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Defiance Industries posted:Someone asked that at the grinder I was at last month and Randall's answer is "they are not for sale and never will be." The ones they have left are for giving away at events. That's bizarre that they will never be for sale, even in a lance pack would make people happy.
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Jul 21, 2022 20:31
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They were one of very, very few things marked kickstarter exclusive and I'm not surprised that's the (unofficial) line. I also wish the dumb meme 'Mech would disappear forever but I get I'm in the minority on that one.
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Jul 21, 2022 20:38
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You could always buy a metal one if you want it.
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Jul 21, 2022 20:47
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EverettLO posted:I appreciate the offer but I have managed to find s those two and Empire Alone. The ones that are gone forever are the SLDF book, the ones on the first two succession wars, the reaving and the Kurita or merc manual. Their scarcity is very interesting to me. I'm trying to flesh out a physical library too. I'm not sure which ones you're after specifically, but new versions of the CM: Mercs and Kurita books are on the horizon: https://bg.battletech.com/news/restocks-of-core-products-major-update-of-coming-releases/ ("Force Manuals" section) Catalyst isn't GW "sold out in 4 minutes" hardcover fiction bad, but you want to stay on top of release notifications as reprints aren't guaranteed. Comstar posted:Why does Catalyst not want to take my money? I ordered the Battletech: A Game of Too Many Words of What Book I should Buy Combat, from Amazon, and the next thing I get is an email saying thank you for returning it, your refund will be coming soon. I never got it. If you're a US customer, Barnes and Noble has the Beginner and GOAC boxes at MSRP pretty much consistently. Works with the 20% educator discount too! I asked Catalyst when the next lance pack restock is, and was told August. Restocks are coming.
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Jul 21, 2022 20:50
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I got an Urbie at Gencon last year. That might have been the last of their stock.
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Jul 21, 2022 21:17
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Strobe posted:They were one of very, very few things marked kickstarter exclusive and I'm not surprised that's the (unofficial) line. I picked up the ones I did on the kickstarter thinking I'd give them away to someone as a joke since I never voluntarily use an Urbanmech in any form of Battletech. Knowing they're "rare" I'll probably hold on to them now.
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Jul 21, 2022 21:22
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EverettLO posted:I'm not trying to suggest their cover price is too high, they seem very normal. I'm more baffled by the fact that almost everything they've made that's older than a couple of years is incredibly hard to find and expensive on the secondary market. Like, even moreso than 20 to 30 year old FASA books. The run of books from about 2010 to 2018 were produced in very low quantities as CGL was suffering from difficulties following the 2010 financial shenanigans that happened at the company, combined with a general low interest in BT. The boom produced by the kickstarter can't be overstated: that you're seeing non-TRO, non-rulebook volumes (like Tukayyid, IlClan) being reprinted is something that hasn't occurred in decades. So if you want late Jihad and early 3150 stuff, you're going to be in for a hard time. The good news for those books is that they're at least recent, being produced with modern software and presumably with the build files still laying around, so they're the most likely to be targeted for PoD (something Catalyst is slowly but surely working towards; I just worked on a couple of books from this period earlier in the month). But that's a slow process that kind of happens as staff resources warrant.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:20
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Dr. Lunchables posted:I got an Urbie at Gencon last year. That might have been the last of their stock. Randall brought a box of them to the grinder in Seattle last month.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:57
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Floppychop posted:I picked up the ones I did on the kickstarter thinking I'd give them away to someone as a joke since I never voluntarily use an Urbanmech in any form of Battletech. You're missing out, the UM-AIV (Arrow IV with two tons of ammo) is one of the best deals per BV you can put on the table, assuming you give it two tons of homing rounds and have some buddies with TAG to help it out. Every game I've taken at least one or seen someone take one in, it was the top damage dealer on the team.
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Jul 21, 2022 23:58
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Why not just use field artillery? It's even cheaper.
