|
The only time I ever got invited for an exit interview was after we had been to the labour courts and the company in question had been smacked and made to give me a pile of money. I really don't know what they were looking to gain from that 
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 21:16 |
|
|
bamhand posted:I've never quit a company that has had a ping pong table. I have  A ping pong table (that I don't use, I don't like ping pong) doesn't compensate for poo poo pay and having a sociopath as a manager.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 18:50
|
|
|
gbut posted:As long as you don't talk poo poo about specific individuals, or go in guns ablazin' about capitalism and its ills, you'll be fine. So exit interviews are useless in the case of "this particular manager sucks", then?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 19:08
|
|
|
bamhand posted:I've never quit a company that has had a ping pong table. Same. Actually, the only company I was ever fired from was also the only one with a ping pong table. Coincidence? 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 19:13
|
|
|
I quit a ping pong table company. Learned a lot, but it was a weird place. They were also a startup. Not a coincidence, but I've never worked at another startup.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 19:27
|
|
|
Quackles posted:So exit interviews are useless in the case of "this particular manager sucks", then? I probably wouldn't name names but being able to say "Management didn't have enough focus on work/life balance." or something that fits better into an HR checkbox will probably work better.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
Sure, there are things that are beneficial on my end for employees doing exit interviews, which at a competent company would then be used as ammo to convince the CEO/CFO we need to increase compensation/benefits/fire Tim/whatever. But as for a benefit to the employee doing it? Can't think of much there.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 19:43
|
|
|
I think exit interviews are there because people may feel more positively towards the company after unburdening themselves, and it’s not much effort to get that little bit of good will. When I was quitting a previous job, my boss wanted to talk about why I was leaving and I said, “the CEO is an rear end and I don’t like being around him. Also, you didn’t promote me.” My boss said, “yeah, those are good reasons,” and I felt heard and only talk poo poo about that company when it comes up directly.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I probably wouldn't name names but being able to say "Management didn't have enough focus on work/life balance." or something that fits better into an HR checkbox will probably work better. Another fairly safe option is "difference in style" or "perspective". They should see a pattern if multiple people leave due to such differences. If they care to care, I mean.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 22:58
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:Another fairly safe option is "difference in style" or "perspective". Ah, the care2, very rare.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2022 23:11
|
|
|
I mean some places' business model includes loving their employees and most of the rest have departments and roles where they could not care less because it's a commodity to ownership. Care to care.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 02:28
|
|
|
bamhand posted:I've never quit a company that has had a ping pong table. I did, unfortunately having a ping pong table didn't make up for the rampant sexual harassment
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 05:29
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:I mean some places' business model includes loving their employees and most of the rest have departments and roles where they could not care less because it's a commodity to ownership. Hello from the games industry.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2022 13:47
|
|
|
Hey all. Looking for some advice for a friend. She's looking to quit her current job which pays well ($90k) but is very stressful and makes her hate life, for a part-time position which is a step down the ladder. A local (quite large) university seemed to be very interested in hiring her. The role has been readvertised so I believe are also having trouble filling the role. As this is a position at a public university the pay scale publically available $70 - 80K full-time or the equivalent of ~$50 - 60K part-time. She's received a written offer, however, the offered salary is at the very bottom of the scale ($50K). She's taking a pay cut either way, but to make the new job viable she'd need to get close to the top of the range in any negotiation. So far her approach is to: 1) Emphasise that she has 5 years of experience in a position at a higher level as part of a larger team with more responsibilities. 2) She is happy (lol) in her current role and in order to transition the compensation would have to be at XXX level. I have little knowledge regarding where decisions on pay are made at universities and how much room there is for negotiation. I have a feeling that they may have lowballed her due to the lack of degree despite having ample experience. I'm going to reach out to some contacts in the sector but any advice would be appreciated.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 07:11
|
|
|
Mr.Sloth posted:Hey all. Looking for some advice for a friend. What country are you in? Australia specific: generally you will be offered at the bottom of the salary band, not for any personal reasons but just because that's the policy. You can absolutely negotiate up to the top band from there though - I've done it myself multiple times using the same reasoning as your wife, and so have many colleagues. Last time when they asked my salary expectations I just told them that I expected to come in at the top bracket due to my direct experience in both the sector and a similar role, and they ticked it off with no issues. Decisions are made by the hiring manager and will depend on their staffing budget. They might escalate it to the next level if they're having difficulty negotiating (eg they don't want to lose more of their staff budget than they have to) but generally they will have discretion.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 09:38
|
|
|
I've got another software development offer. I have not yet done all the math to include all the perks but it is reasonable gain to base salary. There are parts of the job (such as bullshit unlimited PTO) that I am not thrilled about. I am still reviewing the offer, but I am desperately tired of looking and dealing with recruiters so I have additional motivation to accept. I am hoping not to scare this one off like I did the last time I asked for like 25% extra and the recruiter got all pissy. However, I also know "never not negotiate". Broadly, what is a percentage (greater than zero) I can demand to get something additional out of the deal without adding too much risk? Or does it just not work that way? The two differences are: this recruiter I am dealing with is internal as opposed to external, and this company primarily does contracts for the US Government so I don't know if this means I can ask for more or less.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 09:56
|
|
|
You can ask for whatever you want but USG contracts tend to have some more rigid stipulations on the contractor so I doubt you will be able to get much. Unlimited PTO can be fine if you can actually use it. That’s an important thing to investigate in your interview or with HR. You should frame it fairly neutrally: “I’ve never worked somewhere with an unlimited PTO policy; how does it usually work? On average, how much time are people in my role taking off per year?”
