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Another Jan.6 enjoyer gets his 15 minutes of fame. https://twitter.com/DavidEggert00/status/1534906740290072577?s=20&t=nJqwqnyRj-DmrsbrFFaAaA https://twitter.com/GrantHermes/status/1534907467959762945?s=20&t=nJqwqnyRj-DmrsbrFFaAaA
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Jun 9, 2022 16:14
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cat botherer posted:Now that I'm back from my 18-hour probe for quoting someone who was quoting someone who was posting about posters, Kimmel had a guest last night that is somehow even worse at his job than Kimmel is at his: What specific executive order are you proposing?
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Jun 9, 2022 16:21
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BRJurgis posted:I suppose what I was getting at is people who are inclined to dislike the dems are more likely to admit that neither party is willing or able to actually help people, at least in my experience. Whereas the (typically older and wealthier) reliable Democrat voters will say to my face "well we just need more people to vote for Dems/not be foul republicans, and here is some insignificant speech/promise"/gesture that gives me hope." All the while minimizing or utterly denying the failure and unsustainability of what we are faced with. I totally agree, and that's been my experience, too. I've found conservatives more accepting of single-payer than liberals, especially if they're already getting Medicare & paying $300/month for what Obama tried to brand as "Cadillac coverage" (everything included, no deductible, any provider in the country), instead of $800/month for an ACA plan that comes with a narrow network and a $6000/year deductible--and no cap on out-of-network costs. Meanwhile, liberals have internalized that single-payer will never, ever happen (or if so, only if 30 more Democrats are elected to the U.S. Senate over the next several decades) and in the meantime, what's wrong with the ACA? It's so terrific that even Republicans didn't want to get rid of it! It's so easy to frame single-payer as non-partisan, too: Doesn't every American deserve the same kind of care that we now provide for olds & veterans? (At this point conservatives usually agree while liberals ventriloquize that conservatives don't want Black people to get it, even though majorities of conservatives favor Medicaid, the program that liberals envision as full of those people.) You & I have discussed this before but this is the natural outcome of political silos & echo chambers. It's almost as if there are underlying motives in making members of the political parties mortal enemies of each other.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:24
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BRJurgis posted:I suppose what I was getting at is people who are inclined to dislike the dems are more likely to admit that neither party is willing or able to actually help people, at least in my experience. Whereas the (typically older and wealthier) reliable Democrat voters will say to my face "well we just need more people to vote for Dems/not be foul republicans, and here is some insignificant speech/promise"/gesture that gives me hope." All the while minimizing or utterly denying the failure and unsustainability of what we are faced with. Most people get pissed at the idea of sacrificing material comforts, though. Are there people out there who make a big stink about hating both parties/all politicians? Of course. But in spite of that we’ve seen voter participation up, party elasticity down.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:35
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I think the point was that when you make an effort to help people out, especially during times in which more people need help, people don't care which jersey you're wearing, and they will respond to the effort rather than to the politics or political rhetoric. It's the opposite of "sacrificing material comforts"; it's providing them with what they need, or at least attempting to address those needs.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:41
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Willa Rogers posted:I think the point was that when you make an effort to help people out, especially during times in which more people need help, people don't care which jersey you're wearing, and they will respond to the effort rather than to the politics. This may be true for a portion of the population. Still, my experience from some more conservative-dominated areas and liberal-dominated areas shows that people will accept help and then immediately revert to their lizard brain beliefs or the socially dominant schema as soon as it is convenient. I've met all kinds of people at the food bank, and most of them don't care who is handing out the food, but they're still going to vote for one of the two parties if they vote at all most likely.
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Jun 9, 2022 16:45
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But then that makes this approach all the more useful for the politically disengaged.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:03
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Willa Rogers posted:But then that makes this approach all the more useful for the politically disengaged. I don't disagree that it is the right thing to do, but I am not confident it will be effective at delivering political results.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:06
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Again, we live in a country where food not bombs and occupy wall street were treated like terrorist orgs by both parties. We don't have a left political party who's interested in street outreach. We have leftist organizations who are and two political parties who try to kill them for doing it. There is no left political party in America. The whole argument about if it's the most efficient way to get votes is silly when both parties have decided they're better off suppressing the votes of the poor. There is no party of the poor.
Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 17:08
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The last time we had a left leaning populist in a position of national influence and authority before Bernie Sanders was the Kingfish Huey Long and you see what happened to him when he got too big for his pants when it came to challenging FDR and the New Deal.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:25
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Looks like we're going to have a lot more Jan. 6 arrests!  https://twitter.com/AccountableGOP/status/1534932666029592576?s=20&t=nJqwqnyRj-DmrsbrFFaAaA
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Jun 9, 2022 17:39
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I love it when a blue state democrat says to invest your retirement savings in bitcoin! https://twitter.com/means_tv/status/1534894872271929344
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Jun 9, 2022 17:42
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HonorableTB posted:The last time we had a left leaning populist in a position of national influence and authority before Bernie Sanders was the Kingfish Huey Long and you see what happened to him when he got too big for his pants when it came to challenging FDR and the New Deal. Shot by a relative of someone whose seat he'd just gerrymandered away? Sounds more like a warning about the dangers of going authoritarian and abusing your political power for the sake of crushing your opponents utterly.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:43
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't disagree that it is the right thing to do, but I am not confident it will be effective at delivering political results. I mean, it's worth a try imo given that nothing's working now & the dems are all out of ideas. It beats throwing another hundred million at consultancies to run lovely ads. Meanwhile, republicans are opening community centers in minority areas & feeding people while getting them to change their party registration.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:45
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Willa Rogers posted:Because, having sat through front-to-end congressional hearings on the nomination of Clarence Thomas & the crimes of Iran-Contra, among others, I'd rather have my fingernails torn off one-by-one than watch a bunch of showboating barely sentient mushbrained members of congress trip over the statements prepared by their staffers. "Axios posted:The House's Jan. 6 committee has turned to a renowned former network news executive to hone a mountain of explosive material into a captivating multimedia presentation for a prime-time hearing Thursday. BiggerBoat posted:I might start a thread if anyone cares to read one since I imagine there's a few people here who will watch and it might flood the board if we talk about in here.
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Jun 9, 2022 17:50
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Willa Rogers posted:I mean, it's worth a try imo given that nothing's working now & the dems are all out of ideas. It beats throwing another hundred million at consultancies to run lovely ads. Yeah, the Democrats would be in amazing shape if they jettisoned the political class of consultants and what is essentially daycare for liberal elite children. All that money could be going to food banks, shelters, community kitchens, loving anything. They could just give it all to Guy Fieri and let him travel state to state cooking for people for free. they could give it to a random guy on the street and get better results than they get currently it feels like. instead we get https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1534944445044490240 :puke: Heck Yes! Loam! fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 9, 2022 |
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Jun 9, 2022 17:58
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:What? How is this a progressive thing? You're not making any sense. The people who were supposedly threatened the most are responding with no apparent urgency or decisiveness. So most of the country responds in kind. This has nothing to do with policy or ideals. You're the one deciding your position on issues based on how democrats behave. That's probably a bad idea and and I agree it doesn't make much sense, but that's the position you've taken. As a leftist, I'm saying that's a bad idea.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:03
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Jaxyon posted:You're the one deciding your position on issues based on how democrats behave. If a guy is telling me his house is on fire, but takes months to call the fire department, gonna start thinking either the fire isn’t real or he was in on setting it or there’s some kind of other scam going on. Ali Alexander is not a highly-protected member of the ruling class, said and did astonishingly incriminating poo poo before during and after J6, and is still walking around free despite having organized big parts of it. It’s no biggie.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:05
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selec posted:If a guy is telling me his house is on fire, but takes months to call the fire department, gonna start thinking either the fire isn’t real or he was in on setting it or there’s some kind of other scam going on. Ali Alexander is not a highly-protected member of the ruling class, said and did astonishingly incriminating poo poo before during and after J6, and is still walking around free despite having organized big parts of it. It’s no biggie. That's why I know covid isn't dangerous. Openbiden is the correct and good policy. If it was, the world's governments would have taken it more seriously.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:09
