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Considering he’s an old school arch-conservative (fucker is Ted Cruz’s mentor for gently caress’s sake) who has been put in a situation where he has to willfully testify against a former Republican president, just anger and distaste is plenty to explain him dragging his feet and not being an engaging speaker. Also he was speaking in giant rambling embedded clauses. That’s literally the opposite behavior of someone with damage to language or speech centers of the brain. He was boring because he was talking in an overcomplicated way, not cause he can’t talk.
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Jun 17, 2022 05:20
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think he probably loses, he is too poisonous to moderates and fence party types and would light a fire and scare progressives and liberals. etc. I mean, for Christ's sake, he got us to vote for Biden, of all things...
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Jun 17, 2022 08:52
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CommieGIR posted:Apparently the slow speaking judge recently had a stroke so that explains that. He's doing the thing Mueller did, trying to say, "Trump is loving criminal" without actually saying it or providing anything remotely like a sound bite because being a Republican fucks with your head. He's Ted Cruz's and John Eastman's mentor and who if he'd been younger probably would have had a spot on SCOTUS. Pretty sure he has been nominated for it every time it's come up for the last 20 years. He is likely just barely able to make the cog dis in his head stop hurting just long enough to say this much. He's probably architected and planned so many far right assaults on the laws of the country that he's personally moved the overton window as much as anyone else in the country. I get why he was called, he's just short of having Thomas or Alito up there saying Trump is a nasty, but maybe he should have just been prerecorded and only used the bits where the questioners badgered him into succinct answers.
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Jun 17, 2022 14:38
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Murgos posted:He's doing the thing Mueller did, trying to say, "Trump is loving criminal" without actually saying it or providing anything remotely like a sound bite because being a Republican fucks with your head. He literally called Trump a "clear and present danger" to democracy. That's pretty succinct.
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Jun 17, 2022 16:23
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Soon heard on Fox: “The……..President……is…..a clear and present danger to democracy”.
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Jun 17, 2022 16:41
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https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1537640003714658306?s=20&t=mHvSDLYfex11ZqEQ_Mr7NQ
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Jun 17, 2022 17:56
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1537640003714658306?s=20&t=mHvSDLYfex11ZqEQ_Mr7NQ Clarence and Virginia Thomas have the ultimate "opposites attract" marriage, in that he's a Supreme Court Justice... and she's a loving criminal mastermind.
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Jun 17, 2022 20:50
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I am terrified to speak it aloud lest I accidentally make it impossible. But Ginni Thomas saying she WANTS to go before the Committee and "clear up misconceptions" is a thing I desire with burning intensity. She is bug-gently caress insane and I wish to witness her attempt to sound reasonable in her answers to the committees questions. I figure someone is gonna get ahold of her and talk her out of it, but it would be awesome if she ignored them. This would be such a gift from the universe I might re-consider my agnosticism.
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Jun 17, 2022 21:18
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Ginni Thomas seems like one of those people who is the walking, talking, breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:02
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Dr. Faustus posted:I am terrified to speak it aloud lest I accidentally make it impossible. But Ginni Thomas saying she WANTS to go before the Committee and "clear up misconceptions" is a thing I desire with burning intensity. She is bug-gently caress insane and I wish to witness her attempt to sound reasonable in her answers to the committees questions. Has she actually released a statement? Cause yeah, I’d pay good money to see that. Bet you a dollar she starts screaming and calls someone “dark-sided”.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:08
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Dr. Faustus posted:I am terrified to speak it aloud lest I accidentally make it impossible. But Ginni Thomas saying she WANTS to go before the Committee and "clear up misconceptions" is a thing I desire with burning intensity. She is bug-gently caress insane and I wish to witness her attempt to sound reasonable in her answers to the committees questions. They won’t put her on live tv without having spent a day vetting her behind closed doors first. Can you imagine the RWM poo poo show of her screeching about Hugo Chaves Italian ballots or whatever and the committee trying to patiently say that those allegations have long since been disproven? They would be all over how they wouldn’t let her talk and show her ‘evidence’ which would just be all made up nonsense that they can repeat without support because, “they don’t want you to hear it”. It’s exactly why Bannon or Giuliani or even Trump won’t see a live TV session for these hearings no matter how much they demand it.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:10
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Murgos posted:They won’t put her on live tv without having spent a day vetting her behind closed doors first. Couldn't they just pre-record her testimony like they did with some of those other folks? Then just play the highlights during the hearing.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:32
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Murgos posted:They won’t put her on live tv without having spent a day vetting her behind closed doors first. Which is why this is not a trial; it's a public grand jury. They're going to indict him and then god help us all.
