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I'm getting the itch to put more money into my 2008 SV650SF after doing some more track days. The lever on the front brakes is just so mushy with the stock master cylinder. I've bled it many times over the years, and I've never managed to get a really firm lever. (And, yes I have stainless lines.) Once or twice I managed to make the brakes feel a little better after removing the individual calipers and trying to scrub the piston/cups with a soapy toothbrush until they would emerge out of the calipers in sync with each other. Often I've found that one piston would bind and the other one would come out. I suppose I could do that again, but with how little I'm riding the bike every year, and having fresh fluid it just seems like that shouldn't happen so quickly. So back to dumping money into the bike versus getting something much more modern: A friend has a set of the 4 piston Tokico SV1000 calipers that he says he has rebuilt, along with the spacer brackets to mount them to the SV650 forks. He said he'll sell them to me for $150, but I'll need to source a new set of pads, and a new set of bolts for the calipers and spacer since he did a lovely job of trying to drill them for safety wire. I will still need a new BMC for these calipers, and that looks like it's around $240-350+ for either this Nissin radial BMC that appears to be a drop in replacement, or one of these Brembo deals from STG. Though I'm not really sure what the best one to purchase for my use is, and I probably would still need the brembo reservoir and bracket. (Can I get away with the cheapest Brembo 19x18 BMC, or do I splurge for the RCS?)  I think both of these BMC options would require a new set of brake lines with a different angled banjo bolt. At least with the Nissin model, the brake light will still work. So, should I spend more money on a silly old bike, or should I save it and buy an RS660, or R9, or maybe an MT09 SP or something if one comes around? I'm primarily only doing track days since most of my other friends I used to ride on the street with have sold their bikes.
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Aug 27, 2022 08:27
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Slavvy posted:That noise is usually lean popping, have you changed pipes recently? If it's gotten much more noticable it means the bike is running leaner for whatever reason. Nope, all stock, no modifications.
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Aug 27, 2022 09:15
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SEKCobra posted:Nope, all stock, no modifications. You probably have a minor vacuum leak or some kind of problem with some emissions system somewhere, or maybe an exhaust leak. Hard to tell without seeing the bike in person unfortunately.
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Aug 27, 2022 09:27
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Slavvy posted:You probably have a minor vacuum leak or some kind of problem with some emissions system somewhere, or maybe an exhaust leak. Hard to tell without seeing the bike in person unfortunately. Hmm, alright, I'll make sure to mention it to the shop during next service. I still have a few years of warranty left, so they can deal with that for now.
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Aug 27, 2022 09:36
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MetaJew posted:So, should I spend more money on a silly old bike, or should I save it and buy an RS660, or R9, or maybe an MT09 SP or something if one comes around? I'm primarily only doing track days since most of my other friends I used to ride on the street with have sold their bikes. Gixxer swap bro. SEKCobra posted:Hmm, alright, I'll make sure to mention it to the shop during next service. I still have a few years of warranty left, so they can deal with that for now. How long do warranties last on bikes in your county / the EU, 5 years? They’re only 1 year in the US afaik, almost pointless.
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Aug 27, 2022 14:45
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Toe Rag posted:Gixxer swap bro. 2 years is mandatory, they have to fix any issue with material and manufacture, so any issues except normal wear. Honda is offering 5 years as long as you get it serviced at the dealership, which is the reason I am doing that (but only until then).
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Aug 27, 2022 15:46
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A very specific question follows, because I'm not yet ready to throw up my hands and give y'all the whole spiel necessary for effective help on a stalling problem the VanVan has been having. Is there any way in which an overtightened drive chain could lead to an engine suddenly stalling under load, sudden death followed by un-ignited engine braking with the F.I. light blinking in pain? It's happened 3 times in the last ~90 miles, before and after trail ride in which I dropped it, in a broad range of ambient conditions. The one change I made immediately before onset was tightening the chain while warm, leaving it really tight when cold.
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Aug 27, 2022 19:02
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No. If the engine is still rotating but just not igniting, the chain is not causing the stall. If your chain was so tight that it absolutely ruined the bearings in your engine and seized them, you'd still have ignition during the time it takes to go from whatever RPM to stopped, but this is not a realistic scenario. Sounds more like an electrical issue to me, i've witnessed something very similar with a moped on which the battery connections would occasionally break contact. It sorta kinda ran on just alternator power during those moments, but very inconsistently and would stall when revs (and thus voltage) dropped too low. So first check battery connections for oxidation and tightness. If that doesn't solve the problem: Hook up a meter (can be one of those cheap aliexpress digital volt meter modules, be sure to get a reference to a known voltage because they can be uncalibrated, though some have little trimmers to set it correctly) to the ECU or FI system 12v rail. Alternatively, use a little incandescent light bulb (no LED) and see if there's anything weird going on. See if the voltage remains constant, or if the problem coincides with voltage fluctuations. If it fluctuates, it can either be a short (but not bad enough to blow a fuse) or a bad connection. It's fine to use vampire connectors for this so you don't have to strip the wire and then re-isolate it again.
