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Splicer posted:I'm asking in the general case of an RPG where you play as specific purpose robots trying to adapt to situations beyond the scope of their original programming. One of the Promethean books has a Promethean who used to be a drone but upon gaining the spark of life they went and built themselves a new body and became a powerful information broker. Basically decided it wasn't worth trying to be human and that it was better just teaching itself how best to blackmail everyone it can.
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Jun 19, 2022 06:01
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AmiYumi posted:Reminds me of playing through one of the published scenarios for L5R, whose entire ethical quandary was built upon “remember, your characters absolutely loving despise [ethnic slur for Untouchables] and would sooner murder one that look at it” that doesn't even make sense in the context of the society though! john wick!!!!!!!
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Jun 19, 2022 14:17
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Question. Did Josh Timbrook work on any TTRPG after his work illustrating the WOD books? Been reading my old oWoD books and man I really like his artstyle.
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Jun 19, 2022 15:42
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AmiYumi posted:Reminds me of playing through one of the published scenarios for L5R, whose entire ethical quandary was built upon “remember, your characters absolutely loving despise [ethnic slur for Untouchables] and would sooner murder one that look at it” Void in the Heavens was written by Rick Dakan, and John Wick was already out as line dev at that point (Ree Soesbee was the line dev at that time). It's easy to forget how relatively short-lived his involvement was.
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Jun 19, 2022 17:51
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Void in the Heavens was written by Rick Dakan, and John Wick was already out as line dev at that point (Ree Soesbee was the line dev at that time). Not that it helps, but it felt like the people who worked on the L5R adventures in the early days only vaguely had any idea about the RPG itself and would often blatantly ignore how lethal the game was in making encounters and would openly shrug on the page when asked why, say, a member of the Dragon Clan would visit the Crab Wall. (The quote was something like "Oh, who knows why the Dragon do anything?")
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Jun 19, 2022 21:23
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Continuing the Blade Runner chat, did you all know that there was a tabletop miniature skirmish game that could be played solo set in a legally distinct Blade Runner-like universe? It is called The Department and it was successfully kickstarted. It was published in 2012. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/212581/The-Department quote:The Department is a tabletop miniature game set in a near future America where Fabricated Human Simulants, also known as fabricants, walk among us. Players take on the role of agents from the U.S. Department of Fabricant Management, a government department charged with policing fabricants and fighting the increasing instances of fabricant-related terrorism. The Department is meant to be the first tabletop police procedural game that requires no Game Master to play. Players will use sleuthing, investigation, interrogation, and combat to hunt down and stop fabricant terrorist cells. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/212581/The-Department If you want to know how it plays, go check out the blog (not mine) here: http://redplayerone.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20Department
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Jun 20, 2022 00:00
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Helical Nightmares posted:Continuing the Blade Runner chat, did you all know that there was a tabletop miniature skirmish game that could be played solo set in a legally distinct Blade Runner-like universe? Looks pretty rad, thanks! That reminds, even as much of a mark as I am for Blade Runner, the art feels so off-brand on it that even I can't bring myself to buy this official card game. I'm not even saying I think the art sucks, it's fine, just nothing about it says Blade Runner to me.  
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jun 20, 2022 |
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Jun 20, 2022 01:25
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Plutonis posted:Question. Did Josh Timbrook work on any TTRPG after his work illustrating the WOD books? Been reading my old oWoD books and man I really like his artstyle. I've often wondered the same, I always enjoyed his stuff in those books.
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Jun 20, 2022 01:51
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There's also Inhuman Conditions, a social deduction card game that replicates the Voight-Kampf test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBDX7-cTJZ4 https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/261403/inhuman-conditions
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Jun 20, 2022 01:52
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FMguru posted:There's also Inhuman Conditions, a social deduction card game that replicates the Voight-Kampf test. If they ever do a reprint, I am going to buy a copy immediately, but the print-and-play just doesn't have the same pizazz as the box edition.
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Jun 20, 2022 05:38
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Where's the PbtA thread? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't find it and search seems completely hosed
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Jun 20, 2022 22:01
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Bottom Liner posted:Where's the PbtA thread? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't find it and search seems completely hosed https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3727833 You gotta bring me a picture of a bear cub in a hammock.
