US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

«‹›331 »

Dietrich: Sep 11, 2001

Rigel posted:

Its been years since I played around with California splits. You can get 2 reliable blue states, but it gets more difficult to get 3 or more unless you want to make a few small Rhode Islands. San Diego is unreliable from what I remember.

Turn LA into 12 North Dakota population sized states.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:23

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 31, 2024 15:57

Bishyaler: Dec 30, 2009; Megamarm

DarkCrawler posted:

Yeah, take over said party. Maybe doing something else than just promising nice things might work towards it? Can't knock it before the left tries anything else. It's not that the left has done all it can in brutal electoral tussles and dirty political games and been blocked by the evil establishment Democrats, all it has ever done is say nice things and pay ads so more people hear them say nice things and trust in that.

Puerto Rico, DC, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, U.S. Marshall Islands, American Samoa...it doesn't matter if there's three people inhabiting a rock when Wyoming stands next to California.

it's not that it isn't happening, it's that whoever will win such a revolution won't be the left, and if it is the left it won't be the kind of left you'd prefer.

How do you plan to legitimately take over the party when elections are won with money and the party controls who gets the money hose? Progressives have been trying to take over the party and for the most part they've been getting crushed, why would it suddenly start working now? Plus, as we've seen with the Squad, enough time in congress makes you run defense for the establishment. Even people like Sanders who built an entire movement on crushing the establishment eventually bent the knee and started doing PR for them.

I don't know how many years it would take to accomplish this if by some miracle it were even possible, but as a reminder, the Republican's permanent majority in congress starts after midterms this year. What purpose is taking over a party that will never have a congressional majority?

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:25

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

DarkCrawler posted:

Yeah, take over said party. Maybe doing something else than just promising nice things might work towards it? Can't knock it before the left tries anything else. It's not that the left has done all it can in brutal electoral tussles and dirty political games and been blocked by the evil establishment Democrats, all it has ever done is say nice things and pay ads so more people hear them say nice things and trust in that.

Bishyaler posted:

How do you plan to legitimately take over the party when elections are won with money and the party controls who gets the money hose? Progressives have been trying to take over the party and for the most part they've been getting crushed, why would it suddenly start working now? Plus, as we've seen with the Squad, enough time in congress makes you run defense for the establishment. Even people like Sanders who built an entire movement on crushing the establishment eventually bent the knee and started doing PR for them.

I don't know how many years it would take to accomplish this if by some miracle it were even possible, but as a reminder, the Republican's permanent majority in congress starts after midterms this year. What purpose is taking over a party that will never have a congressional majority?

I'd be extremely interested in hearing an answer to this as well, DarkCrawler. Hell, if you think you've got a fool-proof plan that no progressive challenger has ever tried before, I'd even be willing to PM you the direct cell phone number for Jen Perelman's campaign manager - they'd love nothing better than an iron-clad strategy to toss Wasserman-Schultz out on her rear end but we got played hard by Establishment Democrat machinery and Jen ate poo poo in the primary vote.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:29

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Lib and let die posted:

I'd be extremely interested in hearing an answer to this as well, DarkCrawler. Hell, if you think you've got a fool-proof plan that no progressive challenger has ever tried before, I'd even be willing to PM you the direct cell phone number for Jen Perelman's campaign manager - they'd love nothing better than an iron-clad strategy to toss Wasserman-Schultz out on her rear end but we got played hard by Establishment Democrat machinery and Jen ate poo poo in the primary vote.

I'm extremely interested in hearing what people's alternatives plans are.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:41

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531989820246876160
https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531994236614152192

A really good deep dive into how the GOP ground game, taking a page from the book of community organizers and activists decades ago, has become strongly effective and very highly targeted at minority populations.

The most interesting part, illustrative of how they really Get It, is how NOT online it is - to the fact where you practically can't even find these community centers online at all. They're relying entirely on word-of-mouth and free activities to draw people in to be propagandized to.

It's too long to quote, but I'll post some excerpts.

quote:

The community centers were established to bore the opening further, making the appeal directly to racial minorities inside their communities, with an extremely offline, grassroots offering. This wasn�t a soft sell: The centers beckon potential voters with everything from movie nights to free dinners to holiday parties to gun safety trainings, thrown by local organizers and paid for by your friends at the RNC, which has dedicated millions of dollars to the program. If those tactics sound familiar, that�s because they were once used to great effect, by groups as varied as the Black Panthers in Oakland or Democrats in New York�s Tammany Hall.

Many of these facilities are set up in places like Florida and Texas, where Republicans are already assured victory statewide and, thanks to vicious gerrymanders, in most congressional districts. But they�re also in places where the party aspires only to shrink the drastic margins by which they�re losing, places like Philadelphia. Performing better with minorities is an existential matter for Republicans, who cannot win popular elections in an increasingly nonwhite country if they don�t improve with these groups.

The Robeson County center, the RNC�s only outpost in North Carolina, is neither. Republicans flipped long-blue Robeson County to red with Trump on the ticket, but now face a much more onerous task of getting its residents to vote for replacement-level Republicans in off years. Democrats, meanwhile, believed they would win statewide in North Carolina in 2020, in both the presidential election and the Senate, only to come up, in both cases, less than 100,000 votes short; they�re back at it this year to contest for another Senate vacancy.