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Aug 27, 2022 20:33
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Toe Rag posted:Gixxer swap bro. Would've considered that a few years ago but I don't think it's as easy of a swap on the S model vs the naked.
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Aug 27, 2022 20:46
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Remy Marathe posted:A very specific question follows, because I'm not yet ready to throw up my hands and give y'all the whole spiel necessary for effective help on a stalling problem the VanVan has been having. Nope.
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Aug 27, 2022 21:31
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Thanks, I figured it was a longshot. This morning I wiggled all the wires I could get to without removing the tank with it running (battery contacts included) and remain unable to reproduce it, so next up I guess I keep riding it hoping for the fault and leaving big slow safety margins in my turns. Hope this doesn't end with me learning to use a multimeter.
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Aug 27, 2022 23:50
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Wait are you telling me you don't already have a multimeter?! You're exceedingly, lottery winningly unlikely to get out of this without one. OBD2 will never help you, only trust your probes, get a $20 one from wherever and it'll do you fine
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Aug 28, 2022 00:22
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I'm the proud owner of this little poo poo, but my grasp of electricity is nonexistent, so its uses for me thus far have been to confirm the death of1.5v batteries and to guestimate 12V battery health using the 50V range.
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Aug 28, 2022 01:39
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You're in luck because an analogue meter is much better for diagnosing intermittent issues, CKP sensors, things like that.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:15
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I am neither a mechanic nor an electrician, but I think if you understand Ohm's law and Kirchhoff's laws you will be mostly fine when it comes to using a multimeter. You can read these if you're really bored.
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Aug 28, 2022 03:16
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Slavvy posted:You're in luck because an analogue meter is much better for diagnosing intermittent issues, CKP sensors, things like that. While this is true, I hold the belief that most people should have a cheap-rear end digital multimeter. I'm talking one of those that's so cheap that the probe leads aren't even removable and there's very few settings on it. Ideally it should have DC voltage auto range, same for AC, beep for continuity plus resistance auto range and that's it. E. so do you it seems. Remy Marathe posted:I'm the proud owner of this little poo poo, but my grasp of electricity is nonexistent, so its uses for me thus far have been to confirm the death of1.5v batteries and to guestimate 12V battery health using the 50V range. If you grasp that you can use a tool to diagnose battery health by actually measuring a voltage you're halfway there. Once you figure out that the same tool can also safely check for the presence of electricity where you are unsure if there is any and also tell you whether electricity can flow through a thing where you wonder if it can actually flow (and even how much resistance the thing offers to the flow) that's really all you need to know to solve many of life's mysteries. Invalido fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Aug 28, 2022 |
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Aug 28, 2022 07:36
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After a 20 minute ride without touching the rear brake pedal, the rear rotor was still boiling hot  aligning the rear wheel did not fix my problem, but I'm glad it's aligned now.Slavvy posted:That explains why I've never had to take the pipes off! It makes no difference which way round it is anyway, I'd just leave it how it is. Tooks the pads out. The pin holding the pads was grimey, a little sticky, but not stuck, not sure if this is the culprit. The pads are gross and pitted, they look like the surface of the moon, I'm guessing they're junk?       The caliper pins slide freely, they don't seem to be getting stuck anywhere. Are those dust boots also junk? https://i.imgur.com/S17e7RM.mp4 Piston is kinda dirty, but I don't know how dirty is too dirty.  
epswing fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Aug 28, 2022 |
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Aug 28, 2022 15:18
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I can't help with your issue, but I believe that those pads are probably trash, because excessive heat from permanent braking will lead to delamination.