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Jun 20, 2022 22:07
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Thinking about mega dungeons, any recommendations? Looking for modules that will give me a feel for the concept but aren't too pricey.
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Jun 23, 2022 01:32
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super sweet best pal posted:Thinking about mega dungeons, any recommendations? Looking for modules that will give me a feel for the concept but aren't too pricey. Can't get cheaper or more emblematic than Stonehell: https://www.lulu.com/shop/michael-curtis/stonehell-dungeon-down-night-haunted-halls-ebook/ebook/product-16061291.html?page=1&pageSize=4
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Jun 23, 2022 02:00
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Stonehell and Anomalous Subsurface Environment are the big two. Esoteric Enterprises has a good megadungeon builder but the game system attached to it is pretty bad
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Jun 23, 2022 19:05
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FMguru posted:There's also Inhuman Conditions, a social deduction card game that replicates the Voight-Kampf test. I grabbed this game a couple years ago and unfortunately could not figure out how to set it up. Pulled it out when we had some friends over because I assumed it would be quick to learn and set up but I couldn't even figure out what components the instructions were referring to half the time, and everything in the box seemed to be totally unsorted. After 20 minutes or so of trying to figure out what the instructions were saying, we had to shelve it and do something else, unfortunately. I'm sure the game is fun, but definitely figure it out beforehand. It did not turn out to be a game we could learn how to play on the spot.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:06
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Assuming you can reliably learn a game and be set up and playing in 20 minutes is a lot. Like, there’s a reason that being able to do that is a rare bonus that games advertise when they can. It’s super great when that works out, but seriously popping open the box for the first time, to learning and teaching and playing the game for a whole group in 20 minutes? I’m having a hard time thinking of any games that do that. Chess can’t. Checkers maybe? Even most card games you’re really cheating because you shave off 10 minutes because you assume everyone already knows a 52-card French-suited deck. (e.g. Crazy 8s and Mau Mau are literally the exact same deck but Mau Mau takes longer since it uses Bavarian cards, even though it’s only cosmetically different). That totally sucks and I bet that left a bad taste in your mouth, but I really don’t know if that’s the game’s fault. Codenames is a brilliant, super simple party game that everyone adores and I don’t think it can do that either, reliably with a group that aren’t super invested.
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Jun 24, 2022 21:35
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Which is probably one of the big reasons Cards Against Humanity is so popular, as it's one of those games that really does only take a couple minutes to learn
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Jun 24, 2022 21:40
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Xiahou Dun posted:Codenames is a brilliant, super simple party game that everyone adores
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Jun 24, 2022 21:41
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there's always Fluxx
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Jun 24, 2022 21:59
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mellonbread posted:I don't love Codenames, although in fairness that has nothing to do with rules complexity. I dislike how the I GO U GO format leaves half the table sitting around waiting patiently for the other group to play. Which is one of the main reasons I'm not a huge boardgame guy in general. That's a totally fair criticism, but just like "it takes time to learn the rules and set up" it's one that's semi-obligatory for boardgaming as a hobby. Of course there are exceptions to both (e.g. real-time games, games with very simple or emergent rules), but there's a certain point where it's not a critique of an individual game and becomes a criticism of a the hobby as a whole, geh? To me at least, and Nickoten can chime in, "this boardgame wasn't conducive to getting going in less than 20 minutes" is a lot like going to an Indian restaurant, ordering a vindaloo and then being surprised it's spicy. I'm sad it didn't work out, but also I don't really know what else was supposed to happen. Like I'm seriously trying to think of any game of non-trivial complexity (i.e. not rock-paper-scissors or Nim or something) that you could legit learn as a group in 20 minutes, all participants, starting from complete ignorance. (I'm purposely ignoring things that get a cheating head-start from cultural osmosis like French-suited cards because that's not the game being simple, that's just letting you have already learned it.) And again, that sucks and we should have more games that on-ramp people, but it doesn't strike me as a very good criticism of a particular game.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:08
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Codenames should absolutely involve a lot of poo poo talking and bad clues from the other team. It should never be a quiet contemplative game.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:18
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It seemed like a light game I could play with social guests, and we've generally been fine with figuring out the rules together. But after not even making progress in figuring out what the pieces were after 20 minutes we gave up. I learn games together with people all the time. We don't always have the game totally figured out after 20 minutes but we can often at least get going or get the game set up, even if it's not a simple one. Some examples of games I've been able to pretty quickly figure out with people starting from total ignorance include: King of Tokyo, Dominion, Stone Age, Small World, and Forbidden Island/Desert. And this is leaving out like party games where you can explain the basic play in less than one minute like Werewolf, Snake Oil, etc. The examples of Chess and card games are bewildering to me. Neither Chess nor any card game I've ever seen takes more than 20 minutes to get someone understanding and playing the game on a basic level. Also I don't understand this point about it being good or bad criticism. I'm not proffering criticism, I'm just saying what happened when I tried to play it. I play board games a lot and had what I felt was a difficult time figuring this one out. Do with the info as you like!