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Jun 17, 2022 22:40
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mdemone posted:Which is why this is not a trial; it's a public grand jury. yeah pretty much
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Jun 17, 2022 23:07
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I heard a theory earlier that makes sense in a really horrific way. The militia types had weapons stashed in case Trump invoked the insurrection act. Trump’s orders for the national guard were to protect his people. Team Trump actually thought that if Pence just started tossing ballots that Democrats could probably find enough ways to challenge or delay counts so as to avoid the state delegate roll call and run out the clock leaving no declared president on the 20th. Which means Pelosi becomes president and Trump stops being president. So, all that together means there was likely something else that was supposed to happen. Imagine what a large chunk of America would have done if Pence just started tossing certified electoral ballots with the intent of declaring Trump the winner? Riots right? Riots everywhere. insurrection act.
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Jun 18, 2022 00:35
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Murgos posted:Imagine what a large chunk of America would have done if Pence just started tossing certified electoral ballots with the intent of declaring Trump the winner? Riots right? Riots everywhere. "It will be decided in the streets" is what they actually said, I think.
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Jun 18, 2022 00:43
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It's not exactly an elegant plan, is it? A tiny piece of news regarding information-sharing between the committee and the DOJ: The committee has been scheduled to hold its final hearing in September. This is the hearing where they would summarize and release their official investigation and report on legislative recommendations. Reporting today is the committee wanted to maintain exclusive possession of their work product until then. I won't hazard a guess as to why, as none is offered and I am not qualified to speculate. Today the committee, responding to the pressure from the DOJ (which advises it wants the J6 testimony to compare to the testimony their Grand Jury has, to corroborate facts and catch perjury), has announced they could start sharing their info in July. So they've moved the date up by months and, not knowing any better, seems reasonable. It certainly is an accommodation they don't have to make, but they have announced their intent.
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Jun 18, 2022 00:50
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Dr. Faustus posted:I am terrified to speak it aloud lest I accidentally make it impossible. But Ginni Thomas saying she WANTS to go before the Committee and "clear up misconceptions" is a thing I desire with burning intensity. She is bug-gently caress insane and I wish to witness her attempt to sound reasonable in her answers to the committees questions. I hope she testifies too but unfortunately as the wife of a supreme court justice I doubt it will matter.
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Jun 18, 2022 01:01
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Charliegrs posted:I hope she testifies too but unfortunately as the wife of a supreme court justice I doubt it will matter. She's not just a housewife, dude, she was a founder of Tea Party group Liberty Central Inc and this Frontliners group. She had Mark Meadows' personal cel number and was texting him. And she was possibly feeding Eastman info on how the Supreme Court was feeling about all that was going on (where would she get that info hrmm). Hilary Clinton she's not, she's never claimed to be a co-justice (in public, at least) or tried to be in the spotlight, but she is absolutely politically active in an organizing way.
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Jun 18, 2022 01:30
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Charliegrs posted:I hope she testifies too but unfortunately as the wife of a supreme court justice I doubt it will matter. It would be incredible, though.
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Jun 18, 2022 03:05
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Dr. Faustus posted:Glenn Kirschner's newest video just dropped and he agrees. His argument was compelling to the extent I now consider the likelihood Ginni Thomas actually appears before the committee to be almost certainly nil. The mere notion Clarence's wife would sit for questions from interlocutors who might immediately start asking questions about Clarence himself and the mere suggestion of that ought to be enough to cause some sort of irreconcilable scheduling conflict or whatever. Do the Republicans have any good lawyers left to give such advice though? Haven't they all jumped ship from a combination of not wanting to be professionally embarrassed and the utter lack of faith in any of them actually getting paid?
