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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:let's see how lightfoot is doing these days Wow Blue Fascism Her along with Eric Adams don’t give me hope for the party. Not that I had much given a lot of other people in the party. I’m just gonna notch this as another reason why when fascism comes, the Dems won’t do much
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Jun 7, 2022 20:22
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HonorableTB posted:Lmao everyone is pissed off and has a bleak outlook for the future and this seems to be a nationwide outlook among everyone and the political class is completely unable to do anything about it. The PNW is the same way. Everything we won in the 2020 protests was just given away at the ballot box. Nothing mattered One of the reasons I stopped paying attention to US politics is that we don't seem to get anywhere on the big debates of our time: guns, abortion, healthcare, cost of living, etc. They are always just the same debate between "maybe we should do a little better for some people some of the time, as long as the rich get richer" and "grind the poor into a paste for my dog and make sure to turn a profit doing it." The debate here in Los Angeles feels like it is between whether landlords or the police get a bigger share of my paycheck to become even bigger assholes and the answer will likely be both. I'm doing fairly well personally, and I have no hope whatsoever that the American political system at any level will fix any of the problems I am facing, let alone the larger problems that other people are facing.
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Jun 7, 2022 20:29
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CmdrRiker posted:"Explicitly bar pregnancy-related prosecutions" is going to be a hard sell that turns into "not caring about pregnant women." That is a terrible law, but was hopefully written to provide an extra penalty to anyone assaulting a pregnant woman if she incurred additional trauma due to being pregnant. Which is less about recognizing a fetus as a person and more about recognizing that pregnancy is an experience that can psychologically affect the woman. While that's a commonly cited justification for the law, it doesn't apply to trauma suffered by the pregnant woman because she's pregnant - it applies specifically to trauma suffered by the fetus. The clause in question is extremely simple: quote:Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought. That's it. They added "or a fetus" to California's definition of murder. Not exactly a nuanced examination of the pains and traumas a pregnant woman faces when they lose a pregnancy. I suspect the real reasoning behind it was part of the national trend of TOUGH ON CRIME prosecutors and legislators eager to pad violent crime sentences any way they could - such as charging someone for TWO cases of murder if they killed a pregnant woman. The moral outrage of URBAN CRIMINALS and VIOLENT SUPERPREDATORS (we all remember the forceful rhetoric of the heyday of TOUGH ON CRIME, complete with the barely-veiled racism) made it easy to sell all kinds of tacked-on sentence increases, especially in concert with the rise of the War On Drugs.
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Jun 7, 2022 20:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I swear to god we're reaching the literal point of bags of money with dollar signs on them levels of corruption and we're not able to do anything about it but watch. It's so bizarre watching this kind of thing happen. For a long time I had thought the Dems were safe ish as a party because while they were much closer to center than I ever wanted, they were left-er on finance and social issues than the Republicans; the Republicans were fascists obsessed with Christian nonsense and supporting the wealthy, while the Dems were nominally interested in helping poors and minorities, even if it was half hearted and shallow. The Republicans continue to be monsters but have shown a savy the Dems lack, which is material outreach among the poor. We had Trumps Covid payouts, the community center outreach, gas cards now - none of it addresses core issues and yet its immediate and visceral in a way that means tested loan targeting is not. We're witnessing the Republicans learning how to rebrand themselves as populist supporters who are also Chrstian fascists, and the Dems are trying to do reheated Clinton-era nothing. Certainly the parties haven't truly flipped but right now if you turn your head far enough you could argue that the Dems are the party of the rich and the GOP the party of the poor which is just so bizarre. It's not really true but you can see how a person could argue it is and that's so strange.
