(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Cuttlefush posted:so trot is the tanky's tanky? kind of the opposite? tankie, not with a y, comes originally from attacking the communists who sided with the soviet union over sending the proverbial tanks into hungary and prague. i do not think troskyites were for that (in fact i think they explicitly loathed it) although i am less familiar with their period takes. the term means literally nothing now, but it's more likely to be used against someone who supports what the soviet union did rather than what trotsky did. from my idiot dumb going-to-get-yelled-at opinion, stalinists are "closer" to marxist tankies and troskyists are "closer" to anarchist marxists, and that usually informs what insults people throw within the tradition. anyone outside uses "trot" as a slur that means "mean communist who isn't allowed political agency in my party".
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Aug 12, 2022 23:32
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| # ? May 23, 2024 04:24 |
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the singular tankie being -ie instead of -y is hosed up but correct. I meant that as in tankie's (non-pejorative) tankie (pejorative). obviously that joke didn't land, but I was trying to make fun of apropos of nothing's "trot is just a term for people you dont like"
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Aug 12, 2022 23:38
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Cuttlefush posted:the singular tankie being -ie instead of -y is hosed up but correct. I meant that as in tankie's (non-pejorative) tankie (pejorative). obviously that joke didn't land, but I was trying to make fun of apropos of nothing's "trot is just a term for people you dont like" hes right
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Aug 13, 2022 00:03
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croup coughfield posted:hes right youre a trot
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Aug 13, 2022 00:06
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he is right, in that an anarchist is just a kind of trot, a neocon is a different kind of trot, etc
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Aug 13, 2022 00:30
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We all trot down here
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Aug 13, 2022 01:42
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I've been to Mexico City and didn't even bang Frida or have a pickaxe lodged into my skull
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Aug 13, 2022 01:47
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unwantedplatypus posted:We all trot down here lol
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Aug 13, 2022 02:03
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AnimeIsTrash posted:youre a trot i would like to know how you came to this conclusion
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Aug 13, 2022 02:09
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I suppose I am a Trotskyist but I have no appetite for rehashing debates about the USSR or Stalin because I have a hard time imagining my or anyone else's life being improved in any way by doing so and it's generally only going to be frustratingly intransigent weirdos who draw different conclusions about the events in Russia a century ago, and I'm a freak in any case for having studied the events of that history to have an opinion on them anyway I could spend my time a thousand different more pleasurable and productive ways than that debate. Like, I could look at the wall, for instance
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Aug 13, 2022 03:09
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People coming out as Trotskyists was sort of the opposite effect intended from defending Stalin
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Aug 13, 2022 03:44
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Thanks mostly to the SWP having Lyndon LaRouche and Sam Marcy as members at one point, there's a trot or trot-descended group for basically every current in US politics.
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Aug 13, 2022 05:07
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Halloween Jack posted:You know what text I wish someone had shown me when I was working construction for $6 an hour? Engels' Principles of Communism. It's like 3 pages and explains socialism succinctly and it's not harder to read than anything I was assigned in my high school freshman English class. There's a few bits that respond to contemporary questions that aren't relevant today, but that's not a big deal. There is also Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, which is also a very easy read.
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Aug 13, 2022 07:40
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Ferrinus posted:another thing about stalin is that discussions of the leadership of the soviet union are often if not arguably always proxies for discussion about china, vietnam, venezuela, palestine, etc. and if you're not able to look at history as a process rather than as a succession of bad guys tragically betraying and defeating good guys you're going to go the way of chris hitchens sooner or later Yeah, a lot of online marxlords say that Krushchev was where the Soviet Union got derailed, but Krushchevism was very much a product of Stalinism. Krushchev was one of the closest people to Stalin and the winner of a selection process Stalin put in motion, and he would never have gotten away with the speech if there hadn't been a base for it
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Aug 13, 2022 07:57
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https://twitter.com/jaybeware/status/1558171506626142210?t=J9xqmjbBRByZpMqpAPZr2g&s=19
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Aug 13, 2022 08:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/jaybeware/status/1558171506626142210?t=J9xqmjbBRByZpMqpAPZr2g&s=19 no no, it's fine, if they don't want to read gently caress 'em, let the reactionaries have them *loses again* how did that happen????
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Aug 13, 2022 08:31
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i clicked through a bit and, i have to say, they've got a point that at this point you have to wrestle with google to figure out which of the links it feeds you aren't some click-farming SEO chaff
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Aug 13, 2022 08:41
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Sounds like someone's gotta make Marxist tiktoks to reach gen z
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Aug 13, 2022 10:44
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we gotta get gen z into soviet polka
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Aug 13, 2022 13:12
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I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes.
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Aug 13, 2022 14:54
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Fish of hemp posted:I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes. He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect!
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Aug 13, 2022 14:56
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Cuttlefush posted:He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect!