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Jun 18, 2022 03:12
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Oracle posted:Do the Republicans have any good lawyers left to give such advice though? Haven't they all jumped ship from a combination of not wanting to be professionally embarrassed and the utter lack of faith in any of them actually getting paid?
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Jun 18, 2022 03:46
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Dr. Faustus posted:Glenn Kirschner's newest video just dropped and he agrees. His argument was compelling to the extent I now consider the likelihood Ginni Thomas actually appears before the committee to be almost certainly nil. The mere notion Clarence's wife would sit for questions from interlocutors who might immediately start asking questions about Clarence himself and the mere suggestion of that ought to be enough to cause some sort of irreconcilable scheduling conflict or whatever. i doubt too she will but she genuinely seems nuts enough to think she can pull some chud sorkin moment and make all her insane poo poo sound real. Murgos posted:I heard a theory earlier that makes sense in a really horrific way. my view is that bunch of chuds were doing separate but hosed up plans to gently caress with the transfer and most of trumps plan was to have the end of billy madison happen but instead of newman and mr pink, its a bunch of insane chuds cheering him on while everyone cheers and pence sighs and lets him win. trump views everything as some hosed up 80s spectacle. but he made his big dumb vague plan that it gave room for tons of other chuds to either show up and follow along OR hatch their own hosed up mini plans like the proud boys.
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Jun 18, 2022 04:25
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 https://i.imgur.com/is5QyrB.mp4
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Jun 18, 2022 06:12
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The New York Times' Video Investigation team is something I had not heard of and cannot explain well here. Sorry. That said, they released an amazing video on Friday and I have watched it, and just after I started seeing it discussed on the news; so it will get around eventually. It takes all of the available video of the Capitol riot and collates it into a straight narrative, and it exclusively follows the Proud Boys, from when they met at 10am at the Washington Monument up until they had fully breached the buildings. They identify all the PBs they can find, so you can track which members and leaders went where, and when. It's going to be required watching, I swear. Rather than oversell it now I will wait until it seeps out onto the Internet for sharing and just stream-of-consciousness what I can recall from the presentation: The first thing is this: This definitely was a false flag operation, in one very specific sense. There were no Anti-fascists there, and this was not an FBI false flag, either. The PBs' plan started first and foremost with the rule to "blend in and rile up the Normies." To that end, they did not wear PB colors. They dressed like all the other people who were there, except of course for the entrance teams. Only the most plugged-in CHUDs could recognize a Proud Boy without the black and yellow outfits. But the method they used was actually very smart. They knew they needed a mob there to amplify their force (so did Trump, which is why he supplied them the mob from the Ellipse), and the very first skirmish with police at the West barricade started when a "normie" protester walked up to PB leader Joe Biggs and spoke to him briefly. Right after, that protester (his identity is known, he was not a PB and I don't know if he recognized Biggs or knew anything about him before that day) marched up to the police line and started a confrontation. Then the PBs joined in, and within a minute they had incited a full-scale attack on the police line. It failed initially, but during that time other leaders were scoping out other entrances. The video shows mobs of protesters standing behind the barricades, not touching them. Until the PBs showed up and started initiating brawls, removing barricades, and always, within a minute or two of getting to the area, they started making successful advances on the building. The video identifies five places where PBs enter an area, infuriate and incite the protesters, and then leadership would retreat and look for other weak points. While the West barricade was holding, Biggs retreated and went elsewhere. This is how the Capitol fell. The most interesting thing to me was that it did not appear to be a foregone conclusion that the protesters at the Capitol would have succeeded in breaching the building without the training and organization of the PBs. You'll want to actually watch the whole thing before you consider that as a possibility, I understand, but do see it when you can. In that way it is fascinating. What is also fascinating is the human talents, not just computers or AI, that spent something like a year putting this all together, identifying all of the players, and tracking them to make a coherent VIDEO narrative of the events. Other weird things I learned: The plan for the day, I think that was the "1776 Returns" document but it may not be referring to exactly that, was provided to former PB leader Enrique Tarrio - get this - by his girlfriend. Who the heck is that? This will be all over the place this weekend I think, but if not next week it should be getting around widely. Sorry about the novel, it's actually a very informative video and an impressive feat of. Something. War-making? Not even sure what to call it. https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000008392796/rile-up-the-normies-how-proud-boys-breached-the-capitol.html
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Jun 18, 2022 06:55
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Does Dr Crandall's online heart test sus out if you're right wing, and then claim "You're gonna live forever! Might as well donate as much as possible to GOP politicians!"?
