|
Insurrection comes closest to nailing the TNG vibe, which is also why it doesn't work particularly great as a movie. I think the secret sauce of the TOS movies is that they brought the same characters into a necessarily different vibe, and it worked on the strength of the characters. Ultimately I think TNG's characters were never quite as strong as TOS or DS9. They were a great TV ensemble to do those fun sci-fi plots with. But as far as movie material, they understandably focused a lot on the strongest character, Picard -- and tried to make Data his version of Spock. Unfortunately that's not really enough to carry a whole series of movies, so Picard started doing all kinds of OOC stuff. Generations still would've been solid though, if the writing didn't have so many issues. It gets his character right, and if it had actually turned out great they might've had a better foundation to build on with the next movies.
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 07:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 20:08 |
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:Insurrection comes closest to nailing the TNG vibe, which is also why it doesn't work particularly great as a movie. I get what you mean. Generations was an interesting idea, and I agree that the rest of the movies would have taken a different direction if it landed. I still feel like giving Data the emotion chip was a bad idea. Sure, it's funny to see him joke around, but it was such a huge shift in his character. Choosing the Duras sisters and Malcom McDowell as the villains was also a weird choice. I get that they wanted a tie-in to the series, but the sisters didn't have the same pull as Khan did for TOS. It might have been better just to have the Nexus already be on track to destroy a Federation planet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 08:35
|
|
|
Insurrection owns because it continued the third-movie-in-the-series trend of “main cast wearing casual clothing that just looks wrong”. Search for Spock - Space Pilgrim Chekov Insurrection - Dumpy Dual Bandoleer Worf Beyond - Silk Party Pajamas Spock
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 09:44
|
|
|
insurrection is good specifically because it's just a TNG 2 parter yeah there's a bit too much data humour for the dummies in the back but overall i think it's a solid tng story with some trappings to make it a movie that kind of trample the story but overall, it works for me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 09:58
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:Worf’s whole time in the movie once they rescue Data is just a long running joke about him having pimples If they were going to do that they should've just leaned into hosed up alien puberty. "Sorry, sir, that's my third hand, it grows when you're 14 and then drops off when you reach adulthood!" "Did you know that before they're 16, klingons have paralysing spars? <stab>"
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
Driving a bit of a hike today, any Trek pod recommendations outside of Greatest, Mission Log or Rachel?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 11:20
|
|
|
MillennialVulcan posted:Driving a bit of a hike today, any Trek pod recommendations outside of Greatest, Mission Log or Rachel? I like the podcast We Hate Movies take on their patreon called The Nexus, they do a double feature of one TOS and one TNG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYu8MuDaOLo
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 11:58
|
|
|
who's rachel, cos i could also use a pod is she funny or is she a nerd
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 11:59
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:I get what you mean. Generations was an interesting idea, and I agree that the rest of the movies would have taken a different direction if it landed. I still feel like giving Data the emotion chip was a bad idea. Sure, it's funny to see him joke around, but it was such a huge shift in his character. Choosing the Duras sisters and Malcom McDowell as the villains was also a weird choice. I get that they wanted a tie-in to the series, but the sisters didn't have the same pull as Khan did for TOS. It might have been better just to have the Nexus already be on track to destroy a Federation planet. It's kind of a shame because Lursa and B'Tor would have been good villains to have for the Dominion arc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 13:14
|
|
|
V-Men posted:It's kind of a shame because Lursa and B'Tor would have been good villains to have for the Dominion arc. This is true. It also might have meant Gowron wouldn't have been written as the villain.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 13:34
|
|
|
McDowell’s the best villain TNG ever had. Shamefully underused in his own movie
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 14:25
|
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Yeah, it's not terrible. I like the overall pitch of having a TNG movie where the crew is trying to save a native species from being exploited rather than an ultra-action and special effects bonanza. You can have a goofy movie like that a la The Voyage Home. However, the funny bits in Insurrection just did not land for me. I also hated the Son'a design. It was a cool concept, but they ended up looking way too goofy and plastic. I can forgive that in a TV episode more than in a movie. If you ever get the chance, you should find and read Fade In by Michael Piller. It’s and entire book about how Insurrection went from the high concept, meaningful core idea you mentioned… to being Star Trek: Insurrection. And just how he was absolutely worn down by the prospect of trying to make a Star Trek movie under the watch of Rick Berman and the faceless suits above Rick Berman at Paramount who were even worse than he was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 14:58
|
|
|
skasion posted:McDowell’s the best villain TNG ever had. Shamefully underused in his own movie I like how he's not that villainous; yeah, he tortures Geordi offscreen and threatens folks with guns, but mostly he's just hyper-focused on his goal to reach the Nexus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 18:10
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:I like how he's not that villainous; yeah, he tortures Geordi offscreen and threatens folks with guns, but mostly he's just hyper-focused on his goal to reach the Nexus. Soran’s definitely a bad man (remember, he technically killed everyone, they just undid it later), but what makes him work is the desperation and vulnerability he shows. He’s already lost everything—who wouldn’t be tempted to do evil things if you knew it would let you see your family again and live in bliss with them forever? The biggest miss in the movie (and there’s a couple of them) is that it never shows us what Soran finds inside the Nexus.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
skasion posted:McDowell’s the best villain TNG ever had. Shamefully underused in his own movie But he gets the best line of the movie: "Time is the fire in which we burn."
