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Trauma is not a competition. It is interesting how much awful poo poo in the current day and age took shape during the era of online video. Gets me all nice and every once in a while when I hear about old gore sites and 4chan and the modern fascist agenda.
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# ? Jul 29, 2022 22:58 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:50 |
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Soul Dentist posted:The /library suffix at that site was a big part of me learning about things they did not teach in school. Anybody remember Temple of the Screaming Electron? How did you get your copy of the Anarchist's Handbook? Yeah I remember totse. I think I got Anarchist Cookbook and Jolly Roger Cookbook from some anonymous ftp site in the late 90s.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 00:42 |
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That day again. https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...round-briefing/ Preamble, then excerpts as I arbitrarily decide. Not a whole lot this week. -No new arms announcements -US does not have a clear idea of what happened at the POW camp, holding Ukrainians, that has been all over the news today (Ukraine claims Wagner blew it up or burned it, Russia claims Ukraine struck the site). SMO states he would not be surprised either way, but that if Ukraine struck the prison with HIMARS, he does not believe they would do so on purpose. -Russian gains in Donbas still small, incremental, at cost -Ukraine making some gains in direction of Kherson, but no major counteroffensive or what could be called a breakthrough -US monitoring Ukrainian consumption rates; ammo drawn down to give to Ukraine are not depleting US war-stocks, and industry and DOD working on ways to increase production [My note: outside of this forum, the Senate Armed Services Committee has requested significantly more HIMARS, GMLRS, and Javelin production in future years than the US Army even asked for in its own budget requests] -HIMARS have been effective in targeting SAMs, and Russia remains unable to establish air superiority -Russia utilizing filtration camps, including torture, executions, deportations. Unclear how many people held. quote:SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Thank you. Good to be with you again today. Today, I'll be very brief with my opening comments and then hand it off to [Senior Military Official].
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 00:50 |
"Filtration camps"? loving christ.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 00:54 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:"Filtration camps"? loving christ. Those have been a thing since at least early May, possibly earlier. It's certain that given the mass executions began in the opening weeks of the invasion, and that reports of the filtration camps and forced adoptions cane to light not long after that that this was the Russian strategy for the permanent Russification of Ukraine from day one. I've said it before, there are no Germans or Poles in Kaliningrad, there are no Finns or Lapps in Karelia or Murmansk, and there are no Japanese or Ainu in the Kurils. This is well established strategy. Edit: I'm reminded of those cremation trucks the Russians allegedly had staged pre-invasion. Has anything come out about how those trucks have been employed and what their current disposition is? A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jul 30, 2022 |
# ? Jul 30, 2022 01:13 |
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Hey do you guys remember 2020 when we were all bitching about being locked inside and not talking about filtration camps and mobile crematoria? gently caress Putin with a rake, is what I’m trying to say.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 01:29 |
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Dont forget stealing loving children
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 01:57 |
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So it's some of the same poo poo that the Nazis did, again. I loving hope we don't end up seeing massive concentration camps.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 11:14 |
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Jimmy Smuts posted:So it's some of the same poo poo that the Nazis did, again. I loving hope we don't end up seeing massive concentration camps. They're already sending dissidents from occupied territories to work camps in Siberia, which was the literal original use of concentration camps by Nazi Germany until they started being used for mass murder.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 11:19 |
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psydude posted:They're already sending dissidents from occupied territories to work camps in Siberia, which was the literal original use of concentration camps by Nazi Germany until they started being used for mass murder. I just hope Russian incompetence means they can't set up effective death camps.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 11:33 |
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Jimmy Smuts posted:gently caress. Yeah, between Russian corruption and observed general inhumanity, you want to take wagers on those camps being heated, edible food or healthcare being available, even before we talk about the guards being pretty casual about murder? They're going to wind up death camps, no matter the intention. And the intention is almost certainly death camps.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 12:37 |
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Less Auschwitz, more easily amused 8 year old's aquarium.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 12:42 |
