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Pattonesque posted:uhhhhh let me be clear: "le price stabilite"
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May 26, 2022 23:34
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worm girl posted:It is pretty interesting that there are two people you can arrest for copbrain reasons who get killed if you do so and they're both women. There are no men you can do that to. It's interesting to me that while the choice to arrest Klaasje is a contentious one everywhere I see it discussed, I have actually never seen anyone argue that it's worth pursuing Ruby's arrest to the point of her suicide. For all the supposedly copbrained reasons to arrest Klaasje, I've seen no argument made that it's better that Ruby kill herself than be allowed to go free. She's not the shooter, and who really wants to shut down the party pipeline, anyway? When backed into a corner, I don't recall Ruby betraying the people who stuck their necks out to help her, namely Tommy Le Homme and Isobel the Washerwoman. It seems clear to me that if you can be merciful to Ruby, you should. And the mercy argument is the most persuasive argument to me for letting Klaasje go, too, so long as whoever chooses to be merciful recognizes and accepts the responsibility that the risk of showing this mercy to Klaasje will be borne by the people around her wherever she flees to next. To ameliorate that decision somewhat, it is notable to me that since arriving in Martinaise, Klaasje does surround herself with dangerous people who are already willing to do various degrees of shady business. So wherever she does flee to next, it's more probable to me that she'll attach herself to the dangerous characters there, people who've already accepted a riskier lifestyle rather than civilians. It's a slight credit to her, I guess, but she's admitted to a past willingness to hurt regular people, too. I don't quite understand the "you're copbrained" argument for letting Klaasje go, though. I don't believe these critics are saying that under no circumstances should you intervene if you believe there's a dangerous person in your community. Maybe it's that you should not be in a position of elevated authority such as a cop when facing dangerous people, and you should be more organically of the community when confronting dangerous elements. Or is it just that arresting the dangerous person in this particular instance leaves there judgment up to the evil international world order. And I've never seen anyone defend the MI's abhorrent interference in Revachol's business. It is extremely regrettable that they will decide her fate rather than a Revacholian jury if an arrest is made. And if that is enough for someone to decide to not arrest Klaasje, okay then, but please also accept the responsibility of the risk others will be placed in if Klaasje repeats her behavior of throwing people in harm's way to escape her fate. Klaasje triggers my own personal sense of fear like very few other characters in Martinaise do. I think she shows some very dangerous, predatory tendencies. She has a way of being comfortable seeing others punished (and setting them up for that punishment) to save her own skin that I find extremely unnerving and alarming. Were she in my neighborhood, I'd vote for banishment over incarceration.
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May 27, 2022 00:36
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I just don't think it's Harry's job to Judge Dredd every woman in Martinaise while letting bastards like the Clares walk free and there's nothing to be gained by killing Klaasje and no way to give her a slap on the wrist. Ruby is running fentanyl iirc. I am pretty lower case L libertarian about drugs but it's clear her second job is destroying communities. There's a much better argument to be made for putting her away and the fact that she takes herself hostage is on her, not Harry. It's still just not really worth it. She's done anyway, who cares if she runs off? Even Kim says so. The world doesn't improve in any way when you arrest anyone in this game. The Deserter lost his scope and he's dying anyway, Ruby threw her criminal career away to impress Klaasje, and Klaasje is no longer a spy and can't hurt anyone unless another pervert murders her boyfriend and makes it look like the government did it in the middle of an unrelated political powder keg. About the only impactful justice you can mete out is solving the mystery of the dead man on the docks and wiping out the Krenel squad. It should be stressed that the situation around Lely's death was a combination of one in a million circumstances that Klaasje did not know about and had no control over unless you want to get conspiratorial about the fact that the Deserter had killed people for the Clares before and Klaasje may still be working as a spy, but I don't think the text supports that. Caufman posted:
The fact that you would say this in a game that features such nice folks as Cuno's Dad, The Deserter, and the Clares really makes me think that people would not be having this conversation if Klaasje was a man. This is an absolutely psychotic read. worm girl fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 01:43
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Even if you think there's a chance Klaasje might harm others, it's still bad to become the Punisher, to me. Even cops that aren't less than a week out from so much substance abuse that it temporarily annihilated their brain should not have the power to deliver the death penalty to someone based on gut feeling and their willingness to lie to the police.
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May 27, 2022 02:02
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in universe then does the calculus for arresting her change if you don't get the esprit de corps text telling you they're gonna black bag her?
