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Arist posted:If you queue into a duty from your island and then the island server fills up while you're in the instance, what happens when you get sent back to your island? I got kicked out to the Drydocks one time, so that’s where you end up.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:43
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Jetrauben posted:That their society isn't a perfect equilibrium doesn't mean it can't sustain itself. The problem with the Final Days was arguably that it was so seemingly random and capricious there was nobody to punch (that they knew of) and they had the chance to get all Morbidly Introspective. There were correction mechanisms in place. But then the planet got clobbered by something those corrective mechanisms could not properly solve. My own speculation on this runs along the lines that Athena was only a partially solved problem by the time the Final Days rolled around, and we're going to have to deal with either the aftermath of her most terrible ideas, or Athena herself, in the present day.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:44
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Yeah, the Final Days completely blindsided them and the only solution they could find in time - and they DID find one - was profoundly traumatic in its own right. And their society did, in a sense, eventually produce a solution to the issue, albeit by a meandering and dialectical path.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:00
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Jetrauben posted:There's never really any indication that Themis and Erichthonios couldn't have handled Pandemonium with some help.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:54
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Hogama posted:Abyssos made it even plainer text that Azem was going to come deal with the situation but realized that you were going to be there, and told Themis to go without them. Chronologically speaking, even in the past, Pandaemonium takes place sometime after the teeny-tiny mishap with Kairos in Ktisis Hyperboreia - Ancients outside of Elpis have heard about Azem's weird familiar by now. I really wish I could see Azem’s reaction to learning about us. “Gee Azem that familiar you sent to Elpis was really cool, her tail and ears were very cute!" "Ah yes, the Familiar. Azem's Familiar The Familiar I sent to Elpis. My Familiar. That Familiar?" “Yes! That Familiar!" “Uhh, what was its name?"
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Aug 30, 2022 20:26
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It's been funny seeing people lament the lack of generically evil women in the game and then this patch hits and people are now lamenting how Athena seems generically evil. You can't please everyone! My issue with Athena isn't that she's generically evil, it's that she's falling into the trap where female villains have to be evil because of romantic/sexual/family issues, ideally in connection to a man. Because of the POVs we've had so far, Athena's real crime isn't being a mad scientist, it's being a Bad Wife and Bad Mom and Cold Unloving Bitch -- very tired directions to take female villains, and particularly tired and frustrating when it turns into "this woman disappointed a man, hence she is uncomplicated pure evil and the man has the right to kill her." Once again, I know this is because we're seeing her crimes from the perspective of Laha and Eric, but I'm worried this is where the character is going to be left at the end of the raid. I'm not hoping for a redemption arc or anything (especially since this fandom has demonstrated over and over that it can't handle women having redemption arcs without turning them into waifus), but I'd like her to at least get as much depth as Amon, where we see her as a human being in her own right even if she's still a complete monster.
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Aug 30, 2022 20:59
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I really wish I could see Azem’s reaction to learning about us. Venat's successor being Kronk would absolutely be on-brand. Qwertycoatl posted:JRPG villainy is a serious problem when the power level is too high yeah. In the EW MSQ we mostly hang out with four ancients, and three of them go on to cause apocalypse-level disasters. At that sort of rate it's amazing their society lasted as long as it did It probably helps to have everyone else in your society also have a similar power level. Ascians existed outside the bounds of sundered society, and statistically few people ever had the kind of power to 'deal' with them, and none permanently. The whole "trap them in auracite and blow them the gently caress up" is a very recent invention on the time scale we're talking. Warmachine fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 21:16
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Antivehicular posted:My issue with Athena isn't that she's generically evil, it's that she's falling into the trap where female villains have to be evil because of romantic/sexual/family issues, ideally in connection to a man. Because of the POVs we've had so far, Athena's real crime isn't being a mad scientist, it's being a Bad Wife and Bad Mom and Cold Unloving Bitch -- very tired directions to take female villains, and particularly tired and frustrating when it turns into "this woman disappointed a man, hence she is uncomplicated pure evil and the man has the right to kill her." Once again, I know this is because we're seeing her crimes from the perspective of Laha and Eric, but I'm worried this is where the character is going to be left at the end of the raid. I'm not hoping for a redemption arc or anything (especially since this fandom has demonstrated over and over that it can't handle women having redemption arcs without turning them into waifus), but I'd like her to at least get as much depth as Amon, where we see her as a human being in her own right even if she's still a complete monster. I can't say I feel that's the right perspective. Lahabrea killed her because she was doing mad science that was against the natural universe and god, that required sacrificing other souls in pursuit of her work. That it was their son made it personal, but what she was doing was beyond the pale in terms of a crime in ancient society. It's not because she disappointed him, at least that's not my take.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:23
