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The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

p' sure that before mao died all the quality of life indicators like food security and life expectancy and infant mortality and literacy rates and not trying to invade vietnam were all solidly and steadily going up. so there doesn't seem to me that there was any real compelling peasant/proletariat interest to incentivize giving any economic or political power back to the rentiers

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genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

it shows when western leaders say that they should fling open the doors to accept millions of ukrainian refugees, no problem! and these are often the "good-minded" liberal people who say this. i think many people in the non-white countries in the world immediately recognize that for what it is. the U.S.-led liberal ideology professes a universality when it actually reflects a particular white supremacist conception of the world organized in a pyramid-shaped hierarchy and a neoliberal, capitalistic, privatized world order controlled by western elites and multinational corporations.


A bit of an American take, this. We euros have a lot of practice in doing non-skin based racism. We can do racism against people you have to get to pronounce a single handful of words to find out. Bit of an aside.

Pomeroy
Apr 20, 2020

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

I have nothing to add, but this is good stuff. Thanks. I had one question:

Can you elaborate? It's not clear to me that the capitalist class in China under the rule of the CPC is better off than a capitalist class ruling China but under the thumb of American imperialists. Is it that the Americans simply don't have enough to offer? I could see that now but I'm not sure it was the case in the 80s and 90s. What is it specifically about Chinese capitalists that would make it difficult for Western imperialists to buy them out (now, and historically)?

Chinese capital is rising and expanding, why settle for managing a share of the American-run world market, (and they can be quite sure that share would be, in per capita terms, much closer to a third world level than a NATO / Japan junior partner level) and negotiating, from a position of weakness, for some percentage of the resulting profits, when they could be competing on an equal footing? I wouldn't argue it's anything intrinsically unique to Chinese capitalists, just they're nearly unique in being in a country that was strong enough, and in an advantageous enough international position (during the later parts of the cold war) to prevent American capitalists from effectively crushing them before they could become effective competitors.

EDIT: to put it another way, these kind of interests would in a sense emerge "naturally" in a developing capitalist country, it's just that developing capitalist countries don't generally have any means to resist US imperialism strangling that development.

Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 00:45 on Jul 10, 2022

Trash Ops
Jun 19, 2012

im having fun, isnt everyone else?

the great firewall was more about developing a chinese tech industry than censorship tbh

Pomeroy
Apr 20, 2020
and a drat good call at that

Pomeroy has issued a correction as of 04:30 on Jul 10, 2022

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Trash Ops posted:

the great firewall was more about developing a chinese tech industry than censorship tbh

Wtf, why'd this guy get banned for pointing out there was a pedophile manga thread in adtrw?

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018



Lol this is a very adorable anti smoking (?) ad.

Mia Wasikowska
Oct 7, 2006

genericnick posted:

A bit of an American take, this. We euros have a lot of practice in doing non-skin based racism. We can do racism against people you have to get to pronounce a single handful of words to find out. Bit of an aside.

yeah but you underestimate the impact of settlerism on white american racism

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


AnimeIsTrash posted:



Lol this is a very adorable anti smoking (?) ad.

Deng: this is a bad cat

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

gradenko_2000 posted:

"state capitalism" is a phrase invented by capitalists to deny the successes of Actually Existing Socialism. Pay that poo poo no mind.

i posted something like this in the first thread but i've seen "state capitalism" used to mean two or even three different things:

1. capitalism so advanced as to be managed and not just safeguarded by a state, as lenin identified in germany or something in one tract in which he used the phrase

2. capitalism allowed to operate within but held in check by a socialist state, as lenin claimed was done in the NEP and many would claim china does now

3. if the state buys all your labor and sells you all your products then the state is just one big capitalist, so (socialist country) was/is capitalist actually

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth

gradenko_2000 posted:

"state capitalism" is a phrase invented by capitalists to deny the successes of Actually Existing Socialism. Pay that poo poo no mind.