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Jun 18, 2022 08:59
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Dr. Faustus posted:In that way it is fascinating. What is also fascinating is the human talents, not just computers or AI, that spent something like a year putting this all together, identifying all of the players, and tracking them to make a coherent VIDEO narrative of the events. This whole story reminds me of something- Gamergate. Using people who have infiltrated the crowd, riled it up, formed a thundercloud of resentment and anger, and then lit a spark to cause a riot. And then targeted the riot at specific places and people to get their aims archived. And now they have almost perfected the plan and got within 10 meters of success. If Trump had been smart enough to direct the lighting bolt from the thundercloud, he would be dictator for life today. Unless they are stopped for a generation, it will happen again. Soon.
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Jun 18, 2022 13:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i doubt too she will but she genuinely seems nuts enough to think she can pull some chud sorkin moment and make all her insane poo poo sound real. I don't think Trump really had a plan beyond hoping someone else would fix things for him, that's a pattern with him and how he usually dodges responsibility. By keeping things coached in vague "suggestions" he can say he never actually ordered anyone to do anything. Of course he'd also get mad and fire people if they didn't act on those suggestions immediately, or failed. Or did anything besides exactly what he wanted, the details of which he would never openly state. So a pretty normal CEO.
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Jun 18, 2022 18:53
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Smart money seems to be Trumpy thought if he could just stop the certification and have the election still not certified by the magic date of 01/07 he'd be able to turn that into enough FUD and chaff to somehow pull through.
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Jun 18, 2022 19:22
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Murgos posted:Team Trump actually thought that if Pence just started tossing ballots that Democrats could probably find enough ways to challenge or delay counts so as to avoid the state delegate roll call and run out the clock leaving no declared president on the 20th. Which means Pelosi becomes president and Trump stops being president. If no candidate holds a majority of the electoral vote (say, because a few states' slates of electors are contested and unresolved), then per the 12th Amendment it gets thrown to the House of Representatives to decide. Not a simple majority, one vote per representative, though. States vote as a bloc, one vote per state delegation. And Republicans control more states.