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May 27, 2022 02:04
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worm girl posted:The fact that you would say this in a game that features such nice folks as Cuno's Dad, The Deserter, and the Clares really makes me think that people would not be having this conversation if Klaasje was a man. Is gender a factor for you? You mentioned that you don't think it's Harry's job to Judge Dredd every woman in Martinaise. Is it different for you then if Klaasje was not a woman? For me, the Clares are also dangerous, as are the Deserter and the MI. That you can't do something about the Clares or the MI because they are too powerful doesn't persuade me that you should not do anything about lower level threats that you can do something about. I think responsibility is defined by the scope of ability. It's more persuasive to me to argue that letting Klaasje go is low-risk because the chances of another fluke that would push her to throw people into harms way to save herself is not high. That risk is still going to be on people in her next circle, but sure, maybe she'll be luckier and more successful laying low in her next area.
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May 27, 2022 02:24
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Caufman posted:Is gender a factor for you? You mentioned that you don't think it's Harry's job to Judge Dredd every woman in Martinaise. Is it different for you then if Klaasje was not a woman? Well the Clares are orchestrating assassinations and arranging for the company to commit a massacre against civilians to justify the union seizing the harbor, and Cuno's dad beats the poo poo out of him every day and is so constantly wasted he hasn't noticed that he obtained a second kid. I think those things are worse than lying to a police officer, and gender is not really a factor there. If there was a way to arrest Ruby without her dying (Puta Madre's people would probably kill her in prison) that would be the right thing to do, but there's not so it's not worth it. In a vacuum, a fine or a short jail stint for Klaasje for interfering with an investigation might be appropriate, but Martinaise is not a vacuum, and murdering her for being irresponsible is also not worthwhile. Gender is an important theme in the game. Harry is frustrated by his failures with women and opportunities to punish or blame other women for his wife leaving him come up several times. The Deserter is the same way, he's picked up the reactionary tendency to blame women for his own failure because he's not nearly as ideologically pure as he thinks. It's the entire reason he killed Lely, to punish her for not being in love with an old man she never met. worm girl fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 02:32
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Again this is all predicated on believing her story about being a spy. Even in the end you actually don't know for a fact that a single word of what she says is true outside of her admitting her fake names. Finding her passport and ids doesn't really prove poo poo. You have zero (0) idea why the Moralintern wants her and the only reason you know they even do is your damaged brain giving you a psychic premonition of her being blackbagged after you arrest her. In retrospect arresting her is dumb because it doesn't help the investigation (she hands you your final clue on a platter if you let her go where you get nothing if you send her to lockup for the MIBs to disappear), but IMO at least all decisions from a roleplaying standpoint can be judged on the information you and Harry have at the moment of the choice. She repeatedly lies to you regardless of how much benefit of the doubt you give her. All info you have makes her highly suspicious. There's a murder with an actual victim, and depending on your conversations it seems clear that solving the murder is one of the only possible paths to Lely's colleagues not hosing the neighborhood down with bullets (my original thought before I got to the tribunal was that the big decision was going to be if you wanted to hand the potential perp over to the mercs to be hideously killed, or have a shootout because you want to properly arrest them). Klassje very likely knows this considering she knew far more about him than anyone else, and her first move after he dies is to sucker the Hardys into staging a hanging which she's probably well aware WILL trigger violent retribution from the rest of the mercs. Taking or not taking in the morality of everyone's individual decisions it makes 100% perfect sense to arrest her. The person who was with the murder victim can't keep their story straight and you've got everyone else's involvement nailed down fairly well- you'd logically have to be a loving moron to let her walk based on a fairly wild sounding story after she already has lied to your face repeatedly. Harry can toss her in the clink for entirely petulant, shitheaded reasons (making his brain sad because she LIED to him and reminded him of the wife he abused) but again- from both of your vantage points there is zero reason to believe her story and legitimately no way to know the MI would haul her off for real. Ruby is stupidly easy to explain. She literally puts a gun to her own head and you get the choice of either letting her go or making her blow her brains out. You have almost no reason to believe Klassje because she's straight up a proven liar and a manipulator- regardless of how sad her life is or how pathetic Harry's anger about it is. Ruby has a loving gun to her head- that math is easy. Attempting to arrest Ruby is 100% copbrained, sending Klassje to the station makes sense. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 03:42 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 03:38
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Can people please stop taking in-universe reasoning behind arresting her with no desire to see her die and no tangible in-universe indication that having her in custody will result in her being killed (outside of the possibility of a premonition that may occur if you pass a check with the most notably unreliable inner voice in the game) and equating it with a stated desire to 100% literally execute her in the loving street out of sheer player-motivated bloodlust?
