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hyphz posted:Interesting find on Twitch. The OG AW 2nd Ed is in the Bundle for Abortion Funds. The description is "There's something wrong with the world and I don't know what it is," which I don't remember being the tagline for AW? It is the tagline! I have a physical copy of the 1e book and it's the first thing on the back cover, though that version is "Something's wrong with the world and I don't know what it is."
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Jul 5, 2022 18:58
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| # ? May 23, 2024 18:42 |
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hyphz posted:Interesting find on Twitch. The OG AW 2nd Ed is in the Bundle for Abortion Funds. The description is "There's something wrong with the world and I don't know what it is," which I don't remember being the tagline for AW? There's maelstrom in the sky
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Jul 6, 2022 18:18
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Free Cog posted:It is the tagline! I have a physical copy of the 1e book and it's the first thing on the back cover, though that version is "Something's wrong with the world and I don't know what it is." drat if that ain't a mood
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Jul 6, 2022 18:24
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Free Cog posted:It is the tagline! I have a physical copy of the 1e book and it's the first thing on the back cover, though that version is "Something's wrong with the world and I don't know what it is."
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Jul 6, 2022 18:24
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I actually thought it was the tagline for Glitch.
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Jul 7, 2022 02:28
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hyphz posted:Interesting find on Twitch. The OG AW 2nd Ed is in the Bundle for Abortion Funds. The description is "There's something wrong with the world and I don't know what it is," which I don't remember being the tagline for AW? had a quick look at the playbooks (or whatever they're called) and yikes, it seems like it encourages a lot of sex with PCs and NPCs. not quite what i think of when i think "post-apocalyptic world" might still be worth it for learning how to run a PBtA game, but it certainly doesn't sound like it's up my personal alley
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Jul 7, 2022 07:53
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redleader posted:had a quick look at the playbooks (or whatever they're called) and yikes, it seems like it encourages a lot of sex with PCs and NPCs. not quite what i think of when i think "post-apocalyptic world" Sex has a very big place in post-apocalyptic fiction and media, always has and still does (Fury Road is about more than exploding cars) and pbta games are very much about evoking the source material with rules, not just setting. Some people do play the game just ignoring those rules though. thotsky fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 08:08
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I've almost never used the sex moves but it's good they exist.
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Jul 7, 2022 08:13
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Tulip posted:I've almost never used the sex moves but it's good they exist.
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Jul 7, 2022 08:29
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thotsky posted:Sex has a very big place in post-apocalyptic fiction and media, always has and still does (Fury Road is about more than exploding cars) and pbta games are very much about evoking the source material with rules, not just setting. fair call. i am very dense though and bad at subtext (and forget text very quickly)
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Jul 7, 2022 08:42
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Yeah, you can play AW for years and never see anyone use a sex move and ignoring them doesn't hurt the game experience at all. However, if you think they're a dealbreaker for you or your group, look into AW: Burned Over which is a redesigned hack by the original designers and authors. 'No sex moves, a more reigned-in take on violence, less adult horror in the grotesquerie.'
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Jul 7, 2022 08:55
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thotsky posted:Sex has a very big place in post-apocalyptic fiction and media, always has and still does (Fury Road is about more than exploding cars) and pbta games are very much about evoking the source material with rules, not just setting. Fury Road is probably my favourite movie about a victim of sexual assault dealing with that trauma and regaining the confidence to open themselves up to intimacy despite the brutality and unkindness of the world they live in.
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Jul 7, 2022 09:31
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redleader posted:had a quick look at the playbooks (or whatever they're called) and yikes, it seems like it encourages a lot of sex with PCs and NPCs. not quite what i think of when i think "post-apocalyptic world"
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Jul 7, 2022 09:50
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Scratch out sex move and write in intimate moments. Doesn't rule out sex, and includes people who are finally ready to share secrets. The bit in Snowpiercer where they finally talk about cannibalism definitely counts.
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Jul 7, 2022 10:50
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Yeah, you can replace "have sex" with "demonstrate real emotional intimacy or vulnerability to another person" and it works fine, since that's really the point of the moves. You can also play AW where nobody ever triggers the moves and the game will still play well.
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Jul 7, 2022 11:15
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Antivehicular posted:Yeah, you can replace "have sex" with "demonstrate real emotional intimacy or vulnerability to another person" and it works fine, since that's really the point of the moves. You can also play AW where nobody ever triggers the moves and the game will still play well. Flying Circus (which I am finally back to reviewing over in the FATAL & Friends thread after a year-long hiatus!) does exactly this, and also not-coincidentally makes the game far more welcoming to ace and aro characters.