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Aug 28, 2022 17:29
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Everything to do with the caliper looks perfectly fine. Those pads look like they've been dragging for some time, you could likely recover them using some sand paper until they have an even dull surface but they'll never be quite the same. At this point the only possibility is you either have a hydraulic issue causing the MC to constantly be applying slight pressure (overfull fluid, jamming internals, swollen piston seals etc), a stuck caliper piston (wasn't clear from your post if you tried pushing the piston back or not), or your brake pedal is not fully backing off from the MC for whatever reason (bent lever, over adjusted stop, that kind of thing). I'd take the MC lid off and see what the fluid level and appearance is, if that checks out then try pushing the piston back in, if that checks out and it's all mechanically free on the pedal then it's MC rebuild time. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 28, 2022 |
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Aug 28, 2022 19:29
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Slavvy posted:Everything to do with the caliper looks perfectly fine. The reservoir is about half full. I pushed the piston back when taking out the pads, the level in the reservoir rose a bit, still far from full. The fluid is yellow, which is DOT3 or DOT4, right? The cap says to use DOT5. So sounds like this leaves the pedal mechanically applying force, or the MC needing a rebuild. The frustrating part is I was told by the dealership that both front/rear MCs needed to be rebuilt, in order to be issued a safety certificate (required for registering the vehicle in my province). So I paid to have them rebuild them. This was back in April. I'm going to be pissed if it turns out they didn't mount the rear wheel straight, put the axle in backwards, used the wrong brake fluid, and perhaps didn't properly rebuild the rear MC. Or hey, maybe they didn't rebuild it at all, and said they did, who knows at this point. Ugh. The mechanical action of the pedal returning, any hints on where this might occur? The lever doesn't look bent. I didn't realize there's a stop, is that to adjust the pedal height? I think I'll sand the pads and reuse them until I've fixed the dragging problem, then replace them.
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Aug 28, 2022 21:13
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There should be a stop on the pedal, check you've got a little free play before the MC starts engaging. However, my bet is on the fluid. Dot 5 is usually purple. Dot 4 in dot 5 Harley brakes causes the seals to swell up, this is a very typical Harley problem I've come across many times and, without being able to see the bike in person, imo that is almost certainly your problem right there.
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Aug 28, 2022 21:21
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Slavvy posted:There should be a stop on the pedal, check you've got a little free play before the MC starts engaging. I checked the front MC and it also contains yellow fluid (not DOT5). I noticed my front rotors are quite hot as well, even with a casual 20 minute ride. How hot should rotors be getting, normally? Going to pull the front pads and see if they look like the rear pads. To be honest, I've never taken apart a caliper and/or rebuilt a MC, I don't really know what seals you're referring to. I think I understand that there's some rubber somewhere that's now bigger than it should be. If a seal starts to fail, does that mean a seal isn't sealing, meaning there should be a leak somewhere? Or maybe that's eventually coming in the future, when things get worse. Anyways, is there anything to fix here, or this is a replacement job? I'm trying to arm myself with some knowledge, still weighing my options here. Not sure if I should bring it back to  THE STEALERSHIP and demand they re-do the work, and this time put the right brake fluid in. They're going to push back, of course, and I'm going to say... what? "You were supposed to use DOT5, this has caused the seals to swell, now the brakes are dragging constantly, and the pads have roasted themselves. Do it again and use the right brake fluid this time."I actually don't mind and am not afraid of tearing into and learning about the brakes/calipers/MC/lines/etc, except for the fact that the one resource I lack is time. Sorry for the E/N nature of this post 
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Aug 29, 2022 17:01
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epswing posted:I checked the front MC and it also contains yellow fluid (not DOT5) Your master cylinder is filled with piss, OP Worse, as you’ve discovered, it’s hot piss
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Aug 29, 2022 17:54
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epswing posted:I checked the front MC and it also contains yellow fluid (not DOT5). I noticed my front rotors are quite hot as well, even with a casual 20 minute ride. How hot should rotors be getting, normally? Going to pull the front pads and see if they look like the rear pads. How hot the front brakes get is like how long is a piece of string. I have no idea how much you use them or how recently you used them before stopping, gently caress knows. The MC (front or rear doesn't matter) is really simple. The lever operates a piston, which gets pushed back by a return spring. The piston has two hydraulic seals that do the actual work and there are one or two dust seals to keep the outside world out, those don't matter so much. The outermost hydraulic seal keeps the fluid on the inside, if that fails you get a leak. The innermost hydraulic seal is what generates the pressure when you brake. It's a tapered design that presses hard against the MC walls when the piston is pushed in, but slides back easily when it's returning. It also usually has tiny holes in it that work the same way, this allows new fluid to get sucked in past the seal to accommodate pad wear travel. When you put in the wrong fluid and everything swells up, you don't usually get leaks, you get an MC piston that doesn't want to slide freely, is difficult to bleed and has a tendency to stick on. Likewise the seal around the caliper piston(s) will swell up and cause the piston to be reluctant to move forward under pressure or return back when pressure is released. I would not go back to the dealer, that is sunk cost fallacy, I also don't see the point of arguing with them but idk that's me, I'd rather fix the problem myself than have a confrontation with morons. Rebuilding an MC is super straightforward, you just take the snap ring out of the end, pull the piston out, stretch some new seals on it, reassemble and bleed. Calipers are marginally more difficult because getting the pistons out can be a chore but it's easy with some prior planning. Alternatively just buy an MC with chrome skulls on it and fit that, it'll take half an hour.
