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whos that broooown posted:lol at this weakass probe No, it's fair. 2 year olds definitely shouldn't be posting here.
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Jun 26, 2022 07:32
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It seemed to me like pretty good shorthand for a searing indictment of the last ~40 years of US presidents rather than an attempted troll. Like saying Jurassic World is the best Colin Trevorrow movie or the big mac is the best sandwich at McDonald’s.
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Jun 26, 2022 07:33
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Fister Roboto posted:No, it's fair. 2 year olds definitely shouldn't be posting here. Keep it on topic. Thank you.
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Jun 26, 2022 07:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Came up before that the establishment has its youth wing too, and they have been waiting around for 30 years for literally any reward for their service. Joe Kennedy III I think was meant to be their rising star, and fuckin lol. There was a point during the Trump years where they were shuffling through rising stars and "young" up-and-comers but every single one ate total poo poo almost immediately. None of them have mastered the deep political skill of "having a personality" e: The waiting period is vital to make sure that any principles and ideals are slowly ground out of the newcomers and the ruling class can rest assured that they're no danger to anyone important. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 07:45
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theCalamity posted:We shouldn't hold ourselves to the same standard though. They are the ones in power. They have more influence than us. People elected the Democrats into power and the Democrats are doing nothing with it. So, no, we shouldn't be held to the same standards. theCalamity posted:What is it that you can do to push the Democrats left? I donated a lot of money and time to Jessica Cisneros here in Texas. Her opponent, Henry Cuellar, is a real piece of poo poo. It's awful that he won - he's the last anti abortion dem in the house. But guess what: his republican opponent is anti abortion as well, and wants to also end public education, expand gun access and everything else. She was a Ted Cruz staffer, appointed to committees and other things by Trump. She's everything that Cuellar is, but even worse for everything I care about. So even though my candidate lost the primary, and Cuellar is a corrupt conservative Dem, once we step into the voting both, he's still the better choice than his Republican opponent. I know that sounds wild, but when you step into that voting booth for the general election, it's about making the best choice in that moment. As to what effect primarying Dems has to push them left? Cuellar used to vote with 68% alignment with Trump before he was primaried. Once Cisneros began primarying him, that changed to 11% and then 0%. That's an insane turnaround and we should primary every dem like that. So that is
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Jun 26, 2022 07:59
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If you vote for him after that poo poo you’re telling them you’re okay with what they did full stop and that you’ll bend over next time too. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2022 08:31
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:If you vote for him after that poo poo you’re telling them you’re okay with what they did full stop and that you’ll bend over next time too. Yeah, that's been one of the biggest problems for years; The Dems know that all they have to do is be slightly less awful than the Republican candidate and people will pragmatically hold their noses and vote for them because hey, at least they aren't the other guy, and there's rarely a good third party candidate to vote for because the Blue and Red teams made drat sure it was nigh impossible for an alternative to even make it on the ballot.
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Jun 26, 2022 09:36
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Yeah that whole story is like, worse than a parody of liberalism. It's just sad. You described how you were made to compromise everything for effectively no meaningful gain, and made yourself feel good about it because that's how the narrative is supposed to end.
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Jun 26, 2022 09:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah that whole story is like, worse than a parody of liberalism. It's just sad. You described how you were made to compromise everything for effectively no meaningful gain, and made yourself feel good about it because that's how the narrative is supposed to end. Clearly the answer is to not vote and let an even smaller minority be able to vote in a fash. Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 09:52
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Have Some Flowers! posted:As to what effect primarying Dems has to push them left? Cuellar used to vote with 68% alignment with Trump before he was primaried. Once Cisneros began primarying him, that changed to 11% and then 0%. That's an insane turnaround and we should primary every dem like that. Wasn't that primary this year? How many votes did he make between the start of this year's primary and now that would indicate that he is now voting "0%" in alignment with Republicans? Edit: I looked it up myself, I am glad that Cuellar is now voting in lockstep with the left, based on 3 votes so far, all three of which were about Trump's attempted election theft. Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 09:58
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Twincityhacker posted:Clearly the answer is to not vote and let an even smaller minority be able to vote in a fash. Did you miss the part where the Dem was also anti-womens-rights(and if they agreed with the republican on that, they likely agreed on a lot more). Or is "lesser evil" counting degrees of fash now. There was no good decision in that story. It was a pitch-perfect argument against electoralism really, a system that forces you to compromise your values, convince yourself you're doing good to feel better about it, and then gives you absolutely nothing in return is just rotten.