All of which meant that the votes of North Carolina�s 55,000-member Lumbee Tribe that the RNC is aggressively pursuing could help decide a swing seat in a tied-up Senate, as well as one of the few competitive House races left in the country, NC-07. A majority-nonwhite, poverty-stricken region was the sort of place Democrats once dominated; you could also say it was exactly the sort of place they took for granted.

Multiple Democratic aides told me that they viewed the community center operation as a shambolic nonentity, a �nothingburger,� an earned media play at best, with the minimal online presence as proof.

But one local journalist, who covered the center�s unveiling, encouraged me to not mistake secrecy for inaction. �It�s just really, really boots on the ground,� she told me. �They were all over me when I was there, followed me around the entire time, and ushered me out right after it was over. They gave an award to this young woman for her work with them; they wouldn�t even give me her name.� After forwarding me a contact for the state�s RNC representative, she added, �Good luck.�

quote:

Just two weeks before Election Day, in late October, Trump went to Lumberton for a rally, appealing to the Lumbee specifically on a policy promised equally by his opponent. Soon after, he was running up the score in Robeson. Only 30 percent white, Robeson represented the biggest increase in percentage and total votes of any county in the state. That result was evidence enough for the national Republican Party that with a little extra legwork, there were big results to be won among nonwhites by a party many Americans found patently racist. That thesis was verified in a lengthy Politico profile that sought to get to the bottom of the change.

Economic destitution wrought by trade policy and an absent Democratic Party offered an opening, but there was one other thing that the RNC would�ve noticed that made the region so promising that the Politico piece didn�t touch�accelerating racial tensions between the Black and Native populations. Months before Trump ever set foot in Robeson, the town was roiled by racial enmity.

In June 2020, a small Black Lives Matter protest took to the streets, beginning from the UNC Pembroke campus. Estimates put the march�s attendance at around 150 people, demonstrating, as thousands of American towns did, against police violence. The march didn�t get far before it was set upon by an armed and agitated Lumbee counterprotest, 300 strong, �probably more than that,� said the Rev. Tyrone Watson, president of the Robeson NAACP, who was among the demonstrators. �They had automatic rifles and handguns. It was something that you would see in the �50s.� In a cruel inversion of the Battle of Hayes Pond, the protesters were pelted with bottles and rocks, menaced with knives and guns by Native counterprotesters beneath a large Trump flag.

The Republican Party�s active investment in the region has preyed upon that racial tension, Watson told me, in many cases exacerbating it in an appeal to flip Lumbee voters. Not long ago, both the Black and Lumbee populations were united in voting almost uniformly for Democrats. Now, they have become political opponents. It�s a uniquely Republican way of attracting one racial minority group, by pitting them against another.

Add to that the community center�s outreach and its promise of free events. As of 2019, median household income in Robeson was less than $35,000, with 28 percent of people below the poverty line. �This is a poverty-stricken county,� Watson said. �Anything free is gonna draw a lot of attention.�

When the RNC set up its community center, it picked a location just two blocks from the site of that June confrontation. �When you think of this county, the triracial makeup of it, a third being Native American, a third of them being Black, a third being white, this is just an absolute perfect place,� said Michael Whatley, chairman of the North Carolina Republican Party, at the unveiling. There is not, it should be added, a Black American RNC community center in Robeson, though the Black community has faced similar economic challenges and political abandonment.

Meanwhile, the Democratic Party has done little to counter. �I just feel like they�ve given up on the Democratic voters of Robeson County. You don�t see that effort that you used to see,� added Watson. �They�re turning Robeson County over to the Republican Party.�

Graham told me he was troubled, too, about the tactics he�s been hearing to court Lumbee voters. �I have some real concerns about some of the things they may be doing,� he mentioned. �I don�t want to say they�re buying people�s votes � but they�re trying to entice people.� And beyond the free dinners, Sharum stressed how the RNC was building a shared sense of community, a meeting space in a district without many of them. �There�s also the social element,� she said. �The entire family can go. Not just the nuclear family, I mean grandma, grandpa, everyone.�

quote:

I walked into the center, which was sparsely furnished: a couple of easels sporting the RNC Community Center logo, stickers and flyers for GOP candidates, leaflets barking out the permanent collection of Republican messaging: �voter fraud,� supporting the troops, pro-policing. On the wall facing me hung a framed portrait of RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, with a quote proclaiming her commitment to the Native American community and its place in the Republican Party.

I asked at the desk for the rest of the weekend�s programming, which was written up for me on an index card. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday would feature door-knocking campaigns in Lumberton from 2 to 4 p.m., with a free pizza dinner back at the center Friday night. Saturday evening was a phone-banking event and cookout. Sunday evening had another unspecified event as well. I was pained to find out I�d just missed the Easter egg hunt put on by the center the Saturday prior.

At that point, in walked Cale Lowery, the 20-year-old director of the center, who, with his wispy beard, jeans, and T-shirt, looked even younger. As it was described to me, Lowery was one of three Lumbee organizers employed by the RNC to run the operation, all of them in their teens or twenties. Alina Blue, 19, marked the youngest of the three.