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Jul 22, 2022 01:09
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Defiance Industries posted:Why not just use field artillery? It's even cheaper. They only get 5 shots, don't they? There are also no official sheets for them and some people are touchy about custom units. They're also not 'mechs and some people are touchy about non-'mechs, though there's less of a chance of that if they're letting you use artillery. Also they're not the best UrbanMech edit: Yeah, one ton of ammo per weapon (one weapon in a standard IS platoon) and they manage to be even slower and less maneuverable than an UrbanMech, having only 1 MP and needing to spend that one MP to turn the weapon one face. And less useful when the ammo runs out because the UrbanMech at least jumps 2 and has an ER medium laser. Like you get five more missiles for the same BV just about if you buy three Arrow IV rifle platoons but then you have to start arguing with your opponent over unit numbers while most people would be like "haha sure bring an UrbanMech if you want" edit 2: Seriously why not take an UrbanMech when there's actually a competitively viable one BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 01:19
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BattleMaster posted:They only get 5 shots, don't they? There are also no official sheets for them and some people are touchy about custom units. There is an official sheet for a towed Arrow IV with 30 shots in TRO: 3150. quote:They're also not 'mechs and some people are touchy about non-'mechs, though there's less of a chance of that if they're letting you use artillery. I'd start playing Clan before I let people who have problems with tanks at my table. quote:edit 2: Seriously why not take an UrbanMech when there's actually a competitively viable one I got tired of that joke back when all the New Years glasses had zeros for eyes.
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Jul 22, 2022 02:23
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I saw a preview image for the Alpha Strike box. Do we have a breakdown of the mechs in it?
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Jul 22, 2022 02:31
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Defiance Industries posted:There is an official sheet for a towed Arrow IV with 30 shots in TRO: 3150. Oh I thought you meant infantry field artillery. You are talking about the Arrow IV trailer which is closer to the Urbanmech in BV and immobile without a vehicle to tow it. I like non-mech units but I'll pass on that one
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Jul 22, 2022 02:42
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And the UrbanMech isn't a joke to me, I think it's thematically really neat that there are 'mechs in the game that are designed for militias and garrisons to use against armored threats that aren't worth calling in the real military or mercenaries to deal with. The UrbanMech was the first but there are a lot of other cool militiamechs available now. It's just that the UM-AIV is uncommonly effective by those standards and is a fun way to get artillery on the field. And I have a kitbashed mini for it so why not.
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Jul 22, 2022 02:51
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BattleMaster posted:Oh I thought you meant infantry field artillery. You are talking about the Arrow IV trailer which is closer to the Urbanmech in BV and immobile without a vehicle to tow it. I would generally use field guns. If someone tried to rules lawyer that field gun infantry don't have individual sheets for every weapon in the game, I'd use the towed gun (which is still 75% the cost of an Urbanmech). BattleMaster posted:And the UrbanMech isn't a joke to me, I think it's thematically really neat that there are 'mechs in the game that are designed for militias and garrisons to use against armored threats that aren't worth calling in the real military or mercenaries to deal with. The UrbanMech was the first but there are a lot of other cool militiamechs available now. It's just that the UM-AIV is uncommonly effective by those standards and is a fun way to get artillery on the field. And I have a kitbashed mini for it so why not. I'm sorry that something you like became the wacky monkey cheese meme unit then, but I hate it.
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Jul 22, 2022 03:12
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Defiance Industries posted:I'd start playing Clan before I let people who have problems with tanks at my table. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why do people hate Clan mechs so much?
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Jul 22, 2022 03:20
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Floppychop posted:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why do people hate Clan mechs so much? Grognards. (Really though, Clan stuff imbalanced a ton of things via their introduction, and introduced a power-creep to the game that didn't exist before.) But still, Grognards. I'm looking at you, entire Battletech thread.
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Jul 22, 2022 03:43
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I just want to like the speedy dudes what can't survive long 
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Jul 22, 2022 03:44
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I just want to like the speedy dudes what can't survive long This man fields the Flea! and he shoots Atlases in the back with it! what a clown man
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Jul 22, 2022 03:45
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Dr. Lunchables posted:Grognards. But that was decades ago at this point, and if you play using BV it's a moot point since someone taking Clan mechs will be outnumbered. edit: Holy gently caress, clans were introduced in 1990. They've been part of the game for as long as I've been alive. I got into the universe as a kid with Mechwarrior 2, so clan mechs have always been cool to me. Floppychop fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 03:56
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Floppychop posted:Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why do people hate Clan mechs so much? The fundamental design paradigm of Clan equipment was to eliminate weaknesses in preexisting equipment, rather than enhancing strengths. Everything is just kind of good at everything and it's very boring to me.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:06
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Dr. Lunchables posted:This man fields the Flea! and he shoots Atlases in the back with it! what a clown man Locust and its DFA all day every day!
