(Thread IKs:
bunnyofdoom)
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I can’t believe this is a 2 page meat/no meat derail and NO ONE is even talking about The Keg…
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Jul 18, 2022 18:31
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redbrouw posted:Fights like this are pretty much just complete deadlock, which is why people enjoy them. Argument as entertainment. Let them smoke weed, on page 420. Randalor posted:Just because I like meat doesn't mean I want the animal to suffer. The act of eating meat brings suffering so the choice is yours. If you're comfortable with the suffering that's on you.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:31
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apatheticman posted:You are providing a highly curated very selective look at the process for your own ethical gains. You are essentially using the exact same playbook as anti-abortion activists and are getting the exact same type of pushback. Yes it has worked. I have convinced a few people in real life to go vegan and a larger number online to at least try changing their diet. "For your own ethical gains" is a funny way to put it. I'm not in a slaughter house and I'm not getting paid by PETA or "Big Kale". You disagree that chickens suffer in the process and I tried showing footage and a paper that implies they do in fact suffer. You call it carefully curated but part of the reason I don't have more footage or a live slaughter-cam to show you is the same reason the conversation started in the first place. People get fines and jail time trying to show people what happens. If you don't agree with my method I'm open to suggestions but I'd want it to come from someone who could convince themselves first. ARACHTION posted:I can’t believe this is a 2 page meat/no meat derail and NO ONE is even talking about The Keg…
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Jul 18, 2022 18:32
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ARACHTION posted:I can’t believe this is a 2 page meat/no meat derail and NO ONE is even talking about The Keg… I just got a $100 gift card to the Keg too. They don't do SkiptheDishes though and I have no intention of going there so dunno what I'm going to do with it
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Jul 18, 2022 18:32
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PT6A posted:I mean sure the two particular vegans in this thread (and I should stress this is not representative of all vegans, nor intended to be, I'd just like to make that point) are absolutely deranged and everyone is calling them out, but it's really my fault for having object permanence and remembering the last X times we've had this discussion and jumping straight to "they're insane." We gonna have another melt down? Who TF are you calling deranged?
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Jul 18, 2022 18:32
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Stanley Pain posted:We gonna have another melt down? Who TF are you calling deranged? You and DrBox, sorry if that wasn't clear. I expected you to understand it from context. Perhaps that was an unreasonable expectation, given the aforementioned derangement.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:34
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DaysBefore posted:I just got a $100 gift card to the Keg too. They don't do SkiptheDishes though and I have no intention of going there so dunno what I'm going to do with it Donate it to a nonprofit to use as a fundraiser/auction item? I got nothin' else
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Jul 18, 2022 18:40
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PT6A posted:I mean sure the two particular vegans in this thread (and I should stress this is not representative of all vegans, nor intended to be, I'd just like to make that point) are absolutely deranged and everyone is calling them out, but it's really my fault for having object permanence and remembering the last X times we've had this discussion and jumping straight to "they're insane." PT6A posted:You and DrBox, sorry if that wasn't clear. I expected you to understand it from context. Do you honestly consider the position of "Avoid harming or exploiting animals where it's possible and practical to do so" to be a deranged insane perspective? Are you always so hostile when your world view is challenged? Oppression is bad even to animals. It's baffling to me how much people push back on that idea.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:40
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Mr. Mercury posted:Donate it to a nonprofit to use as a fundraiser/auction item? Oh drat good idea. Now to see if there's anyone desperate enough to take a Keg giftcard.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:41
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DrBox posted:Yes it has worked. I have convinced a few people in real life to go vegan and a larger number online to at least try changing their diet. The whole point of what I was trying to say is when your method doesn't work pivot to a new method don't barrel down the moral suffering lane, you shut down people by continuing to present arguments that infer moral judgement if you disagree, or just have already internalized that info. I eat around 1/8th the meat I did 10 years ago, environmental impact and just monetary savings is what "won me over", also finding a bunch of dishes where meat wasn't even "missing". PT6A posted:You and DrBox, sorry if that wasn't clear. I expected you to understand it from context. Quit doing this DaysBefore posted:I just got a $100 gift card to the Keg too. They don't do SkiptheDishes though and I have no intention of going there so dunno what I'm going to do with it Mall drinks
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Jul 18, 2022 18:43
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DaysBefore posted:Oh drat good idea. Now to see if there's anyone desperate enough to take a Keg giftcard. I'm not a charity but I would be desperate enough.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:47
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apatheticman posted:The whole point of what I was trying to say is when your method doesn't work pivot to a new method don't barrel down the moral suffering lane, you shut down people by continuing to present arguments that infer moral judgement if you disagree, or just have already internalized that info. Also I think I've done a pretty mix of logical arguments and appeals to empathy here but I'm open to more suggestions.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:48
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DrBox posted:That's good you're reducing for environmental or cost reasons but doesn't that just means as soon as they can slap a carbon capture facemask on a cow (a real plan by the way) and those cows become carbon neutral you're right back to it? Yeah man, negating my reasons for reducing my meat diet is really a sure way to win yourself over to the crowd. Keep it up, you're doing great. Anyways Im done. If it wasn't veganism im sure you'd be an rear end about something else.