Cale and I had spoken on the phone before when he warned me off attendance, and he approached me haltingly when I introduced myself. I told him of my plan to shadow Jarrod, and we sat down opposite each other. I asked him simple questions about the center�how long it had been open (�since January�), if there was a certain profile of person they were trying to target for recruitment (�I wouldn�t say that�), how much autonomy they have in setting up the events (�the Easter egg hunt we did on our own, but there are some limits on what we can do�). He told me about the appeal of Trump, the frustration with Democrats over the lack of federal recognition of the Lumbee Tribe. I scribbled down some impressions of the room. �I�m not supposed to be talking to press,� he averred, tapping his leg nervously and keeping his eyes on his phone.

�How did you get involved in Republican politics?� I asked. �I�m not allowed to divulge that,� he responded. At that point, he got up to take a phone call and left the room. A minute passed, and he returned. �That was my boss, I�m not allowed to be speaking to press, I�m gonna have to retract all of that,� he told me. �I don�t know if you�ve taken any pictures but please delete them. And then: �I�m gonna have to ask you to give me over your notes.�

At this, of course, I balked. Lowery relented, but told me that an RNC representative would be reaching out to me. And then I was kindly asked to leave.

quote:

The challenge with the ground game is that it�s effective but inefficient. According to an often-cited study from political scientists Alan Gerber and Don Green, one face-to-face conversation can boost a voter�s likelihood to go to the polls by up to 20 percent, which can plausibly change the outcome of a close election. The problem, of course, is getting people to open their front doors and avail themselves of those conversations.

But the RNC�s community center model works year-round rather than just the month before the election, and doesn�t pester voters at home but lures them in. Given the astonishing costs of political advertising now, the cost per voter of renting a center and doling out free pizza is not as inefficient as it once seemed. It borrows, in many ways, from the sustained organizing model of the Bernie Sanders campaign.

�It�s really smart politics,� said Chuck Rocha, president of Solidarity Strategies, who ran the famously successful Latino outreach program for Sanders in 2020. �Because they have unlimited money and support � they can go in and put these community centers up with the facade that they care about the community. What they�re really trying to do is spend a bunch of money just to get three or four more percent of the Black or brown vote.�

One of the first RNC community centers, opened last August, is based in Laredo, a part of South Texas where Democratic support collapsed in 2020, an outcome often blamed on rampant misinformation. �People think because these folks have been nice enough to show up in the community, why would they be here to lie,� Rocha told me. �When, in fact, they�re misleading our community around issues that they stand against.� To my count, there are at least eight Hispanic community centers now in operation.

Democrats don�t have their own community center model, but it�s not like they�ve ceded minority grassroots outreach. The Democratic National Committee has launched a $25 million nationwide initiative aimed at boosting voter protection and education among communities of color, and plans to spend nearly $5 million on a new voter registration program, which prioritizes minority outreach. Both the DNC and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee have been on the ground earlier and more actively during this cycle than in recent years, Rocha told me. But in my conversations with the DNC, the emphasis often returned to ad buys.

For smaller racial groups like Native Americans, even the solitary center I visited could upset the delicate balance in swing states. For example, Arizona�s 450,000 Native Americans make up just over 6 percent of the state�s population. The Navajo Nation has around 67,000 eligible voters, six times the number Biden beat Trump by in the state. Wisconsin, another closely watched swing state, went for Biden by some 20,000 votes. There, the Native population is 145,000 strong. Native votes in both states went overwhelmingly for Democrats. If Republicans were to move into those communities, would those margins hold?

quote:

The next day, I drove to the Black American Community Center in College Park. It was the same routine�referred to an RNC employee who never called me back. When I arrived, the center was also closed.

But the building�s landlord, a man who insisted I refer to him as Mr. David, was on hand. Clearly not briefed on the code of silence, Mr. David offered me a tour of the facility, taking me into its various offices, and its movie room. I crossed glances with that same framed portrait of Ronna McDaniel.

�Are they very active here?� I asked him. �They do so much,� he said. �They�re always doing something. Tea for the women, Easter service, movie screenings � they�re doing something every day.�

He passed me a flyer announcing a door-knocking campaign, beginning that Tuesday and taking place �every Tuesday following starting at 11:00.� The flyer declared that the event was �Open to All��except, of course, journalists.

Black voters have proven to be the single most reliable and dedicated Democratic voting bloc. In 2020, Biden won Black voters by an 81-point margin, with Black women voting Democratic at a roughly 93 percent clip. This was clearly not a group that was going to break Republican. But in an election tight enough that every vote can be credibly said to count, chipping away at those margins even a little bit could prove consequential, and Black voters have been defecting by a few percentage points a year since Obama�s re-election.

�This is such a Democratic neighborhood, do you think they�re actually getting through to people out here?� I asked Mr. David.