Soul Dentist posted:The /library suffix at that site was a big part of me learning about things they did not teach in school. Anybody remember Temple of the Screaming Electron? How did you get your copy of the Anarchist's Handbook? Temple of the Screaming Electron is a name I haven't thought of in a long time. Reading that stuff on school 56k dialup is a memory.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 13:36 |
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A.o.D. posted:Less Auschwitz, more easily amused 8 year old's aquarium. Either way all the fish end up dead. At some point malicious intent and complete lack of care converge.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 14:25 |
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Murgos posted:Either way all the fish end up dead. At some point malicious intent and complete lack of care converge. Oh, it'll be absolutely brutal. A greater percentage of human beings under the neglected fishtank model will be subjected to personalized and targeted cruelty than the industrialized murder factory. It's all just different flavors of humanity's worst aspects.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 14:49 |
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MrYenko posted:Hey do you guys remember 2020 when we were all bitching about being locked inside and not talking about filtration camps and mobile crematoria? Sideways *nods*
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 15:21 |
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IPCRESS posted:Yeah, between Russian corruption and observed general inhumanity, you want to take wagers on those camps being heated, edible food or healthcare being available, even before we talk about the guards being pretty casual about murder? This is closer to when the Turks didn't intend to starve as many Armenians on the forced marches through the desert, or for individual units to conduct massacres, but were happy with the results.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 15:32 |
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If there are mass executions to go along with the concentration camps then there will likely be repercussions for the international order, in particular the UN and other instruments of US hegemony. I dunno if that could be a secondary goal the Russians would value, but I would think that their strategy doesn't involve being welcomed back into the international order with open arms
Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 30, 2022 |
# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:29 |
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Grip it and rip it posted:If there are mass executions to go along with the concentration camps then there will likely be repercussions for the international order, in particular the UN and other instruments of US hegemony. The camps in question are run by Russia (or their instruments of hegemony) so how will the US (or their instruments of hegemony) experience these "repercussions" precisely if the Russians are killing Ukrainian POWs? Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jul 30, 2022 |
# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:34 |
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Grip it and rip it posted:If there are mass executions to go along with the concentration camps then there will likely be repercussions for the international order, in particular the UN and other instruments of US hegemony. Source your quotes.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:43 |
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Rust Martialis posted:The camps in question are run by Russia (or their instruments of hegemony) so how will the US (or their instruments of hegemony) experience these "repercussions" precisely if the Russians are killing Ukrainian POWs? It could well demonstrate the inability of the US and west to enact the stated goals of the UN and international order with respect to preventing genocide, and attempt to install an understanding of international relations based on "great" (i. e. Nuclear) power status. I 100% think this is a hairbrained analysis that I only came up with after trying to surmise why Russia would seek to do such insane poo poo. If they cross the red line over and over again, and nothing is done to them, then they have "demonstrated" great power status. Again I dont believe any of this, but I'm trying to see the thread of logic that runs through their behavior up to this point.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:52 |
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I feel more and more, as time goes on, that we must intervene as we did in desert storm. I am indifferent about a nuclear threat from russia, we are on a road to climate hell and frankly if the world is going to end, might as well be for a halfway decent reason. gently caress russia, we can't allow them to continue doing this.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:56 |
Jimmy Smuts posted:gently caress. Unfortunately the only thing you need to set up an effective death camp is to not feed the prisoners well enough to keep them alive, so incompetence only makes that more likely. efb
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:56 |
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Who there's gonna be repercussions for kinda rests on how much of the international community can see themselves wanting to set up a filtration camp themselves sometime, or maybe have themselves already gotten poo poo from the hypocritical westerners for setting up one. I don't think they're gonna be able to set up their own international order, it's a desperation move, but it's kinda uncomfortable how you can see what they're going for and how it could happen
