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Not only that, but it's become mainstream enough that more conservative commanders have learned to counter it in their own ways. I really like the implication that Rustal only took over the Arianrhod Fleet after their previous commander was disgraced at Dort - he's Tekkadan's creation, too.
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Aug 9, 2022 23:05
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Darth Walrus posted:Not only that, but it's become mainstream enough that more conservative commanders have learned to counter it in their own ways. I really like the implication that Rustal only took over the Arianrhod Fleet after their previous commander was disgraced at Dort - he's Tekkadan's creation, too. I don't think this is confirmed anywhere, but it feels true. I just don't see him letting that broadcast continue, regulations be damned.
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Aug 9, 2022 23:12
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IBO EP 20 Seconds after touchdown and the ep is already better than the last. I think the tropical island locale this EP might be the best environment that's been portrayed in gundam. Probably tied with some of the shots of the jungle in Reco. Makanai delivering them the fish has got to be one of the most on the nose metaphors in Gundam history. They are that fish in the pot, he's got them hook line and sinker. As Orga shows in his embarrassing display during the conference to deliver Kudelia, he explodes when he realizes Makanai doesn't hold any actual power currently. He's totally incapable of seeing the bigger picture and pulls back into the same bluster he's always relied on only to get smacked down hard by Makanai. He's trapped on that island at Makanai's discretion, Eugene is trapped in space at the same. They could theoretically have Teiwaz get them out of there, but Carta letting him go is not a sure thing. He complains to Biscuit that they need to become big enough to not get taken advantage of while he himself maneuvered Tekkaden in a position where they almost need to help Makanai even before Carta forces the issue at the end of the episode. They're gonna help the man or they're gonna get served up just like that Flounder. Also straight up I think that fish flopping is the first time Mika has shown any shock at all at a situation. GJ has been tackling him all wrong if they simply used the Mermaid gundam he would be thrown off balance enough for them to get the kill. Safarin committing suicide was pretty much how it had to go down, Biscuit being the first to crack through the toxic atmosphere developing around Tekkaden and calling out Orga on his bullshit. Him pointing out that they've mostly got by on luck is a good contrast to Makanai betting his return on that same luck, the difference being he's an old man whose already got power and is trying to get it back, The Tekkaden gang have their whole lives ahead of them, but are increasingly in the thrall of a near suicidal cult leader whose constant belief that he cannot back down for an instant or he will face the wrath of the murder manlet is leading them all to their deaths. Orga is continually putting his Family in untenable positions that require them to push their luck past the breaking point. There's a good comparison here to be made to the Hustler, in that movie Fast Eddie comes to battle Minnesota Fats in the noble art of Pool, at the start of the match his bluster and overconfidence allow him to pull ahead, but Fats stays calm and composed. As the others say in the film, Eddie is a born loser, he can't let go his desire to be the best insures that he will lose in the end. All Fats had to do is stay composed and keep going until he started to slip, one miss here, a scratch there, suddenly all that Ego and Pride turn against yourself, you can't let go you just need one more step, one more round, one more chance. And then it's gone, you've spiraled and taken out every one and everything you dragged along with you in your own self aggrandizing journey. The most telling scene this episode is in his talk with Biscuit, his desire is to become bigger than Makanai, Teiwaz, even GJ. He doesn't idolize people like Kudelia who want to change things for the better for humanity, he idolizes men like Makanai who have no compunctions about arranging assassinations, using child soldiers, and throwing away the people he doesn't need. Compare that to Mika, a man whose dream is to be a farmer, someone who creates the sustenance of humanity. Mika might be a murder manlet, but he isn't a bad guy, he just doesn't know how to get from where he is to where he wants to be, and he put all his chips on the wrong horse to get him there. Orga is the Charles Manson, the Walter White, the Lucifer, his desire to be a Big Man has thrown out all his compunctions or concerns about what his "Family" actually wants or needs. One thing I couldn't decide is Naze in all this, he says to Orga that he shouldn't consider McMurdo's opinion in this matter when he talks to him, but Naze also has a great understanding of Orga's Psychology. As McGillis says in the last episode, if you understand someones past you can understand what they'll do in the future. His Smirk at the end makes me lean on him purposely saying that Orga's role in this was over and McMurdo would be happy either way. For someone like Orga who craves validation from shotcallers, having someone he calls a brother tell him that what he's doing is insignificant is just going to make him triple down. I also don't see why he would send Lafter and Azee down to earth if not to keep tabs on him and help him pull off this gamble. That said maybe he is telling the truth, McMurdo does have other pots about to boil and would be fine with his Turbine Jr.s coming back to mars and settling to a nice uncontroversial but still profitable role in his organization.
