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A Wizard of Goatse posted:the fuckup is letting a heavily armed death squad infiltrate the neighborhood and then just kinda watching as they set up for a mass killing, not everything that happened once they got all ready and started murdering people, which went about as well as it reasonably could. Yeah the actual solution to this problem is scooping up the mercs when they're split up and not armed, but for various reasons that's impossible.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:29
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Harriet Carker posted:Thought Cabinet question from a newbie - I see there are way more thoughts than possible slots - should I just start forgetting and learning new thoughts as I fill up? There are so many that if I do this it feels like I'll basically never have any skill points to level up my skills. Mostly, only internalize thoughts you want. Forgetting thoughts is possible but not very useful as you well, forget them. There are a couple where you might specifically want to throw out the ideas from your head, mind. Only you can decide if it's worth seeing what a thought's final form is like to see if it's worth internalizing. Though good ones include Jamais Vu, Actual Art Degree, Fifteenth Indo-Tribe. IMO but your mileage may vary. Most thoughts are slightly more valuable than a +1 to a skill, but don't generally help re-open white checks (sometimes they do and add very good bonuses, but usually you'll have a reason to expect it.) You need to internalize a political thought by.. the second night? third night? if you want to do a vision quest. I forget. tl;dr Only learn thoughts you want. Don't forget thoughts unless you have a good reason to. But buying more slots is often worth it.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:43
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Two recent separate discussions in this thread: "how bad a person is Joyce, really?" and "could we have saved more people?" I agree with what MeatwadIsGod said:MeatwadIsGod posted:Nah, having a certain level of inevitable violence baked into the scenario is a strength of the game's writing. The game takes great pains to establish that individual actions and beliefs are, in and of themselves, very limited in how much they affect things. It would be disingenuous to leave the reader/player with a sense that they could have steered events completely away from a violent outcome. The class contradictions in Revachol were deepening for decades, and the spark was lit before we got there. because this understanding of individual limitations is a central theme in DE... but the same language when employed by people in power is also what rationalizes colonialism. Joyce sends in Krenel because she, as an individual, believes that she can't affect things very much, it would be disingenuous to pretend that someone else at Wild Pines wouldn't do something worse if she didn't make the call, and Martinaise is hosed one way or the other, etc etc. Eventually, you talk yourself into the position where hiring a rapist death squad is like, the best choice? What the gently caress? Normal people don't hire rapist death squads. edit: I guess what I'm talking about here is power differentials. "My ability to affect things is ultimately limited" is a healthy and sane response to a situation where you can't control everything. Harry, however, is given some opportunities to have control over others: arresting Klaasje or not, how he breaks the news of the dead guy on the docks to his widow. Harry COULD think "oh, the way I do this doesn't matter, these people are hosed anyways," as both of those situations are secondary/unimportant to his main objectives. From the position of power it "doesn't matter" how those situations turn out, the same way it doesn't matter how many people die in Martinaise. But it's possible to have discretion, to suspend the apparatus of power in order to be humane. Doing that might not matter to Harry but it matters to Klaasje and to the widow and to anyone else that you could conceivably gently caress over during the course of the story. Roctavian fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 16:59
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Roctavian posted:Joyce sends in Krenel because she, as an individual, believes that she can't affect things very much, it would be disingenuous to pretend that someone else at Wild Pines wouldn't do something worse if she didn't make the call, and Martinaise is hosed one way or the other, etc etc. Eventually, you talk yourself into the position where hiring a rapist death squad is like, the best choice? What the gently caress? Normal people don't hire rapist death squads. Noooo, Joyce actually understands she does, she downplays it but she doesn't shy away from her position and class role. It's not explicitly stated how it went down, but putting the pieces together (which is why playing it again can be very fun - other skills can pick up things that were previously missed in failed passive rolls), it's more or less like this: Joyce comes in after the initial negotiations failed - Claire feels bad for having to resort with "gently caress off midget" with the previous negotiator because the guy is too nice - because the board of Wild Pines or another important director hires Krenel without Joyce's consent. Understanding how incredibly loving stupid that was, she decides to personally come in as negotiator in the hopes of also reigning in the mercenaries and have a speedy resolution. Of course, she didn't realize how woefully unprepared she was until the endgame when she realizes that Evrart and the debardeurs outmaneuvered Wild Pines entirely when the mercenary got shot. She doesn't understand that the terminal is undergoing a literal takeover until Harry spells it to her.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:16
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joyce tells you she "didn't think much" of the mercs at the time - her apathy towards them being sent in wasn't based in her larger sense of powerlessness but sheer corporate disinterest. i'm sure that after word of the hanging came back to wild pines she double-checked their file and realized she should have raised some firmer objections during the interview process
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Jul 15, 2022 17:20
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dead gay comedy forums posted:Noooo, Joyce actually understands she does, she downplays it but she doesn't shy away from her position and class role. It's not explicitly stated how it went down, but putting the pieces together (which is why playing it again can be very fun - other skills can pick up things that were previously missed in failed passive rolls), it's more or less like this: Joyce comes in after the initial negotiations failed - Claire feels bad for having to resort with "gently caress off midget" with the previous negotiator because the guy is too nice - because the board of Wild Pines or another important director hires Krenel without Joyce's consent. Understanding how incredibly loving stupid that was, she decides to personally come in as negotiator in the hopes of also reigning in the mercenaries and have a speedy resolution. CLASS RESENTMENT (Normal: Failure) -- There's no difference between any of those rich fucks. Burn them all.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:32