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Jul 18, 2022 18:54
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Stanley Pain posted:The act of eating meat brings suffering so the choice is yours. If you're comfortable with the suffering that's on you. Then I guess I'm just a monster. At least I'm honest about animals dying for my "beliefs".
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Jul 18, 2022 18:55
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Randalor posted:Then I guess I'm just a monster. At least I'm honest about animals dying for my "beliefs". I mean you're a human being, so that's as monstrous as it gets imho
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Jul 18, 2022 18:58
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apatheticman posted:Yeah man, negating my reasons for reducing my meat diet is really a sure way to win yourself over to the crowd. You take this too personally. If you tell me you reduced your consumption of animals because of cost and environmental concerns the obvious question after we were arguing the morality would be to ask of your consumption would go back up if those factors were mitigated. Rage Against the Machine did a cool thing this weekend. Make sure to write them a stern email about how they are doing it wrong and they're just making all these young concert goers feel bad! https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/rage-against-the-machine-calls-for-indigenous-land-back-at-canadian-show-1.5991091
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Jul 18, 2022 19:19
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DrBox posted:That's good you're reducing for environmental or cost reasons but doesn't that just means as soon as they can slap a carbon capture facemask on a cow (a real plan by the way) and those cows become carbon neutral you're right back to it? I hate to say it, but PT6A is right. I mean, look at this poo poo. apatheticman says they reduced the meat in their diet by 90%, and rather than trying to encourage them to make that final step, DrBox attacks them for their reason not being "pure" enough.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:21
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Stanley Pain posted:The act of eating meat brings suffering so the choice is yours. If you're comfortable with the suffering that's on you. No ethical consumption under capitalism. Almost every thing you consume and use involves suffering. Not saying it's a hand-wave excuse to not reduce suffering where we can, but people will bristle when you guilt them for not making bigger sacrifices.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:28
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Randalor posted:I hate to say it, but PT6A is right. I mean, look at this poo poo. apatheticman says they reduced the meat in their diet by 90%, and rather than trying to encourage them to make that final step, DrBox attacks them for their reason not being "pure" enough. I stopped kicking my dog 6 days a week. That's an 86% reduction! I'll pause here and wait for the encouraging comments to roll in. Oh please. He's gone from "Don't treat this thread like babies" to "The vegan was mean to me" If someone threatens to eat an extra burger to spite me I'll fill the bingo card. In other news: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/court-approves-catholic-church-sales-1.6523788 It would be pretty sweet to live in a big old church.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:33
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In this and the previous meat discussion itt, I've seen almost nothing overly incendiary from the vegans, and when it happens it's in response to oversensitive folks who start screeching about veganazi strawmen when someone so much as mentions they had a salad for lunch. I eat meat but the more I am presented with the reality of how much the animals suffer, the more I continue to reduce my meat consumption and find alternatives. I recognize that there are socio-economic barriers for some people to stop/reduce meat consumption. I've said it before but I really do think the knee jerk reaction some meat eaters have to vegetarians is a projection of their own cognitive dissonance and self-loathing or inability for any kind of self-criticism. I think it would actually bring them some peace of mind if they were able to admit this to themselves. It's healthy to feel a little bad when you're doing something that goes against your own morals, instead of shoving it to the back of your mind and lashing out when reality brings it back to the forefront. I love animals but I'm doing something that causes them suffering, and in my case it is purely selfish. That makes me feel bad about myself and that's a good thing, because it's incentive to do better. It's not that big a deal, I'm not beating myself up about it, nor is anyone else.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:41
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DrBox posted:I stopped kicking my dog 6 days a week. That's an 86% reduction! I'll pause here and wait for the encouraging comments to roll in. Wow, I found every ndp meeting I've ever been to, right here in one post. Why do people enjoy sabotaging their own cause?