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Warmachine posted:Venat's successor being Kronk would absolutely be on-brand. Ascians also seem to have been Unusually Hard To Kill compared to Ancients. Ancients were of tremendous power (relatively, there's still a gradiation of power here and a lot of their godlike might was on a societal scale rather than individual) but they were seemingly vulnerable to harm and death by violence or misfortune by default. Ascians by contrast are body hopping true immortals who can only be killed by extreme spiritual harm, and who can hide or go dormant for extended periods of time. Interesting thought. Memoriates are just doing the Trap in White Auracite Trick aren't they? And high powered voidsent are just using Ascian bodilessness to traverse the shards? Athena seems to have been behind a lot of Bad Stuff.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:43
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Jetrauben posted:Interesting thought. Memoriates are just doing the Trap in White Auracite Trick aren't they? And high powered voidsent are just using Ascian bodilessness to traverse the shards? Athena seems to have been behind a lot of Bad Stuff. Sort of but also explicitly White Auracite will only hold them for a few moments which is why you need to immediately follow it up by an aether attack instead of holding onto them until you can come up with enough aether to blast them. Unless you’re using a giant solar battery like the Crystal Tower but it’s not exactly portable. Zero is very convinced that once voidsent are crystallized, they can never get out.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:52
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Jetrauben posted:Ascians also seem to have been Unusually Hard To Kill compared to Ancients. Ancients were of tremendous power (relatively, there's still a gradiation of power here and a lot of their godlike might was on a societal scale rather than individual) but they were seemingly vulnerable to harm and death by violence or misfortune by default. Ascians by contrast are body hopping true immortals who can only be killed by extreme spiritual harm, and who can hide or go dormant for extended periods of time. So the Memoriate seems like a specific way of condensing aether into a crystal--one that most importantly works on an unwilling subject. White auracite was a material that absorbs aether particularly well and can store a lot of it for a short period of time. High powered voidsent still require an appropriately stable voidgate to move around--Mhach was in the business of making these for a while, and the Allegans hosed around with it too. I suppose you could probably carry Scarmiglione's memoria through the gate, but I don't think we've explicitly tried to move something that "aetherically dense" through a void gate.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:52
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hopeandjoy posted:Sort of but also explicitly White Auracite will only hold them for a few moments which is why you need to immediately follow it up by an aether attack instead of holding onto them until you can come up with enough aether to blast them. Unless you’re using a giant solar battery like the Crystal Tower but it’s not exactly portable. True, but voidsent are sundered life forms in an aetherically imbalanced world, rather than Ascians trained in all this body hopping nonsense, and Zero is as we know a character who actually doesn't really have much of a grounding in the deeper truths of the world. I dunno. It's just an interesting thought they keep being very internally consistent with this stuff. Warmachine posted:So the Memoriate seems like a specific way of condensing aether into a crystal--one that most importantly works on an unwilling subject. White auracite was a material that absorbs aether particularly well and can store a lot of it for a short period of time. They also supposedly (according to Encyclopedia Eorzea) tend to require a willing host after a certain level of power. Presumably corpses and baseline clones, lacking will of their own, are an edge case.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:03
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https://twitter.com/naldthals/status/1564586170381750272?s=20&t=mvk5RseNcuo49VLy0K7JGA
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Aug 30, 2022 22:19
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hopeandjoy posted:Zero is very convinced that once voidsent are crystallized, they can never get out.  The semantics are possibly important here. Zero doesn't know if voidsent can be decrystallized, or whether memoria is related to auracite. Just that the Contramemoria was fought with those who had the power of memoria, until the Flood of Darkness transformed the whole of the Thirteenth into the Void. But the further story is that those heroes became seduced by that which was contained within the auracite and became powerful voidsent themselves (Encyclopaedia Eorzea offers that Cuchulainn in the Void Ark was one of those former heroes). Not necessarily that they're one and the same, or that even if it is, that it's per se freeing the captive aether, but I believe the groundwork is being laid for those imprisoned in memoria to be released in some manner later on in the story. Perhaps as part of the process in becoming "Zeromus", perhaps so we get a Geryon fight, and/or even possibly to enlist the Archfiends' aid further on. All speculation on my part, mind, but with how much we learn about Scarmiglione and Barbariccia after defeating them (though it certainly wouldn't be the first time we did so with antagonists in XIV, usually it's not so abruptly afterwards), I would not be in the least surprised if they reappear. Hogama fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 30, 2022 23:39
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For anyone interested, one of the raid teams streaming P8 just hit phase 2! I don't think I can successfully spoiler a Twitch clip but uh, here goes: https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialGiantBulgogiGingerPower-WpgmxjRQ4aA9guDj HOT drat
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Aug 30, 2022 23:42
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FeatherFloat posted:For anyone interested, one of the raid teams streaming P8 just hit phase 2! I don't think I can successfully spoiler a Twitch clip but uh, here goes:
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Aug 30, 2022 23:43
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Is the .3/4/5 trials being the remaining fiends + boss too obvious? If I recall they outright said the remaining patch story would be all (or primarily) 13th related? Part of me wonders if 6.2 is basically the MSQ template till 7.0 (foray into the 13th, dungeon, trial, return) on one hand, I can't imagine there wont be a curve ball, on the other, I half imagine they want to give as much attention/content to the 13th as they can since I doubt it will be the setting of it's own expansion or continue to be unresolved?