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Jun 7, 2022 20:49
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Mendrian posted:It's so bizarre watching this kind of thing happen. It makes a lot more sense when you realize that the Republicans are actually a political party in the aggregate while the Democrats are more like a big guild whose primary trade is marketing
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Jun 7, 2022 21:05
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Mendrian posted:It's so bizarre watching this kind of thing happen. Heck, a few months back we found out that the White House considered sending out gas cards to people but changed their mind because of worries about "fraud". And gas prices certainly haven't gotten better since then! Not that it'd be a perfect solution; the obvious answer is to just give people money because hey those stimulus payments were very popular and were also one of the more effective measures against poverty in decades. But at this point I'd take an imperfect solution and considering Biden's approval ratings at this point, what's the worst that could happen? Why, I suppose the people that never stopped saying that the stimulus checks caused inflation would continue to say such things and the people that already think he's some sort of radical communist would still believe it. Business as usual.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:35
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Mendrian posted:The Republicans continue to be monsters but have shown a savy the Dems lack, which is material outreach among the poor. We had Trumps Covid payouts, the community center outreach, gas cards now - none of it addresses core issues and yet its immediate and visceral in a way that means tested loan targeting is not. Objectively the Rs are the party of the poor if they are doing this style of outreach and Dems are not. Not saying it isn’t happening but more inviting to be proven wrong  Specifically I’m referring to direct impact to folks’ pocket book that has a “brought to you by the Democratic Party” stamp on it. I am NOT referring to “correct the record” style bullshit that requires folks to be policy wonks to potentially grasp (and even then it’s usually a lie such as why Dems killed free school lunch). theCalamity posted:Wow Blue Fascism This is actual fascism and not fake pearl clutching fascism liberals like to cry about when leftists demand Dems use the powers granted to them for good. Edit: before anyone accuses me of support Rs, I am not. But if one party is giving the poor community direct financial gains and another is pretending to do it via political chess, which would you say the public is going to better understand. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 21:36
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theCalamity posted:Wow Blue Fascism Calumny! They'll be out there front and center, pushing for access ramps to the re-education christianization camps so handicapped people can be brainwashed as equals, or tirelessly triangulating to ensure the seats on the endless fields of murder-drone control pods are made of recycled materials.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:37
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I don't understand how the Republicans say there is no evidence of price gouging because oil is a global commodity set by the global market. How is the oil cartel limiting supply and not invest in more production not the equivalent of manipulating the market? How are free gas vouchers from a political party not bribery? Main Paineframe posted:While that's a commonly cited justification for the law, it doesn't apply to trauma suffered by the pregnant woman because she's pregnant - it applies specifically to trauma suffered by the fetus. Thanks. Nothing else to add except yikes.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:48
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Main Paineframe posted:While that's a commonly cited justification for the law, it doesn't apply to trauma suffered by the pregnant woman because she's pregnant - it applies specifically to trauma suffered by the fetus. The California "fetal protection" law was initially passed in 1970, before even Roe was handed down (although I'm pretty sure abortion was legal in California then) and decades before "super-predators" became a Clinton-era trope. Interestingly, the CA state supreme court made the law even stricter in 2004, by a vote of 6-1: quote:The state Supreme Court strengthened California’s fetal-murder law Monday, declaring that the killing of a pregnant woman counts as two homicides even if the perpetrator was unaware the victim was pregnant. which winds back to the point I've been making for several weeks that so-called fetal protection laws have served as the same sort of slippery slope that Casey has in eroding bodily autonomy. A reminder that 38 states have these laws, and there's a federal law as well. If Dem politicians are concerned about abortion rights beyond their utility as fundraising tools this would be a great place to start! At the very least, there should be strong pushback on the current spin that red states are sending women to prison for miscarriages & stillbirths that's free of the context of these laws.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:56
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If the gas cards are bribery then the Democrats should use this new precedent to commit their own bribery and hand out bigger gas cards since there's no risk of opening up a path for the Republicans anymore.