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Aug 29, 2022 20:16
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Slavvy posted:I would not go back to the dealer, that is sunk cost fallacy, I also don't see the point of arguing with them but idk that's me, I'd rather fix the problem myself than have a confrontation with morons. Rebuilding an MC is super straightforward, you just take the snap ring out of the end, pull the piston out, stretch some new seals on it, reassemble and bleed. Calipers are marginally more difficult because getting the pistons out can be a chore but it's easy with some prior planning. Yeah, I know in my heart I'm not going to get anything out of them. But now I have to look them in the eyeballs and pay them more money to buy MC rebuild kits, along with replacement pads  The thing is, while all signs point to just having done it myself in the first place, the bike was already on the bench for a safety certification with the wheels off when they informed me it needed both MCs to be rebuilt to pass safety, so they already had me by the balls. E: Actually, question, do I need the full rebuilt kit, or maybe I can just replace the seals? The piston/spring/clip should be new as of April. epswing fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 05:42
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Yeah just the seals will do ya. Also have a look at jp cycles before spending dealer parts department money
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Aug 31, 2022 06:03
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Slavvy posted:Yeah just the seals will do ya. Ok, cool. I’m still fine tuning my judgement on when to go OEM vs aftermarket. For aftermarket I order from FortNine (support local, avoid international shipping), they usually have what I need. I have a set of these currently:  Do you know if I’ll need a set of those fancy long 90 degree snap ring pliers? I don't want to get stuck halfway through the job. 
epswing fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 12:44
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Sort of a sideways question: are there good places online to buy "scooter" batteries? My electric lawnmower was powered by a couple of sealed lead-acids that poo poo the bed this year, and searching for the battery p# brings up a lot of references to "scooter batteries". There's a brick-and-mortar battery store near my work I can check with but I always like to see what's online first. E: never mind, it's available locally Phy fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 22:11
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This is what my service manual shows to drain my coolant reserve tank I don't see how this would actually work? I would think I need to get the tank out of the frame since there's no suction to pull the fluid out. Or is there a hose inside the tank going all the way to the bottom and it will drain as long as the end of the outside/drain hose is below the tank? This is what it looks like for realsies. 
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Sep 1, 2022 21:18
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Toe Rag posted:This is what my service manual shows to drain my coolant reserve tank I believe the clue might be in the name.
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Sep 1, 2022 21:27
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Toe Rag posted:This is what my service manual shows to drain my coolant reserve tank I think if you look closely you'll find the hose does indeed fit on the very bottom of the overflow tank. If not you can use an pneumatic brake sucker; sometimes the manufacturer is just fucken lazy.
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Sep 1, 2022 22:06
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Honda calls it a "siphon hose". I think I know how it brings fluid up from the bottom of the tank.
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Sep 1, 2022 22:16
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Slavvy posted:I think if you look closely you'll find the hose does indeed fit on the very bottom of the overflow tank. If not you can use an pneumatic brake sucker; sometimes the manufacturer is just fucken lazy. Like this is the tank and it the rest is so it slots into the frame nicely? 
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Sep 1, 2022 22:25
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It basically has to have something going to the bottom of the tank or it's got no way for the cooling system to suck coolant in properly, unless the entire lower half of the tank is wasted space. I've never seen one that has a false wall but it's possible I guess? Why can't you just try it and see?
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Sep 1, 2022 22:42
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I’m scared.
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Sep 1, 2022 22:46
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Oh you're fine not like it's a suzuki or ktm. All non-pressurized expansion tanks work on the same principle that Slavvy described. Even with a pressurized expansion tank there's a hose at the very bottom.
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Sep 2, 2022 00:51
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Yeah I just wanted the second opinion so I didn't waste time walking back and forth grabbing tools. My bike is parked a few blocks away so I try to plan and bring only the tools I need which doesn't always work out! I think that hose actually is at the bottom and the rest of what you see is just for aesthetics. Behind the red plastic the tank sticks up about another 3 inches and has its own filler cap. Anyway, I changed the coolant. I'll take it on a ride tomorrow and make sure it doesn't overheat!
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Sep 2, 2022 03:38
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Toe Rag posted:coolant At work today there were only 3 bikes. A Scrambler, my Monkey and some BMW Cafe racer.  thanks for the reminder though, I have two other bikes I should probably do that on
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Sep 2, 2022 03:47
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Liquid cooling is for squares, that's an indisputable fact.
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Sep 2, 2022 04:35
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Square 4’s? Yeah they pretty much require it.
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Sep 2, 2022 13:01
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