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Jun 26, 2022 10:30
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Yinlock posted:Did you miss the part where the Dem was also anti-womens-rights(and if they agreed with the republican on that, they likely agreed on a lot more). Or is "lesser evil" counting degrees of fash now. Yeah, I got that part that Team Blue put up anti-woman's rights canidate. I also saw that Team Red's cannidate was also anti-woman's rights AND for ending public education, expanding access to guns, and other stuff. So Team Blue is still the lesser evil. What does walking away with uncomprimised values get you? A warm, fuzzy feeling that does nothing for anything else?
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Jun 26, 2022 11:42
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Twincityhacker posted:Yeah, I got that part that Team Blue put up anti-woman's rights canidate. I also saw that Team Red's cannidate was also anti-woman's rights AND for ending public education, expanding access to guns, and other stuff. So Team Blue is still the lesser evil. What does voting for an anti-woman cadidate get you except for a warm fuzzy feeling that does nothing for anything else? Is team blue protecting public education? Is team blue reducing access to guns? Is team blue doing the other stuff? Is Cuellar taking any notable action on these?
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Jun 26, 2022 12:27
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It takes a lot for me to not vote for a Democrat and I get the whole not voting means half a vote for the GOP math, but honestly if I lived in Cuellar's district, I'd write in some silly meme on his race then move on to the next line on the ballot. If the Dems then literally lost the house by one seat, it would be entertaining to see the GOP handle a 1 vote house margin with no room for defections or abstentions.
Rigel fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 12:46
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Twincityhacker posted:Yeah, I got that part that Team Blue put up anti-woman's rights canidate. I also saw that Team Red's cannidate was also anti-woman's rights AND for ending public education, expanding access to guns, and other stuff. So Team Blue is still the lesser evil. This line of thinking is exactly what lead to roe being over turned. Voting for the lesser evil that doesnt share your values is a good way to make sure the people in power don't share your values and will sell you out to stay in power. The Dems are moving right and abandoning trans rights. That's their plan. It's a fantasy world that they're going to find some progressive savior. They have no plans because they don't care.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:12
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whiskey patrol posted:This line of thinking is exactly what lead to roe being over turned. Voting for the lesser evil that doesnt share your values is a good way to make sure the people in power don't share your values and will sell you out to stay in power. No, actually people voting Republican and republicans winning is what got us the current situation.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:26
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hooman posted:What does voting for an anti-woman cadidate get you except for a warm fuzzy feeling that does nothing for anything else? Well, according to his voting record in the US House: https://cuellar.house.gov/voterecord/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjW5dnoj8v4AhW0J0QIHTt4BnQQFnoECAQQAg&usg=AOvVaw3psdTzriLee6tklAt4ozrL He has voted for at least two bills that helps queer people and one for more mental health assesments in schools so far. He also voted yes on the overall gun control package that passed the House. So... yes? Even though he's been in the House a month he has been more in line with my values than the Republican cannidate would have voted.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:42
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Twincityhacker posted:Yeah, I got that part that Team Blue put up anti-woman's rights canidate. I also saw that Team Red's cannidate was also anti-woman's rights AND for ending public education, expanding access to guns, and other stuff. So Team Blue is still the lesser evil. They're also both fash! You're just voting for the fascist who says "I'm only into dehumanizing women and not more". This is exactly how you get walked into "Well, he just wants to dehumanize women and trans people but this guy also hates minorities so I know who I'm voting for". This is how to get walked into accepting fascism, like a frog being boiled who keeps being told that Actually the boiling water keeps you alive. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 13:43
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Vahakyla posted:No, actually people voting Republican and republicans winning is what got us the current situation. Who's job is it to stop republicans winning? Who controls all three federally elected branches now? That would be the democrats who have refused to wield power when they have it to prevent these outcomes. Seems there's more to this than just republicans winning elections. Dems don't even have a plan of resistance now.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:45
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whiskey patrol posted:Who's job is it to stop republicans winning? The voters! That's the whole goddam point of electoral democracy!
