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PT6A posted:Is she one of the people from the Invention of Lying? Like, did she actually not know that people could just lie? She just assumes her voters are dumb enough to believe her. Given they have elected her multiple times, they probably are.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:23
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
LIES. We all know where they are going next with this.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:25
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If I saw this post outside this board I would assume it was a Russian bot or a Republican troll gleefully trying to stir up trouble. On this board, it is very likely genuinely posted in good faith. Our two party system did not appear by accident. The way our elections and government is set up, your path leads to unilateral disarmament by the left and the complete and utter destruction of every political ideal you believe in with absolutely no hope whatsoever of any victory for as long as you live. Nothing can work here other than 2 parties, when the conservatives are united and will always vote under one banner. Things might get interesting in an alternate world where the GOP somehow shattered into several smaller parties, but they haven't and won't. So, does that mean we have to acquiesce to the current Dem leadership and beg them to be better? No, that is not what the far-right extremists did. They did not politely ask for their views to be heard, they converted the base, tirelessly worked to make their ideas mainstream within the party, purged the GOP leadership of all opposition, and took over. A new Jesus party would have been a stupid idea doomed to failure, same as the greens or whatever new socialist utopian party we might dream up.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:25
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Kanos posted:I can actually 100% believe that Collins and also a ton of Democrats were truthfully blindsided by this happening, because I truly believe that a lot of them were morons who utterly convinced that it was all brinksmanship and surely no one would ever actually cross that line! i actually do too. shits not real until its REAL and alot of people are just waking up to "oh gently caress roe is dead" because most folks are weird political nerds/etc like we all are.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:26
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Flying-PCP posted:The country is simply too big to have a consistent 'shared ethos' throughout. In conservatives' case, wanting to hurt 'the other' isn't an ethos, it's a base instinct, reinforced by propaganda. Then split. The country, long united, must divide in this instance. If you cannot have anything in common with people then part from them.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:27
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Rigel posted:If I saw this post outside this board I would assume it was a Russian bot or a Republican troll gleefully trying to stir up trouble. On this board, it is very likely genuinely posted in good faith. Our system didn't appear by accident but it was built by white land owners who believed in rule only by white land owners even though they were a minority so I think the way things currently work where a white minority controls everything is how the system is designed to work.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:28
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Kanos posted:I can actually 100% believe that Collins and also a ton of Democrats were truthfully blindsided by this happening, because I truly believe that a lot of them were morons who utterly convinced that it was all brinksmanship and surely no one would ever actually cross that line! I don't know how they were blind sided when Trump promised to put Justices on the court that would overturn Roe. I think that was the only policy he actually was genuine about sticking to.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:29
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Garland's DOJ actually moving quickly on something. Says that states can't ban the abortion pill and can't interfere with people receiving abortifacients by mail that are legal at the federal level and cleared by the FDA. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1540399379827359746 https://twitter.com/jrovner/status/1540366395313201157
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Jun 24, 2022 19:29
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Josef bugman posted:Then split. The country, long united, must divide in this instance. If you cannot have anything in common with people then part from them. This is beyond useless right now, dude
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Jun 24, 2022 19:30
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Josef bugman posted:Also to people who are saddened by this. I would advise looking for solutions outside of electoralism in the near future. This is simply from the perspective of one idiot on the internet, but investing in unions and mutual support networks will be vital, at least in my opinion. Faith in government institutions and major political parties in the US at at an all-time low for a reason. It's been a long time coming from a combination of propaganda, money in politics/oligarchal control/lobbying and conservatives cleverly using their power to push things toward getting what they want politically and also increasing their power despite being the minority. These things on top of material conditions continuously deteriorating while those suffering are being told it's their own fault and/or to vote for the people and parties who are actively, if less, harming them and are also contributing to the problems. The problems the vast majority of individuals, groups and also the nation have been and continue to accelerate rapidly. What is being done to mitigate these problems is not just not enough to deal with them, it's not significantly slowing the acceleration. Agree with the statement.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:30
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Josef bugman posted:Then split. The country, long united, must divide in this instance. If you cannot have anything in common with people then part from them. There’s really nothing stopping that from happening. While politicians play Calvinball in DC, the actual feet on the ground are only going to pick more and more fights. There is going to be a lot of unrest in this country.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:30