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Aug 9, 2022 23:43
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Bloody Pom posted:Even loving Jona manages to have more personality than Banagher. Though I'm probably letting my opinions be colored by him recently getting the SRW treatment and actually receiving character development as a result. You are 100% painting the SRW story, which lets him bounce off the OC, Amuro, Kamille, and Uso to actually become something approaching a three dimensional character. Endorph posted:Oh, I more meant 'setting stuff in the UC timeline,' I guess. Setting stuff in the UC timeline allows you to borrow the importance of past works, but it also means you're inherently bogged down by other stuff no matter where you set it in the timeline or what your end goal with the material is. Even if Unicorn was about the inevitable despair of the future it'd be bogged down by Crossbone being a goofy pirate adventure, or Turn-A and G-Reco in the very very long term. It's a dead-end road if you take it as a whole. Part of the problem is the scale of things in the UC. The Early UC is loving jam packed with apocalyptic wars as the Federation vs Zeon poo poo plays out. The Late UC is actually better paced if you consider there's 30 years between F91 and Victory, and almost 30 between F91 and Unicorn. MSG to CCA takes place over 12 years, cramming in 3 wars against what could be considered Spacenoid states and a civil conflict. That is a very dense timeline, and there's only so much war and horror you can cram into the 20 years after the One Year War before the setting starts to look a bit like a farce. Give me a post-Victory pre-Reco animated Gundam.
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Aug 9, 2022 23:48
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Gaius Marius posted:IBO EP 20 The last few episodes of season 1 are a wild ride, and are probably my favorite of the series as a whole. A lot of the build up of the previous 20 episodes really pays off.
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Aug 10, 2022 00:11
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How quickly we forget build divers.
Caros fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 00:39
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Caros posted:How quickly we forget build divers. Indeed
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Aug 10, 2022 00:41
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Runa posted:Indeed Apparently even my phone forgot how links work.
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Aug 10, 2022 00:48
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Caros posted:How quickly we forget build divers. This Haro is from 00, I'm pretty sure
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Aug 10, 2022 00:50
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yeah i think that's nena's haro
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Aug 10, 2022 00:52
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Caros posted:How quickly we forget build divers. Yeah I'm pretty sure this is the mean Haro and it turns on Nena when she decides to defect but it's been a while since I watched 00, so I'm probably off.
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Aug 10, 2022 00:56
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Tulalip Tulips posted:Yeah I'm pretty sure this is the mean Haro and it turns on Nena when she decides to defect but it's been a while since I watched 00, so I'm probably off. It is. The first main antagonist of build divers uses it as his avatar.
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Aug 10, 2022 01:07
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Bloody Pom posted:Even loving Jona manages to have more personality than Banagher. Though I'm probably letting my opinions be colored by him recently getting the SRW treatment and actually receiving character development as a result. This is 100% SRW fanfic, unfortunately. Jona gets basically nothing in the movie because he exists in a vacuum and pretty much interacts with no one before he has a completely unearned getting-over-it moment five minutes before the end of the movie using a powerup provided by two dead women. Jona is such a bad character in his source material that he makes Banagher look nuanced and deep.
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Aug 10, 2022 01:09
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Jona is a good kid and by god that boy deserves his wings. You go be that bird, dude.
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Aug 10, 2022 01:23
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Jona is a pretty strong contender for the worst protagonist in the franchise. No I have not played SRW
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Aug 10, 2022 01:35
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Popping in Unicorn episode 1 It pretty
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Aug 10, 2022 02:44
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Stark Jegan had a goat pilot for trying something that ballsy.
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Aug 10, 2022 02:59
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Love that Banagher learns that a man is his father by fact of said man giving him a Gundam
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Aug 10, 2022 03:35
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Darth Walrus posted:Not only that, but it's become mainstream enough that more conservative commanders have learned to counter it in their own ways. I really like the implication that Rustal only took over the Arianrhod Fleet after their previous commander was disgraced at Dort - he's Tekkadan's creation, too. Gaius Marius posted:I don't think this is confirmed anywhere, but it feels true. I just don't see him letting that broadcast continue, regulations be damned. Uh, unless I'm misremembering there's only a few ships at Dort. Far, FAR less than Rustal shows up with in S2. Meaning the implication is more that it's a small detachment of the Arianrhod Fleet while the majority, including Rustal and his Skipjack-class, were still on their normal patrols much further out in the Solar System and never appeared in S1. Now the events probably got him to start paying attention to what was going on, given Gaelio was retrieved by Rustal's forces after Edmonton, but Dort itself was likely just a subcommander.