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Jun 7, 2022 21:58
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Gumball Gumption posted:If the gas cards are bribery then the Democrats should use this new precedent to commit their own bribery and hand out bigger gas cards since there's no risk of opening up a path for the Republicans anymore. Oops was wrong per the below post. Meatball fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 22:03
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Gumball Gumption posted:If the gas cards are bribery then the Democrats should use this new precedent to commit their own bribery and hand out bigger gas cards since there's no risk of opening up a path for the Republicans anymore. They already did. California, New York, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Maine, and Massachusetts all have sent out or are sending out gas rebate checks for between $300 and $800. Direct payments don't seem to actually drive voting, though. Bush had 4 stimulus checks that most people forgot about and other direct payment programs that are just one-time payments don't seem to impact approval ratings or vote percentage. There was a poll in June 2021 that showed that less than 1/3 of voters remembered that Biden or Trump had sent out stimulus checks. So, it's not really clear if there is no impact because nobody remembers, it doesn't move votes at all, or they were too far from the election.
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Jun 7, 2022 22:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There was a poll in June 2021 that showed that less than 1/3 of voters remembered that Biden or Trump had sent out stimulus checks. So, it's not really clear if there is no impact because nobody remembers, it doesn't move votes at all, or they were too far from the election. Do you have a link to this poll? Also, did you mean whether it was Biden or Trump who sent them money, or that 2/3 of voters didn't recall getting any money at all? In any case, people will likely remember the aid that came to a screeching halt under Biden, at least for the midterm elections. Who knows what other horrors will be wrought by 2024. 
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Jun 7, 2022 22:15
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Willa Rogers posted:Do you have a link to this poll? Also, did you mean whether it was Biden or Trump who sent them money, or that 2/3 of voters didn't recall getting any money at all? I don't have it offhand, but I can check the RCP polls archives when I get home and it is probably on there. It was asking people two questions "Did you receive a stimulus check from President X?" and both answers were about ~40% not sure, ~35% yes, and ~25% no. This was only about 3 months after the Biden stimulus payments had gone out.
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Jun 7, 2022 22:27
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They already did. California, New York, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Maine, and Massachusetts all have sent out or are sending out gas rebate checks for between $300 and $800. Voters are insane and can't be trusted to do anything philosophically coherent, so your only choice is to constantly help them, basically
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Jun 7, 2022 22:34
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Voters are insane and can't be trusted to do anything philosophically coherent, so your only choice is to constantly help them, basically It's not really consistent and everyone has individual priorities and things they respond to that seem insane in the aggregate. There's plenty of programs people don't benefit from that they support and remember exist. Half of rural voters think that stimulus payments and enhanced unemployment were just automatic things that kicked in and not the result of either party. https://actionnetwork.org/user_files/user_files/000/059/832/original/RuralObjective_toplines.pdf As mentioned earlier, South Dakota voters narrowly support legalizing weed and expanding Medicaid, but also overwhelmingly support politicians opposed to those policies. Sometimes, people support policies, but don't vote on them (see the 60-70% support for background checks and 45% support for banning handguns.) There's lots of individual rational reasons for doing things that make no sense in the aggregate if you assume everyone is operating on the same priorities and decisionmaking process. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 22:52
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Wait, is that the poll that you previously said showed that "less than 1/3 of [all, not just rural] voters remembered that Biden or Trump had sent out stimulus checks" or another one? I've scanned the poll and see nothing close to the results you claimed. Which number of the poll are you referencing to back up your original statement?