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Jul 22, 2022 04:09
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I managed to avoid most of the memes, so I just like the Urbanmech for what it is - an autocannon with legs. I’m happy to have gotten one with my Clan Invasion box, but one is probably enough as much as I love light mechs.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:16
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I have a pet theory (that I've maybe posted here before?) that all the new clan weapons since 1990 like heavy lasers, ATMs and HAGs are purposefully more niche and suboptimal than the original Clantech so that the Clans can gradually start 'upgrading' to the new kit and therefore walk back the power creep a bit.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:47
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General Battuta posted:I have a pet theory (that I've maybe posted here before?) that all the new clan weapons since 1990 like heavy lasers, ATMs and HAGs are purposefully more niche and suboptimal than the original Clantech so that the Clans can gradually start 'upgrading' to the new kit and therefore walk back the power creep a bit. That's absolutely the case. I'd be willing to bet CGL would love to redesign the _____ but better clan stuff as well, but that cat is way out of the bag.
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Jul 22, 2022 04:54
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Floppychop posted:edit: Holy gently caress, clans were introduced in 1990. They've been part of the game for as long as I've been alive. I got into the universe as a kid with Mechwarrior 2, so clan mechs have always been cool to me. Back in the ‘90s there were no points- only way you balanced anything was tonnage. Try doing equal tonnage Clans vs IS and play IS and see how much you like it. Yes I’m still bitter.
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Jul 22, 2022 06:01
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General Battuta posted:I have a pet theory (that I've maybe posted here before?) that all the new clan weapons since 1990 like heavy lasers, ATMs and HAGs are purposefully more niche and suboptimal than the original Clantech so that the Clans can gradually start 'upgrading' to the new kit and therefore walk back the power creep a bit. I would say that they're all suboptimal because trying to design a weapon that's better than the 3050 gear requires making gear on the level of the iATM. Just absolute broken horseshit. What's a better version of the cERML look like? Probably a 1-ton PPC with no minimum range and less heat.
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Jul 22, 2022 07:41
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I would not describe ATMs as more niche, since they poo poo out absolutely disgusting amounts of damage when used well. Heavy Lasers absolutely, though the improved ones are similarly very, very good in the right hands. HAGs are weird and much less good than the other two for reasons that mostly come down to having the flexibility of a 1/4" steel rod and a tendency to have to remove the weapons that work well with them due to weight and crits.
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Jul 22, 2022 08:10
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Comstar posted:Back in the ‘90s there were no points- only way you balanced anything was tonnage. Try doing equal tonnage Clans vs IS and play IS and see how much you like it. Now you know how the inner sphere felt when the clans invaded; it's interactive storytelling!