�Oh yeah,� he said without hesitation. �They�re definitely getting through to people.�

Of course, there's plenty of mention of the Democratic Party not taking it seriously, which isn't really surprising. But what strikes me most is how this kind of on-the-ground community organizing, providing services and social events for neighbors of all kinds at a local level, used to be one of the most effective leftist moves, and now it's been entirely co-opted by the far right - who seem to know just how important this effort is, given how much trouble they're undertaking to keep national attention away from these efforts to flip individual districts and communities. In a world where politics is more and more becoming national, the GOP are targeting the local level, doing the kind of community outreach that may take years to spread but is ultimately fundamental to driving political change.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:41

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Lib and let die posted:

I'd be extremely interested in hearing an answer to this as well, DarkCrawler. Hell, if you think you've got a fool-proof plan that no progressive challenger has ever tried before, I'd even be willing to PM you the direct cell phone number for Jen Perelman's campaign manager - they'd love nothing better than an iron-clad strategy to toss Wasserman-Schultz out on her rear end but we got played hard by Establishment Democrat machinery and Jen ate poo poo in the primary vote.

I will say I think DarkCrawler and the rest of us are circling around the real answer which is just that the Democrats need to organize people into doing literally anything. Things are broken, people want to fix it, so start giving people ways to fix it. The inability to harness people on the ground and organize them into groups that go more than donate money and vote is the fatal flaw of the Democrats, even if you don't think it's self inflicted it's still one of the things killing them.

Edit: the post above me is an incredible example of basic on the ground organizing that the Democrats should be doing but seem incapable of. Help people and they will vote for you.

Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:45

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009

Main Paineframe posted:

You say that the media influences "elections" and money influences "electoral politics", but that's not quite right. The media influences people. Money influences people. Everyone involved in a political system, all the politicians and voters and lobbyists, are all people.

When the media "influences an election", what that really means is that the voters decided that talking head on the TV was more convincing and trustworthy than you are.

You are completely missing the point of my post by quibbling over what you see as problems of definition and technicality, rather than actual meaning. It's not the gotcha you think and the reasons for that lie in psychology and sociology. Every person has vulnerabilities that can be exploited. The media, individual politicians and political parties use these things to get people to vote for them in order to claim legitimacy and then provide little results. When this is complained about, they give ridiculous reasons and blame voters, who lack significant enough power to make the changes promised to them within the system.

I'm referring to most voters lacking power individually but also as groups- from the smallest to the largest. Saying that people make up systems is almost a truism, that's kinda how they work. The systems themselves are rotten, not just individuals in them who misuse them. This includes the media that absolutely carries water for the system and sometimes individual politicians or parties. Propaganda works. Opinion television, internet shows, podcasts, whatever work. Media based on a limited or distorted set of facts also works, even on people who think they have a good grasp on the issues.

It might influence voters but it is part of a system designed to maintain an unequal, inequitable status quo where a gross amount of power is concentrated among a very few and provide both distraction and ready, often nonsensical or inadequate explanation for why things can't get better and also continually get worse. It explains that the power lies with the people, the many and not the few, which is untrue in the current system barring a radical change in circumstances bordering on impossible. It's part of a con to help maintain and propagate the system in which it resides and itself, as well as aid powerful individuals within it.

Individuals or companies with large amounts of money or reach absolutely do influence those very few people and parties with the vast majority political power. Money is a tool that represents power. The law and the systems that allow for unlimited financing, advertising, propagandizing and also bribery are the conduits for corruption.

Voters have the least amount of power, both because it is diluted across many individuals AND because they don't actually hold most of the power in a so-called democracy, due to the undemocratic systems at play in US law, in the parties, states, political machines separate from the parties themselves, the media, and in capitalism more generally because money is speech and, even with limitations on it, there are both carve-outs to allow unlimited financing of campaigns through "individual action" but also indirect and even direct bribery as long as there is no state quid-pro-quo. Not to mention that the idea of giving campaigns personal loans or loans in general is hugely problematic.

Blaming individual voters or groups for not turning out to fix these problems, when they have the least amount of power to fix the problems is falsity- it's laying blame on the wrong people and also not on the systems, where much of the blame belongs, as well. Especially when the best choice for individual voters is not a politician or party to fix any of these undemocratic problems, nor indeed most-if-any problem affecting their lives, but is instead to vote for a party that will largely do nothing but maintain the status quo for the powerful (while the political status quo disintegrated around them with the rise of fascism), that is completely divorced from them and from grass-roots efforts trying to actually better people's lives. That the politicians and party will not only not try their upmost, but will make a token effort then blame the voters for not giving THEM enough.

Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:46

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Gumball Gumption posted:

I will say I think DarkCrawler and the rest of us are circling around the real answer which is just that the Democrats need to organize people into doing literally anything. Things are broken, people want to fix it, so start giving people ways to fix it. The inability to harness people on the ground and organize them into groups that go more than donate money and vote is the fatal flaw of the Democrats, even if you don't think it's self inflicted it's still one of the things killing them.

This is absolutely one big thing that needs to happen, I agree. Too many fundraising emails too few 'come join us for community-building' messages/events. Its all 'volunteer for us/work for us/pound the pavement for us/write postcards for us/donate donate DONATE.' People have to get something in return other than the occasional pizza.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:52

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

Oracle posted:

This is absolutely one big thing that needs to happen, I agree. Too many fundraising emails too few 'come join us for community-building' messages/events. Its all 'volunteer for us/work for us/pound the pavement for us/write postcards for us/donate donate DONATE.' People have to get something in return other than the occasional pizza.