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Aug 10, 2022 03:46
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There's a good number of ships at fort, more than Carta has guarding earth. More than one character calls it the Main Arianhod fleet too. They might be wrong though
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Aug 10, 2022 04:00
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Gaius Marius posted:There's a good number of ships at fort, more than Carta has guarding earth. More than one character calls it the Main Arianhod fleet too. They might be wrong though There's a lot of ships, but by my count there were less than a dozen halfbeaks (less than Carta's fleet). It's mostly just suits and transports for suits. And Rustal's flagship is conspicuous by its absence. Even if his playbook is in use, the man himself doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
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Aug 10, 2022 05:34
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It's entirely possible that the Skipjack was built during the timeskip as part of Rustal's efforts to modernise the Arianrhod Fleet, whether he was given command after Dort or not.
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Aug 10, 2022 05:43
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It's always possible, but the issue is, as mentioned, there's only about a dozen ships at Dort. In the final battle in S2, the Arianrhod Fleet shows up with over 40 Halfbeaks - possibly well over 40 depending on how you interpret certain scenes and comments. That's a huge discrepancy, and given how grounded IBO generally is in terms of new production I don't think you can just say they went on a giant ship building spree in the two years between the seasons.
Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 06:08
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Arianrhod was stated as being the largest and most powerful fleet. It also had the best pilots cause they actually did things like get into fights.
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Aug 10, 2022 09:33
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They could’ve also shuffled vessels around from other zones, or outright combined fleets into it.
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Aug 10, 2022 11:09
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ManSedan posted:They could’ve also shuffled vessels around from other zones, or outright combined fleets into it. Yes, they could have, but those would be existing fleets not present at Dort, which is what we were discussing. Given that the only new Mobile Suits that got more than 20 production models handled in 2 years were the ones explicitly built to be cheap and easy to make at the cost of being weaker than a base Graze (the Shiden and the Hloekk Graze), I think it's reasonable to assume Gjallarhorn wasn't pulling fleets out of its rear end, suggesting that Dort was handled by one of Rustal's subordinates, especially since his flagship was absent. (Assuming it exists, which seems reasonable, since IBO isn't a show where you can just build 800 meter super-carriers on a whim). Speaking of people who can do that, I watched more of Gundam 00. I keep feeling like I should have more to say about 00. That the religious allusions should go somewhere, that the thematics should be worth discussing, that there should be something to say. But Gundam 00 season 2 focuses on the symbol to ignore the substance behind it, and that makes it all feel empty. Characters exist to present their thematic point ("Revenge is bad" "Peace is good" "Saji is useless") and anything in the world that would impede that is to be ignored. Thus infinite Momento Moris until there aren't, thus Katharon's complete disconnect from the political winds of the world ensuring there's always redshirts, thus Setsuna being the messiah. It's astounding how much of the cast and how many plots just are kind of... there. I keep going back to the terrorist subplot in season 1, which is cleaned up so easily that I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. There's all these characters, all these episodes, that are forgotten as soon as they're done, and it means the show doesn't hang together on a thematic level. Like Marina's song. We all hate the song, but one thing that makes it extra-terrible is that it's not a solution to the problems at hand, even if we pretend it does everything the show hypes it up to do, rather than just being generic emotionally manipulative kids singing. The issue of season 2 is that most of the world is in false peace. A small part of the world is getting a boot on the neck, but supposedly the rest of the world doesn't even know anything's wrong. Thus, Marina's song should get a "That's nice how we have peace" not "Ah, yes. We need an end to the madness of this war!" It's also a bit where the A-Laws are too strong and too weak at once. They have infinite political power and endless armies of killbots, but we're also supposed to think that Marina's song getting radio airplay is a big blow against them, and that Katharon is anything other than a way to kill Kenny. For the episode, Wang Liu Mei, her brother, and Nina all die without any of them presenting a compelling argument for their existence in season 2, or even season 1. Further, we see Wang Liu Mei go through half a dozen motive reveals in contradictory directions inside of five minutes, concluding with her refusing to go with the one person who could save her because she has plans... that just went up in smoke because everyone else either died, betrayed her, or both. Again, it's the show's shadow overwhelming its substance. Wang Liu Mei is rejecting the messiah and refusing to accept the one path to salvation, but we don't have any clear reasons for this to happen in the scene. It's just the script saying we need someone to play doomed passenger on the Poseidon. It's bad, and more than that, it makes it hard to care even when it's good. When characters only exist for a message, it's hard to care about them.