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Aug 30, 2022 23:52
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well, cagnazzo and rubicante just stated their intent to go after wol as a team, so it's entirely possible we get those two as one trial, golbez in 6.4, then a total curveball based on the next expansion
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Aug 30, 2022 23:55
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Oxyclean posted:Is the .3/4/5 trials being the remaining fiends + boss too obvious? The only reason it isn't 100% is because there is a chance we double up on Fire and Water and then get Golbez and Zeromus. The bluntness of having a character named Zero in the same plot thread as Golbez means they are either going to use Zeromus somehow or use it as a curveball.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:56
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Hogama posted:Zero doesn't know if voidsent can be decrystallized, or whether memoria is related to auracite. Just that the Contramemoria was fought with those who had the power of memoria, until the Flood of Darkness transformed the whole of the Thirteenth into the Void. My guess would be that nobody knows this anymore, and quite possibly they never did, given how swiftly and completely things seem to have gone to poo poo on the Thirteenth. I'm hoping this means that Nidhana and the Alchemy Squad are going to get to do science to this.
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Aug 30, 2022 23:57
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Yeah it's actually kind of refreshing that voidsent don't know that well how they work. I kind of do hope we see more done with the Void than just basically a side story.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:01
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FeatherFloat posted:For anyone interested, one of the raid teams streaming P8 just hit phase 2! I don't think I can successfully spoiler a Twitch clip but uh, here goes: Incredible design.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:02
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FeatherFloat posted:For anyone interested, one of the raid teams streaming P8 just hit phase 2! I don't think I can successfully spoiler a Twitch clip but uh, here goes: Okay that's all well and good but what's the music?
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Aug 31, 2022 00:08
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Bruceski posted:Okay that's all well and good but what's the music? Gotcha covered! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkZ6UooqG2c
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Aug 31, 2022 00:12
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I am like 95% sure I've heard this as a battle theme in Devil May Cry
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Aug 31, 2022 00:21
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The lor book mentioned (as a "theory") that the heroes of the 13th were tricked by the ascians. The power they gave them had a downside where every time they used it to kill primals it had the side effect of absorbing a little bit of them too until you end up with someone like Cuchulainn. I don't know if they're still working off those rules or if the memoriate is even the same thing but if it is Zero is doing a whole lot of sealing.
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Aug 31, 2022 00:25
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I don't think the 6.3 trial is going to be a dual boss with both Cagnazzo and Rubicante. Just the fact that the story still hasn't actually name-dropped Rubicante yet has me feeling like he isn't going to be engaged directly just yet. He said he had a scheme in mind that would require Cagnazzo's assistance, but that doesn't necessarily mean fighting alongside him out in the open. They also usually reserve those kind of dual boss fights for raids instead of trials; even in trial fights where you had multiple important adds to deal with, they were still ultimately just adds, not bosses in and of themselves. I feel like it would undersell Cagnazzo and Rubicante both to have them show up and get trounced together in the same fight, especially after we tackled Barbariccia and Scarmiglione by themselves. I feel like we're going to get Cagnazzo by himself in 6.3, Rubicante by himself in 6.4, and then 6.5 is going to be toss up between either Golbez or Zeromus, with whichever one we don't fight as a trial becoming either a dungeon boss or a solo duty. I also kinda hope that we get a duty of some kind that's a callback to the end of IV where you have to fight all four Archfiends together in succession (possibly have them show up as an add phase in the Extreme version of the 6.5 trial, whoever that ends up being?). But this is all just speculation on my part, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if I wind up being completely wrong and they blindside us with these trials in a way we aren't expecting.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:09
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Speaking of overt FFIV refs Azdaja is definitely gonna end up as Golbez's shadow dragon, right?