Yeah, it's always help us and rarely help us help you.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:53

Lib and let die: Aug 26, 2004

Oracle posted:

This is absolutely one big thing that needs to happen, I agree. Too many fundraising emails too few 'come join us for community-building' messages/events. Its all 'volunteer for us/work for us/pound the pavement for us/write postcards for us/donate donate DONATE.' People have to get something in return other than the occasional pizza.

Nina Turner came to town a few months before her election. I got a text from said campaign manager saying "Hey, Nina's coming to town. It'd be great to catch up!" and he attached an image announcing the Q&A session with a "suggested" donation of $50. So far as I've seen the party is wholly incapable of organizing to do anything but fundraise. It might be different where you are, but down here it's grift from the top to the bottom.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 18:56

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

Main Paineframe posted:

https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531989820246876160
https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531994236614152192

A really good deep dive into how the GOP ground game, taking a page from the book of community organizers and activists decades ago, has become strongly effective and very highly targeted at minority populations.

The most interesting part, illustrative of how they really Get It, is how NOT online it is - to the fact where you practically can't even find these community centers online at all. They're relying entirely on word-of-mouth and free activities to draw people in to be propagandized to.

It's too long to quote, but I'll post some excerpts.

Of course, there's plenty of mention of the Democratic Party not taking it seriously, which isn't really surprising. But what strikes me most is how this kind of on-the-ground community organizing, providing services and social events for neighbors of all kinds at a local level, used to be one of the most effective leftist moves, and now it's been entirely co-opted by the far right - who seem to know just how important this effort is, given how much trouble they're undertaking to keep national attention away from these efforts to flip individual districts and communities. In a world where politics is more and more becoming national, the GOP are targeting the local level, doing the kind of community outreach that may take years to spread but is ultimately fundamental to driving political change.

How has it been entirely co-opted by the right when the article itself talks about how it's just copying Bernie Sanders' Latino outreach program in 2020?

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:16

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

rscott posted:

How has it been entirely co-opted by the right when the article itself talks about how it's just copying Bernie Sanders' Latino outreach program in 2020?

Is Bernie still doing that outreach?

Are the Democrats?

Cause if they aren't then yeah that's what that means.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:36

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Bishyaler posted:

How do you plan to legitimately take over the party when elections are won with money and the party controls who gets the money hose?

Elections are not won solely on money. As some other person said, Bloomberg is not president. Elections can be won through various other tactics and have been won, even in United States. In addition, the progressives have money too (just look at their fundraising), they just spend it on ads and not more effective means. Wealthy progressives exist.

quote:

Progressives have been trying to take over the party and for the most part they've been getting crushed, why would it suddenly start working now?

They've "tried to take over the party" in the same way I would have "tried to defeat Mike Tyson" in a fistfight when there's a table of shanks right next to me. Very honorable, but I'd still be eating mush for the rest of my life.

quote:

Plus, as we've seen with the Squad, enough time in congress makes you run defense for the establishment. Even people like Sanders who built an entire movement on crushing the establishment eventually bent the knee and started doing PR for them.

Because it's the only thing left to do to when you can only ask for scraps. Also that sort of tells me progressives are not trying to take over the party.

quote:

I don't know how many years it would take to accomplish this if by some miracle it were even possible, but as a reminder, the Republican's permanent majority in congress starts after midterms this year. What purpose is taking over a party that will never have a congressional majority?

[citation needed] for this "permanent majority" in the House and it is not like those things can't be rectified by playing dirty. The left doesn't play dirty or effective at any level.

Lib and let die posted:

I'd be extremely interested in hearing an answer to this as well, DarkCrawler. Hell, if you think you've got a fool-proof plan that no progressive challenger has ever tried before, I'd even be willing to PM you the direct cell phone number for Jen Perelman's campaign manager - they'd love nothing better than an iron-clad strategy to toss Wasserman-Schultz out on her rear end but we got played hard by Establishment Democrat machinery and Jen ate poo poo in the primary vote.

For one, start agitating people. Make them angry, give them targets, say that they can hurt those targets by voting for you. There's a plan no progressive has ever tried before. It works pretty well for everyone else.

EDIT: also I think DWS has built up corrupt patronage networks which do mobilization on the ground for her, another strategy progressives are not doing. Some of them have networks but they're entirely based on volunteer engagement and actually nice people and not quid pro quo.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:36

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

I thought I read that Puerto Rican citizens wanting statehood was polling at like 50/50? Nope it's 52%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puert...or%20statehood.

Still lower than I'd expect.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

Statehood has won three separate referenda in PR. The issue is entirely the US Senate.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:40

Velocity Raptor: Jul 27, 2007; I MADE A PROMISE
I'LL DO ANYTHING

Discendo Vox posted:

The issue is entirely the US Senate.

Seems to be a recurring issue...

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:43

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

rscott posted:

How has it been entirely co-opted by the right when the article itself talks about how it's just copying Bernie Sanders' Latino outreach program in 2020?

The article says it borrows from the model of the Sanders campaign. Not really sure how you converted that into "copying". But personally, I think even saying that much is rather debatable.

