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Pigbuster
Sep 12, 2010

Fun Shoe

NorgLyle posted:

One of the best things about Jenny Nicholson to me is that, much like the crew at Red Letter Media, she seems to be aware of the fact that other people have opinions and ideas about things but in general does not really care. 'Here's the video I made about the thing I wanted to talk about. See ya next time.'

The most she's ever gone beyond ripping on something to ripping on its creator was her video on Escape From Tomorrow, and that was because the guy was obnoxious in a very particular dumb way.

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DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Farg posted:

Locked tomb is v. Homestuck >:)

It's certainly posthomestuck. It's a cast choc full of vriskas, for one.

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
I referred to The Locked Tomb as a post-homestuck artifact and it felt right.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

muscles like this! posted:

It's very difficult not to read that interpretation into The Incredibles. At least in Tomorrowland the people hoarding the super science are the bad guys. Although both sides in that movie kind of come across like the Four from Planetary.

The counterargument for The Incredibles is that helping other people is treated as a moral duty and that the government is well-intentioned while corporations are greedy at best and super-evil at worst.

I get why the reading exists, I just think that Ayn Rand would be horrified by the film.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Doctor Spaceman posted:

The counterargument for The Incredibles is that helping other people is treated as a moral duty and that the government is well-intentioned while corporations are greedy at best and super-evil at worst.

I get why the reading exists, I just think that Ayn Rand would be horrified by the film.

Considering most media produced both after and before her death would have horrified Ayn Rand, that's not exactly the highest of bars to clear :v:

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Mr. Incredible not taking the free child volunteer would probably also horrify Ayn Rand.

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



volunteering is a moral evil because it artificially devalues the activity in the marketplace

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



Pigbuster posted:

The most she's ever gone beyond ripping on something to ripping on its creator was her video on Escape From Tomorrow, and that was because the guy was obnoxious in a very particular dumb way.

yeah that video is a pro watch, especially if you had watched the movie prior without knowing about all the weird hang-ups of the creator. Boingboing (lol showing my age) raved about it and when I finally did watch it I was like "wow how would anybody like this" and the Jenny Nicholson video justified my dislike of the film

macabresca
Jan 26, 2019

I WANNA HUG

Ghostlight posted:

Much like all attempts to rationalise beliefs, this selectively ignores a lot of myth. For example, Hades is not death or the god of death, he doesn't collect souls or mete out fatalities. He is god of the underground and its mineral wealth - he rules the dead simply because the dead are underground, but "rules" is inaccurate because it took a long time for the Greeks to even think of there being an 'afterlife', as classically all souls in Hades are essentially inert shades who are granted a half-life only through remembrances and human blood.

I mean, it's very plainly a 'just so' story about winter. Hades, lord of the invisible world, captures Persephone because she represents life, which visibly disappears during winter to return in spring; just as the sun disappears below the ground only to reappear the next morning. He does so at Zeus' request because of course Zeus is in charge of the world which very obviously has seasonal cycles, so it must be by his assent. I agree that, broadly, the Greek gods' characterisations reflect the nature of what they are in charge of, but Hades is not in charge of fickle death - he is only custodian of the already dead, and all he asks from them are that they stay silent and still forever.

Yeah, I feel like this tumblr post I quoted (and probably many other people) confuse Hades and Thanatos. It's actually pretty interesting how minor Thanatos is in Greek mythology compared to Hades. You'd think death is a big deal

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

macabresca posted:

Yeah, I feel like this tumblr post I quoted (and probably many other people) confuse Hades and Thanatos. It's actually pretty interesting how minor Thanatos is in Greek mythology compared to Hades. You'd think death is a big deal

if that video linked earlier is anything to go by, Hades wasn’t all that prominent either, he just got more popular in contemporary times as an easy Satan analogue

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



He definitely got a bigger push after rebranding to Pluto and concentrating on the jewels and wealth gimmick.

macabresca
Jan 26, 2019

I WANNA HUG
Yeah, iirc Hades was pretty chill all things considered, other than this one incident with Persephone. Zeus though? What an rear end in a top hat!