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Oxxidation posted:joyce tells you she "didn't think much" of the mercs at the time - her apathy towards them being sent in wasn't based in her larger sense of powerlessness but sheer corporate disinterest. i'm sure that after word of the hanging came back to wild pines she double-checked their file and realized she should have raised some firmer objections during the interview process ooooh yeah, the "understanding how loving stupid that was" is something that happens in hindsight, true
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Jul 15, 2022 18:11
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Joyce wanted muscle on standby just in case Titus or someone like him decided to negotiate with their knuckles. She did not think far enough ahead to realize that she was effectively throwing a live grenade into a room full of people.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:33
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wiegieman posted:Joyce wanted muscle on standby just in case Titus or someone like him decided to negotiate with their knuckles. She did not think far enough ahead to realize that she was effectively throwing a live grenade into a room full of people. What she didn't realize is they would toss the grenade back.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:59
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Joyce and Edgar are pretty good examples of different approaches to what I'd consider evil. Joyce is pretty nice, well educated, cultured, shockingly patient, seemingly sympathetic. She genuinely does not want a massacre to go down for at least partially human reasons. She wants to de-escalate the situation both to save face but also she pretty genuinely seems horrified at the idea of a massacre. ... She's also part of the body that manages the company that hired these unvetted mercs to break a strike. Wild Pines hired these people. She's the one who played into the Claires' hands by trying to strongarm them and loving it up. You don't hire these guys and this doesn't happen. Meanwhile if you talk to Claire after Joyce leaves he's almost sick with glee about the massacre he knows is coming. That conversation more than anything Drama wants to tell you, confirms that Claire seems to drink his own Kool aid. He hates Joyce and everything she represents so much he's breaking kayfabe and giving easily readable expressions. He also makes it very clear he does not give a single solitary gently caress about the Hardies or anyone else who ends up gunned down in the street. Not even in the "well they'll be martyrs" or "they know what they're doing" way- he's barely thinking about them because to him this is all they're good for. He has his "real" boys anyway. He's a lot more openly monstrous than Joyce in this bubble, even though I still think this falls squarely on Wild Pines for loving up their escalation.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:03
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The Hardie Boys are a volunteer militia. They are soldiers, fully aware of the fact that they might die in a violent conflict. But despite the fact that they are outgunned and under equipped, they are willing to risk their lives fighting against the oppressive impoverishment that Wild Pines has inflicted on them because they really don't have any other choice. If they don't oppose Wild Pines, they might die anyway.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:09
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the hardy boys are only aware of the danger in the most distant, academic sense. even harry's misfiring brain goes "oh my god these idiots are going to get themselves killed" as they're yukking it up amongst each other. they wisen up somewhat before the mercs come knocking, but they have no idea evrart's using them as sacrificial lambs
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Jul 15, 2022 19:11
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Oxxidation posted:the hardy boys are only aware of the danger in the most distant, academic sense. even harry's misfiring brain goes "oh my god these idiots are going to get themselves killed" as they're yukking it up amongst each other. they wisen up somewhat before the mercs come knocking, but they have no idea evrart's using them as sacrificial lambs *sacrificial bees
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Jul 15, 2022 19:16
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They're a bunch of drunks who run off unauthorized drug dealers and remind outside parties that the union is in charge there. Facing down extremely highly armed and armored military personnel with popguns was absolutely the last thing even the Claires expected them to have to do. It's pretty clear Edgar doesn't give a poo poo what happens to them. He all but says it. Titus even knows how hosed they are when the showdown happens- after they all puff themselves up about having weapons to deal with the mercs when you try to warn them in the Whirling that they're gonna get loving wiped. They (well, not Shanky depending) all step up in the end but lol no way did any of them or even their bosses figure this was potentially in the cards before the strike.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:18
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:the fuckup is letting a heavily armed death squad infiltrate the neighborhood and then just kinda watching as they set up for a mass killing, not everything that happened once they got all ready and started murdering people, which went about as well as it reasonably could. Or, you know, wasting the three days you spent on a drinking binge before the game starts. It's Harry's fault but he's still doing the best he possibly can from the moment he wakes up at the start of the game.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:18
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Oxxidation posted:the hardy boys are only aware of the danger in the most distant, academic sense. even harry's misfiring brain goes "oh my god these idiots are going to get themselves killed" as they're yukking it up amongst each other. they wisen up somewhat before the mercs come knocking, but they have no idea evrart's using them as sacrificial lambs They knowingly and intentionally took credit for the murder of a merc. They knew exactly what was going to happen next, everyone did.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:30