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Jun 7, 2022 23:17
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Willa Rogers posted:Wait, is that the poll that you previously said showed that "less than 1/3 of [all, not just rural] voters remembered that Biden or Trump had sent out stimulus checks" or another one? Different one. That one just has a good example of how some voters don't associate policy with politics and think some of it is automatic.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:19
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I thought Matthew McConaughey speaking at the press conference today was going to be really silly, but it was a brutal and depressing speech with the families of the people killed in Uvalde and included reading letters from the kids who were killed and those who survived. Really worth a listen. Full speech: https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1534289564197699584 Some highlights: https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1534256476235104261 https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1534245404581236737 https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1534246636402221059
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Jun 7, 2022 23:35
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They already did. California, New York, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Maine, and Massachusetts all have sent out or are sending out gas rebate checks for between $300 and $800. Newsom did a press release for the one in California but it has died a grizzly death in the state legislature so it could be means tested to death. Last I checked there were like seven competing proposals now.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:39
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I specifically did not want to listen because it is Matthew McConaughey. I hate that our culture wont listen to the victims but invites a celebrity to their platform. But I am glad he is using his fame for a good purpose--to embolden people to hold officials responsible for legislation that can save lives. It was a good speech. Thanks.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:43
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Objectively the Rs are the party of the poor if they are doing this style of outreach and Dems are not. Literally one page off of SD republicans pulling out all the stops to crush expanded Medicaid, a thing they vehemently oppose, you drop this line. The point of gas card and gas rebates are to distract you from the fact that the party is screwing you much worse in favor of rich people elsewhere. Here you have demonstrated how effective that is, on yourself.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:49
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Republicans are pretending to be the party of the poor. The Democrats aren’t even pretending.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:51
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TipTow posted:Republicans are pretending to be the party of the poor. The Democrats aren’t even pretending. By not expanding medicaid, a thing that Democrats have actively pushed for?
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Jun 7, 2022 23:53
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The ACA was over a decade ago.
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Jun 7, 2022 23:57
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CmdrRiker posted:I specifically did not want to listen because it is Matthew McConaughey. I hate that our culture wont listen to the victims but invites a celebrity to their platform. But I am glad he is using his fame for a good purpose--to embolden people to hold officials responsible for legislation that can save lives. It was a good speech. Thanks. It also helps that he was born in Uvalde in 1969 and moved to Longview, TX in 1980. When he left, he was around the same age as the kids who were murdered.
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Jun 8, 2022 00:20
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I'm all for a celebrity using their soapbox to advocate for something as sensible as "children shouldn't be shot, and if you're not paying attention, this is far more disgusting than you realize." The human conscience demands action on this issue. The people who experienced this shouldn't feel alone, and they often do. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1534140999685091336
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Jun 8, 2022 00:26
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TipTow posted:The ACA was over a decade ago. Yeah but South Dakota run by the either "champions of the poor" or "people pretending better than democrats to be that" is actively fighting it, a thing that democrats did. Do you imagine people who need healthcare are like "well it doensn't matter that was a decade ago!"?. I mean I think they probably want medicaid?
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Jun 8, 2022 00:30
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The crypto bill introduced today is, perhaps unsurprisingly, extremely friendly to crypto https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfHilaryAllen/status/1534176472159731717 The biggest issue is assigning regulatory duties to the CFTC, which doesn’t have the manpower, expertise, or legal backing to handle it properly
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Jun 8, 2022 00:33
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haveblue posted:The crypto bill introduced today is, perhaps unsurprisingly, extremely friendly to crypto "Crypto is different from any other investment and the future of money, bro": The Bill
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Jun 8, 2022 00:37
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haveblue posted:The crypto bill introduced today is, perhaps unsurprisingly, extremely friendly to crypto The 2 main senators behind the crypto bill gave a solid interview this morning. https://twitter.com/SquawkCNBC/status/1534151448199671808?t=Kw__68ahVUvsmBF0jH-KDA&s=19 They called bitcoin a "wonderful investment idea for retirement... because bitcoin shines as a store of value." https://twitter.com/CongressChanges/status/1362785234467450881?t=mVpISKzz3-jXeqmNeGML4w&s=19
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Jun 8, 2022 00:49
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Mr Hootington posted:The 2 main senators behind the crypto bill gave a solid interview this morning. Whoever chose the graphics to accompany this probably enjoyed themselves
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Jun 8, 2022 00:53
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah but South Dakota run by the either "champions of the poor" or "people pretending better than democrats to be that" is actively fighting it, a thing that democrats did. I legitimately can't parse your first line, sorry. As for the second, my wife and I regularly work with Medicaid recipients and I can assure you that the vast majority of them have no earthly clue where it comes from, let alone its legislative origins or the party responsible for passing it. This entire conversation began about messaging, and the Democrats loving suck at it. No one here is actually arguing the GOP is the true party of the poor now, they're just better at convincing people of it.