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Jaxyon posted:That's why I know covid isn't dangerous. Openbiden is the correct and good policy. It's kind of weird to treat people like idiots for wanting to trust authority or even just making the complaints that the most powerful authority figures are poo poo at it. Humans look to the leaders of the groups they're in for direction.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:15
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Gumball Gumption posted:It's kind of weird to treat people like idiots for wanting to trust authority or even just making the complaints that the most powerful authority figures are poo poo at it. Humans look to the leaders of the groups they're in for direction. I don't know if you should trust Democrats GG. They have some bad policies. I thought you usually spent a lot of this thread criticizing them? Wierd turn.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:20
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Oracle posted:They've apparently got a TV producer orchestrating the presentation of the evidence, so tonight might be the best night to tune in. Maybe--but that sounds like the sort of thing they do with the party's nominating conventions (slickly produced & edited videos) and I don't watch those anymore either. When you're an old girl like me you want to settle in for a night of turkish dramas (talk about well-produced!) & bravotv. I used to make fun of my mom & her police/medical shows but now that I'm an old too I get it. It'll be way easier to catch the highlight reels on twitter & youtube if anything striking happens at the hearings.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:24
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Jaxyon posted:That's why I know covid isn't dangerous. Openbiden is the correct and good policy. The difference is J6 is their problem, not really my business. Covid, I look out for myself.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:25
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Jaxyon posted:That's why I know covid isn't dangerous. Openbiden is the correct and good policy. So we've established that democrats don't care about 1/6. Republicans don't care about 1/6. Many posters in this thread do not care about 1/6. What are your reasons for caring about it, then? How would you convince me?
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Jun 9, 2022 18:28
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selec posted:The difference is J6 is their problem, not really my business. Covid, I look out for myself. I dunno, fascist coup ranks pretty high on the "my business" scale for me.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:28
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I dunno, fascist coup ranks pretty high on the "my business" scale for me. My point is why should I care about it if they can’t even make the case convincingly that they care about it? Like it’s so not my problem; nothing in my life changed except some videos of people I already despise being harassed by people who were dumb enough to be coaxed into it with no plan. It doesn’t affect my life in any way, it’s just another show I’m not watching.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:30
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I dunno, fascist coup ranks pretty high on the "my business" scale for me. But, they only attempted and didn't succeed, so it doesn't count. They don't give out Nobel prizes for attempted chemistry. And you can't be put in jail for just attempted murder.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:31
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I know this will get a negative response from certain folks, and I'm not telling anybody to stop trying, it's just.... I can no longer see a political solution. Jetissoning the republican/Democrat way of looking at things, a vote of no confidence in what we've built, that seems more effective at reaching people and building our own networks. Just because somebody is lost to the dems doesn't make them your enemy (unless they're avowed racists or anti Semites or homophobes etc) because the dems are indeed bad.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:32
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selec posted:My point is why should I care about it if they can’t even make the case convincingly that they care about it? Like it’s so not my problem; nothing in my life changed except some videos of people I already despise being harassed by people who were dumb enough to be coaxed into it with no plan. Maybe don't treat the world like its Netflix?  I can't make you care about things, all I can ask is what would make you care, and is anyone capable of doing it?
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Jun 9, 2022 18:33
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I dunno, fascist coup ranks pretty high on the "my business" scale for me. Any response by Congress would fall into one of two traps of motivated reasoning. Either “not going far enough to convince me they’re taking it seriously” or “jeez why don’t they put all that effort into addressing ______?” But in the real world hearings that drag out forever is a feature not a bug of modern congressional committees.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:35
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January 6th was unequivocally A Big Deal, in like a historical sense. People broke into Congress to overthrow the government. They brought zipties. They built a gallows. It's a significant event. BUT: the vast disconnect between how the dems have spoken about it compared to what they've done about it makes it difficult to view their behavior as anything other than empty political theater. The subject of skepticism here isn't 1/6, it's the Democratic party and their upcoming hearings about it. What's the source of confusion here? What's the actual disagreement we're having?
