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bamhand posted:One of my exit interviews was just questions from legal about if I was taking any files with me when I left. I assume I'd have been in trouble if I had tried to skip that.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:29
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Jordan7hm posted:Don’t let this bother you too much, you’ll have another kick at it in a few years and at least for now you’re making way more than you though you would take to be happy. Well said. There are much worse spots to be in.
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Jun 4, 2022 18:55
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Yeah sounds great. You found a company that is paying you what you wanted and more. Despite an absolutely legitimate option to gently caress you over, they chose to do right by you. Hell, maybe their range wasn't that much higher anyway.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:30
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Arquinsiel posted:If they failed to ask you that prior to the exit interview and you skipped or declined the interview then it's really their fault. I'm pretty sure legally, they would be in a position to gently caress you over though.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:33
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bamhand posted:I'm pretty sure legally, they would be in a position to gently caress you over though.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:37
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Which then becomes my problem when they threaten to sue me unless I answer the questions. Really not sure how you think this would play out.
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Jun 4, 2022 19:50
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Is there any world in which someone says "yes"? It just seems like one of those things they have to ask so they can say they asked if it turns out you did. If you're not trying to steal company secrets or whatever, obviously you wouldn't take your files with you. If you did, it's not like you're going to say "yeah, I took all the code for the new thing you were working on, Google seemed really excited about it during my interviews."
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Jun 4, 2022 19:53
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bamhand posted:Which then becomes my problem when they threaten to sue me unless I answer the questions. Really not sure how you think this would play out.
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Jun 4, 2022 20:52
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Unless your contract says that cashing in the rest of your PTO or whatever is contingent on an exit interview, what are they suing you for, exactly? Not giving them your free time?
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Jun 5, 2022 02:19
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MrLogan posted:I messed up my negotiations. They wouldn't name a number first, so I went with $155k, knowing I'd accept $140k or above after negotiations. Hot drat Eric is extremely cynical. It is a bonus for folks looking to find some temerity. That said, what does "Their initial salary offer is for $160k" mean? Do you now know the pay band was $160k at the entry or was it just that you asked for $155k and they offered $160k? I'm just curious. I get the impression that people think "if I get a kick rear end offer that pays me what I am worth I can stop looking for new jobs". Truly though, one never stops looking. Even if they threw $200k at you, you'd be looking again in two years. Congrats on hitting above your target. Good luck in your next search.
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Jun 5, 2022 02:26
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Arquinsiel posted:You're jumping over several step and assuming you made the worst choice at each one to get to the worst case scenario here. No, I mean they will demand you come back for the exit interview or there will be legal action. The worst choice would have been to skip the exit interview because it's "their problem". Just because you didn't do anything wrong doesn't mean they're going to let you skip officially attesting that fact to them. bamhand fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 03:20
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bamhand posted:No, I mean they will demand you come back for the exit interview or there will be legal action. The worst choice would have been to skip the exit interview because it's "their problem". What legal action?
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Jun 5, 2022 03:27
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That they will sue you if you don't officially attest to them you're not taking anything with you when you leave. Something that you most likely won't have the resources to fight regardless of what merit there is to it. Like if this is the company's process for letting someone go, why go out of your way to mess it up? What possible good will that do you? bamhand fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 03:35
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I occasionally have lapses in imagination so it would help if you pointed me to a case or two of that happening.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:37
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Alright man, if you don't think companies will arbitrarily sue people that's fine. Spending 15 minutes doing an exit interview is no skin off my back. Why risk it? There's no upside.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:38
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I agree that it's really nbd doing an exit interview and sort unnecessarily antagonistic to decline but uhmm I'm not exactly clear on what they could sue for.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:52
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It's part of their process for you to confirm you're not taking anything with you when you leave. I feel like it's likely they are going to follow up with you if you don't do that.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:53
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bamhand posted:Alright man, if you don't think companies will arbitrarily sue people that's fine. Spending 15 minutes doing an exit interview is no skin off my back. Why risk it? There's no upside. I think part of the mission of this thread is to stop people from catastrophizing over getting companies mad at you, usually because it puts you in a worse negotiation position, but it's just generally bad for your health.
