firearms and minority rights and safety.
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May 28, 2022 14:58
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PT6A posted:I'd also like to point out that the widespread availability of firearms in the US is directly making firearms more available for criminal purposes in Canada and Mexico, since our respective borders are hardly impermeable. The easy access to guns in the US is directly making life worse in those countries so leftists can indulge their fantasies of armed revolution against the government or whatever; how's that for solidarity? What do you think the leftists can do about that?
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May 28, 2022 15:04
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What do you think the leftists can do about that? Work towards stronger gun laws in the US rather than repeating the same pro-gun rhetoric that the right uses, now with a cool new Leftist flavour(tm)!
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May 28, 2022 15:06
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PT6A posted:The easy access to guns in the US is directly making life worse in those countries so leftists can indulge their fantasies of armed revolution against the government or whatever; how's that for solidarity? Utterly insane thing to post. Do the liberals in this thread really believe leftists are the dominant political force in this country, or are they arguing in bad faith :thinking: (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2022 15:10
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PT6A posted:Work towards stronger gun laws in the US rather than repeating the same pro-gun rhetoric that the right uses, now with a cool new Leftist flavour(tm)! And why do you think what leftists do and say will matter there? Should leftists stop buying guns and practicing with them? What will you do to protect them if they do?
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May 28, 2022 15:13
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PT6A posted:Work towards stronger gun laws in the US rather than repeating the same pro-gun rhetoric that the right uses, now with a cool new Leftist flavour(tm)! Public opinion still doesn't have much of an effect on policy. Stricter gun control laws are something polling has shown a majority has wanted for years. There is no working to stronger gun control laws because an extreme minority of people can hold power and veto any efforts to do it. There are no leftists who are also pro-gun anywhere near this process unless we divine through their actions that actually Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are secretly pro-gun since they do nothing to remove power from that small minority. Edit: in the same way Republicans get their base to turn on people with no power as a deflection for the pain Republicans are causing the perfidious leftist is a good scapegoat for explaining why Democrats keep accepting a status quo where they're not allowed to use power even though they have the right to it. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 15:25 on May 28, 2022 |
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May 28, 2022 15:13
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PT6A posted:Work towards stronger gun laws in the US rather than repeating the same pro-gun rhetoric that the right uses, now with a cool new Leftist flavour(tm)! Our system has already proven to be no longer capable of responding to this problem. There is no viable federal solution because we do not have a functioning government, because we don't have a functioning society. If the culture isn't addressed we'll just continue to circle this same drain.
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May 28, 2022 15:23
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PT6A posted:Work towards stronger gun laws in the US rather than repeating the same pro-gun rhetoric that the right uses, now with a cool new Leftist flavour(tm)! Because the gun control debate led by worthless liberals has resulted in useful legislation since taking over in 2021 such as: The issue is that liberals can’t be assed to understand any opinion that isn’t their own. Libs need to ask themselves “how can I push what I want to accomplish from the right”. Doing the same thing and getting the same results is just insanity If libs want to actually solve this, there needs to be a push for “the 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment. Open it up for all means of protection.” On top of that libs won’t push “disarm all cops” as a means to protect citizens. Biden is the perfect manifestation of liberal ideology in its final form: feckless, incompetent, and incoherent.
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May 28, 2022 15:25
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Trying to be pleasant republicans has been a failing strategy for Democrats. Liberals are already right enough they don't need to lean into it further.
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May 28, 2022 15:41
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Gun weirds are gun weirds regardless of their opinions on gay marriage or progressive taxation. You can't reason with them, it's a religion.
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May 28, 2022 15:44
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Bel Shazar posted:Trying to be pleasant republicans has been a failing strategy for Democrats. Liberals are already right enough they don't need to lean into it further. Who said anything about being pleasant?
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May 28, 2022 15:49
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Who said anything about being pleasant? It's what they're doing right now. If they go further right they'll just be more conservatives doing things.
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May 28, 2022 15:50
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I think having a means of self defense from delusional reactionaries that want to strip my rights and empower the pigs is a self-evident good and that's why I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself from liberals using lethal force
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May 28, 2022 15:51
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We live in a country where the police regularly shoot people for no reason, we're on the edge of a fascist coup and had an attempted one on 1/6. The current political prognosis is that the Democrats are doing nothing to win and will lose the next two elections leading to a wave of fascist take over. Is anyone really shocked that it motivates some people to own guns? We can't both be on the edge of government collapse and fascist take over and also scolding anyone who is afraid of that happening.
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May 28, 2022 15:51
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You can own guns and still work towards a disarmed society, they're in no way mutually exclusive.
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May 28, 2022 15:58
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More of this would help. https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1530503526924918784?s=20&t=uWZeV_3Rxa3qJ3tq4FczUg
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May 28, 2022 15:59
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Dick Trauma posted:More of this would help. If only libs were this outraged about child concentration camps and the deliberate mass infection of children with a novel pathogen the government would *checks notes* continue doing absolutely nothing about it, because this is some cuck poo poo
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May 28, 2022 16:07
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Gumball Gumption posted:We live in a country where the police regularly shoot people for no reason, we're on the edge of a fascist coup and had an attempted one on 1/6. The current political prognosis is that the Democrats are doing nothing to win and will lose the next two elections leading to a wave of fascist take over. Is anyone really shocked that it motivates some people to own guns? We can't both be on the edge of government collapse and fascist take over and also scolding anyone who is afraid of that happening. If the fascists take over, your guns will accomplish nothing. If there was an actual militant insurgency in this country, it would require either A: a significant chunk of the military siding with it. And those guys have guns already so gun control doesn't matter. Or B: a foreign power supplying arms. In which case you're getting crates of illegal foreign guns so legal gun control doesn't matter. If your plan to fight the fascist government could be derailed by the sporting good's store in your town closing, it is not an actual plan.
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May 28, 2022 16:09
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Gripweed posted:If the fascists take over, your guns will accomplish nothing. If there was an actual militant insurgency in this country, it would require either A: a significant chunk of the military siding with it. And those guys have guns already so gun control doesn't matter. Or B: a foreign power supplying arms. In which case you're getting crates of illegal foreign guns so legal gun control doesn't matter. I keep imagining you giving this preening lecture to people about to be forcibly removed to the Warsaw ghetto. It's the easiest way to realize you're on the side of the Nazis.
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May 28, 2022 16:15
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Gumball Gumption posted:We live in a country where the police regularly shoot people for no reason, we're on the edge of a fascist coup and had an attempted one on 1/6. The current political prognosis is that the Democrats are doing nothing to win and will lose the next two elections leading to a wave of fascist take over. Is anyone really shocked that it motivates some people to own guns? We can't both be on the edge of government collapse and fascist take over and also scolding anyone who is afraid of that happening. Legally purchased guns are not going to help you and will if anything make you more of a target because the government will have records. Like legally buying a gun is probably worse for you in that situation than having no gun. Bathtub Cheese posted:I keep imagining you giving this preening lecture to people about to be forcibly removed to the Warsaw ghetto. It's the easiest way to realize you're on the side of the Nazis. Gosh it is almost like 1940 and 2022 are different periods
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May 28, 2022 16:16
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