(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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https://twitter.com/USAmbPH/status/1560865361142370304?t=7Vnh0zLh1hrPghxUf5DbZw&s=19
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Aug 20, 2022 08:44
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:17 |
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I always like how historically ambassadorship was a reward for low level people, retirement for people who 'did good' but outlived usefulness, or who lost their ambition or, a way to send potential rivals/risks/threats/whatever far far away
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Aug 20, 2022 09:21
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Yeah, the White Paper has a few interesting details, yeah the PRC has spelled out that one country/two systems is their max offer and that it is going to look probably something like what HK/Macao got (Taiwan would also be under the NPC and won’t get extra-ordinary constitutional protections.) Also, the paper made it clear they “won’t let the issue drag on from one generation to the next” but “violence is a last resort.” Basically, eventually there will probably be some type of blockade showdown.
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Aug 20, 2022 09:26
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Like with Hong Kong it seems like things come to an impasse because Western powers are literally incapable of making decisions or concessions beyond 'eternal status quo', thanks neoliberalism, until China does what they'd always planned to do and the locals immediately fold, with some token protests and propaganda til the CIA money dries up.
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Aug 20, 2022 10:09
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1560833315560894464?s=20&t=z65rWoRr2lplsy-8VOE3wg awesome free parking!
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Aug 20, 2022 10:16
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In the case of Taiwan, the West trapped itself by allowing the PRC to get a overwhelming monopoly of force out of a impressive combination of arrogance and ignorance. They have underestimated Chinese capabilities to the point that some poor general/admiral has to say “yeah they would crush us even with out nukes.” Part of the blame has to go to the local elite who just been screwing around when a very real showdown was coming and they frittered their leverage away for decades. Granted, I don’t know how a transition is going to happen (will the ROC make a bold move and actually try to fight China?), but the PRC is certainly indicating “sooner rather than later.”
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Aug 20, 2022 10:17
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It very well could've been later if the US hadn't hosed around and agitated the issue.
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Aug 20, 2022 13:15
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it was absolutely going to be something further down the line but the US seems pretty intent on turning it into an issue right now and try turning Taiwan into another Ukraine
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Aug 20, 2022 13:24
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1560833315560894464?s=20&t=z65rWoRr2lplsy-8VOE3wg Short walk from the shops!
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Aug 20, 2022 13:47
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It is kinda depressing seeing China repeat the same car-centric sprawling lots as the US.
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Aug 20, 2022 13:54
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A city of nine million people can have a large shopping mall with a large parking lot.
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Aug 20, 2022 13:59
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Not So Fast posted:It is kinda depressing seeing China repeat the same car-centric sprawling lots as the US. on the bright side most of those cars are electric
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Aug 20, 2022 14:14
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It'd be bad (but funny) if they send security out to make sure the resident isn't using their parking lot.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:03
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Meh, Changchun has got a subway system and is generally pretty dense.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:23
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Changchun can have a little parking lot, as a treat
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Aug 20, 2022 16:27
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unwantedplatypus posted:Changchun can have a little parking lot, as a treat Bless’em
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Aug 20, 2022 16:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It'd be bad (but funny) if they send security out to make sure the resident isn't using their parking lot. I doubt that's legal. In China you have a legal right to bring your own food and beverage to any restaurant you want, to save money. Restaurants can't kick you out for it.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:49
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ikanreed posted:I doubt that's legal. so then why go to the restaurant
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Aug 20, 2022 18:07
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ikanreed posted:I doubt that's legal. I feel like this would lead to restaurants charging people at the door for the table.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:12
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Al-Saqr posted:so then why go to the restaurant It's right there in the quote you cited. To save money. A 2 liter of sugar water for the kids is cheaper to bring from the market than paying $$$ at a restaurant. It's the same with Bavarian beer gardens. Family brings a picnic lunch for the kids, mom and dad get their beer on maybe some schweinshaxe to share because cooking it at home is laborious.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:12
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ikanreed posted:I doubt that's legal. Holy poo poo corkage fees are illegal in China?! It really is the most progressive place on earth
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Aug 20, 2022 18:14
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What is the CPC's anti-smoking policy like, if any? And how has it evolved over the last years? If anyone knows I'm very interested tia.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:22