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I always liked the Hades boss fight in God of War 3 because he's this giant masked dude with blades sticking out of his back but I can't help but feel sorry for him. Kratos falls into the underworld in every single game and slaughters his way out each time, so I imagine Hades was just completely fed up with his poo poo by the time 3 came out.

KingKalamari
Aug 24, 2007

Fuzzy dice, bongos in the back
My ship of love is ready to attack

Ghostlight posted:

volunteering is a moral evil because it artificially devalues the activity in the marketplace

And this is why Steve Ditko being a hardcore Randroid seems so weird in comparison to his most popular creation, Spider-Man. I know everybody's seen those panels with early era Peter Parker being an Objectivist poo poo head, or the more recent panel of Spider-Man embarrassedly reflecting on that week in high school when he got into Ayn Rand and thought he was John Galt II, but it's really interesting that the core themes of Spider-Man seem to be directly opposed to Objectivist philosophy, even when Ditko was the one writing it.

The entire comic, at its core, is about Peter Parker's internal conflict between wanting to do what's beneficial to him vs doing the responsible and altruistic thing, and the comic has pretty much always come down on the side of doing the altruistic thing. It's even central to his origin: When Peter firsts gets radioactive spider blood his first thought is to use his new powers to make money as a wrestler instead of help people, but then that ends in tragedy when a criminal he didn't stop murders Uncle Ben. It feels almost like Ditko's initial years on the comic were him interrogating his Randian ideals through Peter Parker and finding them wanting...Which makes the fact that he doubled down on the objectivist bullshit even harder afterwards...

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

macabresca posted:

Yeah, iirc Hades was pretty chill all things considered, other than this one incident with Persephone. Zeus though? What an rear end in a top hat!

pretty much. Like, all Olympians are kinda pricks in their own ways but I think it's fairly uncontroversial to say Hades is a rather sympathetic figure in a lot of his myths. Betrayed by his brothers out of his birthright, shoved into the underworld to rule over...honestly as a spoopy cave nerd I'm biased but a pretty badass realm imo, but I guess compared to the literal mountain of heaven it's fair to say that sucks. Like I've said in other posts Hades even in the Persephone story is a complete fuckin wife guy, his parting words to her when her mother 'saves' her are almost always shown as 'okay I'm gonna work on making things nicer for you and trying to be a better husband for when you return' which yea in the context of 'he slipped her some pomegranate seeds knowing it'd bind her to return either way' isn't the most wholesome thing but considering his brothers and father he for sure wins the 'best husband' award just by acknowledging that's something he even considers worth doing.

Hades is a really fascinating figure in Greek myths honestly. Like already said he's not so much a death god as a very literal 'underworld' god, his domain is literally the subterranean realm and that just happens to be where souls are sucked down to because the Greeks didn't really 'do' afterlife stuff until very late in their culture. His 'subjects' are just kinda barely sentient shades kept 'alive' by memory, he's not exactly some grand imposing figure ready to rend your soul from your flesh. Things devoted to him and such tend to be almost...kinda divided in tone? Obviously he was a feared figure, nobody WANTED to go to the underworld and he was portrayed as a very stern and strong figure so it's not like you were going to party it up in a cool cave with him, but there's also a very empathetic undertone to a lot of things with him.

Like, there are fertility rites we found where obviously Persephone and her mother are celebrated, especially things like The Anthesphoria where Demeter's return is celebrated, but you often saw Hades being at least acknowledged in them beyond just being the dude who abducted her. It's obviously kinda hard to tell for certain but considering we have people like the Eleans who were said to have openely had temples to Hades and had a local mountain devoted to the Minthe story (which is yet another in the column of 'Persephone wasn't some unwilling waif' considering that story involves her doing divine murder to Minthe after turning her to mint for saying she's 'better' than her in the context of being Hades'...either former lover or concubine depending on your read), and you have things like the Necromanteion in Acheron where Hades and Persephone were both worshipped, it's a not-insane theory to posit that Hades/Demeter/Persephone kinda formed a triad of worship and veneration in a lot of areas.

sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jul 11, 2022

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

nine-gear crow posted:

Considering most media produced both after and before her death would have horrified Ayn Rand, that's not exactly the highest of bars to clear :v:

Poor Ayn Rand. Constantly wandering from place to place, monocle popping at everything.