The Sanders campaign tactic was more along the lines of getting door-knockers and phone-bankers on the ground in Latino communities months before the primary date. I certainly wouldn't call that borrowing from the tactics of the Black Panthers. I guess the similarity is that it's treating Latino outreach as a longer-term effort instead of just showing up two weeks before the election, but the scale, tactics, and fundamental objective of the GOP's tactics are all completely different.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:45

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Main Paineframe posted:

https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531989820246876160
https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531994236614152192

A really good deep dive into how the GOP ground game, taking a page from the book of community organizers and activists decades ago, has become strongly effective and very highly targeted at minority populations.

The most interesting part, illustrative of how they really Get It, is how NOT online it is - to the fact where you practically can't even find these community centers online at all. They're relying entirely on word-of-mouth and free activities to draw people in to be propagandized to.

It's too long to quote, but I'll post some excerpts.

Of course, there's plenty of mention of the Democratic Party not taking it seriously, which isn't really surprising. But what strikes me most is how this kind of on-the-ground community organizing, providing services and social events for neighbors of all kinds at a local level, used to be one of the most effective leftist moves, and now it's been entirely co-opted by the far right - who seem to know just how important this effort is, given how much trouble they're undertaking to keep national attention away from these efforts to flip individual districts and communities. In a world where politics is more and more becoming national, the GOP are targeting the local level, doing the kind of community outreach that may take years to spread but is ultimately fundamental to driving political change.

Yeah, I mentioned this novel approach when we were talking about the GOP targeting Latino voters in Texas a while ago.

But I don't know if you can call it "co-opting" when the Democratic party has abandoned any pretense of GOTV, mutual aid or local organizing, which the piece mentions in passing. The author even repeats the stale trope about local organizing being "inefficient," which although it might be true for GOTV it ignores the value of community-wide goodwill that can build up into a voting bloc over time.

And this graf, more than anything, shows the Dem allegiance to that old definition-of-insanity cliche:

quote:

Democrats don�t have their own community center model, but it�s not like they�ve ceded minority grassroots outreach. The Democratic National Committee has launched a $25 million nationwide initiative aimed at boosting voter protection and education among communities of color, and plans to spend nearly $5 million on a new voter registration program, which prioritizes minority outreach. Both the DNC and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee have been on the ground earlier and more actively during this cycle than in recent years, Rocha told me. But in my conversations with the DNC, the emphasis often returned to ad buys.

Of course community centers & free pizza don't provide the consulting grift to revolving-door Dems that ad buys do.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:49

Fart Amplifier: Apr 12, 2003

DarkCrawler posted:

For one, start agitating people. Make them angry, give them targets, say that they can hurt those targets by voting for you. There's a plan no progressive has ever tried before. It works pretty well for everyone else.

This is exactly how every election works already

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:51

Gumball Gumption: Jan 7, 2012

DarkCrawler posted:

Elections are not won solely on money. As some other person said, Bloomberg is not president. Elections can be won through various other tactics and have been won, even in United States. In addition, the progressives have money too (just look at their fundraising), they just spend it on ads and not more effective means. Wealthy progressives exist.

They've "tried to take over the party" in the same way I would have "tried to defeat Mike Tyson" in a fistfight when there's a table of shanks right next to me. Very honorable, but I'd still be eating mush for the rest of my life.

Because it's the only thing left to do to when you can only ask for scraps. Also that sort of tells me progressives are not trying to take over the party.

[citation needed] for this "permanent majority" in the House and it is not like those things can't be rectified by playing dirty. The left doesn't play dirty or effective at any level.

For one, start agitating people. Make them angry, give them targets, say that they can hurt those targets by voting for you. There's a plan no progressive has ever tried before. It works pretty well for everyone else.

EDIT: also I think DWS has built up corrupt patronage networks which do mobilization on the ground for her, another strategy progressives are not doing. Some of them have networks but they're entirely based on volunteer engagement and actually nice people and not quid pro quo.

These are not the ground breaking ideas you think they are and I'll be honest I think this is another case where your view of America is a million miles high and filtered through the internet and TV. A lot of the recent unionization efforts have included tactics like this from leftists. It just isn't elections they're organizing for and the Democrats are not involving themselves in those union pushes the way a real left wing party would.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:51

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Gumball Gumption posted:

I will say I think DarkCrawler and the rest of us are circling around the real answer which is just that the Democrats need to organize people into doing literally anything. Things are broken, people want to fix it, so start giving people ways to fix it. The inability to harness people on the ground and organize them into groups that go more than donate money and vote is the fatal flaw of the Democrats, even if you don't think it's self inflicted it's still one of the things killing them.

Edit: the post above me is an incredible example of basic on the ground organizing that the Democrats should be doing but seem incapable of. Help people and they will vote for you.

You don't need that to keep your seat when you've known every community leader for the past half century, have visited all the community centers dozens of times and have been seen in the flesh by most of your constituents at least once, and your constituency is either urban enough that everyone is operating on existential fear of fascism and just pulls the closest blue lever they can recall, which given the above will be you, or small enough that it doesn't take all that long for incumbency to guarantee name recognition.

The Democratic Party is not interested in winning elections, though. If it was, the opportunities given in my lifetime alone would have made United States a virtual one-party state.They're interested in the bare minimum it takes to have enough influence over things so that the leadership has enough to maintain their positions. It's a career vehicle and in that it is very good.

gumball gumption posted:

these are not the ground breaking ideas you think they are and i'll be honest i think this is another case where your view of america is a million miles high and filtered through the internet and tv. a lot of the recent unionization efforts have included tactics like this from leftists. it just isn't elections they're organizing for and the democrats are not involving themselves in those union pushes the way a real left wing party would.