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May 27, 2022 03:58
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None of this would have happened if she had decided to have gently caress with me
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May 27, 2022 04:03
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christmas boots posted:None of this would have happened if she had decided to have gently caress with me her rejection forced me into the homo-sexual underground
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May 27, 2022 04:06
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Breetai posted:Can people please stop taking in-universe reasoning behind arresting her with no desire to see her die and no tangible in-universe indication that having her in custody will result in her being killed (outside of the possibility of a premonition that may occur if you pass a check with the most notably unreliable inner voice in the game) and equating it with a stated desire to 100% literally execute her in the loving street out of sheer player-motivated bloodlust?
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May 27, 2022 04:08
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Fabricated posted:stuff That's much more reasonable than Caufman's argument that she should be destroyed because she's scary somehow. Breetai posted:Can people please stop taking in-universe reasoning behind arresting her with no desire to see her die and no tangible in-universe indication that having her in custody will result in her being killed (outside of the possibility of a premonition that may occur if you pass a check with the most notably unreliable inner voice in the game) and equating it with a stated desire to 100% literally execute her in the loving street out of sheer player-motivated bloodlust? If you choose to arrest her on the rooftop, she begs you not to let them "grind her into a paste." Kim says that he'll delay her extradition as long as possible as she'll be safer in the local RCM jail than wherever the Moralintern is going to drag her. So it's not just Harry's diseased and horny brain that's convinced, Kim's sleek and homosexual brain is also telling him that she's going to come to a very bad end if they pinch her. I don't think there's a lot of room to argue that her ultimate fate is fake. She's going in a Chelsea Manning hole forever or she's going to get shot in a concrete room with no trial. This argument sort of hinges on what authority the player perceives as just or legitimate. Lely definitely had it coming, but most people would agree that the Deserter should go to jail because random men can't just be shooting people. But Dros was basically a cop when the Communards were in charge, his work was to help oversee the ICM for the Party, he even comments that the RCM is what replaced it. There's also the question of whether it would have been right for the Hardy boys to hang Lely for being a huge rapist and war criminal if he had indeed raped Klaasje. The fact that they appeared to just roll up and do it without a trial seems pretty obscene, but there were no police in Martinaise before Harry got there and the Union had been the only authority for quite some time. Then there's the Moralintern, which created Lely and Klaasje and the terrible situation in Martinaise, and the only time they ever lift a finger to do anything is if you discover the source of the Pale or point out that someone who tried to quit working for them is in town, at which point they drop the hammer extremely hard. Personally I think Dros and Ruby should be in prison (though it's not really important enough to get Ruby killed over), the Hardy Boys are justified in running a militia as long as the RCM refuses to properly take care of their town, and the RCM itself is lovely but a lot better than many IRL cops. The Moralintern can get hosed, though, and I'm comfortable letting Klaasje off the hook if it means they don't get to kill her. I wonder if there are many people who would vote to let Dros off the hook. He's kind of grotesque because of the horniness, but Lely sucked very bad. worm girl fucked around with this message at 04:36 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 04:23
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Cock Carousel
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May 27, 2022 04:30
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worm girl posted:The fact that you would say this in a game that features such nice folks as Cuno's Dad, The Deserter, and the Clares really makes me think that people would not be having this conversation if Klaasje was a man. This is an absolutely psychotic read. Cuno's dad is an extremely familiar sort but I can't say that even as a Cuno they were so much scary as contemptible. He's more like a nail sticking out of the floorboards or something, every so often you'll set foot in the wrong place and he'll gently caress you right up but he's barely sapient and you know where he is so everyone just gets used to maneuvering around him as a matter of course. By the time you find the Deserter he's not much different. Evrart might be functionally a mob boss but as far as Harry's concerned he's nothing but helpful. I get the feeling that, women issues or uncritically adopting Harry's own women issues aside, what freaks people out about Klaasje is that she's actively pursuing her own opposing agenda and can think circles around Harry, so they can't control her, except by killing her. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 09:50 on May 27, 2022 |
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May 27, 2022 04:34
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Look I just wanna solve the goddamn case, kill myself, and get Her back and miss oranje disco dancer is making it very hard
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May 27, 2022 04:46
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Problem Something stirs in you -- something *interdisciplinary*. Is it a newly formed reaction to the tyrannical gender roles around you, or something you've always had? One thing is for sure: you're not a *mild* feminist. Oh no, these are incendiary thoughts aimed at undermining the very pillars of society. Could you fashion them into some sort of *weapon*, perhaps? A first strike weapon to decapitate the XY chromosome hegemony... Solution There is something you need to see, sir. We have found the remnants of an ancient artifact lodged in your hypothalamus. It is a cylindrical object, piss-weathered and smelling of liquor. The paint is peeling off, but you can clearly make out the letters REVOLUTIONARY FEMINIST AGENDA on the hull. It appears that some time ago, before you became a joke, you were an actual feminist. Somehow you’ve come to that conclusion. Perhaps you can work your way back? 