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Jul 22, 2022 08:51
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BattleTech fiction started in 1986, but didn't really take off until 1988-1989 with the Clans coming in 1990. The Clans were always a part of the plan. The "golden age" of 3025 BattleTech lasted ~4 years. Could the game use a balance overhaul or even a full fiction reboot? Oh god, yes to both. Are the Clans inherently bad for the game or a bad idea? No, I don't think so. The Clans were an early attempt to make the game asymmetric. It failed, but it was an interesting experiment. Unfortunately, BattleTech was just never really designed with game balance in mind and asymmetric gameplay demands really tight game balance. Imagine this scenario: the original developers had a little more time to think about the Clan ritualized dueling society. They realize the Clans should probably favor close-range, hard-hitting weapons (and even melee!) and since 'maneuvering' is cowardly, the Clans shouldn't really have any weapons that give a ToHit bonus. Because their society favors standing there and taking it, the Clans as a whole favor larger 'Mechs with more "bang" for their proverbial buck and eventually just stop fielding anything that weighs less than 50 tons. Because of their emphasis on extreme Zeta Battalion-esque firepower, they absolutely demolish IS heavy and assault 'Mechs... but have a hard time dealing with the Inner Sphere's nimble and maneuverable lights and scout mediums. So the Clan vs. IS game essentially turns into a 5v12, where the Clans have firepower and armor and the Inner Sphere has numbers and speed. This turns Clan vs. IS fights into scenarios where the Clans' hard-hitting but inaccurate weapons miss the IS units more often than not but probably blow them away in 1-2 hits if they do land; while the IS steadily whittles down the Clans' slow, heavily armored, easy-to-hit dueling robots using speed, range, and cover. The Inner Sphere still needs heavy and assault 'Mechs for fights against each other; but suddenly those 20-35 tonners are valuable as more than just "scouts" because they're the only things the Clans have trouble dealing with. Then the Inner Sphere starts trading armor for speed and guns (since a single hit will paste a fast light and it only takes a couple of hits to knock out a fast medium) and you've got yourself an asymmetric game. That also creates a fun scenario where Phelan Kell's Wolfhound IIC is an absolute monster that other Clan 'Mechs just can't deal with (but that the Inner Sphere can handle comparatively easily). Edit: And an equally fun scenario where a bunch of snooty noble assault 'Mech drivers get killed during the Clan Invasion until the Inner Sphere figures out they can't just engage the Clans in noble 1 on 1 duels. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 12:59
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I support anything that means putting lots of Locusts in my lists is a good idea
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Jul 22, 2022 13:06
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That scenario is pretty much "what if Locusts were the optimal choice?"
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Jul 22, 2022 13:13
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Has the game changed in any way to actually make any point to bringing a light fast mech or a mech that's not at the old optimal weight of 5 tons below the next weight class? For that matter, I haven't played tabletop since 1996 or so. I have read that a lot hasn't actually changed. What has for the normal game of armored combat? (Gave up trying to get it from Amazon. Changing target to close range and go to MilSims tomorrow). Comstar fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 13:14
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Only in Alpha Strike. In Alpha Strike, 'Mechs generate their maximum TMM regardless of how far they actually move. It makes things that can reliably get a +4 TMM surprisingly tanky. Comstar posted:I have read that a lot hasn't actually changed. What has for the normal game of armored combat? The biggest changes are: - The front firing arc now starts from inside the 'Mech rather than the hex in front of the 'Mech, so it's now the widest arc. The side arm arcs are now the narrowest - infantry (and helicoptor rotor blades) no longer take full damage from weapons which makes them harder to eliminate without using actual anti-infantry weapons (or FLAK). Edit: Infantry is still allergic to fire. - vehicles have had their critical hit tables made significantly less lethal so fielding them is actually viable. Edit: Vehicles are still allergic to fire. - You can no longer put quarter-tons of armor on 'Mechs so a few designs have been slightly de-optimized, but the number of 'Mechs that were exploiting this was already quite low PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 13:17
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I could get behind that. My absolute favorite mech on the tabletop right now is the Roadrunner. I love that obscenely fast, paper armored, little rear end in a top hat. Which it is clan, lol, but it's in line with 'run faster than they can aim' thought process.
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Jul 22, 2022 13:17
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Who would win in a fight, the 3025 Federated Suns or the 3150 Federated Suns?
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Jul 22, 2022 13:49
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General Battuta posted:Who would win in a fight, the 3025 Federated Suns or the 3150 Federated Suns? That's not really a fair comparison, the Federated Suns has something like 30 regiments in 3150 and had well over a hundred in 3025. About the only 3025 state that wouldn't utterly demolish their 3150 counterpart with sheer numbers alone is the Capellan Confederation. Pretty sure 3150 CapCon beats 3025 CapCon hands-down. If you assumed numbers weren't a factor (regiment vs. regiment fights with time for the victor to rest and fully repair between each fight) the 3150 states would walk all over their 3025-era counterparts. Edit: I do think I'd take a lance or so of Scarecrows against the 3025-era Federated Suns' finest company of BJ-1 Blackjacks, though. That sounds like a fun time. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 13:57
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I’m still laughing that a goon named Comstar is upset over the Clan Invasion. World class stuff.
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Jul 22, 2022 14:16
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Well the invasion did not end well for them.
Taerkar fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 14:24
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