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Cpt_Obvious posted:They knowingly and intentionally took credit for the murder of a merc. They knew exactly what was going to happen next, everyone did. they literally didn't. it is repeatedly stated, in the text, that they have no idea how unfit they are to handle the degree of retaliation coming at them. it's one of the central points during their interrogation
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Jul 15, 2022 19:36
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Cpt_Obvious posted:They knowingly and intentionally took credit for the murder of a merc. They knew exactly what was going to happen next, everyone did. Yeah, I got the impression the Hardies knew extreme violence of one kind or another was imminent. Sure, they may have a macho overestimation of their individual likelihood of surviving a lethal encounter, but no more than a soldier who enlists knowing full well he will face combat.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Or, you know, wasting the three days you spent on a drinking binge before the game starts. Although you know what, actually gently caress the rest of his squad too. Ditching Harry is one (absolutely justified thing) but they hosed off from the whole investigation too and since they were hanging around in disguise they absolutely knew what was riding on this. When the tribunal happened, they weren't anywhere to be found.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:43
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Titus is basically like "I'm deleting it, I'm deleting it" when you show up to the tribunal. I forget which skill says it but it says he knows he's facing overwhelmingly superior firepower now that they're standing in front of him. To the point he even hushes Lizzy- who is probably the only person there who has no idea that poo poo is going to go down. No matter what happens- they never fire the first shot. It's either you or the mercs. They do their job when the lead starts flying but they don't exactly do their defenders of the realm poo poo before that point. They appreciate you for it in the best outcomes but they happily let you step between them and handle negotiations despite it being their turf. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 19:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Or, you know, wasting the three days you spent on a drinking binge before the game starts. I honestly don't think that solving the murder earlier would prevent the tribunal. What, Harry shows up with a senile old man claiming he nailed a one in a million shot on a whim and the mercs are supposed to take his word for it? Even his partner is sceptical. A big message of the tribunal is that the mercs have made up their minds to do violence and no amount of words can dissuade them; all HDB can do is delay the inevitable or try to limit the damage by pre-emptively striking. Hell, even before the tribunal starts it's implied the squad has killed at least three people in Martinase Vagabong fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 20:12
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Vagabong posted:I honestly don't think that solving the murder earlier would prevent the tribunal. What, Harry shows up with a senile old man claiming he nailed a one in a million shot on a whim and the mercs are supposed to take his word for it? Even his partner is sceptical. I thought they conveyed the point really well. My first playthrough I had sky-high intellect stats and passed every rhetoric/drama check the tribunal had, hearing each of the internal voices slowly come around to "well, maybe this one time violence is the only option" was well done.
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Jul 15, 2022 20:49
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Vagabong posted:I honestly don't think that solving the murder earlier would prevent the tribunal. What, Harry shows up with a senile old man claiming he nailed a one in a million shot on a whim and the mercs are supposed to take his word for it? Even his partner is sceptical. Solving the murder wouldn't stop the Krenel guys, who don't even really need a rationale to start killing people, but perhaps somebody could have done something to catch them flatfooted if Harry hadn't been too busy doing drugs and navelgazing his way into ego death to tell anyone. Or not, but that things ever progressed to that point is an absolute indictment of the RCM's handling of the situation. Nobody took it seriously until it was too late. Fabricated posted:They're a bunch of drunks who run off unauthorized drug dealers and remind outside parties that the union is in charge there. The Hardies signed up to be expendable muscle, which was a job that really seems to have existed more to keep them out of the way than because the Union really needs someone roughing up petty criminals. When they go pick a fight with the mercs there's really nothing Claire can do about it except try and turn it to the Union's advantage, which he does. IDK how much moral value there'd be to putting on a show of deep concern for those meatheads while doing that, that'd just be more of the same kind of empty posturing we see from the moralist characters. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jul 15, 2022 |
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Jul 15, 2022 21:41
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Doing the Art Cop speedrun is actually insane, I cant tell how many levels I've gotten with this broken Thought
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Jul 15, 2022 23:04
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I don't think I ever found another thought even close to Art Cop in terms of brokenness. I just finished the game and had something like 10 unused skill points. It ends on a very bittersweet note: the deserter is such a depressing person to talk to, to realize it all just kicked off because a dying bitter old man became fixated on a beautiful woman, but then the wonderment of actually meeting the cryptid softens the blow. The conversation with your partner is funny enough though, and Kim swelling with pride at how good a detective I was despite being a drug addicted apocalyptic communist was genuinely heartwarming, see especially when he really considered the offer to join the 41st. I do wish there was more to do after the shooting; some way to have a few more long conversations with Joyce and Evrart, but logically it makes sense everyone would get the gently caress out of dodge after that. And gently caress me, I never found the helmet.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:50
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Wolfsheim posted:And gently caress me, I never found the helmet. it's on the island near the phasmid also did you take the opportunity to sleep on the island at all?