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 11:49
|
|
|
If I'm comfortable with who I'm talking to, I've also asked "How much PTO did you take last year?" Although that was less useful these last few years.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 12:32
|
|
|
Grumpwagon posted:If I'm comfortable with who I'm talking to, I've also asked "How much PTO did you take last year?" Although that was less useful these last few years. Yep, that works well too.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 13:00
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:The two differences are: this recruiter I am dealing with is internal as opposed to external, and this company primarily does contracts for the US Government so I don't know if this means I can ask for more or less. Weighing in as someone who has worked software development at defense contractors: you can absolutely ask for more, don’t treat this negotiation any differently. Defense (like everyone else) is facing absurd attrition rates right now, and they are even more desperate for people because real software devs don’t want to go work in a windowless room without personal electronics when other places will allow them to work from home. That being said, if this place is primarily a defense contractor and that is the kind of work they’re recruiting you for… I’d recommend you either ask for a poo poo ton or just walk the other way now. Development in defense is mired with hilariously outdated development tools and dinosaurs who refuse to learn anything newer than their precious Ada. EDIT: As a quick side note, is this for one of the big defense contractors, or just a place that happens to also do government contracts? (I realize I made an assumption that government contracts meant defense when that may not necessarily be the case) If it’s one of the big DoD firms, I only know of one with “unlimited PTO” and it isn’t true unlimited PTO. It’s actually four weeks of unrestricted use (take time off whenever/however you want), and then if you need any more time beyond that, it is unlimited but must be approved by the manager. I think recruiters just tell people it’s “unlimited” to make them sound like hot poo poo. Gin_Rummy fucked around with this message at 14:48 on May 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:Broadly, what is a percentage (greater than zero) I can demand to get something additional out of the deal without adding too much risk? Or does it just not work that way? 10% is basically always going to be listened to (not necessarily given, but you can consider it a floor). 20% is usually pretty safe, but that obv depends on what the offer is. The risk isn't them walking away, thats rare and usually them doing you a favor. The risk is the recruiter goes "This schmo isn't being realistic and probably doesn't know what they're doing, just hold firm". If you think the offer makes market sense, and you want to be conservative, I'd still ask 10%. I feel like you can still comfortably ask for more, like 15-20% but I don't know your situation, you sound like you want to be cautious, and like KGJ said USG contracts typically have a lot less wiggle.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You can ask for whatever you want but USG contracts tend to have some more rigid stipulations on the contractor so I doubt you will be able to get much. Yeah, I asked them that and they said 3-5 weeks and I am not sure if they're lying. I'd rather just actually have a loving allotment. But at least the number they said was better than the last place where they said it was closer to 12 days which is just  Gin_Rummy posted:EDIT: As a quick side note, is this for one of the big defense contractors, or just a place that happens to also do government contracts? (I realize I made an assumption that government contracts meant defense when that may not necessarily be the case) It is not a big defense contractor. Looking at my sources, it seems that as a matter of total compensation, it seems competitive so I guess I'll be conservative. Even 10% more seems like a lot when I do the math, but I guess the idea is they come down to like 5%. Maybe I'll start real conservative at like 7% and just get what I can get, what with the situations that mean they might not even be able to shift on it. Which sort of makes me wonder if it's worth the risk, and if it's such a small amount of money, they'll look and say, "You're accepting anyway, gently caress you."