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droll posted:It's right there in the quote you cited. To save money. A 2 liter of sugar water for the kids is cheaper to bring from the market than paying $$$ at a restaurant. ah ok that makes sense
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Aug 20, 2022 18:24
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indigi posted:obviously the genocide and even cultural genocide narratives are bullshit but given what the PRC has published in English about the deradicalization program, some level of forced labor wouldn't surprise me at all (though I very very much doubt it's an industry-wide, mass scale thing on the level of "all cotton from Xinjiang is harvested by forced labor"). the more I've read about what's going on the more it sounds like US war on drugs incarceration practices with the enormous benefit that when people are released they can speak some Mandarin and probably got valuable trade education in mainland china people know that there's a xinjiang deradicalization program and also a big effort to get all the minorities into jobs that are considered normal by mainstream, industrialized, urbanized china, and the end state that people can see (work groups of uyghurs and central asian minorities employed in new industries and throughout the country) looks very normal and like what they or their parents did at various points in time. when the west boycotts xinjiang goods because of forced labor, a lot of mainlanders misinterpret what is being said and think the west is repeating the slur, more common in the 80s and 90s, that all chinese labor is slave labor, children in sweatshops, that sort of thing, but they know that's how they came up and consider themselves to have all the normal capitalist freedom to choose how to be exploited now, and a lot of people are proud of the prosperity that was built by that hard work. and to be fair that is in fact what a lot of common people in the west do in fact think, and it obviously is insulting at face value. but the rational core of the criticism is fundamentally true: one of the things the chinese state is trying to do with its ethnic policy in the western provinces is to use a mix of coercion, nudging, and material incentives to proletarianize populations that had resisted integration into of course, the idea that american state policy is going to pressure them to change this by buying someone else's tomatoes and cotton is laughable. the sanctions are a pretext for protecting markets from the extremely strong silicon and rare earth materials production industries in xinjiang
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Aug 20, 2022 18:25
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Not So Fast posted:It is kinda depressing seeing China repeat the same car-centric sprawling lots as the US. lmao
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Aug 20, 2022 18:39
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great post
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Aug 20, 2022 18:39
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yeah good post thank you
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Aug 20, 2022 18:42
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this allusion meant posted:the basic allegation is that people are very heavy-handedly pressured into vocational training (not normal, takes place in a "camp" as in a controlled area where rule of law is even more suspended than usual), then graduate into working in a work group that takes jobs as a group and lives with on-site employer housing and amenities (normal in china). the work itself is normal, but they wouldn't have voluntarily began the process that led to them taking it if not for the heavy pressure at the beginning, so it's all in a sense coerced, and it's kinda sorta forced labor. this fine distinction is virtually always lost in the reporting, and in the political rhetoric, and it's very common on the internet to see people pointing to relatively normal aspects of chinese working conditions as evidence of forced labor how much of these working conditions are accepted by the people they're being imposed on though? wouldn't such imposition of a way of life seen as alien be defined as "forced integration" of a foreign group, such as has been done with native americans? this allusion meant posted:who had previously preferred to make a living through means like subsistence farming, mercantile activities, and various inefficient small businesses because they seemed to prefer living that way, for a variety of reasons? and with the freedom of choice taken away from them, wouldn't this naturally breed resentment? the chinese project is a bit problematic, in the sense that it is a conscious effort to impose a way of life perceived superior, unto a resisting population. radical resistance seems like an inevitable consequence
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Aug 20, 2022 19:01
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In Xinjiang especially the issue is often that isolation was a major factor, so while I'm sure many people genuinely are perfectly happy to farm and such, the 'alien culture' of the more mainstream China isn't because the average Uighur actively chose to reject it but more because they were just divorced from it. Nobody's coming in forcing these people to come to vocational training at gunpoint, the option is there and in many communities it's there for the first time.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:06
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Orange Devil posted:What is the CPC's anti-smoking policy like, if any? And how has it evolved over the last years? If anyone knows I'm very interested tia. They followed the US lead, a few years later (3-5 yrs), both for cigarette indoor ban and vaping restriction. Even though most (all?) of the vaping hardware are made in China, they still announced a pretty strict vaping law last year.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:12
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sexpig by night posted:In Xinjiang especially the issue is often that isolation was a major factor, so while I'm sure many people genuinely are perfectly happy to farm and such, the 'alien culture' of the more mainstream China isn't because the average Uighur actively chose to reject it but more because they were just divorced from it. Nobody's coming in forcing these people to come to vocational training at gunpoint, the option is there and in many communities it's there for the first time. what does this "option" look like in practice? a guy sharing out calling cards for a vocational school come visit a village?
