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Jun 21, 2022 20:49
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Potsticker posted:This sounds like a bologna excuse. Is she not a special person because it drives her to be better and strive to do well despite the obvious lack of benefit the other pilots have in being special people? (Like say for instance Julieta in IBO) Or is it just so that the writers can have her fail and point out "well, it's not because she's a woman it's because she's not one of the special people" which only exists in the first place because the writers This also applies to Mu, who is consistently pointed out to be a massive badass and, as far as we know, has a penis, so no, that's not true.
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Jun 21, 2022 21:11
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Mu and Cagalli are using the natural use OS. But Cagalli's strike rouge also has an AI support system.
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Jun 21, 2022 21:19
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Until the retcons came and we had like naturals usjng mobile suit funnels
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Jun 21, 2022 21:29
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Tae posted:Until the retcons came and we had like naturals usjng mobile suit funnels Mu uses those in SEED itself though (well, Gunbarrels, but same thing). Having a higher spatial awareness has nothing to do with being a Coordinator, and in fact, IIRC we see it mostly in Naturals and Kira is the only Coordinator shown to have higher spatial awareness as well (and SEED, but I guess it all comes in the Ultimate Coordinator package).
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Jun 21, 2022 21:46
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Potsticker posted:This sounds like a bologna excuse. Is she not a special person because it drives her to be better and strive to do well despite the obvious lack of benefit the other pilots have in being special people? (Like say for instance Julieta in IBO) Or is it just so that the writers can have her fail and point out "well, it's not because she's a woman it's because she's not one of the special people" which only exists in the first place because the writers The second one more, but SEED has some problems with the special and not special divides in general. Having genetically engineered superior humans is a pretty thorny issue to begin with, and the show just embracing their superiority while almost all the Naturals are shown to be incompetent, evil, or both makes it much worse.
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Jun 21, 2022 21:47
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it made sense for cagalli to not be a particularly able pilot at the tail end of the show since she didn't really pilot anything before. but that whole sequence of events is what the writers made up. she didn't have to be useless.
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Jun 21, 2022 21:57
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Denim Avenger posted:I admit it's been a year since I rewatched OG Gundam, but I don't remember the word Newtype coming up before Lalah showed up. Newtypes aren't mentioned in the TV show until they return to space, but Amuro has a newtype flash while fighting the Black Tri-Stars on Earth. It goes uncommented at the time, but once you get some context, you see some sprinkling of the foundation for Newtypes throughout the show and it's very obvious that Amuro awoke on Earth rather than in space. Aside from Matilda telling Amuro that she thinks he might be an ESPer in her first appearance around about episode 8 or 9 and the Newtype flash at Odessa, there's also the scene of Amuro's medical at Jaburo. His medical takes longer than anyone elses, and he mentions they were testing his brainwaves which surprised Hayato, Kai etc, since they didn't have any such tests. The Federation were testing him as a Newtype at Jaburo too, more than likely. The movie trilogy also introduces the concept of Newtypes way earlier, with Matilda saying Amuro might be one rather than a Newtype in the same scene as the TV show, Revil musing about how the White Base crew might be Newtypes at the start of the second film, Bright asking Mirai if she thinks Amuro is a Newtype when they're talking about pulling him off the Gundam just before Amuro runs away etc. That aside, there are multiple explanations for what Newtypes are or what causes them in 0079, Zeta, ZZ and Char's Counterattack. Char in 0079 muses to Lalah that Newtypes might just be a mutation caused by war for instance, and tells Amuro and A Bao A Qu that he should be grateful to Lalah, since she caused his awakening as a Newtype. We as an audience know he's wrong, but it's a reasonable conclusion for the character regardless. He's changed his mind about them to have a more optimistic view, or to at least espouse one to others, during Zeta, but that doesn't mean he's right then either. Blaze Dragon posted:This also applies to Mu, who is consistently pointed out to be a massive badass and, as far as we know, has a penis, so no, that's not true. Does Mu actually achieve anything as a mobile suit pilot using the Strike? I remember him hopping the Strike around when he first inherits it at Orb, but I don't think he kills any named enemies or anything using it? The one major fight he has that I recall is against Rau, who kicks his rear end with almost contemptuous ease, and then he limps the unit back to block the Dominion's shot. At least he managed to consistently hold off Gundams using the Moebius Zero, which is a vastly inferior unit. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 22:38
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Potsticker posted:This sounds like a bologna excuse. Is she not a special person because it drives her to be better and strive to do well despite the obvious lack of benefit the other pilots have in being special people? (Like say for instance Julieta in IBO) Or is it just so that the writers can have her fail and point out "well, it's not because she's a woman it's because she's not one of the special people" which only exists in the first place because the writers The fact that Naturals can't pilot MS is a huge thing in SEED. Kira rewrites the OS in the Strike so that it automatically compensates for stuff like uneven terrain, and the Alliance uses that as the basis for an OS that lets Naturals pilot MS. It's a major turning point in the conflict, it lets the Alliance tip the balance with their greater resources because they can finally produce robots that their pilots can actually operate.