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 18:36
|
|
|
Admiralty Flag posted:But he gets the best line of the movie: "Time is the fire in which we burn." That's one of the few good things from the movie. Great line.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 19:20
|
|
|
skasion posted:The biggest miss in the movie (and there’s a couple of them) is that it never shows us what Soran finds inside the Nexus. Aaagh, poo poo yeah. McDowell could've done an amazing job with that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
skasion posted:The biggest miss in the movie (and there’s a couple of them) is that it never shows us what Soran finds inside the Nexus. I would have liked if they gave some of Guinan's role to him; have Picard realize with or without her that he's in the Nexus, and have him ask her to bring him to Soran. So we see what Soran's discovered, including that, like Guinan, he has an echo, and that echo is experiencing the joy of meeting his family again (since everyone meets everyone when they've "just arrived"). Soran realizes that for him to have that life and be happy, he'd have to take that life and happiness away from the other version of himself, and the other version of him doesn't have the sins he's committed to get here. So he tells Picard how to beat him, and sends him to Kirk when Picard says he can't do it alone, but Soran himself chooses to wait in the Nexus and enjoy what little happiness he can watching his family before Picard and Kirk change the timeline.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 20:27
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:If you ever get the chance, you should find and read Fade In by Michael Piller. It’s and entire book about how Insurrection went from the high concept, meaningful core idea you mentioned… to being Star Trek: Insurrection. And just how he was absolutely worn down by the prospect of trying to make a Star Trek movie under the watch of Rick Berman and the faceless suits above Rick Berman at Paramount who were even worse than he was. My recollection was that the studio notes weren't actually that terrible, all things considered; the whipsawing back and forth over "oh we can't do a fountain of youth story because it will make Patrick Stewart grumpy about feeling old" "oh actually he's fine with the fountain of youth" "what exactly are we insurrecting against" and so on was a much bigger part of it. And, to be blunt, I think Piller himself bears a lot of responsibility; I think he was the wrong guy for the job, with or without Berman and Stewart breathing down his neck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:If you ever get the chance, you should find and read Fade In by Michael Piller. It’s and entire book about how Insurrection went from the high concept, meaningful core idea you mentioned… to being Star Trek: Insurrection. And just how he was absolutely worn down by the prospect of trying to make a Star Trek movie under the watch of Rick Berman and the faceless suits above Rick Berman at Paramount who were even worse than he was. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to check it out. Also, gently caress Rick Berman. Just an absolute shitstain of a person.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 22:50
|
|
|
SNW spoilers from last week's episode, but it's amazing how much more I felt for Hemmer's death than I wouuld for any character in Discovery at this point. Separately, we need to do away with the 90s style "previously on" for episodic shows because they are spoil so much. This is even more the case right now since it's a 1 season 10 episode show, trust your audience to have a memory. The episode would have been cooler if you hadn't pounded GORN GORN GORN into our heads for 2 mintues before the episode started. Gee, I wonder if the thing that killed all the crew was gorn!
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 23:21
|
|
|
Sir Lemming posted:Insurrection comes closest to nailing the TNG vibe, which is also why it doesn't work particularly great as a movie. One thing I love about Insurrection is that it showcases how the Federation would actually prosecute a ground war. DS9 was super unimaginative about how it handled ground combat. In insurrection nobody is actually in danger. Drones fire transporter tags that beam combatants into a humane prison. No Starfleet lives are ever at risk. It's easy to see how Starfleet could get way too comfortable with this method of coercion. It's all so clean and clinical. Just beam the whole population onto a ship, no boots on the ground, transporter filters take away their weapons. It's a Holodeck prison so Starfleet Personnel don't even need to meet their opponents. It would be so so easy to render your enemies helpless and pass judgment on them, without ever looking them in the eye. Deep Space Nine wasn't interested in this form of combat, but in a way it is a better vision of Obama's era of drone combat than TV Star Trek ever produced. Can you imagine how incredibly angry the Jem'Hadar and the Klingons would be if the Federation fought them this way in the 2370s? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 23:56
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:SNW spoilers from last week's episode, but it's amazing how much more I felt for Hemmer's death than I wouuld for any character in Discovery at this point. pal i love the giveaway previously ons 'previously on snw LAAN HEMMER UHURA AND GORN' hmm wonder what they have in store for me today i can't possibly imagine it's fun
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2022 23:59
|
|
|
What’s stupider is that it’s all on a streaming service. No one is going to start with episode 9 - they’ll start with episode 1 and watch it all. Previouslies are from the days when someone could tune into HBO randomly and watch the latest episode of a show with proper ongoing story arcs without being able to catch up beforehand.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
roomtone posted:pal i love the giveaway previously ons Previously Hemmer: “I sure do love being alive!” 