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Jun 26, 2022 13:49
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Twincityhacker posted:Well, according to his voting record in the US House: I get that, but he's not a Senator from a red state. He is just merely one MOC. I assumed he probably votes for good things that the GOP would never vote for and is likely less bad, but in this particular case at this time there is probably value in sacrificing him, if in the postmortem it becomes clear to people looking at his race that he lost because Democrats refused to vote for him right after Roe v Wade. This would have the useful outcome of showing that there is no room in the party at all for an anti-choice candidate. Politically, having Roe v Wade overturned 4 months before re-election was probably the worst possible thing that could have happened to Cuellar. who probably calculated that it would never be overturned and he could keep most of the base while going out to find more votes. I don't think he actually wanted it to happen, or at least his campaign cynically should not have wanted it.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:52
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Twincityhacker posted:The voters! That's the whole goddam point of electoral democracy! We're a representative democracy so no, it's the representatives who are elected by voters. Also voting for fash reps doesn't keep fash out. Denying human rights from women is pretty fash.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:52
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whiskey patrol posted:Who's job is it to stop republicans winning? Who controls all three federally elected branches now? That would be the democrats who have refused to wield power when they have it to prevent these outcomes. Seems there's more to this than just republicans winning elections. Dems don't even have a plan of resistance now. The Republicans control the judiciary. They were able to do this because they won the election in 2016.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:52
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Twincityhacker posted:The voters! That's the whole goddam point of electoral democracy! Then why are the republicans winning everything they want under a democratic president and a legislature with a democratic majority?
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Jun 26, 2022 13:53
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I AM GRANDO posted:Then why are the republicans winning everything they want under a democratic president and a legislature with a democratic majority? *Trump wins without a popular vote* "This is the voters fault. Shouldn't they have figured out the right population balance in each state to take this home for Hillary?"
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Jun 26, 2022 13:54
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theCalamity posted:edit: https://twitter.com/BTnewsroom/status/1540762413464580096?s=20&t=rsMnvH7D4Jfm7PzDhsYdVA Beto’s internal monologue during this video: “They’re cheering for me! Did I just found a new party??!?”
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Jun 26, 2022 13:54
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Twincityhacker posted:Well, according to his voting record in the US House: Would those bills have passed without him? If so what's the use of him? Why do you need someone who isn't committed to women's rights there? What bills is he writing/sponsoring? That tells you what he's trying to achieve. EDIT: Rigel above made the case much better. hooman fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 13:54
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Twincityhacker posted:The voters! That's the whole goddam point of electoral democracy! How's that working out in places like Wisconsin or North Carolina? Anyways, the point was voting for people like Cueller is how you see the steady erosion of things like women's rights. How's he going to vote when they federal abortion ban bill hypothetically comes around? Do you think he'll toe the party line or pull a Manchin if the house gets a bill to the floor protecting abortion? He's a democrat. The point is that it's not one side - there are factions of democrats (including house leadership) that are ok with anti-choice candidates, positions, and results. Voting for anti-choice candidtates gets you antichoice results. The electoralism conversation is done to death at this point so I'll drop it.
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Jun 26, 2022 13:56
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I AM GRANDO posted:Then why are the republicans winning everything they want under a democratic president and a legislature with a democratic majority?  So the Republicans wanted the 69 [so far] Biden chosen judges confirmed, gun control legislation, pro LGBT+/numerous other executive orders, the American Rescue Plan act, etc passed?
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Jun 26, 2022 13:59
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Kalit posted:69 Biden thanks for the mental image (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2022 14:02
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Oh yeah probably, which is why we’ll have to work with a structure that isn’t the Dems to actually get anything done, but it’s a longshot immediate goal to make the liberals scared enough to comprise with rather than ignore the left and not flank the GOP from the right. This is the idea that makes the least sense to me, outright revolution (which would fail) seems more likely to succeed than this, where in hell would a US 'labor' party get the resources to do anything on a national scale?