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Aug 10, 2022 12:08
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On the Ahab reactors in IBO, isn't it only the Gundam signatures that are documented because they're 300-odd years old and well-known to the Seven Stars?
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Aug 10, 2022 12:28
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Neddy Seagoon posted:On the Ahab reactors in IBO, isn't it only the Gundam signatures that are documented because they're 300-odd years old and well-known to the Seven Stars? Maybe the Graze's too. One of Ein's issues is that Tekkadan is using Krenk's Graze and he knows this because of the reactor frequency.
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Aug 10, 2022 13:06
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Neddy Seagoon posted:On the Ahab reactors in IBO, isn't it only the Gundam signatures that are documented because they're 300-odd years old and well-known to the Seven Stars? Gundams, specifically, are unique because they're like the only MS that use two reactors aren't they? Just to add on to that, so if you see that specific sort of signal you kinda know that's what's out there. Which is why Gaelio managed to pull a big ruse on everyone by adding a third to his just to fool everyone.
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Aug 10, 2022 13:47
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Yeah but they recognize Cranks graze off his reactor and they track the isarabi on it's.
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Aug 10, 2022 14:28
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Mind you, Rustal is one of the only people in the solar system who has access to giant fuckoff production facilities. It's how he ends up with the lion's share of Gjallarhorn's next-gen mobile suits, and how he manages to get enough Dainsleif launchers up and running that they become invincible superweapons rather than powerful but clumsy tactical options for individual suits.
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Aug 10, 2022 15:10
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I always assumed that Ahab wave signatures were like fingerprints - every reactor has a unique one, but you don't automatically know every reactor's frequency if you haven't seen that reactor before. Gjallarhorn knows all the Gundams because of their origins, and they know all the Grazes because they built them, but they wouldn't initially know the signatures of the Roueis. Once they see them they'll note it down, but changing their armor away from Teiwaz livery for their initial appearance gives the plausible deniability of "what? these ahab reactors were used to fight you? that's wild. we picked these up in a clearance sale a couple months ago, guy said they fell off a truck" if Gjallarhorn picks up their signatures when they're changed back to Teiwaz livery later.
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Aug 10, 2022 17:28
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Kanos posted:I always assumed that Ahab wave signatures were like fingerprints - every reactor has a unique one, but you don't automatically know every reactor's frequency if you haven't seen that reactor before. Gjallarhorn knows all the Gundams because of their origins, and they know all the Grazes because they built them, but they wouldn't initially know the signatures of the Roueis. Once they see them they'll note it down, but changing their armor away from Teiwaz livery for their initial appearance gives the plausible deniability of "what? these ahab reactors were used to fight you? that's wild. we picked these up in a clearance sale a couple months ago, guy said they fell off a truck" if Gjallarhorn picks up their signatures when they're changed back to Teiwaz livery later. Yeah, the entire deal with Teiwaz is that while they have excellent in-house frames, they can't make reactors like Gjallarhorn can and have to buy or salvage them instead. Even if you're absolutely sure a particular reactor was once in the hands of a famous Teiwaz ace like Amida, they can just go 'well, poo poo, guess someone stole that while we were docked on Saisei, you know how it is'. For everything else, proving ownership is an absolute loving nightmare because for all you know, it might have been dug out of a random asteroid just a couple of days ago.
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Aug 10, 2022 19:17
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i missed most of the Unicorn discourse but it looks like it's still going on so I'm going to throw in my two cents. i think Unicorn can be divisive depending on how familiar you are with Gundam as a whole. I had only ever really watched the Toonami suite of shows; Wing, G Gundam, 08th MS Team. if you've already sat through the entirety of the UC, I think Unicorn probably feels like a soulless re-hash. but for someone like me it was a great introduction to the UC. it got me excited about the concepts and encouraged me to go back and watch 0079, which I did, and loved, and immediately watched the Origin afterwards, and worked my way on to Zeta, etc. I think if you're newish to UC, Unicorn is a fun way to dip your toes in without having to invest a ton of time. it's what like 6 hours? and at the very least, it has some extremely impressive hand drawn mech animation. if you appreciate how fuckin hard it is to draw a geometrically accurate robot and stay on model as it rotates at 20 drawings a second you've gotta at least give it props for that there's also IBO discourse going on right now and I'll offer my opinion on that too. IBO is good
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Aug 11, 2022 01:34
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Gaius Marius posted:Yeah but they recognize Cranks graze off his reactor and they track the isarabi on it's. Ship Ahab signatures would absolute be a registration thing for anything legitimate, I'd wager.