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Jun 9, 2022 18:35
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Maybe don't treat the world like its Netflix? I mean, if we want to move away from a neutered politics of spectacle I’m all for that, but bringing in Hollywood talent to run hearings doesn’t seem like anybody else got that memo. Our last Dem president is literally getting millions from Netflix while offering little in the way of rhetorical or material contribution to any liberatory cause. It’s really a clear-cut YOU FIRST, BUDDY scenario here
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Jun 9, 2022 18:39
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Yeah, the Democrats would be in amazing shape if they jettisoned the political class of consultants and what is essentially daycare for liberal elite children. All that money could be going to food banks, shelters, community kitchens, loving anything. They could just give it all to Guy Fieri and let him travel state to state cooking for people for free. they could give it to a random guy on the street and get better results than they get currently it feels like.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:40
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well we all know the counter investigations are already planned https://twitter.com/HouseAdmnGOP/status/1534945980453363716 it is rather tiring, maybe caring about all this is just a losing game and the only way to win is to not play. I haven't gotten there yet.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:46
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Republicans are gonna be hypocrites over the 1/6 hearings but at the end of the day if hypocrisy were a detriment at all Trump would never have become president.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:47
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BRJurgis posted:I know this will get a negative response from certain folks, and I'm not telling anybody to stop trying, it's just.... I can no longer see a political solution. Jetissoning the republican/Democrat way of looking at things, a vote of no confidence in what we've built, that seems more effective at reaching people and building our own networks. Just because somebody is lost to the dems doesn't make them your enemy (unless they're avowed racists or anti Semites or homophobes etc) because the dems are indeed bad. IMO, the majority of political effort from folks like us should be put into mutual aid and dual power. The democrats are a lost cause. They are a hindrance to progress at best and actively hurt people at worst. They keep caping for republicans constantly. They are clearly ineffective. Instead of giving them money and time, we should focus more on building resilient structures that people can depend on when the poo poo hits the fan and provide alternatives. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2022 18:49
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Srice posted:Republicans are gonna be hypocrites over the 1/6 hearings but at the end of the day if hypocrisy were a detriment at all Trump would never have become president. Yeah, never underestimate the worthlessness of pointing out hypocrisy. No one cares any more, if they ever did.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:54
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:January 6th was unequivocally A Big Deal, in like a historical sense. People broke into Congress to overthrow the government. They brought zipties. They built a gallows. It's a significant event. Yeah, I don't think the argument people are making is that 1/6 didn't matter, it's that it's extremely difficult to care about the Democrats' response to it because they themselves don't really seem to care. It was an open violent coup, an attempt to derail the normal democratic proceedings of our government and kidnap/murder elected officials in the country's capitol, and the response has been turtle-paced and anemic. It's been a year and a half since 1/6 and no one more important than some boots-on-the-ground brownshirts have suffered any inconveniences or consequences for it, and the public version of these hearings aren't going to change anything about that.
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Jun 9, 2022 18:59
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Lib and let die posted:I don't understand how any person with a shred of sympathy or empathy couldn't scream "NINETEEN loving DEAD KIDS, JOE!" after that answer. Countless Americans, presumably with at least a shred of sympathy and empathy, choose not to do the same whenever they talk with a fellow American who values gun rights over the lives of children. I mean I don't understand that either but let's not pretend Kimmel is alone here.
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Jun 9, 2022 19:01
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DarkCrawler posted:Countless Americans, presumably with at least a shred of sympathy and empathy, choose not to do the same whenever they talk with a fellow American who values gun rights over the lives of children. I mean I don't understand that either but let's not pretend Kimmel is alone here. Screaming at literally anyone not in Congress is like choosing to jerk off instead of getting laid - what's the loving point?
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Jun 9, 2022 19:02
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