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Jun 21, 2022 23:08
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tsob posted:Does Mu actually achieve anything as a mobile suit pilot using the Strike? I remember him hopping the Strike around when he first inherits it at Orb, but I don't think he kills any named enemies or anything using it? The one major fight he has that I recall is against Rau, who kicks his rear end with almost contemptuous ease, and then he limps the unit back to block the Dominion's shot. At least he managed to consistently hold off Gundams using the Moebius Zero, which is a vastly inferior unit. man I haven't seen SEED since it first came out but I still remember Mu in the Strike making the impossible possible. That's the best moment in the whole show.
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Jun 21, 2022 23:10
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i will always appreciate Mu showing up in the Strike to fully kill random guys after Kira does a stupid rainbow pacifism laser volley
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Jun 21, 2022 23:42
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Blaze Dragon posted:Mu uses those in SEED itself though (well, Gunbarrels, but same thing). Having a higher spatial awareness has nothing to do with being a Coordinator, and in fact, IIRC we see it mostly in Naturals and Kira is the only Coordinator shown to have higher spatial awareness as well (and SEED, but I guess it all comes in the Ultimate Coordinator package). I meant naturals piloting ms before the kira program went public.
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Jun 21, 2022 23:43
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Anyone in any Gundam series who can piliit a MS after merely glancing at the instruction manual is a confirmed Newtype
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Jun 22, 2022 00:53
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Does that even apply to anyone beyond Amuro? Who moved the Gundam pretty awkwardly when all he had was the instruction manual to go off, and confirms in dialogue that he spent several days worth of the following week or two in simulators to try to learn some skill and survive. Kamille was a mini-MS champion who designed mobile suits as a hobby and had access to classified info on the MK II, Judau worked with mini-MS for a living, Uso had crazy survivalist parents who trained him on MS simulators as a kid just in case, Banagher was trained as a kid and attending an AE school as well as able to operate mini-MS, Hathaway leases a mini-MS from a junker to learn to pilot so he can rescue Quess etc. Even Seabook, who's probably the closest, seemed to have some familiarity with them when he drives the Guntank and is helped when operating the F91 by the fact it has a fancy new computer system that reads the pilot's intent to some degree.
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Jun 22, 2022 01:01
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Does it count as being a newtype if you ARE Gundam?
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Jun 22, 2022 01:02
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Naw, that's too innovative kind of thinking
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Jun 22, 2022 01:06
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Depends; is Rita a bird or a Gundam?
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Jun 22, 2022 01:06
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tsob posted:Depends; is Rita a bird or a Gundam? Australian. That's even worse. (Also, Ein is a Gundam but not a Newtype)
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Jun 22, 2022 01:10
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So you're saying she reincarnates as the Emu Gundam for the 14th Gundam Fight?
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Jun 22, 2022 01:18
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Cagalli is introduced as a competent character but practically every time she actually does anything it's ineffective or entirely a failure , when she gets her own Gundam at the end of the show it goes out of the way to say "make sure the assist AI is on because the pilot is a newbie", and even her SEED moment doesn't lead to her actually achieving anything in the fight before the boys show up to win it. As someone who watched SEED recently and had seen people complaining for years about Destiny sidelining Cagalli, the actual show shocked me with the idea she could be treated worse than she already was. She suffers from something SEED does a lot, where it presents the idea of a character trait or relationship and then doesn't follow through with it on screen, you're just expected to perceive the character through a lens that the show doesn't try to justify. Cagalli is instrumental in helping Athrun get over his doubts after his big fight with Kira, and she's the person who helps him break into the superlaser at the end and actually save the world. Her being a forgettable pilot is largely tangential to the fact that she's one of the two people who actually stop the apocalypse while Kira is slap fighting with Rau.
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Jun 22, 2022 01:38
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the guys in the laser were already on track for a mutiny before they arrive so it doesn't seem like they really tipped the scales
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Jun 22, 2022 01:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCcZSvGr3Xs This isn't MacDaniels at all.  Could he... Have betrayed them?
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Jun 22, 2022 02:31
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Expo70 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCcZSvGr3Xs I'm sorry. I know there's a joke that's expected here, but it's too obvious this time, even for me.