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Jul 7, 2022 11:36
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redleader posted:had a quick look at the playbooks (or whatever they're called) and yikes, it seems like it encourages a lot of sex with PCs and NPCs. not quite what i think of when i think "post-apocalyptic world" It's been discussed before, but sex moves are one of the biggest signs that Vincent Baker is much more of an indie RPG weirdo than most of the people who went on to make games with its system. Hence, why they've been iterated into something that's much more playable if you aren't in the kind of group that can comfortably go "logically, if this was a piece of non-corporate post-apocalyptic media, this is when things would fade to black while these characters had sex". Both in the direct evolution on making them about moments of emotional intimacy, and with things like Masks' "when you share a triumphant celebration with your team, X" moves for each playbook.
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Jul 7, 2022 13:20
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GimpInBlack posted:Flying Circus (which I am finally back to reviewing over in the FATAL & Friends thread after a year-long hiatus!) does exactly this, and also not-coincidentally makes the game far more welcoming to ace and aro characters. The snippets you keep posting are giving me the opposite impression tbh
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Jul 7, 2022 13:39
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Farting Circus
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Jul 7, 2022 13:40
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Lurks With Wolves posted:It's been discussed before, but sex moves are one of the biggest signs that Vincent Baker is much more of an indie RPG weirdo than most of the people who went on to make games with its system. Hence, why they've been iterated into something that's much more playable if you aren't in the kind of group that can comfortably go "logically, if this was a piece of non-corporate post-apocalyptic media, this is when things would fade to black while these characters had sex". Both in the direct evolution on making them about moments of emotional intimacy, and with things like Masks' "when you share a triumphant celebration with your team, X" moves for each playbook. My hypothesis is that the sex moves are not really Vincent's contribution but Meguey's. Partially this is based on Vincent himself saying that he finds sex at the table to be uncomfortable and that he's unwilling to RP sex with other players, but also by comparing writing credits - consider Mobile Frame Zero: Rapid Attack which has Vincent but no Meguey writing to Mobile Frame Zero: Firebrands, where Meguey has primary writing credits. And for all the blatant transgressiveness of Poison'd, sex plays a very minor role in it.
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Jul 7, 2022 14:36
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Tulip posted:My hypothesis is that the sex moves are not really Vincent's contribution but Meguey's. Partially this is based on Vincent himself saying that he finds sex at the table to be uncomfortable and that he's unwilling to RP sex with other players, but also by comparing writing credits - consider Mobile Frame Zero: Rapid Attack which has Vincent but no Meguey writing to Mobile Frame Zero: Firebrands, where Meguey has primary writing credits. And for all the blatant transgressiveness of Poison'd, sex plays a very minor role in it. Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but Psi*Run is entirely credited to Meguey Baker and has no sex mechanics or really sexual content at all. Just as another data point.
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Jul 7, 2022 14:38
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Tulip posted:My hypothesis is that the sex moves are not really Vincent's contribution but Meguey's. Partially this is based on Vincent himself saying that he finds sex at the table to be uncomfortable and that he's unwilling to RP sex with other players, but also by comparing writing credits - consider Mobile Frame Zero: Rapid Attack which has Vincent but no Meguey writing to Mobile Frame Zero: Firebrands, where Meguey has primary writing credits. And for all the blatant transgressiveness of Poison'd, sex plays a very minor role in it. I also just forget that Apocalypse World was actually written by a writing team and not just one person. I do stand by the idea that we've collectively forgotten how weird and indie Apocalypse World is until the sex move conversation restarts, though.
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Jul 7, 2022 14:50
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GimpInBlack posted:Not necessarily saying you're wrong, but Psi*Run is entirely credited to Meguey Baker and has no sex mechanics or really sexual content at all. Just as another data point. for sure, and there's also no explicit sex in 1001 night (to be clear i don't have psi*run so wasn't able to check, nor do i have the girls' school game that sounds cool). i don't think she feels compelled to write about it (she's pretty clearly compelled by subaltern themes), but i do think she's more comfortable with it than her husband Lurks With Wolves posted:I also just forget that Apocalypse World was actually written by a writing team and not just one person. I do stand by the idea that we've collectively forgotten how weird and indie Apocalypse World is until the sex move conversation restarts, though. that's fair, though i think that's more an indictment of our culture (and a stronger mark again in AW's favor) than anything else e and yeah people do tend to forget its a team, so i tend to like to remind people b/c well collaboration is important and its not great that it seems like its always her that is forgotten rather than him
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Jul 7, 2022 14:56
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Tulip posted:My hypothesis is that the sex moves are not really Vincent's contribution but Meguey's. Partially this is based on Vincent himself saying that he finds sex at the table to be uncomfortable and that he's unwilling to RP sex with other players, but also by comparing writing credits - consider Mobile Frame Zero: Rapid Attack which has Vincent but no Meguey writing to Mobile Frame Zero: Firebrands, where Meguey has primary writing credits. And for all the blatant transgressiveness of Poison'd, sex plays a very minor role in it. The group I'm in (which includes BlackIronHeart) has played many, many campaigns of AW by now, and while dozens of characters have used sex moves, we have never, ever role-played the sex. The GM might ask a question or ask for a Seduce roll to determine if sex is what's going to happen, but once we establish that it is indeed sex and not just flirting or hanging out, we just skip ahead. I admit that in my youth I was in other campaigns with other gaming groups where different choices were made. In my 20s, I was a lot more into talking about sex. I'm a couple decades older now and just don't think I have much to say about sex that hasn't already been said. 