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i actually do too. shits not real until its REAL and alot of people are just waking up to "oh gently caress roe is dead" because most folks are weird political nerds/etc like we all are. Plus I think a lot of big brain moderates assumed conservatives just wanted abortion as a carrot on a stick for their voters because the reality of pulling the trigger wouldn't help them electorally past maybe one electoral cycle. About the people saying to abandon the Democrats...aside from armed insurrection or extralegal action, what would a new party look like? When this tends to happen the country cedes all legislation to the other side for a decade or so and the new party...is often chock full of people from the old party. I'm not judging, I'm just genuinely curious what you all envisioned. Blindeye fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 19:31
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Josef bugman posted:Then split. The country, long united, must divide in this instance. If you cannot have anything in common with people then part from them. If there were any chance that this could happen peacefully it might be worth discussing (in another thread). That won't happen though.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:31
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midwest ink posted:I don't know how they were blind sided when Trump promised to put Justices on the court that would overturn Roe. I think that was the only policy he actually was genuine about sticking to. Trump also said he wouldn't ban abortion during both the 2016 and 2020 debates when Biden said "Roe is on the ballot" and Clinton said that Trump could appoint the 5th vote to overturn Roe. He also said that he had no idea what his court nominees' views on abortion were and wouldn't make it a litmus test before coming out the next day and saying he will only appoint strong pro-life judges.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:32
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Herstory Begins Now posted:This is beyond useless right now, dude We have to realize that this can happen and will if nothing is done about it. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and claim that everyone’s going to get along forever. People are angry, upset, and looking for someone to blame. Flying-PCP posted:If there were any chance that this could happen peacefully it might be worth discussing (in another thread). That won't happen though. We are living, right now, in that-won’t-happen.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:33
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Pollyanna posted:We have to realize that this can happen and will if nothing is done about it. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and claim that everyone’s going to get along forever. People are angry, upset, and looking for someone to blame. I'm saying that a brit coming in here and saying 'well why don't you guys just split your country up' is loving stupid and beyond useless.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:34
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Pollyanna posted:
I'm saying it won't happen peacefully.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:34
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Rigel posted:Our two party system did not appear by accident. The way our elections and government is set up, your path leads to unilateral disarmament by the left and the complete and utter destruction of every political ideal you believe in with absolutely no hope whatsoever of any victory for as long as you live. Nothing can work here other than 2 parties, when the conservatives are united and will always vote under one banner. Things might get interesting in an alternate world where the GOP somehow shattered into several smaller parties, but they haven't and won't. I think the point is that "the way our elections and government are set up" is the problem. Democratic majorities and supermajorities have largely not succeeded at implementing lasting progressive change in the post-LBJ era, and there is unlikely to be any degree of Democratic control over the federal government in the near-to-medium-term future anyway. If we want our political ideals and values to be reflected in how this country is governed, the system, as it stands, cannot be allowed to continue.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:34
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm saying that a brit coming in here and saying 'well why don't you guys just split your country up' is loving stupid and beyond useless. It’s not going to accomplish anything but we can’t pretend it can’t happen, is all I’m saying.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:34
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Also if we split we'll get to see a state with 750k people possessing enough nuclear firepower to end the world. One of 3 or 4 red states which would have such capabilities.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:36
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Pollyanna posted:It’s not going to accomplish anything but we can’t pretend it can’t happen, is all I’m saying. considering that the civil war happened, I don't think anyone anywhere is in doubt that it is a possibility
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Jun 24, 2022 19:36
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Rigel posted:So, does that mean we have to acquiesce to the current Dem leadership and beg them to be better? No, that is not what the far-right extremists did. They did not politely ask for their views to be heard, they converted the base, tirelessly worked to make their ideas mainstream within the party, purged the GOP leadership of all opposition, and took over. A new Jesus party would have been a stupid idea doomed to failure, same as the greens or whatever new socialist utopian party we might dream up. The reason why the outright fascists were able to "take over" the Republican party is because their interests were never at odds with each other. Republican leadership was 100% OK with fascists being in charge because they were fascists themselves. In fact, it was even advantageous to them because it allowed them play the "reasonable, polite Republican" role and get idiot centrists to support them. The interests of the Democratic leadership and the interests of the people who's only choice is to vote for them are completely at odds.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:37
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In a shocking twist that nobody saw coming, moderate Governor who promised he was nothing like Trump and wanted to leave abortion alone has already announced he will move to ban abortion after 15 weeks in Virginia. https://twitter.com/ktumulty/status/1540388649375866882
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Jun 24, 2022 19:37