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Jul 18, 2022 19:43
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DrBox posted:You take this too personally. If you tell me you reduced your consumption of animals because of cost and environmental concerns the obvious question after we were arguing the morality would be to ask of your consumption would go back up if those factors were mitigated. DrBox posted:I stopped kicking my dog 6 days a week. That's an 86% reduction! I'll pause here and wait for the encouraging comments to roll in. This sequence happens every time. You claim whoever you're making GBS threads on now is taking things too personally. But this topic gets you toxic, and you can't help calling that person something horrible. This time comparing him to a dog beater, without him actually posting after your claim he's taking it too personally. All these people who feel attacked by you are not wrong.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:43
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redbrouw posted:Wow, I found every ndp meeting I've ever been to, right here in one post. Maneck posted:All these people who feel attacked by you are not wrong. Maybe this time you're right. This was a thread full of people about to go vegan and I ruined it. They were reaching for the oat milk when they checked Something Awful and were forced to grab the dairy instead. I'll take a break before I cause another contentious soul to swerve into a KFC out of hatred for me.
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Jul 18, 2022 19:50
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everyone needs to just chill the gently caress out, whip up a batch of these https://www.seriouseats.com/the-best-black-bean-burger-recipe and move on
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Jul 18, 2022 19:52
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DrBox posted:Maybe this time you're right. This was a thread full of people about to go vegan and I ruined it. They were reaching for the oat milk when they checked Something Awful and were forced to grab the dairy instead. I'll take a break before I cause another contentious soul to swerve into a KFC out of hatred for me. First you predict somebody is going to say they'll eat more meat to offset your presumed veganism, and then you post this as if it actually happened. It's clear you've got some vegan PTSD.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:02
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Every single one of us is a monstrous post-driven goblin. I think it's good to note that we should be looking to lessen our way-too-severe impact on other beings and how, but also that there's a huge constellation of human needs and they often lead to us making gross choices. Life is messy. We suck to each other and other species. It's good to aim for better but the instant you turn the discussion into a scrap people tend to just dig in and not move either way all the while trading barbs. These conversations are worthwhile, but I think this one's outlived its usefulness for a minute  To change gears, how's the premiers v feds going on the healthcare payouts? I'm getting worried about the healthcare system a bit but as a new Canadian I'm unsure of how concerned I should be.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:20
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Randalor posted:Then I guess I'm just a monster. At least I'm honest about animals dying for my "beliefs". Yeah, it's up to the individual to choose what's right for them  .Oxyclean posted:No ethical consumption under capitalism. Almost every thing you consume and use involves suffering. Yup, it's a choose your own adventure kinda thing  .Randalor posted:I hate to say it, but PT6A is right. I mean, look at this poo poo. apatheticman says they reduced the meat in their diet by 90%, and rather than trying to encourage them to make that final step, DrBox attacks them for their reason not being "pure" enough. It's the thing I hate about some Vegans and why I don't really associate with a lot of "hardcore" vegans I used to. Very unchill people. Toronto Vegans are the worst I think. Lots of self sabotage too just like the NDP. Kinda funny actually.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:22
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Mr. Mercury posted:To change gears, how's the premiers v feds going on the healthcare payouts? I'm getting worried about the healthcare system a bit but as a new Canadian I'm unsure of how concerned I should be. best advice I can give right now is get any surgery done if you can now and don't get sick after 2024
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Jul 18, 2022 20:23
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redbrouw posted:First you predict somebody is going to say they'll eat more meat to offset your presumed veganism, and then you post this as if it actually happened. It's clear you've got some vegan PTSD. There were at least a couple of people who pulled the ol "guess I'll have a big old steak tonight  " during the previous meat discussion, they aren't making that up.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:23
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DrBox posted:Maybe this time you're right. This was a thread full of people about to go vegan and I ruined it. They were reaching for the oat milk when they checked Something Awful and were forced to grab the dairy instead. I'll take a break before I cause another contentious soul to swerve into a KFC out of hatred for me. Just chill. Smoke a bit of weed or something. It's all good. You made some good points earlier, it's all good .