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Jun 22, 2022 02:52
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Is it? 'Cause I don't actually know what it is. You darn kids, and your new fangled memes; I guess.
tsob fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Jun 22, 2022 |
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Jun 22, 2022 02:58
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dogsicle posted:the guys in the laser were already on track for a mutiny before they arrive so it doesn't seem like they really tipped the scales The laser got fuckin' fired. If Athrun and Cagalli hadn't gone it would have nuked the Earth because Athrun blows up his suit and Cagalli saves Athrun's rear end. They are pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the Earth not being nuked because lord knows Kira wasn't helping.
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Jun 22, 2022 03:02
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The urge to explain the joke is overwhelming but I will resist. wac/mcdonalds “I’ve never betrayed anyone”
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Jun 22, 2022 03:29
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Kanos posted:Cagalli is instrumental in helping Athrun get over his doubts after his big fight with Kira, and she's the person who helps him break into the superlaser at the end and actually save the world. Her being a forgettable pilot is largely tangential to the fact that she's one of the two people who actually stop the apocalypse while Kira is slap fighting with Rau. I think "what did they notably do as a pilot" is largely an arbitrary and unhelpful measure to try and use with Seed especially because the Cosmic Era shows were unapologetic in being made with a more super robot show style mentality - outside a few exceptions there's a pretty explicit and inflexible hierarchy of power. "Only a Gundam can defeat a Gundam" and all that, except as more generations of Gundams are created and older ones get handed down, they too get locked into their acceptable 'tier' of engagement. Mu starts out exceptional among Natural pilots but even when he's given a Gundam he's strictly relegated to fighting grunts or opponents of a certain level. Cagalli if I remember right started out with no practical piloting experience at all but was a simulator prodigy so got sent into combat and was entirely capable against the nameless masses. There's never any indication that she's sub par or inferior as a pilot other than her swiftly being dispatched whenever she crosses the path of an opponent who is up in the "superhuman" level of things, which happens to Mu as well.
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Jun 22, 2022 03:48
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ImpAtom posted:The laser got fuckin' fired. If Athrun and Cagalli hadn't gone it would have nuked the Earth because Athrun blows up his suit and Cagalli saves Athrun's rear end. They are pretty much singlehandedly responsible for the Earth not being nuked because lord knows Kira wasn't helping. i mean if we entertain hypotheticals, i don't see why the room full of people who didn't support Zala's order to begin with couldn't do something about the laser firing without needing Athrun. not to mention it struck me as strange that self-destructing the base could still cause the laser to fire at all. that's mainly why Athrun feels superfluous to me there, aside from them obviously using it to cap off a few things for his character.
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Jun 22, 2022 03:50
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tsob posted:Is it? 'Cause I don't actually know what it is. You darm kids, and your new fangled memes; I guess. 
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Jun 22, 2022 06:06
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dogsicle posted:i mean if we entertain hypotheticals, i don't see why the room full of people who didn't support Zala's order to begin with couldn't do something about the laser firing without needing Athrun. not to mention it struck me as strange that self-destructing the base could still cause the laser to fire at all. that's mainly why Athrun feels superfluous to me there, aside from them obviously using it to cap off a few things for his character. Because presumably if they could they would have done it? Your hypothetical is "Well what if a thing there is no evidence for happened just so I can say a character is useless."
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Jun 22, 2022 06:29
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ImpAtom posted:Because presumably if they could they would have done it? Your hypothetical is "Well what if a thing there is no evidence for happened just so I can say a character is useless." And what prevents them from acting, except that SEED has someone else there when it happens? We can't know either way, but the person who kills Patrick was defying him even without Athrun involved. We don't see if he would go all the way without Athrun showing up because Athrun did show up, but the possibility was already on the table. Going back to the Super Robot comparison, SEED seems to have a worst of both worlds blend going on. In a standard real, you can hypothetically take out the ace machine super prototype in a grunt. It's just very unlikely without absurd skill. Meanwhile, Super Robot shows tend to roll with hard work and guts. The protagonist might need a better mech, but mostly that was a manifestation of sheer gumption. SEED has the pilot tiers where no-one but Kira and Athrun can be important, but it also has the mechs determine things, with Kira's round in the Strike again getting it wrecked by mooks (which will, I'm sure, get people coming to 'explain' how, really, that shows how good a pilot Kira is.). SEED and SEED Destiny are just bad shows.