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Aug 31, 2022 02:51
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Here's my guess based on ff4 knowledge. We had Scarmillion's gimmick show up; he "back attacked" us and had the undead/reanimation gimmick just tied to the ingame lore. Then we had Barb as a straight up fight. ff4 spoilers Turtle guy disguises himself as a king in ff4, so my guess is him and rubi are gonna do somesort of deception gimmick someho) So that's gonna happen I'm guessing turtle guy will end up as a solo duty because of this but if they wanna give them each time, given we have extra dungeon space to go with we might have them tossed into a dungeon. Rubi's gonna get the trial. That leaves two trials and at least one or two more dungeons. I definately think we're gonna get the 4 fiends together; they'll find a way to escape their crystals or we'll have some sort of memory fight, possibly with the echo. Golbez is most certainly going to be either the dungeon boss or a trial. That leaves what the other poster above said; Zero's gonna absorb too much stuff and trigger Dark World 2: Electric Bugaloo and become zeromus. That's gonna a trial, possibly directly after golbes when he's crystal'd It'd fit as a dungeon to trial way like that too. That would leave an entire trial and dungeon for the last patch to curveball even the ff4 fans.
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Aug 31, 2022 02:58
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Alternatively Zeromus could end up being Zero's mother.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:12
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drat they really put in a new resident evil collab the same day as DBD
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Aug 31, 2022 03:35
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i hope all those crystals zero's been cranking out are going to end up being a problem later
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Aug 31, 2022 04:15
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I'm hoping that Golbez finds a way to rev the four fiends and the 6.5 trial is all of them at once.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:41
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Voltron their Memoria together to form Geryon, Malice of the Four Archfiends.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:45
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Two of them are in convenient snack pack form now
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Aug 31, 2022 05:09
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the ascians taught them how to memorialize people right? the crystals have the same patterns on them as the ones in the library on the moon
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Aug 31, 2022 05:18
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Was it stated the Ascians taught them the technique? Cause it feels like its a bit too good of a solution to the primal problem. Also the fact it could theoretically work on an Ascian... (though perhaps like White Auracite they'd break out eventually)
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Aug 31, 2022 05:27
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Was it stated the Ascians taught them the technique? Cause it feels like its a bit too good of a solution to the primal problem. It's not really any better a solution to the primal problem than just slaying it, really, since every primal "summoning" is creating a new entity. It might be less costly in terms of effort and manpower, though, especially if the Thirteenth didn't have anyone with the Echo/traveler's charm to resist tempering. It also makes sense if it turns out to have been a stupid tech for the Ascians to hand over, though, since it was their first attempt and a huge fuckup all around, and it seems plausible that they were just throwing stuff at the wall at that point. I could buy them only realizing how dangerous giving mortals that tech was in the postmortem for "oops, we accidentally the entire shard."
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Aug 31, 2022 05:35
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Antivehicular posted:It also makes sense if it turns out to have been a stupid tech for the Ascians to hand over, though, since it was their first attempt and a huge fuckup all around, and it seems plausible that they were just throwing stuff at the wall at that point. I could buy them only realizing how dangerous giving mortals that tech was in the postmortem for "oops, we accidentally the entire shard." It's almost a shame all the Ascians are dead, because it would be REALLY funny to have one around cringing at us finding their lovely first attempt. "Oh god, it was SO DUMB, what were we even thinking?"
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Aug 31, 2022 05:42
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Antivehicular posted:It's not really any better a solution to the primal problem than just slaying it, really, since every primal "summoning" is creating a new entity. Except you're NOT slaying it. You're trapping its soul(?)/aether* in crystal. On the source the Allagans discovered that trapping primals rather than killing them would prevent the people who summoned a primal from being able to resummon it. Its never really explained how that works, especially given what we later learn about how summoning works, but it apparently does work. My speculation is that the summoners knowing their "god's" avatar is trapped and not banished/slain interferes with their comprehension of the "concept" of their god, preventing the creation magic that is summoning from working, since the concept is not clear. Afterall, how can they resummon the avatar of their one-and-only god if it already exists, trapped? * This would actually make Memoria a poor solution to Summoning in the sense that the aether the Primal has absorbed doesn't get returned to the land. At least until the Memoriates apparently discovered a way to leech the Eidolon's power out of the crystals to empower themselves. And the Thirteenth had heroes with the echo. Unukhali has some form of the Echo. Hell, Scarmiliogne might've had the echo, given one of his AoE attacks is "Cursed Echo" Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 05:47
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