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Jun 8, 2022 00:59
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haveblue posted:Whoever chose the graphics to accompany this probably enjoyed themselves It was a live feed of crypto prices. If they had been talking about Ukraine war funding it would have showed defense sector stocks. That is just how CNBC is.
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Jun 8, 2022 01:10
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TipTow posted:I legitimately can't parse your first line, sorry. No, they aren't. Poor people vote for Democrats more than they do Republicans. What people are doing is seeing a thing the Republicans are doing, that they wish Democrats would, and making silly arguments about how they're the party of the poor, or better at pretending to be the party of the poor, when the truth is neither. It's just a contorted way to say "dems bad", which nobody here disagrees with, because just posting "dems bad" isn't good enough. Dems are bad. Dems don't give a poo poo about the poor. However they are better at actually helping the poor, and pretending to, than the Republicans. Low bar to make it across, but they do. That doesn't make them good in any way, but they are better at it than Republicans. Republicans are the party of poor whites, but that is more about their culture war issues and racism than it is being effective at pretending to not hate poor people.
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Jun 8, 2022 01:12
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Mr Hootington posted:It was a live feed of crypto prices. If they had been talking about Ukraine war funding it would have showed defense sector stocks. That is just how CNBC is. Yeah, a live feed of the asset being described as a retirement-grade store of value swinging wildly and losing more than half its value over the past few months
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Jun 8, 2022 01:13
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Jaxyon posted:Dems are bad. Dems don't give a poo poo about the poor. However they are better at actually helping the poor, and pretending to, than the Republicans. What is the point you're trying to communicate, then? You agree that the dems suck and don't care about poor people, but it's wrong for someone to say they are also bad at lying about caring for the poor?
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Jun 8, 2022 01:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They already did. California, New York, Delaware, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Maine, and Massachusetts all have sent out or are sending out gas rebate checks for between $300 and $800. It's not as if the stimulus checks were some big life-changing thing. One-time checks that arrived in the mail with no fanfare, and you make a slightly larger debt payment than usual or buy yourself something nice, and then you're right back to your usual daily life. What's noteworthy about these GOP efforts isn't the gas cards themselves. It's that they're handing out the gas cards in person. At a gas station, no less. And even then, it's not like they're expecting people to change their vote for twenty-five bucks - they just figure people will be more likely to put up with a campaign pitch if they're getting paid to listen. It's not the payments themselves, it's how they're seamlessly integrated into the campaign's ground game. Imagine pulling into a gas station, sighing at the absurd prices on the signboard but knowing you have little choice but to fill up, and someone walks up and says they'll pay half of this fill-up for you if you listen to them tell you about how the Democrats made gas prices too drat high and her candidate wants to do something about them. While the Democrats (centrists and progressives alike) are door-knocking and cold-calling, the GOP is paying you to listen to their campaign pitch - and they're doing it at the location of the very problem they're promising to fix. It's not about the money, it's about integrating it into a ground game.
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Jun 8, 2022 02:19
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WorkerThread posted:What is the point you're trying to communicate, then? You agree that the dems suck and don't care about poor people, but it's wrong for someone to say they are also bad at lying about caring for the poor? The point I am trying to communicate is that the Republicans are not "party of the poor", a claim made by a poster in this thread, or "better at pretending it than the Democrats", also a claim made in this thread. Quotes: TipTow posted:Republicans are pretending to be the party of the poor. The Democrats aren’t even pretending. virtualboyCOLOR posted:Objectively the Rs are the party of the poor if they are doing this style of outreach and Dems are not. I'm pointing out these are silly posts made by people who want to communicate more simple point, "dems bad". You can just post that. People choose not to, I assume, because it's not a very interesting post to make. So we get silly statements like "objectively the Rs are the party of the poor" which is, coincidentally, the exact framing Republicans are going for. But coming out of the mouths of leftists.
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Jun 8, 2022 02:46
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