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Jun 5, 2022 03:56
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Are we still talking about the US and a position not bound by a contract? Now granted, I'm just an HR guy that hasn't worked in tech, but if so, lol.
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Jun 5, 2022 04:07
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bamhand posted:It's part of their process for you to confirm you're not taking anything with you when you leave. I feel like it's likely they are going to follow up with you if you don't do that. I understand that a career in HR has warped your ability to perceive objective reality but I would like to urge you to rethink the foundation of your entire position here. "Oh sorry I missed the meeting on my calendar, I was busy working on the hand-off to my successor" is a nigh-bulletproof talking point I came up with in 10 seconds and I'm dumb as hell.
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Jun 5, 2022 05:09
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bamhand posted:No, I mean they will demand you come back for the exit interview or there will be legal action. The worst choice would have been to skip the exit interview because it's "their problem".
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Jun 5, 2022 05:34
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I'm making it a personal policy to do no exit interviews regardless, primarily because they serve no profit to me and could only potentially hurt me. If they want to know that I stole all of WIlly Wonka's secrets for the Everlasting Gobstopper, then the HR oompa loompas can just ask me while I am still their employee in the 79 hours and 45 minutes before the exit interview. Also, modern IT departments already monitor what you're doing. I only know the broad strokes of the mechanism, but instead of asking you, they can probably just ask the guy in the Babyon 5 tee-shirt if you downloaded weird poo poo, or accessed the entire database and offshored it in Ecuador for some reason. Then they can sue you for the actual harm instead of attempting to sue to compel your testimony. Also also, I'm not a lawyer and I am not your lawyer, so I don't know for sure. It's my understanding that a court will probably subpoena you if you're being sued for a breach of contract or something. However, will they subpoena a defendant (not a witness) to testify to whether they committed that breach of contract? That sounds like barratry or a fishing expedition, and terribly likely not to gain traction unless the plaintiff had submitted evidence. Again, if they had the evidence, then just cut out the loving middleman and sue the guy for the conduct because his testimony will then be compelled under oath. Also also also, even if suing or the threat of suing was an effective way of imposing fealty to HR and to your IP rights, is it really worth the reputational risk? Don't you think word would get around that this company is suing its former employees, and that might make people hesitant to join or might make your business partners look for alternatives from your competitors? Like, we can all laugh at Glassdoor being a lovely Yelp for corporate America, but the internet exists and word could get around. This is on top of the already made points that this is incredibly unlikely to be effective since someone who wants to conduct corporate espionage is not going to admit to it because some Peter Principle chucklefuck asked nicely. Also 4X this: Absurd Alhazred posted:I occasionally have lapses in imagination so it would help if you pointed me to a case or two of that happening. Maybe this is happening all over and I never heard about it, but I'm not going to worry until I see evidence.
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Jun 5, 2022 13:23
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Boot and Rally posted:Hot drat Eric is extremely cynical. It is a bonus for folks looking to find some temerity. I asked for $155k and they offered $160k.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:25
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This is getting way off topic so I'm going to stop after this post. But I wasn't saying they are going to jump to suing you immediately. Most likely they will contact you nicely to ask the questions that they want to ask. It was a super quick 10 minutes. But I don't see the company taking an absolute refusal to cooperate well. In fact, wouldn't that give them suspicion that you were up to something? And then want to dig further? Maybe I'm way off base. Also I'm in finance, not tech, if that matters.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:35
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lol
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Jun 5, 2022 15:36
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bamhand posted:This is getting way off topic so I'm going to stop after this post. But I wasn't saying they are going to jump to suing you immediately. Most likely they will contact you nicely to ask the questions that they want to ask. It was a super quick 10 minutes. But I don't see the company taking an absolute refusal to cooperate well. In fact, wouldn't that give them suspicion that you were up to something? And then want to dig further? Maybe I'm way off base. Also I'm in finance, not tech, if that matters. 
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Jun 5, 2022 15:38
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But were the questions about if you did anything illegal before you left the company? I'm not talking about asking you if you didn't like your boss or something.