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Jun 22, 2022 07:37
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War and Pieces posted:Anyone in any Gundam series who can piliit a MS after merely glancing at the instruction manual is a confirmed Newtype All G Gundam pilots are Newtypes confirmed wdarkk posted:That's actually a good question, I sort of want to say it depends on if anybody could train to become a kung fu wizard, but in theory you could have ended up with a gigantic newtype population (and maybe did, depending on what happened to those colony cylinders that migrated). Master Asia was the OG kung fu wizard and then showed Domon his moves, so open palm slap meme etc etc
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Jun 22, 2022 08:07
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It's been a long, long time since I watched G Gundam but I remember they all wore weird suits to pilot, right? Like, it hurt a lot, and Rain/normal humans couldn't do it, but all you had to theoretically do was put on the suit.
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Jun 22, 2022 08:15
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NikkolasKing posted:It's been a long, long time since I watched G Gundam but I remember they all wore weird suits to pilot, right? The suits were a control interface to enhance piloting, which included sensory feedback. Getting it on was a bit rough, and if your Gundam got hit, you'd feel it, but anyone in good shape (including Rain) could hypothetically pilot with one. Meanwhile, the only person we see keeping up without a suit was Master Asia.
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Jun 22, 2022 08:27
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NikkolasKing posted:It's been a long, long time since I watched G Gundam but I remember they all wore weird suits to pilot, right? What’s weird to me now that I think about it is IBO had the whole spinal jack setup to let people control their suits directly in a less Kung Fu, more body horror way, but didn’t. With one exception people still just sit in the cockpit pulling levers and pushing joysticks even if they’re maxed out. You’d think it would be almost like the matrix where your body just sits still while your brain becomes one with the robot.
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Jun 22, 2022 08:27
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galagazombie posted:What’s weird to me now that I think about it is IBO had the whole spinal jack setup to let people control their suits directly in a less Kung Fu, more body horror way, but didn’t. With one exception people still just sit in the cockpit pulling levers and pushing joysticks even if they’re maxed out. You’d think it would be almost like the matrix where your body just sits still while your brain becomes one with the robot. It's probably a combination of the early designers wanting to keep the neural load as manageable as possible and the fact that most of the MS we see with AV cables are hackjobs, basically regular MS with additional features rather than being built for the system from the ground up.
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Jun 22, 2022 11:07
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ImpAtom posted:Because presumably if they could they would have done it? Your hypothetical is "Well what if a thing there is no evidence for happened just so I can say a character is useless." what more evidence do you need than the room was full of guys we see disobeying his order to fire? he has to shoot a dissenter and hit the button himself before getting killed, because nobody in the room wants to shoot Earth at that point. then Athrun and Cagalli entering triggers everyone to leave, because enemy combatants, with the selfdestruct coming up later. there's also the later scene where Yzak's mom is in a room of guys gasping about the shot aimed at Earth so in general, plenty of ZAFT show opposition that could conceivably have turned to acting to stop it. the other angle to why Athrun feels unnecessary here is they let the background guys deal with Zala literal seconds before Athrun walks in. so no dad confrontation or anything like that. dogsicle fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Jun 22, 2022 |
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Jun 22, 2022 13:07
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https://twitter.com/DifferentFight/status/1539459553515180032?s=20&t=MCEXF5m8Lawu2TkzmDMimw
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Jun 22, 2022 14:06
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Gripweed posted:https://twitter.com/DifferentFight/status/1539459553515180032?s=20&t=MCEXF5m8Lawu2TkzmDMimw I understand the boyfriend's pain in this scenario exactly. I recall something similar after college for a while and the boy I really liked was just "its fine honey, go back to your Japanese robots" -- and I tolerated that for *YEARS* because we both really liked Transformers -- him being a little older, and me having had my cousin's recordings and having inherited his toys when he moved out of his mom's place. I still to this day, regularly run into this experience with things I like. It used to embarrass me and I'd get all self-conscious, then I was sent this.  If you love something, never be afraid to be the Char Burger Boyfriend. If you know a Char Burger Boyfriend or a Char Burger Pal, reassure him so you don't end up in the Aerith scenario/literally every trans discord server scenario.
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Jun 22, 2022 14:22
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dogsicle posted:what more evidence do you need than the room was full of guys we see disobeying his order to fire? he has to shoot a dissenter and hit the button himself before getting killed, because nobody in the room wants to shoot Earth at that point. then Athrun and Cagalli entering triggers everyone to leave, because enemy combatants, with the selfdestruct coming up later. there's also the later scene where Yzak's mom is in a room of guys gasping about the shot aimed at Earth so in general, plenty of ZAFT show opposition that could conceivably have turned to acting to stop it. They literally say it can't be stopped.
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Jun 22, 2022 14:36
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