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He also said that he had no idea what his court nominees' views on abortion were and wouldn't make it a litmus test before coming out the next day and saying he will only appoint strong pro-life judges. This reversal appears to have been one of those instances where the last thing someone said to him stuck, except in this case it was a longtime pro-life activist who had wormed into the campaign quote:Dannenfelser attended a meeting where, after being introduced by Jerry Falwell Jr. and Franklin Graham and flanked by Mike Huckabee and Ben Carson, Trump — on his third wife and third sexual-assault allegation — professed his Christian faith. Dannenfelser claimed to be “impressed.” The campaign asked her to head up its pro-life coalition, essentially asking to use her extensive election infrastructure. https://www.thecut.com/article/marjorie-dannenfelser-abortion-roe-v-wade.html
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Jun 24, 2022 19:39
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Epic High Five posted:It's going to be tricky going to convince people to bust their rear end for months on end to build something that only gets immediately destroyed by Dem leadership as soon as they can for a third time in 15 years because they cannot be dissuaded from viewing such things as an existential threat. I'm all in favor of it but it shouldn't ever rely on input from either party nor should it ever give either any degree of power or influence over itself. Also things like recognition that the wider media will never be on its side and agitating against trust in it as a means to prevent it being used a wedge among the coalition. I'm not sure what you're talking about. 15 years dates it back to 2007, so are you talking about the Obama campaign machine? If so, then you have profoundly misunderstood what I'm talking about. I'm not referring to a temporary organization to rally people behind a single national candidate who completely controls that organization. I'm talking about a movement to shift people's politics, a movement to convince people that progressivism isn't just pie-in-the-sky bullshit from idealistic fools who don't understand the first thing about politics.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:40
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Fister Roboto posted:The reason why the outright fascists were able to "take over" the Republican party is because their interests were never at odds with each other. Republican leadership was 100% OK with fascists being in charge because they were fascists themselves. In fact, it was even advantageous to them because it allowed them play the "reasonable, polite Republican" role and get idiot centrists to support them. The whole idea that fascists "took over" is also just wrong. They've always been in charge. None of this is abnormal for America. What was abnormal was the small period where there was actually a lot of freedom in America, it just happens to be that's when most of us were born and raised so we think it's always been like this. We were lucky to live in the short speed bump where fascists were losing power but now it's rolling back again.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:40
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So when the Good States split the 45% of us who aren't MAGA but live in Bad States can suck it right? Or which good state is taking the entire black south, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, etc etc etc in as refugees? poo poo is dumb as gently caress. States are 55/45 one way or the other, and even in a war it's going to look like Syria, not a grand battle between two rump states with defined borders.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:41
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I'm saying that a brit coming in here and saying 'well why don't you guys just split your country up' is loving stupid and beyond useless. Well I'm an American and I gotta say it's not the worst idea. Either way, there needs to be mass mobilization at the level of another civil rights movement to steer the ship of the nation back on course because it is plunging desperately off a cliff. Elections alone will not fix this.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:42
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bird food bathtub posted:Oh man gonna get so god drat many fund raising texts out of this. Actual legislation? Nah go gently caress yourself you peons. Jesus Christ they're already coming in as a deluge 
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Jun 24, 2022 19:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:This is beyond useless right now, dude I mean, I'll take your word for it. But if you are not receiving representation from the super state that you are a part of and can see no way of changing it's internal structures to better suit yourself and to keep people you love safe, then perhaps it is inevitable. Pollyanna posted:There’s really nothing stopping that from happening. While politicians play Calvinball in DC, the actual feet on the ground are only going to pick more and more fights. There is going to be a lot of unrest in this country. That is the issue. It's going to have to start somewhere and change is going to have to start somewhere. If it cannot come from within the structure of power as it exists, then the structures must change or break. Cranappleberry posted:Agree with the statement. Thanks. I do not wish to be a doom merchant. Merely to try and help by saying things that help as best I can. Flying-PCP posted:If there were any chance that this could happen peacefully it might be worth discussing (in another thread). That won't happen though. I mean thats a fair point, this is a bit outside of the current thread. However I still think that it is very much a potential result of what is happening.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:42
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America Inc. posted:Well I'm an American and I gotta say it's not the worst idea. Either way, there needs to be mass mobilization at the level of another civil rights movement to steer the ship of the nation back on course because it is plunging desperately off a cliff. Elections will not fix this. It starts at the ground level. Be loud, be angry, and take no poo poo.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:43
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The Democrats are not a vehicle for positive change, they're an obstacle just like the Republicans. The veneer of decorum and promised incremental change has gotten so thin that it's translucent. I'm very proud of my decision not to vote for Joe Biden in 2020. https://twitter.com/Catsinspace1991/status/1540368127929851905?t=LagRvTtsiD3Z_I3Ml6Eoqg&s=19
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Jun 24, 2022 19:44
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HonorableTB posted:Jesus Christ they're already coming in as a deluge Is there anything about Roe in the "Spicy Lingerie Warehouse" newsletter?