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Jun 5, 2022 15:41
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Magnetic North posted:I'm making it a personal policy to do no exit interviews regardless, primarily because they serve no profit to me and could only potentially hurt me. If they want to know that I stole all of WIlly Wonka's secrets for the Everlasting Gobstopper, then the HR oompa loompas can just ask me while I am still their employee in the 79 hours and 45 minutes before the exit interview. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the fifth amendment is that your testimony cannot be compelled as a defendant in the US.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:10
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bamhand posted:I'm way off base.
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Jun 5, 2022 16:51
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leper khan posted:I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the fifth amendment is that your testimony cannot be compelled as a defendant in the US. I also continue to not be a lawyer. I considered that but this is civil law and not criminal law so I don't remember if that makes a difference.
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Jun 5, 2022 18:13
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bamhand posted:But were the questions about if you did anything illegal before you left the company?
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Jun 5, 2022 20:02
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fourwood posted:Is everyone in finance just assumed to be guilty of a lot of poo poo or what? Yes.
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Jun 5, 2022 20:07
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Magnetic North posted:I also continue to not be a lawyer. I considered that but this is civil law and not criminal law so I don't remember if that makes a difference. In the US it doesn't, a defendant can never be required to testify. Theoretically a judge/jury isn't allowed to consider a defendant declining to testify as evidence of their guilt, but in practice ha ha ha. Anyway no one has ever been sued for refusing to do an exit interview unless they signed a contract guaranteeing one in some esoteric case.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:19
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Also, you probably already signed a form saying you weren't going to steal any files when you joined so there's no point in asking again.
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Jun 5, 2022 21:43
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fourwood posted:Is everyone in finance just assumed to be guilty of a lot of poo poo or what? Who knows what they’re financing 
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Jun 6, 2022 02:02
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bamhand posted:This is getting way off topic so I'm going to stop after this post. But I wasn't saying they are going to jump to suing you immediately. Most likely they will contact you nicely to ask the questions that they want to ask. It was a super quick 10 minutes. But I don't see the company taking an absolute refusal to cooperate well. In fact, wouldn't that give them suspicion that you were up to something? And then want to dig further? Maybe I'm way off base. Also I'm in finance, not tech, if that matters. Do you have any idea how much it costs to sue someone?
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Jun 6, 2022 10:47
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Do the exit interview and bill them for the 15 minutes at your consulting rate. Your consulting rate is also only billed in hour-long increments incidentally. edit: that's only half a joke. I had one really terrible ex-employer who kept bothering me with questions about something I'd set up for them, and quoting them my consulting rate was the only thing that got them to gently caress off. Turns out they were totally willing to email me and even call my personal number to ask about poo poo that I tried to document for them when I was working there, but the second it was going to cost them something they hosed off.
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Jun 6, 2022 12:51
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I don't understand the goon aversion to an exit interview. If they are scheduling it during your paid working time, you should give professional, polite feedback. There's lots of examples of companies using that feedback to improve the conditions, and enough people saying "Yeah, I am leaving for better compensation" is how you lift the tide in an industry. If you're concerned an exit interview will tarnish your professional reputation then ditching it certainly won't help, but you're leaving either way so it's not going to hurt you. Don't be whiny or try to throw mud or settle scores, but you can be direct. In my past 2 jobs I have seen compensation, PTO and even medical insurance options change driven by exit interviews. But lol, no one is going to sue you unless you're in a very, very specific situations that is well beyond "getting advice from strangers on a dead forum" scope.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:50
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Lockback posted:I don't understand the goon aversion to an exit interview. If they are scheduling it during your paid working time
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Jun 6, 2022 15:56
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Yeah refusing to do it at all is usually pretty dumb, it just annoys HR* and there's no upside. You're being paid anyway so at minimum there's no harm to you in just sitting there for a half hour and reciting platitudes so HR can tick some boxes and file some paperwork. * Potentially bad for you in two ways: you might want to return to the company someday and an annoyed HR person may mark you ineligible for rehire; and the HR person you annoy on your way out might be the newly hired HR person with jurisdiction over your department at your new employer next year. Arquinsiel posted:This is a big "if". 100% of my experience has been asking me to come back on my own time for it. Once after they'd had a judgement rendered against them in court. I've never personally seen this but a big fuckin'  at it. Quote them a consulting rate if they want your time after you're no longer their employee.
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Jun 6, 2022 15:57
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