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Aug 20, 2022 19:16
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There goes my plan to open a smokeshop called the Vape of Nanking.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:18
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Mantis42 posted:There goes my plan to open a smokeshop called the Vape of Nanking. Hm nah
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Aug 20, 2022 19:22
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lollontee posted:what does this "option" look like in practice? a guy sharing out calling cards for a vocational school come visit a village? more or less yes. Volunteers/workers at the training facility basically go to towns with contact info, pass it around, make it clear about things that may be cultural barriers like 'women are welcome and encouraged to come as well'. There's often government programs to encourage this, paying people to go to make up for lost income they may face and the like. It's a voluntary process that obviously the government would very much like many to take but there's no real force or demand to give up your lifestyle if you're happy with it.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:29
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lollontee posted:how much of these working conditions are accepted by the people they're being imposed on though? wouldn't such imposition of a way of life seen as alien be defined as "forced integration" of a foreign group, such as has been done with native americans?
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Aug 20, 2022 19:42
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love that even in this thread no one remembers the tens of thousands of Uygurs recruited by NATO to fight for Al Qaeda and their caliphate in Idlib built on the (actual) genocide of Shias and Christians
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Aug 20, 2022 19:42
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Uyghurs had been migrating for work to urban centres in Xinjiang and the rest of China for decades. It's wrong to think of rural ethnic minorities living in poverty to be their "choice". It's always a matter of access to capital. Chinese economic policy before Xi had invested into the urban centres over the rural areas, which is why it was necessary to launch that massive campaign of rural poverty alleviation. Village relocation and enormous vocational training centres were the norm throughout China. Fundamentally, there is nothing more economically marginal than being a subsistence farmer or an isolated goat herder. The only people who view that life romantically are sentimental nationalists. It's not like being a hunter-gatherer, who could theoretically live outside of a market economy, you are in the market, just in the shittest position. sexpig by night posted:In Xinjiang especially the issue is often that isolation was a major factor, so while I'm sure many people genuinely are perfectly happy to farm and such, the 'alien culture' of the more mainstream China isn't because the average Uighur actively chose to reject it but more because they were just divorced from it. Nobody's coming in forcing these people to come to vocational training at gunpoint, the option is there and in many communities it's there for the first time. The majority of Uyghurs were already urbanized people before any of these camps started getting reported. Even in the wildest CIA estimates, the amount of detainees only accounts for like 10% of the population.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:44
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this allusion meant posted:i agree that a lot of people have fair reasons to fear and resent the chinese state, and that the ethnic project in the western provinces is problematic as a whole and detestable in a few particulars. my view is that, taken broadly, these aspects of chinese policy are the worst and most unjust of all the party's actions today, by a significant margin. i also happen to think they probably fall near the median for how ethical the integration of peripheral peoples into labor markets goes worldwide, and i can't even get my country to stop contracting out prisons in a way that incentivizes them to bribe judges to lock up kids forever, so i'm not going to defend what they do, but it would be very foolish to play along with western hypocrisy on the issue well, a better alternative doesn't exist unless you come up with it, and as the spearpoint of humanity, china is responsible for coming up with that alternative. but yeah, i suppose it is more humane than most forceful societal transformations.
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Aug 20, 2022 19:47
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Throatwarbler posted:love that even in this thread no one remembers the tens of thousands of Uygurs recruited by NATO to fight for Al Qaeda and their caliphate in Idlib built on the (actual) genocide of Shias and Christians ETIM isn't on the baddy list anymore either 
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Aug 20, 2022 19:56
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:17 |
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lollontee posted:
Why do westerners always have this notion that people are naturally living some pure state of harmony before some imposition of an outside group? It's a common theme even amongst leftists and liberals. I grew up in a village and actively worked towards a life where people wouldn't have live that way anymore. One of those crack ping moments for me was working with ngos whos project was to try to "preserve the way of life" in remote villages by turning them into some roadside attraction for hikers while completely ignoring the political desires of the people (who were at the time involved in a maoist people's war ffs) Xinjiang had political aspirations and actively played a part in the civil war, chose sides and lived with the consequences (in the form of autonomy in governance which also meant lack of development in relation to the rest of China).
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Aug 20, 2022 20:00
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