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 17:56 |
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Rust Martialis posted:The camps in question are run by Russia (or their instruments of hegemony) so how will the US (or their instruments of hegemony) experience these "repercussions" precisely if the Russians are killing Ukrainian POWs? Strictly speaking Russians are killing POWs and evidence has been turning up of that for a while. People who had surrendered at Mariupol were already turning up dead far before this. Presumably the continued response is to keep giving Ukraine the means of killing as many Russian soldiers and to destroy as much Russian materiel as possible and to continue to sanction as much of the Russian economy as possible. Springboarding off this to talk about POWs and filtration camps a bit: tbh when the Mariupol defenders surrendered, the broad consensus was that there's got to be almost no way that they're ever getting out. Russia was promising that they'd be exchanged for Russian prisoners, but I'd be surprised if many in the Ukrainian government believed that deal was likely. You had a core group of extremely motivated and extremely effective people who fought apparently 12-15 BTGs to a near standstill for 2 months who were both heroes to Ukraine and extremely experienced fighters who'd be useful either as fighters or as trainers. Letting that manpower back into Ukrainian circulation was, imo, probably never going to happen. Doubly so because many of the captures were Azov, albeit it's worth noting that many more Ukrainian units than just Azov were fighting in Mariupol. Particularly in light of the ilovaisk massacre where Russia machine-gunned and shelled a convoy of Ukrainians retreating through a negotiated corridor, it's doubtful anyone had too much faith in the Russian promises. WRT POWs the bigger question is it 1) widespread 2) officially ordered and by who at what level. Torture and summary executions of Ukrainian POWs has been credibly alleged repeatedly to be widespread, though this would be the largest alleged single execution of Ukrainian POWs of this conflict afaik. Notably in the 2014 war there were significant massacres surrendering Ukrainians. Also the filtration camp stuff is generally separate from the POW stuff. The filtration camps are far, far larger than anything to do with POWs. Ukrainian POWs for perspective number like .1% compared to the number of people who have gone through filtration camps. Notably filtration camps have been credibly accused of executing people and indeed that is part of their purpose, albeit not exactly the primary purpose: they're meant to screen 100% of people going through them for any questionable loyalties or signs of potential for unrest or disloyalty and to determine if people fought against or resisted Russia. That said, they're very much a part of the formal Russian doctrine of cleansing occupied areas of anyone who might cause problems. idk if it's really known what happens to people who get flagged in filtration camps. Presumably some are used in prisoner exchanges, but many simply disappear. aphid_licker posted:Who there's gonna be repercussions for kinda rests on how much of the international community can see themselves wanting to set up a filtration camp themselves sometime, or maybe have themselves already gotten poo poo from the hypocritical westerners for setting up one. I don't think they're gonna be able to set up their own international order, it's a desperation move, but it's kinda uncomfortable how you can see what they're going for and how it could happen I think totalitarian and heavily authoritarian governments regularly underestimate just how universally unpopular that degree of totalitarian force applied wholesale against civilians is to most of the rest of the world. It's one of the major things that causes migration and as such, even in countries seemingly well-insulated from it, you'll still have a significant portion of your population within a degree or two of someone who first hand experienced one of the more horrific camps or totalitarian crackdowns and that stuff is polarizing for generations. In less stable regions the memory and experience of that kind of force is even more immediate and isn't buried three generations back. Lowkey russia and china both gently caress up a lot of their foreign messaging by failing to appreciate this point and it's behind a lot of the more tone deaf messaging efforts where there's a presupposition that people only oppose it to score international public opinion points and not because most people know someone who fled a hyper-repressive state. Other authoritarian states gently caress it up too, I just mention russia and china here because they're both otherwise competent enough in their messaging efforts that you'd think they'd grasp that dynamic better. E: also sorry for the wall of text about depressing topics Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 30, 2022 |
# ? Jul 30, 2022 18:09 |
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Grip it and rip it posted:It could well demonstrate the inability of the US and west to enact the stated goals of the UN and international order with respect to preventing genocide, and attempt to install an understanding of international relations based on "great" (i. e. Nuclear) power status. I mean it's hardly a stretch, that's basically been Putin's MO for his entire run. Cross the red line du jour while simultaneously shrieking "I'm not touching you" and "see decadent west is too weak to do anything" and "see decadent west can do everything to stop us but they don't care about you" and "stop hitting yourself". When you're a star, they let you do it. Grab 'em right by the exclave, they'll let you do anything Really though it's striking how much of geopolitics is just domestic abuse dynamics scaled up shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 30, 2022 |