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Jun 24, 2022 22:28
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Xiahou Dun posted:Like I'm seriously trying to think of any game of non-trivial complexity (i.e. not rock-paper-scissors or Nim or something) that you could legit learn as a group in 20 minutes, all participants, starting from complete ignorance. (I'm purposely ignoring things that get a cheating head-start from cultural osmosis like French-suited cards because that's not the game being simple, that's just letting you have already learned it.) Robo Rally, in terms of board games, is a good example. It has very simple rules, but they interact to produce complex gameplay. It's a good example of the classic "easy to learn, hard to master," in my opinion, since it's easy to get started playing but also very easy to gently caress up.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:32
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Bottom Liner posted:Codenames should absolutely involve a lot of poo poo talking and bad clues from the other team. It should never be a quiet contemplative game. Articulate is the superior game for when you want to yell at your friends and family and call them a bunch of morons. My sisters and I still bitch about disputes that happened fifteen years ago.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:33
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Articulate is the superior game for when you want to yell at your friends and family and call them a bunch of morons. My sisters and I still bitch about disputes that happened fifteen years ago. Anomia is a good one in this category too although it doesn't have the team aspect
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Jun 24, 2022 22:39
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Tarnop posted:Anomia is a good one in this category too although it doesn't have the team aspect O good call. How did I forget about Anomia. That game owns. Nickoten posted:It seemed like a light game I could play with social guests, and we've generally been fine with figuring out the rules together. But after not even making progress in figuring out what the pieces were after 20 minutes we gave up. I'm not like trying to put you on blast as the person bad at learning games or something. I'm starting a conversation about difficulty in learning boardgames as a critique in general (and doing a bad job of segueing, sorry.) And I'm specifically calling out chess and cards because I don't think you appreciate how many mechanics you've internalized that are giving you a leg up when you teach someone a card game. So it might seem really quick and easy to learn, because you have analogues to other games to help you. My family has always played with Bavarian cards (different numbers and suits) and otherwise super intelligent people can get entirely stymied and waste 20 minutes not understanding the differences and they're entirely cosmetic, let alone when they actually have to learn new mechanics. I've taught literally the exact same game with French cards and Bavarian cards and the latter takes significantly longer just because of some different art and names.