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2022 21:28
|
|
|
They have no way to know you’d accept anyway unless you go out of your way to tell them that. My last offer cycle was pretty ridiculous, but even after the needless scramble, I did still sign my original offer. They’ll either slide up closer to what you want, or say “nope this is it”. Then you decide if that’s enough. There’s plenty of stress without wondering if they can see your underwear.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2022 00:52
|
|
|
REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:They have no way to know you’d accept anyway unless you go out of your way to tell them that. What if they CAN see my underwear?!?!? 
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2022 21:08
|
|
|
Wear your fancy pair. Power move. 
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Wear your fancy pair. Power move. Nah, that just shows them you're desperate. The power move is commando.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
I know there's a more relevant clip from Friends specifically for "going commando", but this was actually my first thought https://youtu.be/5M1MFKmjRJI
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2022 01:13
|
|
|
Jumpsuit posted:What country are you in? Yeah based in Australia. What you mentioned about pay bands seems to track with what I heard from a few friends. Thanks for the information it's good to have an idea of how it works. I'll relay it to my friend and tell her to aim for the higher band.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2022 02:06
|
|
|
How long until after making a counter offer should I get back in touch? Or should I not at all? And at what point do I give up and start looking at other recruiter communications again?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 20:35
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:How long until after making a counter offer should I get back in touch? Or should I not at all? And at what point do I give up and start looking at other recruiter communications again? I follow up weekly to make sure they're breathing. once the HR person said it would go faster if I would accept the original offer, to which I replied "no I can wait" and got my full counter the next week.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2022 21:57
|
|
|
Not a Children posted:Yup. Take the highest number you're willing to say, add 20% to that, then pin on the words "negotiable based on benefits and the specifics of the role" I'll try this next time, YOSPOS was telling me to say "market-rate" and was all like but I'm afraid that someone entering the job market doesn't have the standing to do something that brash
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2022 14:23
|
|
|
Nah, saying "Market Rate" is fine and not rude or brash or anything. You just might get push back again to name a number.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2022 14:28
|
|
|
galenanorth posted:I'll try this next time, YOSPOS was telling me to say "market-rate" and was all like Don't say a number is a basic catch-all negotiation rule, things change once you get a sense of your worth within your industry and more importantly what would make you happy given the role and its responsibilities and how that plays into your life "Don't say a number" is always a good strategy and especially shines if you A) have no idea what you can get and B) will experience a life changing level of compensation if the negotiation is successful. If you're in a good position to walk away from a deal and have developed a sense of what will make you happy to make a move you can cut through the song and dance by simply demonstrating how much you kick rear end, then asking for more than what will make you happy and you're good Lockback posted:Nah, saying "Market Rate" is fine and not rude or brash or anything. You just might get push back again to name a number. This is 100% true and the correct response to being harassed for a number is to defer to needing to know the full scope of the responsibilities and benefits of the offer. If they keep pressing you just repeat: "I will not discuss salary expectations at this time." Ignore any attempts to shame or goad. Not a Children fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jun 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2022 14:37
|
|
|
The correct solution to an exit interview is make sure it's scheduled for 4:30pm on your last day, then schedule a doctor or dentists appointment on top of it, and leave the office at 3:30pm
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2022 21:55
|
|
|
Lol please don't. Just hit da bricks. It's not like you gotta do it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 02:42
|
|
|
One of my exit interviews was just questions from legal about if I was taking any files with me when I left. I assume I'd have been in trouble if I had tried to skip that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 15:47
|
|
|
I messed up my negotiations. They wouldn't name a number first, so I went with $155k, knowing I'd accept $140k or above after negotiations. Their initial salary offer is for $160k.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 16:13
|
|
|
 demonstration of why companies turn the screws so hard to pressure the candidate to name a number first. They just got you for way under what they were willing to pay and you can't credibly ask for more now.Still, you got a salary you're happy with and the information that you're still being paid under market, which should give you confidence to go out job hunting again with better information in about two years (or less, if you're adventurous). Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jun 4, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
MrLogan posted:I messed up my negotiations. They wouldn't name a number first, so I went with $155k, knowing I'd accept $140k or above after negotiations.  Good you’re at least getting paid 20k more than you’d be happy with!
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 21:16 |
|
|
MrLogan posted:I messed up my negotiations. They wouldn't name a number first, so I went with $155k, knowing I'd accept $140k or above after negotiations. Don’t let this bother you too much, you’ll have another kick at it in a few years and at least for now you’re making way more than you though you would take to be happy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2022 18:13
|
|