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Jun 26, 2022 14:33
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Twincityhacker posted:So... yes? Even though he's been in the House a month he has been more in line with my values than the Republican cannidate would have voted. He's been in the House since 2005; here are some of his greatest hits about bodily autonomy, according to On the Issues:  That House leadership campaigned & fundraised on his behalf--after the Alito leak that showed that Roe would be overturned--shows just how important abortion rights are to congressional Democrats. If they don't care about these rights, why should I care whether they win elections? eta: An 80 percent rating from the National Right to Life Committee. Jesus christ. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 14:39
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RBA Starblade posted:The Republicans control the judiciary. They were able to do this because they won the election in 2016. And because they can't yet control the executive and legislative, they are legislating their policy goals from the Judiciary. But the moment, maybe as early as 2024, that they control the presidency, the house and 50+1 senators they are going to push massively hard for a total abortion ban in all 50 states. They will sacrifice the filibuster for this. Then once the filibuster is dead with that 'noble sacrifice for life' they can do all sorts of nasty poo poo. Think the liberals might pack the court? They can pack it first! For the good of the country!
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Jun 26, 2022 14:47
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Willa Rogers posted:He's been in the House since 2005; here are some of his greatest hits about bodily autonomy, according to On the Issues: drat, you should've sent the dems a message and voted for his opponent then I guess! https://twitter.com/CasandraLGarcia/status/1540464962191106053?t=_LhjoCudL27MUN7AvrjEog&s=19 democracy prevails!
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Jun 26, 2022 14:50
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the simple reality is that democrats do not plan to do anything about Roe v Wade, now or in the future. it is not, and looks like it never has been, something the party's leadership cares about. and as such, electing more democrats will not solve this problem. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2022 15:04
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Tatsuta Age posted:drat, you should've sent the dems a message and voted for his opponent then I guess! drat, you should have read the parts of my posts where I talk about House leadership campaigning & fundraising for him against a pro-rights candidate after the Alito leak, I guess! eta: He's not running against a Republican till November, but just eked out a bitter primary win against a pro-rights candidate, thanks to the assist from Pelosi & Clyburn. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jun 26, 2022 |
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Jun 26, 2022 15:04
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Rigel posted:there is probably value in sacrificing him, if in the postmortem it becomes clear to people looking at his race that he lost because Democrats refused to vote for him right after Roe v Wade But I also think there's other ways to send the message (primarying him from the left is a big and effective one, and direct action in many forms), and then continue to use that vote to keep the most amount of radical republicans out of the house. Willa Rogers posted:He's been in the House since 2005; here are some of his greatest hits about bodily autonomy, according to On the Issues: Have Some Flowers! posted:Her opponent, Henry Cuellar, is a real piece of poo poo. It's awful that he won We can send a message in a lot of ways in and out of the booth, but our vote can only be spent in a few ways, so hope 'sending a message' is worth what it would cost. Mormon Star Wars posted:Wasn't that primary this year?
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Jun 26, 2022 15:08
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the simple reality is that democrats do not plan to do anything about Roe v Wade, now or in the future. There is literally nothing they can do when Manchin is one of their 50 senators. And I'd argue the voters care less about Roe v Wade than the party leadership. https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1541046784713170944/photo/1 Whether abortion is legal in your state is literally going to depend on the outcome of elections this November, and only half of Democrats and a little over a quarter of Independents are even motivated by the Roe v Wade decision. I've said it before - a women's right to choose is something the vast majority of the country considers "nice to have, but not a requirement" or are outright opposed to it. If someone could wave a wand and make it so, great, if not - no big deal.
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Jun 26, 2022 15:11
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TyrantWD posted:There is literally nothing they can do when Manchin is one of their 50 senators. I would argue that most of those "no effect" people are people like me that overthink this and go "well I was already 100% for sure going to vote, so no effect". The GOP numbers on this question and the fact that Dems are historically unreliable voters is consistent with this. Given that, this poll seems good to me.
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Jun 26, 2022 15:15
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TyrantWD posted:There is literally nothing they can do when Manchin is one of their 50 senators. You don't appear to be factoring "I was already 100% going to vote, it's not possible for it to be any more likely than it already was" people into your analysis. The survey question is about how much the SC decision will move the dial, not how much people care about the issue overall.
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Jun 26, 2022 15:17
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