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Jul 18, 2022 20:24
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run on sentience posted:There were at least a couple of people who pulled the ol "guess I'll have a big old steak tonight putting double honey in my tea tonight boys
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Jul 18, 2022 20:25
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run on sentience posted:There were at least a couple of people who pulled the ol "guess I'll have a big old steak tonight It's really a big running joke amongst vegetarian communities. Someone always comes into a thread or something saying exactly that, or BACON!
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Jul 18, 2022 20:25
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Slotducks posted:best advice I can give right now is get any surgery done if you can now and don't get sick after 2024 that sounds... not great. Is there really no cause for optimism here?
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Jul 18, 2022 20:28
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Stanley Pain posted:Just chill. Smoke a bit of weed or something. It's all good. You made some good points earlier, it's all good  For the record, I don't think PT6A deserved a probation. That's just how he is.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:30
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Sorry for accidentally kicking off a combative argument, everyone. I appreciate the effort posts amidst the insults. Wish I could convince my parents to reduce their meat and dairy intake for health reasons they absolutely do not want to hear so I like seeing other arguments for it.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:30
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Mr. Mercury posted:that sounds... not great. Is there really no cause for optimism here? Conservative premiers aren't coming to the table with a good faith negotiating position, they want more money and the ability to privatize.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:31
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Slotducks posted:everyone needs to just chill the gently caress out, whip up a batch of these https://www.seriouseats.com/the-best-black-bean-burger-recipe and move on I've seen this posted a few times, and while it doesn't have meat, it does use eggs and cheese. This other recipe is even easier and more fun to riff on (I use chickpea flour and Indian spices; the animal product is in the easily discarded condiment). https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/healthyish-lentil-burgers As someone who used to eat meat multiple times a day, I found my transition to vegetarianism and veganism gradual over a couple years as I got more comfortable cooking in other ways, and accepted the ethical elimination argument over the environmental reduction. Given all the awfulness in the world, it can seem overwhelming to focus on this one thing to completely reorient your life, but it becomes easier until you realize hey it's actually pretty easy to not cause harm to other beings as your lifestyle shifts. It becomes an active choice to eat animal products rather than the other way round. I don't know anyone who went vegan right away, and for those who are cutting back, ask yourself what's stopping you from going all the way. For me it was social situations and friends and they've become more open to options and me, as veganism becomes more mainstream. Weirdly, I found arguments like DrBox's annoying when I started, since I saw animal suffering as a lesser global injustice, but they helped push me the last little bit when I was on the way. That and my lactose intolerant friends.
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Jul 18, 2022 20:37
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Sooo what happens after 2024 if you don't mind my incessant questions? Is that it for the system or is there a federal intervention that can/may be used to stopgap things a bit? e. Just saw that BC at least ruled against private care due to wait times Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jul 18, 2022 |
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Jul 18, 2022 20:40
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Stanley Pain posted:The act of eating meat brings suffering so the choice is yours. If you're comfortable with the suffering that's on you. The act of eating meat, or the act of commercially raising meat?
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Jul 18, 2022 20:46
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100+ new posts in a day, I assume someone farmed and ate Justin Trudeau
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Jul 18, 2022 20:48
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