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Aug 11, 2022 02:17
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chiasaur11 posted:Yes, they could have, but those would be existing fleets not present at Dort, which is what we were discussing. Miu is to parallel Ribbons himself, both are forced to perform a role that they don't want to play by their "Families". The same way the Innovades were created as artificial angels to guide humanity towards innovation, the Wang family forced her to become the head of their family in lieu of her brother. And both of them end up lashing out and trying to take control of their own destines to disastrous effects. It's a last minute parallel to get you to think that even with how monstrous Ribbons is, he is still somewhat sympathetic, just like stealing a young woman's life away and forcing her into a position of leadership she doesn't want Ribbons was more than that fully created only to serve a role in the creation of the new world, not to become part of it. It's also what makes Tiera so special as after his full on breakdown in S1, he understands the full weight of the plan even divorced from VEDA and still chooses to attempt Aeolia's plan. Like Abraham at the mount choosing to sacrifice Issac, the choice needs to be made of your own free will not compelled out of you. Soran continues to fight for the future of humanity no matter how grim even if that future isn't certain, that level of self sacrifice and faith isn't possible for someone like Ribbons who very overtly is about total control. His fate was decided for him at birth, and he reacts violently against it to take back control of it, and everyone else's lives. Nena only exists in S2 because she was popular for some godforsaken reason. You could argue she gives them another ace for them to fight against with Patrick becoming a full joke character and Soma getting Maried. But they already have Ali and Graham, plus all the Innovades. It was a mistake to let her live, and even more so because if they'd done it right they could've made something of her. Have her fully repentant, or learning to be while being a free agent for Wang is an interesting inbetween role that they sort of also tried with Lyle to also not particularly good effect. Her Gundam also looks dumb
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Aug 11, 2022 02:41
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JoeGlassJAw posted:i missed most of the Unicorn discourse but it looks like it's still going on so I'm going to throw in my two cents. I've heard that spin for Unicorn, and I'm somewhat skeptical. The main audience in Japan was longtime Gundam fans, and it was popular enough with them to set sales records, even spiking for the final episode rather than dipping like some OVAs (Akito the Exiled, say). I've actually gotten more fond of Unicorn as I've seen more Gundam, although I don't know how well that would hold up through a rewatch. It does a good job of fleshing out the UC, giving texture to all the main factions that makes their actions grounded and believable, even when they're monsters. Where ZZ Gundam's Federation is a bunch of cardboard cutouts to boo, Unicorn's Federation can be just as terrible... but you completely understand why they think they're the good guys.
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Aug 11, 2022 03:52
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chiasaur11 posted:I've heard that spin for Unicorn, and I'm somewhat skeptical. The main audience in Japan was longtime Gundam fans, and it was popular enough with them to set sales records, even spiking for the final episode rather than dipping like some OVAs (Akito the Exiled, say). I've actually personally experienced the exact opposite, even. The online streaming group I hang out at watched Unicorn (or at least the repackaged for TV version) on Toonami, and a number of them were legitimately confused about (and therefore somewhat put off by) what was actually going on. For instance I basically had to give a play-by-play explaining what Vist and Zinnerman were talking about in the first movie when they started that back-and-forth conversation about the box and about what Zeon was/is/became/should have been. More than once I also had to give a quick cliff notes on things like "What's a Newtype" and "who is Char Aznable and why should I care that the weird villain guy looks like him?" and "what exactly is going on with Marida?" and "so are we supposed to be rooting for the Federation or what?" and even stuff like "so what's special about the Gundam's laser gun?" I can see how Unicorn's style, confidence, and sense of place could draw someone into the Universal Century, but it could just as easily make people check out depending on their inclination. No judgment intended by this, but there are people who will just throw up their hands and leave when faced with a story that expects them to know things they don't.
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Aug 11, 2022 04:37
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If you start someone with Unicorn, you should probably be on hand to help guide people when they ask setting questions like that, otherwise they're gonna get pretty confused I suppose
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Aug 11, 2022 04:42
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0080, 0083, 8th MS, The Origin and now Doan's Island are still better primers than Unicorn
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Aug 11, 2022 06:11
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