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:11
|
|
|
hemmer says to uhura early in the episode 'my purpose in life is to die by jumping off the ship after i'm impregnated by gorn' and uhura says 'hemmer, no' but if you watch closely, that's actually what happens
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
lmao
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:14
|
|
|
Why don’t y’all press the button to skip the recap or is it a weird paramount plus thing where that isn’t on all versions of their app?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:22
|
|
|
I like SNW so much I even want watch the recaps, which is a nice change for star trek
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:32
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:My recollection was that the studio notes weren't actually that terrible, all things considered; the whipsawing back and forth over "oh we can't do a fountain of youth story because it will make Patrick Stewart grumpy about feeling old" "oh actually he's fine with the fountain of youth" "what exactly are we insurrecting against" and so on was a much bigger part of it. That's a good point. There was always something highly suspect about his stealth hagiography of Berman in Fade In. Also his description of "Roddenberry's Box" and how toxic it it was to actually telling dramatic television stories and yet he found a way to love living inside it and working within its stifling boundaries was equally suspect as well. Spacebump posted:Why don’t y’all press the button to skip the recap or is it a weird paramount plus thing where that isn’t on all versions of their app? I skip the recaps because 1) I'm not terrible at watching television like a lot of people are and I can remember poo poo that happened up to 10 weeks ago, and 2) the recap always spoils things that happen in the episode because it's basically a big giant "HEY REMEMBER THIS THING, TV WATCHING PLEB? IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT OF THIS EPISODE!" and that's just degrading. I never skip the opening of SNW though. Anyone who skips the opening credits is a certified dillhole 
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jul 6, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
i haven't read fade in but i'd be very circumspect about literally any account of what 'really went down' on any star trek production era. these people are frauds by life choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:58
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:I never skip the opening of SNW though. Anyone who skips the opening credits is a certified dillhole outside of that last little TOS wee woo stinger, which i usually either skip or go into the kitchen for, i think it's a great and enthralling title sequence which yeah, i am happy to sit through every week.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 00:59
|
|
|
I read Fade In today and it's definitely not a tell-all expose of a doomed production or anything, it's pretty much just Piller marveling about how many different people you have to satisfy with a movie script. The most negative he gets is about himself and his kneejerk reaction to script notes, really.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 01:03
|
|
|
I both love and need previously ons, but they give away WAY too freakin' much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 01:07
|
|
|
Piller's approach to Insurrection was pretty misguided and those first drafts were full of real bad ideas, if anything it was a good example of how interference from above is sometimes needed, these things are collaborative projects after all
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 02:09
|
|
|
that's the thing with tv, you can never really assign that much blame or credit to an individual. it's a large process.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 02:13
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:One thing I love about Insurrection is that it showcases how the Federation would actually prosecute a ground war. DS9 was super unimaginative about how it handled ground combat. That's a really interesting way to look at it. You're absolutely right that it's the ideal Federation form of neutralizing an enemy. No injuries or casualties, and it helps the Federation move immediately to negotiation. I'd argue that the fact that no one is in danger is the reason why it's not a great analogy to drone usage. Frankly, I think that's why A Taste of Armageddon holds up even today. Yeah, it's a Cold War analogy and the focus is more on nuclear weapons, but it's a battlefield where computers decide who dies and the casualties march into disintegration chambers to die. And it had become so natural to the population that they lived with that for years because this sanitized form of war seemed better than moving toward peace. To me, that's what drone usage has done. Those of us who live in the West enjoy this sanitized form of war while those hit by drone usage still deal with the carnage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 03:29
|
|
|
Spacebump posted:Why don’t y’all press the button to skip the recap or is it a weird paramount plus thing where that isn’t on all versions of their app? The app on my TV doesn’t have that, nor skip intro, and it also takes three minutes in to every episode to not be <480p quality on my 400mbit connection. It’s pretty terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 04:12
|
|
|
MillennialVulcan posted:Driving a bit of a hike today, any Trek pod recommendations outside of Greatest, Mission Log or Rachel? Listen to TOS fight music
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 04:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 20:08 |
|
|
RC Cola posted:Listen to TOS fight music as recited by Jim Carrey in The Cable Guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2022 05:10
|
|