KingKalamari posted:

And this is why Steve Ditko being a hardcore Randroid seems so weird in comparison to his most popular creation, Spider-Man. I know everybody's seen those panels with early era Peter Parker being an Objectivist poo poo head, or the more recent panel of Spider-Man embarrassedly reflecting on that week in high school when he got into Ayn Rand and thought he was John Galt II, but it's really interesting that the core themes of Spider-Man seem to be directly opposed to Objectivist philosophy, even when Ditko was the one writing it.

The entire comic, at its core, is about Peter Parker's internal conflict between wanting to do what's beneficial to him vs doing the responsible and altruistic thing, and the comic has pretty much always come down on the side of doing the altruistic thing. It's even central to his origin: When Peter firsts gets radioactive spider blood his first thought is to use his new powers to make money as a wrestler instead of help people, but then that ends in tragedy when a criminal he didn't stop murders Uncle Ben. It feels almost like Ditko's initial years on the comic were him interrogating his Randian ideals through Peter Parker and finding them wanting...Which makes the fact that he doubled down on the objectivist bullshit even harder afterwards...

Honestly this is why people underestimate what Stan did for the comic. "Make people like Peter" for a start.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

Mr.Radar posted:

Karen Puzzles provides commentary on the 2022 world jigsaw puzzle championship, highlighting the different competitors and their strategies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6tNjymGm0A

I've never heard of this lady before but this loving rules and now I'm going to consume her entire library

fun hater
May 24, 2009

its a neat trick, but you can only do it once
every time i make an anonymous donation i put my name as the ayn rand foundation for charity

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



And then there's flamboyant gay hades who just wants to take that Chad Hercules down a peg or two

DeafNote
Jun 4, 2014

Only Happy When It Rains
Lindsay had a nice video about the various interpretations of Hades throughout the years
Including the 'slowly wanting to be more like James Woods' Hades from Hercules (the Kevin Sorbo show), and this 'magnificent' specimen from the DC animated universe.

Karloff
Mar 21, 2013

Dawgstar posted:

Honestly this is why people underestimate what Stan did for the comic. "Make people like Peter" for a start.

Yeah, I always imagined that the humanistic moral elements and notions of duty and responsibility were wholly from Stan but it's hard to say for sure. Who knows exactly who did what and whpse ideas were dominant. I have read that Ditko envisaged Norman Osborn (prior to the reveal that he was the Goblin) as a heroic figure and mentor to Peter and it's theorised that making him the Goblin and having a Goblin essentially preach Randian ideals was a deliberate gently caress you to Ditko.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




KingKalamari posted:

And this is why Steve Ditko being a hardcore Randroid seems so weird in comparison to his most popular creation, Spider-Man. I know everybody's seen those panels with early era Peter Parker being an Objectivist poo poo head, or the more recent panel of Spider-Man embarrassedly reflecting on that week in high school when he got into Ayn Rand and thought he was John Galt II, but it's really interesting that the core themes of Spider-Man seem to be directly opposed to Objectivist philosophy, even when Ditko was the one writing it.

The entire comic, at its core, is about Peter Parker's internal conflict between wanting to do what's beneficial to him vs doing the responsible and altruistic thing, and the comic has pretty much always come down on the side of doing the altruistic thing. It's even central to his origin: When Peter firsts gets radioactive spider blood his first thought is to use his new powers to make money as a wrestler instead of help people, but then that ends in tragedy when a criminal he didn't stop murders Uncle Ben. It feels almost like Ditko's initial years on the comic were him interrogating his Randian ideals through Peter Parker and finding them wanting...Which makes the fact that he doubled down on the objectivist bullshit even harder afterwards...