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Jun 24, 2022 22:57
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Yeah I’m not saying any person should be able to learn any board game in 20 minutes. I’m also not saying you should be able to learn this one in 20 minutes. I’m saying we got frustrated and quit after that time based on our expectations. And for some reason that turned into this frankly bizarre debate I don’t have any interest in.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:04
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Tarnop posted:Anomia is a good one in this category too although it doesn't have the team aspect That looks good, but less likely to start screaming matches about "what the gently caress was that clue?" vs "it's so obvious how did you not get that, god why did you have to be on my team"
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Jun 24, 2022 23:24
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Nickoten posted:Yeah I’m not saying any person should be able to learn any board game in 20 minutes. I’m also not saying you should be able to learn this one in 20 minutes. I’m saying we got frustrated and quit after that time based on our expectations. And for some reason that turned into this frankly bizarre debate I don’t have any interest in. Well I'm sorry if you feel forced to discuss something that you don't want to. Although I don't actually see any debate per se, there's not exactly anything under contention. Thinking about this some more, some of Knizia's games might be a good for this : a lot of games like Lost Cities and Battle Line are relatively simple to teach (I've done it in less than a minute if I can use math terminology), because the actual difficulty is that's it's just a really complicated math problem with an unpredictable opponent and your own past actions messing with you.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:26
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Strom Cuzewon posted:That looks good, but less likely to start screaming matches about "what the gently caress was that clue?" vs "it's so obvious how did you not get that, god why did you have to be on my team" All varieties of Time's Up / Monikers are great for this. You even end up developing your own strange visual language with your team-mates it's incredible to see in action. Basically, imagine Articulate but it gradually turns into charades using the same set of answer cards each round
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Jun 24, 2022 23:28
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PurpleXVI posted:Robo Rally, in terms of board games, is a good example. It has very simple rules, but they interact to produce complex gameplay. It's a good example of the classic "easy to learn, hard to master," in my opinion, since it's easy to get started playing but also very easy to gently caress up. Is that game masterable at all though? I guess you can get better at reading the board to know what your options are, you can get better at knowing which cards are worth buying or not, and you can get better at filling out your queue with your intended moves. However, you don't get any insight into your opponents cards, and you have very little insight into whether or not they're able to even correctly fill out their moves, and since your plan almost always interacts with theirs it almost always comes down to luck. It's a fun game, but it's a terrible example.
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Jun 25, 2022 19:55
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Now I’m wondering how randomization enters into this question. Like something like roulette or craps is weird : on the one hand they’re absolutely trivial to learn, there are barely even decision points ; on the other it’s just “can you calculate odds? If yes, never play unless you happen to be a casino”. They don’t so much have a learning curve as a single trick question. Huh. I don’t know if this is good for anything but it’s really making me think about what it means for a game to be complex or difficult to understand.
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Jun 26, 2022 00:10
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A great game about managing randomness is the original Pandemic. It is absolutely masterable, and the genius of its design is the measured and predictable application of randomness. If you keep a cool head you will prevail, and it feels so good. Roborally is sort of designed for the opposite outcome. The fun of the game comes from the best laid plans falling apart. It's designed for chaos. thotsky fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 11:29
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Poker is a game about understanding statistics and variance and being able to calculate odds in your head (both drawing odds and pot odds), but also a game of bluffing. There are many extremely good poker players but because it's an adversarial game and every strategy has an effective counterstrategy once it's identified, the top players can't ever really "solve" the game. You can also learn to play the simplest forms of poker like five card stud in 20m, if you're familiar with a standard bridge deck. If you have a visible reference for the poker hand hierarchy that players can look at that deals with the only real memorization part. Poker is good for 2 to 9 players.
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Jun 28, 2022 23:22
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Does anyone know a good place in (preferably but not necessarily) in Europe that sells hexagonal plastic tokens? I mean to run an Alpha Strike / Battleforce campaign and need something to represent the mechs and all other things. Preferably in three colors for friendlies, enemies and neutrals / targets. Ones that fit in Battletech map hexes.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:25
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Ataxerxes posted:Does anyone know a good place in (preferably but not necessarily) in Europe that sells hexagonal plastic tokens? I mean to run an Alpha Strike / Battleforce campaign and need something to represent the mechs and all other things. Preferably in three colors for friendlies, enemies and neutrals / targets. Ones that fit in Battletech map hexes.
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Jul 3, 2022 18:50
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You know how I'm constantly whining about how someone needs to make an actual proper narrative storytelling game for horror? Someone might have actually done it, finally. I've only gotten to skim some of the demo, so no vouching for quality, but it's at least that thing.
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Jul 5, 2022 17:35
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Interesting find on Twitch. The OG AW 2nd Ed is in the Bundle for Abortion Funds. The description is "There's something wrong with the world and I don't know what it is," which I don't remember being the tagline for AW?
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Jul 5, 2022 18:30
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I couldn't sleep last night and I got a weird half-dream insomnia idea to write & play "D&D," distinctly not D&D. As in, homebrewing at D&D until it became a game I'd want to play and doing an actual play while just saying its homebrew D&D despite being probably closer to Wanderhome or Apocalypse World.
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Jul 5, 2022 18:43
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