# ? Jul 30, 2022 18:40 |
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Grip it and rip it posted:It could well demonstrate the inability of the US and west to enact the stated goals of the UN and international order with respect to preventing genocide, and attempt to install an understanding of international relations based on "great" (i. e. Nuclear) power status. It is my belief that Putin is cargo culting Stalin, and is enacting the polices he has because he sees Stalin as the greatest
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 18:52 |
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Russian civilian commits murder on camera: https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1553357113489244160
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 20:29 |
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Жодий working overtime
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 20:35 |
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I find it odd when people compare Russian camps for political prisoners to the Nazis. I mean, yes technically--you're not wrong but I don't think you need to travel that distance.A.o.D. posted:It is my belief that Putin is cargo culting Stalin, and is enacting the polices he has because he sees Stalin as the greatest
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 21:37 |
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piL posted:I find it odd when people compare Russian camps for political prisoners to the Nazis. I mean, yes technically--you're not wrong but I don't think you need to travel that distance. Tankies have done a good enough job of whitewashing the USSR that a lot of people don't know about the Gulags.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 21:50 |
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Read Gulag Archipelago. This is not directed at anyone in particular. I just feel that it should be part of the basic curricula for modern political education.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 21:57 |
Human history is terrible. All of it.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 22:41 |
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Жодий working overtime I was about to post “disappointed this didn’t translate to Jody” but then I took a closer look at “Zhodyi”.
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# ? Jul 30, 2022 23:48 |
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A.o.D. posted:Read Gulag Archipelago. I think One Day In The Life of Iván Denísovich gets you halfway there faster but I concede the point.
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 00:02 |
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ulmont posted:I think One Day In The Life of Iván Denísovich gets you halfway there faster but I concede the point. Gulag Archipeligo doesn't feel like a 1,400+ page book when you're reading it. But, yeah, it'll take you a bit. Kolyma Tales by Varlam Shalamov is another good intro to the Gulag.
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 00:53 |
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ulmont posted:I think One Day In The Life of Iván Denísovich gets you halfway there faster but I concede the point. also unless something changed the ebook versions of gulag archipelago are TERRIBLE
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 01:36 |
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About filtration camps and what anyone, even Ukraine can do about them, the answer is win the war. Looking back in alternate history, there wasn't really anything the Allies could do to stop the Holocaust. Yeah we could undo turning away that one ship full of refugees and such but the industrial murder was going to continue as long as the nazis had the power to continue it. The Allies completely mobilized their entire societies to winning that war, but there wasn't any way to change their enemies internal behavior without destroying the armies and air defenses standing between the allies and the camps. If we want the horror and murder to stop, we need to help Ukraine win as quickly, completely, and decisively as possible. More missiles, more artillery, more ammo and it's about time we start training them on the F-16, what's the loving holdup?
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 04:36 |
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Uncle Enzo posted:...it's about time we start training them on the F-16, what's the loving holdup? It's not that simple. A curriculum needs to be designed from the ground up, as even though you'd THINK most combat pilots would at least know Aviation English, some poo poo isn't going to translate well. They'll need to be trained on subsystems. Translators and instructors will have to be introduced and familiarized. It needs to be decided (and probably legislated) on with regards to which systems we'll *permit* loaded into said F-16s. And this is even before the airframes are brought back to airworthiness from AMARG. The US military can do a lot of things but this is not something that can be done quickly.
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 04:44 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:50 |
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As long as we can backfill EU/NATO countries providing what they are already familiar with, I wouldn't worry about giving them planes. Send more HIMARS instead.
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# ? Jul 31, 2022 05:12 |