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Jul 16, 2022 02:10
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:it's on the island near the phasmid I looked it up, and it was a bug! I couldn't actually interact with the nest until leaving the area and coming back. Only two bugs playing on PS5, which is pretty good considering how dire the console ports apparently were on release. I did sleep on the island, and got the scene with Doloros Dei as Harry's ex-girlfriend. It's one of those revelations that makes perfect sense, but it's such a big scene that I almost prefer the kind of brief flash of sadness of discussing it with Harry's partner on the pier. I dunno.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:21
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Wolfsheim posted:I don't think I ever found another thought even close to Art Cop in terms of brokenness. I just finished the game and had something like 10 unused skill points. Encyclopedia with wompty domty dom is close. You can build for both fairly easily in the same run.
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Jul 16, 2022 02:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Encyclopedia with wompty domty dom is close. You can build for both fairly easily in the same run. Those two thoughts alone make at least moderate INT skill investment worth it, from a purely gameplay perspective. I didn't sleep on the island until my third or fourth plathrough. Was amazed how much the game still had to show me.
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Jul 16, 2022 03:58
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:The Hardies signed up to be expendable muscle, which was a job that really seems to have existed more to keep them out of the way than because the Union really needs someone roughing up petty criminals. When they go pick a fight with the mercs there's really nothing Claire can do about it except try and turn it to the Union's advantage, which he does. IDK how much moral value there'd be to putting on a show of deep concern for those meatheads while doing that, that'd just be more of the same kind of empty posturing we see from the moralist characters. The Hardies are muscle for Ruby, who runs the drug trade in Terminal B. I don't think Harry ever explicitly calls them out on this other than to get the truth out of Titus because after you confront Ruby events pick up pace to the Tribunal, but the reality is they are a drug running gang and the reason they are spending all day chilling out in the cafe when the player encounters them is because with Ruby gone they have no idea what the gently caress to do. They aren't a militia at all, they're just a criminal gang that Evrart has an understanding with.
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Jul 16, 2022 21:03
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I loving did it, I'm in the big leagues now 
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Jul 16, 2022 21:26
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Looks like you need 0.01 more real in cash.
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Jul 16, 2022 21:29
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Desdinova posted:Yeah, it's Reddit, didn't see this posted a while ago, was expecting someone else to post it: i read further down in this thread and it looks like the case was cut because it was pretty close to a wholesale copy of a Russian film from 2014 in case anyone wants to sample the source material: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvclawEbu7s
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Jul 16, 2022 23:30
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Alchenar posted:The Hardies are muscle for Ruby, who runs the drug trade in Terminal B. I don't think Harry ever explicitly calls them out on this other than to get the truth out of Titus because after you confront Ruby events pick up pace to the Tribunal, but the reality is they are a drug running gang and the reason they are spending all day chilling out in the cafe when the player encounters them is because with Ruby gone they have no idea what the gently caress to do. They aren't a militia at all, they're just a criminal gang that Evrart has an understanding with. They're the union enforcer crew whose main thinker also happens to be a drug runner. Evrart knows, and Titus probably sort of knows but doesn't care to know more. If you're wondering why the cops haven't arrested Titus yet, well, he's the cops. That's Martinaise.
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Jul 17, 2022 04:17
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https://twitter.com/yurirando/status/1548538591009071105 you have to trust me kim, 1000 times folded steel is the only tool fit for cutting this body down
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Jul 17, 2022 16:25
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Harry is either far too racist to buy a katana, or would consider it cultural appropriation to buy a katana
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Jul 17, 2022 16:46
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Countblanc posted:Harry is either far too racist to buy a katana, or would consider it cultural appropriation to buy a katana ELECTROCHEMISTRY: You're the Love Samurai, daddy-o. Take that big rod of folded steel in those meaty hands of yours and spill some fluids
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Jul 17, 2022 16:54
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Jul 17, 2022 17:19
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I was looking at achievements after beating the game and had no idea you could gently caress up badly enough to recruit Cuno to your precinct. Feels like that might go well with an aggressive Half Light run....
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Jul 17, 2022 18:28
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midnight lasagna posted:https://twitter.com/yurirando/status/1548538591009071105 The gently caress is a scrumblo
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