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Aug 13, 2022 14:57
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Cuttlefush posted:He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect! 🍑
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Aug 13, 2022 15:02
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Cuttlefush posted:He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect!
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Aug 13, 2022 15:06
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Fish of hemp posted:I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes. it’s only natural to make mistakes when you’re trying to govern the worlds first socialist state experiment while surrounded by hostile bourgeois states trying to sabotage it by any means necessary
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Aug 13, 2022 15:20
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stalin's biggest mistake was refusing to launch an all-out offensive against pizza hut. we all saw how that went...
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Aug 13, 2022 15:21
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:stalin's biggest mistake was refusing to launch an all-out offensive against pizza hut. we all saw how that went... he knew even the immortal science of Marxist-Leninist thought can't out pizza the hut, he was wise.
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Aug 13, 2022 15:22
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Cuttlefush posted:He was Georgian and beautiful and perfect! he was a stud in his younger years
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Aug 13, 2022 15:24
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Stalin was hot, you can argue about his leadership all you want but the man was a 10/10
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Aug 13, 2022 15:25
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Fish of hemp posted:I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes. he made a lot of mistakes. but he did things for reasons and in response to conditions, "his" decisions were in fact the decisions of the main force of the communist party (such that it was not tricks and/or assassinations that made the difference between some policies being enacted and others being rejected), and that communist party in fact enjoyed several stupendous, world-historical successes given the context it was operating in. the relevance is that if you don't understand these things about the 20th century USSR you probably also don't understand these things about 21st century china or cuba
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Aug 13, 2022 16:24
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Fish of hemp posted:I don't quite understand why it's horrible to admit that Stalin made mistakes. He was just human, humans make mistakes. He was a big fan of the nation of Israel. 
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Aug 13, 2022 16:26
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all the russian complaints about the bolsheviks handing russian territory to the ukrainian SSR that led to the faultlines we see today led me down this rabbithole    the author is an anti communist dipshit, but the internal communist argument over nationalities and socialism is interesting. can't help but feel lenin was wrong, the soviet nationalities policy and yugoslavian federalism directly led to the splitting apart of those countries. mila kunis has issued a correction as of 16:57 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 16:50
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No criticism of Stalin is ever made in good faith
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Aug 13, 2022 17:46
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my most pointed critique is often that the person who has a hugely negative reaction to any given socialist leader would have probably also hated trotsky or whoever else if they'd heard of them, which limits somewhat how much progress you can move forward if you want to idolize people who actually did things rather than people who write good. even then people still routinely blame marx himself for all the victims of communism (of the memorial fund i mean) loving somehow and afaik all he did was drink and argue.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:53
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Maybe idolization is dumb and we shouldn't fall into the trap of attempting to morally justify, rather than materially justify, previous socialist projects.
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Aug 13, 2022 17:57
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mila kunis posted:yugoslavian federalism directly led to the splitting apart of those countries Technically correct, if you avoid anything that might lead to you going up, you'll never have to fear falling down.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:09
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https://twitter.com/jacobin/status/1558498622492254210?t=hV4aKoNBe_9gpDBSA434-Q&s=19
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Aug 13, 2022 18:10
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my dad posted:Technically correct, if you avoid anything that might lead to you going up, you'll never have to fear falling down. i guess that's a fair criticism but what could have been done to stop what happened then?
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Aug 13, 2022 18:11
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You can thank Ranković and his clique for utterly discrediting centralization of any sort with their unbelievably spectacular spook-brained fuckup attempt to further it, which got everyone else to massively backpedal.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:16
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| # ? May 23, 2024 04:24 |
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For a less flippant answer, poo poo's complex, and there were victories and defeats made during Socialist Yugoslavia's existence, and I would say that overly focusing on the federalism is kinda missing the forest for the trees. Failing to centralize was a failure of Yugoslavia's policy, but a failure that didn't happen in isolation from a broader context. For one, it underestimates the enormous amount of fuckery from NATO&pals that was happening for a longass time, systematically destroying Yugoslavia's foreign policy successes and damaging its internal stability, without which the federalism would not have been able to evolve into what it eventually became. e: ugh, i'm bad at words, i hope this doesn't sound too incoherent e2: the destruction of foreign policy successes is not a separate issue from the internal stability, due to how much Yugoslavia was idelogically dependent on internationalism, and is its own topic, honestly. Yugoslavia invested a lot into infrastructure projects in third world countries, establishing good relationships and mutual economic (and scientific, cultural, etc) benefits with them. A frequent comment is that Yugoslavia's offers weren't the cheapest available, but were the only ones that were exactly what it said on the tin. If you go down the list of countries that had strong economic ties to Yugoslavia, and then look at which countries America's foreign fuckery went berserk on, you'll find a very ~fun~ degree of overlap. e3: You may, in fact, find some interesting parallels here with things relevant today. my dad has issued a correction as of 18:39 on Aug 13, 2022 |
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Aug 13, 2022 18:32
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