I mean it seems to be par for the course that people fail their stress checks and get a negative Darkest Dungeon affliction every time they try and be introspective like that.

ol yeller
Feb 20, 2015
Level 1 Podcast from DSP. Great stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hlo9R6ntI

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

ol yeller posted:

Level 1 Podcast from DSP. Great stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hlo9R6ntI

Are you DSP?

davidHalestorm
Aug 5, 2009

sexpig by night posted:

I've never heard of this lady before but this loving rules and now I'm going to consume her entire library

It brings me so much joy and satisfaction every time I see talented people doing/competing in relatively obscure and/or unusual hobbies. Competitive puzzling definitely falls under that.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

davidHalestorm posted:

It brings me so much joy and satisfaction every time I see talented people doing/competing in relatively obscure and/or unusual hobbies. Competitive puzzling definitely falls under that.

I'm so 100% about that, this poo poo is the platonic ideal of Youtube and I've spent all day watching this lady so earnestly talk about puzzles.

Anyone got any other good recs for stuff like this? Just any person very unironically and happily talking about super niche hobbies? Put me on fuckin, I dunno, stamp collector youtube or whatever, I need distractions from hellworld.

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020


The Saddest Rhino posted:

And then there's flamboyant gay hades who just wants to take that Chad Hercules down a peg or two

wait, which one is gay hades? (gaydes)

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2xMi7inB28&t=734s

GN did some serious journalism to peel back the shroud of what happened at Artesian Builds and there's no shortage of what looks like outright fraud by the CEO plus a totally hosed up business model in general. He also goes out of his way to not directly say "ponzi scheme" based on the business model that they end up uncovering.

Long story short, the CEO seemed way more focused on chasing streamer/celeb success at the expense of running the company, who by the way was financed initially by his own parents of what was later claimed to be $1.2 million (that number gets connected to part of the potential fraud issues)

pentyne fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 12, 2022

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


I do wonder if the company hadn't imploded they would have gotten into more trouble for those stream giveaway shenanigans. For those who haven't watched the video/didn't hear about it they were doing a PC giveaway and the CEO would decide that the winner wasn't a popular enough streamer and declare a do over. Which is... not how contests work.

Goon Boots
Feb 2, 2020



huh, i never read this one as being gay (flamboyant sure, lol)

but then again i haven't seen hercules in ages, so i might see it differently now

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Goon Boots posted:

huh, i never read this one as being gay (flamboyant sure, lol)

but then again i haven't seen hercules in ages, so i might see it differently now

drat near every Disney Renaissance film villain is immensely queer-coded. The only one who really isn't is Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame, mainly because the whole crux of his character is his blatant heterosexual lust, and even he's still prone to some very femme overacting, especially in the Hellfire sequence.

je1 healthcare
Sep 29, 2015

Karloff posted:

Yeah, I always imagined that the humanistic moral elements and notions of duty and responsibility were wholly from Stan but it's hard to say for sure. Who knows exactly who did what and whpse ideas were dominant. I have read that Ditko envisaged Norman Osborn (prior to the reveal that he was the Goblin) as a heroic figure and mentor to Peter and it's theorised that making him the Goblin and having a Goblin essentially preach Randian ideals was a deliberate gently caress you to Ditko.

From what I recall, Ditko wanted the villains to all be former street thugs, the goblin being Norman Osborn was Stan's idea. Ditko didn't like it, because Norman was a high-rolling businessman and you can't be rich AND an insane psychopath!

Upon leaving, Ditko's main demand was that Peter Parker never be depicted as physically "attractive", he should always be a scrawny nerd. But other artists just went and made him buff and handsome in his 20s and 30s, and it wasn't until recently that I think most people realized that he's less interesting that way

Dikto's worst impulses were filtered by Stan Lee. Eventually he went indie because he no longer wanted to compromise his "vision", and if you're wondering what that vision of morality was, you can check out Mr. A. Which I wouldn't call a good comic but it's certainly interesting, and could have been better if it had an editor to cut down the walls of preachy text. But instead its Rorschach, as written by a guy who thinks Rorschach is super-cool and not a loser fascist

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Put it all together.
Solve the world.
One conversation at a time.