They're not organizing for elections because they fear to be tarred with the "corrupt unions influencing politics" or "communist agitators" brushes by the media. They should embrace one or both in order to gain power in politics.

EDIT: also no lol there is absolutely nothing ground-breaking about my ideas, they work time and time again and are so simple that literally every type of political organization has grasped them in one point or other in history

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:53

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Jaxyon posted:

Is Bernie still doing that outreach?

Are the Democrats?

Cause if they aren't then yeah that's what that means.

No one has "co-opted" the Dems from lifting a finger to help people in their communities; this was a choice that Democrats & the idiot consultants they hire have made under the auspices of "efficiency" and dollars-per-vote.

And Bernie doesn't owe the Dems poo poo as far as GOTV, Latino or otherwise. He's done his share time & again only to be ratfucked by the party & its leaders.

Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 19:59

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Fart Amplifier posted:

This is exactly how every election works already

It works so for one side in every election. Democrats need a Republican president to gently caress over the country for 4 or 8 years before they have a target to agitate people against. Leftists...well they attack rich people but not really all that venomously and most Americans seem to think that it's biting the hand that feeds them either way and don't want to go too far there.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 20:05

WorkerThread: Feb 15, 2012

DarkCrawler posted:

EDIT: also I think DWS has built up corrupt patronage networks which do mobilization on the ground for her, another strategy progressives are not doing. Some of them have networks but they're entirely based on volunteer engagement and actually nice people and not quid pro quo.

What would a progressive patronage network look like?

# ? Jun 1, 2022 20:07

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

WorkerThread posted:

What would a progressive patronage network look like?

Same as every other patronage network? Only with progressive goals. It's not unheard of in America, even if the progressive goals were generally limited to white people.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 20:08

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Willa Rogers posted:

No one has "co-opted" the Dems from lifting a finger to help people in their communities; this was a choice that Democrats & the idiot consultants they hire have made under the auspices of "efficiency" and dollars-per-vote.

And Bernie doesn't owe the Dems poo poo as far as GOTV, Latino or otherwise. He's done his share time & again only to be ratfucked by the party & its leaders.

Not sure what you think co-opt means or what you're disagreeing with in my post

# ? Jun 1, 2022 20:12

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

quote:

Texas officials had said a teacher propped a door open at Robb Elementary in Uvalde just before the gunman entered and carried out a mass shooting � but they now acknowledge that the woman closed the door, after the teacher's attorney spoke out.

Apparently a teacher needed to lawyer up and correct the ever changing story. What a nightmare.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 20:58

WorkerThread: Feb 15, 2012

DarkCrawler posted:

Same as every other patronage network? Only with progressive goals. It's not unheard of in America, even if the progressive goals were generally limited to white people.

I ask because you actually need power, money, and something to offer for your patronage network. I am anti-progressive but they don't currently have either unless you have such an expansive definition of progressive that it includes people like Nancy Pelosi.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:06

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Uhhhh how bad is this/how badly would this fail?
Placing GOP operatives as poll workers and building a "hotline" to friendly attorneys are among the strategies to be deployed in Michigan and other swing states

quote:

Video recordings of Republican Party operatives meeting with grassroots activists provide an inside look at a multi-pronged strategy to target and potentially overturn votes in Democratic precincts: Install trained recruits as regular poll workers and put them in direct contact with party attorneys.

The plan, as outlined by a Republican National Committee staffer in Michigan, includes utilizing rules designed to provide political balance among poll workers to install party-trained volunteers prepared to challenge voters at Democratic-majority polling places, developing a website to connect those workers to local lawyers and establishing a network of party-friendly district attorneys who could intervene to block vote counts at certain precincts.

�Being a poll worker, you just have so many more rights and things you can do to stop something than [as] a poll challenger,� said Matthew Seifried, the RNC�s election integrity director for Michigan, stressing the importance of obtaining official designations as poll workers in a meeting with GOP activists in Wayne County last Nov. 6. It is one of a series of recordings of GOP meetings between summer of 2021 and May of this year obtained by POLITICO.

Backing up those front-line workers, �it�s going to be an army,� Seifried promised at an Oct. 5 training session. �We�re going to have more lawyers than we�ve ever recruited, because let�s be honest, that�s where it�s going to be fought, right?�

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:10

The Sean: Apr 17, 2005; Am I handsome now?

CmdrRiker posted:

Apparently a teacher needed to lawyer up and correct the ever changing story. What a nightmare.

Hey mods, can you please clamp down on the conspiracy theory of cops blaming teachers for school shootings? This thread seems to be spinning it up based on evidence such as....the cops being cowards?

E: I would report a post, but I don't know what to report it as. Also, holy gently caress, there's so many posters jumping on this bandwagon...

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:10

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

The Sean posted:

Hey mods, can you please clamp down on the conspiracy theory of cops blaming teachers for school shootings? This thread seems to be spinning it up based on evidence such as....the cops being cowards?

E: I would report a post, but I don't know what to report it as. Also, holy gently caress, there's so many posters jumping on this bandwagon...