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Jun 18, 2022 20:43
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Dr. Faustus posted:Smart money seems to be Trumpy thought if he could just stop the certification and have the election still not certified by the magic date of 01/07 he'd be able to turn that into enough FUD and chaff to somehow pull through. A common way democracies ends is you generate a constitutional crisis by yelling about how an election was rigged and create enough uncertainty that you can get an election redo ordered. Then you work full time to rig the election while stalling it for longer and longer as you consolidate power and continue to rig things in your favor. Which is pretty clearly what the plan was here. Ironically we're still kind of getting that plan, just on a state by state level rather than conducted with the full protection of the presidency. Also the proudy boys need to be declared a terrorist group, like, yesterday. Yinlock posted:I don't think Trump really had a plan beyond hoping someone else would fix things for him, that's a pattern with him and how he usually dodges responsibility. By keeping things coached in vague "suggestions" he can say he never actually ordered anyone to do anything. Eastman and the Trump family and the proud boys very much appear to have had quite explicit plans and I highly recommend watching that NYT piece above which lays it out extremely clearly and is not paywalled. e: this one https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000008392796/rile-up-the-normies-how-proud-boys-breached-the-capitol.html Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 18, 2022 |
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Jun 18, 2022 20:58
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Also the proudy boys need to be declared a terrorist group, like, yesterday. It explicitly shows how it was the Proud Boys who actually caused the January 6 coup attempt to overwhelm the police and make it into the Capitol. Until they entered the fray the police was holding the line. As soon as the Proud Boys actively intervened, the police barricades were rapidly dismantled and overwhelmed. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jun 18, 2022 |
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Jun 18, 2022 22:07
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Fuschia tude posted:If no candidate holds a majority of the electoral vote (say, because a few states' slates of electors are contested and unresolved), then per the 12th Amendment it gets thrown to the House of Representatives to decide. Yes? I mentioned that. Eastman and company didn’t actually think it would get there according to some of the recent email releases. As I said, their analysis was that enough delay could be made that who was president would still be an open question on the 20th and it would never make it to the House of Representatives for a vote by then. Before Pence tossed more than one slate of electors you can bet that there would have been an injunction based on the analysis that he didn’t have that loving power, which even Eastman admitted SCOTUS would find 9-0 against. So, how does Trump assume power if the months long plan they put together was fatally flawed? By inciting nationwide riots and using the insurrection act to dismantle opposition.
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Jun 18, 2022 22:28
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DTurtle posted:Finally watched that video - that needs to be mandatory viewing. Holy poo poo. It didn’t really show anything but “Proud Boys were present at 1/6 and participated in the riot” which I thought everyone knew about.
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Jun 18, 2022 23:03
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:It didn’t really show anything but “Proud Boys were present at 1/6 and participated in the riot” which I thought everyone knew about. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 18, 2022 |
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Jun 18, 2022 23:06
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DTurtle posted:Then you obviously didn't watch the video. They show multiple times how the protesters didn't attack the police lines until Proud Boys showed up and either did it themselves or motivated others to do so. There were Proud Boys concentrating on dismantling barricades in order to overwhelm the police. When they couldn't advance in one area, they retreated (with several groups at the same time), looked for other weak points and then attacked again. I watched all 17 minutes of it. Regular people were doing everything the Proud Boys were doing too, they just didn’t get singled out w boxes and colorized highlights lol. Idk what you thought they were doing at the Capitol if not attacking the police .. dismantling barricades? Well the crowd knocked some of them over, sure, that’s not really evidence of some sophisticated tactics it was a well-made video but didn’t tell us anything new, at least not if you’ve been keeping up w things
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Jun 18, 2022 23:18
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:I watched all 17 minutes of it. Regular people were doing everything the Proud Boys were doing too, they just didn’t get singled out w boxes and colorized highlights lol. Idk what you thought they were doing at the Capitol if not attacking the police .. dismantling barricades? Well the crowd knocked some of them over, sure, that’s not really evidence of some sophisticated tactics As one example, they show - starting at 10:00 in the video - how Ronald Loehrke, along with a few other Proud Boys, head for the east side of the Capitol. Hundreds of protestors had stayed behind the barricades for hours. One of the team antagonizes the police, while another starts tearing down the barricades. Within minutes the police line is broken.
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Jun 18, 2022 23:31
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Yes, Eastman allowed SCOTUS would absolutely not vote with them on the violations of the Electoral Count Act, but he kept telling Pence's counsel Mr. Jacob that SCOTUS might call the issue a political question and refuse to take it up. That seems incredibly unlikely but remember Virginia Thomas was in active e-mail contact with Eastman, and Eastman used to clerk for Clarence Thomas. Maybe he thought he had some insight into the court that we did not. More likely it was a hail-mary because Trump insisted on trying the plan after Eastman had ruled it out. Eastman was Trump's attorney, Trump called the shots.
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Jun 18, 2022 23:40
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Looks like Associated Press has a video ready for Tuesday at 10am pacific https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5hgdGLdh8E
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Jun 19, 2022 02:20
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I'm so happy for that.
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