Lasting Damage
Feb 26, 2006

Fallen Rib
state capitalism strikes me as one of those ideas created by the liberal habit of conceptualizing things only as a list of bullet point features, and not their actual relations.

the mechanics of how a socialist state operates the means of production seems largely secondary to the requirement that they must do whatever they are doing to uphold a dictatorship of the proletariat

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

Ferrinus posted:

i posted something like this in the first thread but i've seen "state capitalism" used to mean two or even three different things:

1. capitalism so advanced as to be managed and not just safeguarded by a state, as lenin identified in germany or something in one tract in which he used the phrase

2. capitalism allowed to operate within but held in check by a socialist state, as lenin claimed was done in the NEP and many would claim china does now

3. if the state buys all your labor and sells you all your products then the state is just one big capitalist, so (socialist country) was/is capitalist actually

No one reads anything you post because you suck rear end.

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

AnimeIsTrash posted:

No one reads anything you post because you suck rear end.

i real all their posts, and i stroke my chin and go "hmm" at every single one. same with yours.

animist
Aug 28, 2018
stroking his chin and going "hmm" is actually how marx got good at political economy. its also why his beard grew so long

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp

animist posted:

stroking his chin and going "hmm" is actually how marx got good at political economy. its also why his beard grew so long

That's a bunch of Lamarky

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Cuttlefush posted:

That's a bunch of Lamarky

a big stinking lie… Cinco de Mayo

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

https://twitter.com/TheIntlMagz/status/1544030187750244355?cxt=HHwWhoCq9c3Rv-0qAAAA

MLSM
Apr 3, 2021

by Azathoth
Why the gently caress is this book $200 ?? https://www.amazon.com/Marxs-Capital-Capitalism-Limits-State-dp-0815347952/dp/0815347952/ref=mt_other?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1657548783

:nallears:

In Training
Jun 28, 2008

Supply and demand

Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.


I'm guessing it's priced as a university textbook.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

AnimeIsTrash posted:

No one reads anything you post because you suck rear end.

could you remind me who you are and what we disagree about

AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

You can't play that card when everyone knows you're the tedious moron who constantly posts 800000 words no one reads.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Ferrinus supports D&D 4th Edition. For that he has my blessing. Vaya con dios.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
i like the 2022 version of d&d where the recommended player alignment goes from cautiously centrist liberal to azov supporter

Southpaugh
May 26, 2007

Smokey Bacon


ferrinus is alright even if he has academic brain cancer

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

Ferrinus supports D&D 4th Edition. For that he has my blessing. Vaya con dios.

4th edition is revisionist

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Cpt_Obvious posted:

4th edition is revisionist

5th edition is an infantile disorder

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
even as a caster main, 4th edition was finally a d&d game where people other than aristocratic casters got to actually play lol how is that revisionist

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

AnimeIsTrash posted:

You can't play that card when everyone knows you're the tedious moron who constantly posts 800000 words no one reads.

yes but... who are you. did you change your avatar. did we ever argue about anything

Azathoth
Apr 3, 2001

Ferrinus posted:

yes but... who are you. did you change your avatar. did we ever argue about anything

I miss Zorak

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

Pathfinder is reactionary.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Pathfinder is reactionary.

3e: the tsardom
4e: the ussr
5e: the russian federation

i think this makes pathfinder ukraine

Serf
May 5, 2011


does this mean pf2e is the ussr 2 that the tweet promised us

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

Ferrinus posted:

3e: the tsardom
4e: the ussr
5e: the russian federation

i think this makes pathfinder ukraine

1e: kievan rus
2e: muscovy

ukraine is probably the osr movement.

Comrade Koba has issued a correction as of 21:36 on Jul 11, 2022

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

the satanic panic was the Baltic crusades, this checks out

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

1st edition: Bourgeois Revolution
2nd edition: Bourgeois economics
3rd edition: an op
3.5: Blowback
4th: Trotskyist revisionism
Pathfinder: reactionary
5th: State Capitalism

Cpt_Obvious has issued a correction as of 22:53 on Jul 11, 2022

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

I want to read some mao. I want a book of mao's writings that will fit into a cargo pocket

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

The Voice of Labor posted:

I want to read some mao. I want a book of mao's writings that will fit into a cargo pocket

if you’re working class enough to wear cargo shorts with huge pockets that can carry all volumes of capital, anything the chairman wrote should fit the bill

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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

The Voice of Labor posted:

I want to read some mao. I want a book of mao's writings that will fit into a cargo pocket

i literally have a little red book that i carried around in my pocket for a while as i was working through it

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