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Jun 24, 2022 19:44
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Spicy lingerie and court expansion is a party platform that can unite the left, I think.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Is there anything about Roe in the "Spicy Lingerie Warehouse" newsletter? "If you'd like to increase the chance of your life being upended with no recourse thanks to a bunch of fascist Christian autocrats, we have just the thing!"
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Jun 24, 2022 19:47
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Pollyanna posted:We have to realize that this can happen and will if nothing is done about it. You can’t just bury your head in the sand and claim that everyone’s going to get along forever. People are angry, upset, and looking for someone to blame. https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1540404247103037440?s=20&t=yXLVmHE_PFw1f_nwdf_Nkw Relegating the majority of the US to Hong Kong-esque "special administrative regions" does not result in a stable society.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:47
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In other unsurprising news, Log Cabin Republicans continue to be the densest motherfuckers on the planet: https://twitter.com/LogCabinGOP/status/1540359791511359488 Rebel Blob posted:This stupid, ill-timed performance is about passing the gun control bill in the house, the pictures are of victims in recent mass shootings.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:50
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:So when the Good States split the 45% of us who aren't MAGA but live in Bad States can suck it right? Or which good state is taking the entire black south, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, etc etc etc in as refugees? I mean I'd hope that the splits that will inevitably occur will not, in fact, damage a lot of the none voting but still good populace. I think it's still likely to happen mark you, and I think that the disintegration of the Union is probably going to happen. I don't think it'll be solely along currently existing state lines. I think it will be messier, larger, and will be terrible. I don't think it will be a good thing, I should have made that clear, but I do think it is a very likely thing. I'd love to be wrong and that there is a solution to the current situation that doesn't require mass upheaval and problems. But I am doubtful that such will occur. But I am just one voice on the internet. I am doubtful about a lot of things that I thought, but I think it needs to be made very obvious that simply going "oh dear" and moving on inside of systems that hurt people cannot be the only way forward.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:51
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Lib and let die posted:This is great - in theory - but here's the problem: in order to build a progressive base we need to establish what that base should be centered around. To shift it away from Roe for a moment, we've seen arguments break out in this thread in recent days regarding how the Police should be handled and the only thing that they've revealed is that there is no cohesive thought among anyone that might fall under a label of "progressive" can point to as a binding thread. Some that could claim the progressive label want to abolish the police entirely, others want to diversify the police, and yet others want to reallocate funds away from militarization and into things like "desclation" training and very vehemently cling to those beliefs. How are those reconciled? How are they brought together? To a police abolitionist, how is a "big tent" with police reformists any different than the current democrat party embracing and protecting anti-choice members? You prioritize. You focus on the things that can get you to most votes. There are arguments? Then you focus on the common poo poo. It's life and death, basic human rights, basic democracy, freedom to vote, etc. If you're dealing with police reform as the primary thing you've already sadly failed because it's not black and white. Focus on black and white.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:52
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MadJackal posted:https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1540404247103037440?s=20&t=yXLVmHE_PFw1f_nwdf_Nkw I think people are completely justified in being angry at the Biden admin being a Buchanan-level catastrophe. Everyone that helped put him in power and give him Congress understood at least a little bit that this was the last real chance to keep the country from completely imploding and they have totally squandered all of their critical time and resources.
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