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May 27, 2022 04:49
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worm girl posted:That's much more reasonable than Caufman's argument that she should be destroyed because she's scary somehow. Hey, I'll drop this, all right? I admit that Klaasje is a trigger for me, they remind me of people in my life who've abused others remorselessly. It's an unnervingly realistic depiction of manipulation that I'm personally too twisted up in to see detachedly. I'm thinking if there was the option, I would have told Kim he needs to make the judgment call on this one and trust he'd be more clear-eyed than I can be.
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May 27, 2022 05:01
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I let Klaasje go largely because I feel like Harry, who is himself getting another chance at everything after burning his life down in spectacular fashion, would be inclined to give her another chance in turn. It feels appropriate.
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May 27, 2022 10:48
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Dros is better off being taken care of in some minimum-security jail or whatever than staying here he is. He almost certainly will die in short order after his arrest of natural causes. It's not deeply satisfying but it's not meant to be- if you didn't catch him he was no longer in the shape to do it again. You were far too late in more ways than one.
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May 27, 2022 11:44
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Imagine arresting Klaasje and then talking to the hardie boys about the look on her face and using that as the last apology needed to get the Sorry Cop thought/achievement
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May 27, 2022 17:09
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Khizan posted:I let Klaasje go largely because I feel like Harry, who is himself getting another chance at everything after burning his life down in spectacular fashion, would be inclined to give her another chance in turn. It feels appropriate. Agreed
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May 27, 2022 18:45
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Paying it forward doesn't make sense if you're doing an ultraliberal run. Maybe if you consider it a loan.
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May 27, 2022 18:51
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I decided to play this again for some creative inspiration and managed to find a character I’ve never heard of on the first day. The Lazareth? I don’t remember ever having the option to chat with him previously even when I attempted to convince Kim I was having a medical problem. This game has so much content
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May 27, 2022 19:58
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 HULK HOGAN -- "I just get so torn up... thinking about all the little Hulksters out there..." He appears to be crying. DRAMA [Easy: Failure] -- He's being genuine. He really does care about Hulkamania.
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May 27, 2022 20:50
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FutonForensic posted:
A striking resemblance to a ham sandwich.
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May 27, 2022 20:55
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If the sequel to this game isn’t called Jamrock Shuffle we strike.
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May 27, 2022 21:11
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Bismack Billabongo posted:If the sequel to this game isn’t called Jamrock Shuffle we strike. RIGHT TO POST! SHAME ON YOU!
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May 27, 2022 21:19
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Been watching The Flight Attendant, and it has big DE vibes, at least in terms of the protagonist being a walking dumpster fire with various aspects of her personality frequently arguing with her. There's definitely an Electrochemistry character in there.
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May 27, 2022 23:48
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Owlbear Camus posted:
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May 28, 2022 14:59
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Something I can't get out of my head is the last scene of Beau Travail with Harry Dubois instead of Denis Lavant. Spoilers for the greatest ending in movie history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grGiq0yTaj4
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May 29, 2022 06:03
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wynott dunn posted:Cock Carousel she rides the cock carousel until she's too old to ride it. (depict a carousel of cocks going around merrily)
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May 29, 2022 06:48
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The Clare's did nothing wrong. Stop acting like they are the equivalent of the MI.
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May 29, 2022 14:23
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bop bop perano posted:she rides the cock carousel until she's too old to ride it. (depict a carousel of cocks going around merrily) Then she settles down with a *provider*
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May 29, 2022 14:48
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Been writing some new songs with my buddy for the first time in a few years. Turns out the secret to easy lyric writing is to just lift quotes from your favourite video game where they've already been written by someone more talented. Anyway stay tuned for our forthcoming EP "ice cop hat gently caress show"
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May 30, 2022 01:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlfrkOSHYJI lol I have never seen this scene before. Kim's disappointment in Harry is so powerful that it can kill him physically OR emotionally. Kim is an enormously powerful magus.
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Jun 1, 2022 03:55
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Pattonesque posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlfrkOSHYJI
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Jun 1, 2022 03:59
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sebzilla posted:Been writing some new songs with my buddy for the first time in a few years. Turns out the secret to easy lyric writing is to just lift quotes from your favourite video game where they've already been written by someone more talented. You might wanna be careful with that, several bits of disco elysium straight up are just manic street preachers lyrics.
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Jun 1, 2022 12:15
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It’s just all noise from the pale
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Jun 1, 2022 20:02
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Ran into some great cosplay of Harry and Kim this weekend.
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