The best queer coded Disney villain example is Ursula of the little mermaid being based on Divine, she of pink flamingos and "my political message is to kill everyone now

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



filth are my politics, filth is my life under the sea (under the sea) darling it's better down where it's wetter

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013

je1 healthcare posted:

From what I recall, Ditko wanted the villains to all be former street thugs, the goblin being Norman Osborn was Stan's idea. Ditko didn't like it, because Norman was a high-rolling businessman and you can't be rich AND an insane psychopath!

Upon leaving, Ditko's main demand was that Peter Parker never be depicted as physically "attractive", he should always be a scrawny nerd. But other artists just went and made him buff and handsome in his 20s and 30s, and it wasn't until recently that I think most people realized that he's less interesting that way

Dikto's worst impulses were filtered by Stan Lee. Eventually he went indie because he no longer wanted to compromise his "vision", and if you're wondering what that vision of morality was, you can check out Mr. A. Which I wouldn't call a good comic but it's certainly interesting, and could have been better if it had an editor to cut down the walls of preachy text. But instead its Rorschach, as written by a guy who thinks Rorschach is super-cool and not a loser fascist

The Green Goblin stuff is a much-repeated comic book myth
https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-400-part-1/

Mr A and Avenging World and other self-published Ditko comics are also way more interesting than whatever Stan Lee had done after 60s

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




nine-gear crow posted:

drat near every Disney Renaissance film villain is immensely queer-coded. The only one who really isn't is Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame, mainly because the whole crux of his character is his blatant heterosexual lust, and even he's still prone to some very femme overacting, especially in the Hellfire sequence.

I dunno, I'm looking at the list and I think it might just be Hades and Scar. But I might just be forgetting more of Pocahontas than I realized, I don't remember Governor Ratcliffe having that energy. I might just need things spoonfed to me because I'm not fully convinced when it comes to Clayton, Gaston, Shan Yu and Jafar.

I googled the movies that fit that timeframe because I've still got a shelf of VHS movies from when I was kid but still have no idea what was made first. I was about to say 'Weird I don't remember Captain Hook being queer-coded at all, he seemed to just be a cartoon of a man.' :v:

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Ursula is very famously based off a real life drag queen.

OSP has a pretty concise video on this that hits most of the points. Though honestly it's a pretty tread-worn topic; there was a time where you couldn't throw a rock without hitting one internet listicle or another about how Disney villains were all secretly gay (not that I'm complaining!)

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




BrianWilly posted:

Ursula is very famously based off a real life drag queen.

OSP has a pretty concise video on this that hits most of the points. Though honestly it's a pretty tread-worn topic; there was a time where you couldn't throw a rock without hitting one internet listicle or another about how Disney villains were all secretly gay (not that I'm complaining!)

I can't go two posts without leaving something obvious out of it TSR already said that and I just completely didn't put Ursula in with Scar and Hades:

The Saddest Rhino posted:

The best queer coded Disney villain example is Ursula of the little mermaid being based on Divine, she of pink flamingos and "my political message is to kill everyone now

Also, Nigel Ng is very funny, I had no idea he stuck with Uncle Roger and himself being totally different characters during his stand-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD_6rZNZo9U

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fez_machine
Nov 27, 2004

fatherboxx posted:

The Green Goblin stuff is a much-repeated comic book myth
https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-legends-revealed-400-part-1/

Mr A and Avenging World and other self-published Ditko comics are also way more interesting than whatever Stan Lee had done after 60s

Late period Ditko (the stuff he was doing in his 80s) owns and everyone should read this incredibly thorough dissection of why it owns and how it relates to his spiderman work
http://comicscomicsmag.com/?p=8320

fez_machine fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jul 12, 2022

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