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102355422/uvalde-shooting-teacher-door

How is it a conspiracy theory? The events were reported erroneously, a teacher hired a lawyer to make the correction, and after reviewing evidence the correction was accepted by Texas officials. Are you trying to make an unfunny joke or something?

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:19

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

I don't think that Latino or Black voters are wrong for moving a way from a party that routinely takes their vote(s) for granted and as a matter of course. Not saying they should vote GOP but what have the democrats done for them besides assume their vote is in the bag? Seriously? That's nothing but condescension. I'm white but can still empathize with how they feel and understand the mindset. Hell, they should be and are rightfully more angry than me right now.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:21

Barrel Cactaur: Oct 6, 2021

Main Paineframe posted:

https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531989820246876160
https://twitter.com/ddayen/status/1531994236614152192

A really good deep dive into how the GOP ground game, taking a page from the book of community organizers and activists decades ago, has become strongly effective and very highly targeted at minority populations.

The most interesting part, illustrative of how they really Get It, is how NOT online it is - to the fact where you practically can't even find these community centers online at all. They're relying entirely on word-of-mouth and free activities to draw people in to be propagandized to.

It's too long to quote, but I'll post some excerpts.

Of course, there's plenty of mention of the Democratic Party not taking it seriously, which isn't really surprising. But what strikes me most is how this kind of on-the-ground community organizing, providing services and social events for neighbors of all kinds at a local level, used to be one of the most effective leftist moves, and now it's been entirely co-opted by the far right - who seem to know just how important this effort is, given how much trouble they're undertaking to keep national attention away from these efforts to flip individual districts and communities. In a world where politics is more and more becoming national, the GOP are targeting the local level, doing the kind of community outreach that may take years to spread but is ultimately fundamental to driving political change.

It doesn't let a perpetual failson consultant line their stomach with ad agency brunch meetings.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:23

Willa Rogers: Mar 11, 2005

Jaxyon posted:

Not sure what you think co-opt means or what you're disagreeing with in my post

When I think of the word "co-opt" I think of, say, how the Democratic Party co-opted the messaging of Occupy as a meaningless campaign slogan in 2012.

What I don't think of is Republicans pursuing GOTV in ways that the Democratic Party hasn't tried, much less abandoned.

So no, I don't agree with this:

quote:

Is Bernie still doing that outreach?

Are the Democrats?

Cause if they aren't then yeah that's what that means.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:29

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Willa Rogers posted:

When I think of the word "co-opt" I think of, say, how the Democratic Party co-opted the messaging of Occupy as a meaningless campaign slogan in 2012.

What I don't think of is Republicans pursuing GOTV in ways that the Democratic Party hasn't tried, much less abandoned.

So no, I don't agree with this:

I mean it literally says they based it on what Bernie did, and are now doing it for their own ends. That's what co-opting is.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:33

Bellmaker: Oct 18, 2008; Chapter DOOF

Wow really getting off to a good start to Pride Month here:

https://twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1532076930274578433?s=20&t=BtuhQ5D88NsVk2JEnfZ7UQ

Who asked for this in 2022??? Tone-deaf to announce this on June 1st given her role in the AIDS crisis.

https://twitter.com/Pinkerton/status/1532021686165438464

This a whole nother level of corporate bullshit what the poo poo :barf:

Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jun 1, 2022

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:39

CmdrRiker: Apr 8, 2016; You dismally untalented little creep!

Wow, who cares. The real takeaway here isn't who did what first, but rather that the Democratic party is severely underestimating the power of grassroots communities tricking people to feel like the can benefit from voting against their best long-term interests.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:41

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

CmdrRiker posted:

Wow, who cares. The real takeaway here isn't who did what first, but rather that the Democratic party is severely underestimating the power of grassroots communities tricking people to feel like the can benefit from voting against their best long-term interests.

Yeah I agree, not sure what the disagreement was.

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:43

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Why is nobody talking about the Leaked Tapes Revealing the Republican Plan to Stock Polling Places With Activists in an attempt to overturn elections??

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 31, 2024 15:57

Velocity Raptor: Jul 27, 2007; I MADE A PROMISE
I'LL DO ANYTHING

Kalit posted:

Hey mods, can you please clamp down on the conspiracy theory of cops shooting children? This thread seems to be spinning it up based on evidence such as....the cops being cowards?

E: I would report a post, but I don't know what to report it as. Also, holy gently caress, there's so many posters jumping on this bandwagon...

Reverend Dr posted:

Hey mods, can you please clamp down on the conspiracy theory of cops shooting children? This thread seems to be spinning it up based on evidence such as....the cops being cowards?

E: I would report a post, but I don't know what to report it as. Also, holy gently caress, there's so many posters jumping on this bandwagon...

The Sean posted:

Hey mods, can you please clamp down on the conspiracy theory of cops blaming teachers for school shootings? This thread seems to be spinning it up based on evidence such as....the cops being cowards?

E: I would report a post, but I don't know what to report it as. Also, holy gently caress, there's so many posters jumping on this bandwagon...

What's up with the botposting?

# ? Jun 1, 2022 21:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US CE Spring 2022: I'm convinced it's useless which is why I argue about it all day every day

«‹›331 »