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Jul 7, 2022 15:17
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What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic?
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Jul 7, 2022 15:41
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Leraika posted:The snippets you keep posting are giving me the opposite impression tbh you know, i'd have figured it too, but somehow flying circus has a solid ace contingent on the discord and stuff not, like, a problem, but certainly not what i was expecting when i was putting all the kinks into it
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Jul 7, 2022 15:41
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Ominous Jazz posted:What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic? I play with one regular group so this isn't as big an issue, but: people are generally pretty good about boundaries with violence in collaborative fiction and not crossing them. People are generally really bad about boundaries with sex stuff and there are way too many horror stories about it. So I view the two differently based on that. (When we were doing AW we did change sex moves to "moment of intimacy" or whatever phrasing we used. Never got far enough to actually use them though.)
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Jul 7, 2022 15:43
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open_sketchbook posted:you know, i'd have figured it too, but somehow flying circus has a solid ace contingent on the discord and stuff Congratulations on appealing to all the demographics! I do need to snag a copy and read through myself (though I suspect it will be too crunchy for me).
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Jul 7, 2022 15:48
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Roleplayed sexual intimacy is exposing and can easily involve having to becoming emotionally vulnerable and face peer judgement of extremely personal matters. Playing a serial killer, vernacularly, doesn’t really do that: it’s a power fantasy.
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Jul 7, 2022 15:50
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Ominous Jazz posted:What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic? Because everyone knows I'm not really going to stab my table buddy. I'm certainly not going to fireball them. For the record, the only time the sex moves (or "special moves" in 2nd Ed) came up in the AW games I played was as bad puns (like, about some NPCs, "You might say they're friends with special moves?")
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Jul 7, 2022 16:11
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hyphz posted:Because everyone knows I'm not really going to stab my table buddy. I'm certainly not going to fireball them. But you might gently caress them and so you don't want to roleplay that out beforehand?
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Jul 7, 2022 16:14
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It's because sex is lame and for nerds, OP.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:24
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Ominous Jazz posted:What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic? * If you are at a table with your personal significant other, having your character explicitly engage in intimacy like that may lead to social tension and awkwardness later which Bhikku Apocalypse World Writing Team doesn't have to deal with, and you do * Classing it as sex move vs. intimacy move would tend to take it off the table for people whose character, for whatever reason, is not particularly sexual. Like "Well my guy is basically Darkman and as such," or "I am a Monk of the Apocalypse and swore a vow to Never gently caress" etc.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:27
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Ominous Jazz posted:What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic? 
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Jul 7, 2022 16:54
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I will say that if I can ever get my friends to play Firebrands again, I'd reskin Stealing Time Together as gently caress It Dude Lets Go Bowling.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:55
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redleader posted:had a quick look at the playbooks (or whatever they're called) and yikes, it seems like it encourages a lot of sex with PCs and NPCs. not quite what i think of when i think "post-apocalyptic world" The bundle also contains "burned over" which is their rebuilt playbooks that don't contain any sex moves.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:55
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There is absolutely no way I will ever roleplay any kind of sexual intimacy with my group that consists of a bunch awkward engineers
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Jul 7, 2022 17:36
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The only requirement to use a sex move is for the sex to also actually happen in the narrative. You don't have to roleplay anything.
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Jul 7, 2022 17:44
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Ominous Jazz posted:What does it say about the hobby to be comfortable role-playing a wandering serial killer in every RPG but the idea of your post apocalyptic Hell person making an emotional and physical connection even though you don't have describe it past "you did it" gets everyone shy and apologetic? That's more of an issue with the society we all we raised and live in rather than an RPG-specific problem.
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Jul 7, 2022 20:04
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Also I can have sex in real life, so playing sexual characters seems redundant. I don't roleplay bowling, mowing or spreadsheeting either.
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Jul 7, 2022 20:21
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