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As a player who started the game relatively recently, I wish people wouldn't name mechanics after the first version of it they saw, and instead name them after the first version I saw
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Sep 1, 2022 16:57
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Enumerations is thankfully the perfect name for that anyways
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Sep 1, 2022 17:07
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a cartoon duck posted:my group started serious raiding with seat of sacrifice extreme, so every mechanic where we have to stack together to bait aoes in one spot just gets called confiteor We called the Mario Kart part Pantokrator, after that mechanic in O11S 
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Sep 1, 2022 17:09
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NA will never use macros because there are too many people who take pride in being contrary about it. I don’t have skin in the game about macros vs marker dance anyway Where I will make a distinction, and I feel this is important, is in the difference between terms like “gigabrain” or “elmo” vs terms like “mario kart” or “enums.” Stuff like elmo strat only applies to the one fight and is only relevant for as long as that fight is relevant so it’s stupid and bad, but mario kart as a method to try and solve mechanics with crops up often enough that learning what it means will give you a useful mental shorthand. Similar to how enumeration stands in for any “stack with this specific number of people” mechanic, or how people say dynamo/chariot instead of pbaoe and donut because the concept of dynamo/chariot as randomized opposites occurs a lot as a mechanic. The more you instinctively realize that fights are composed of a lot of recurring mechanical building blocks, the better a player you are
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Sep 1, 2022 17:10
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Are calling things flare markers/exas/crashdowns still okay? I think they're fairly universal?
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Sep 1, 2022 17:11
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Back in my day all we did was say "John loving Madden" and that was good enough for us 
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Sep 1, 2022 17:13
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I’ve never heard crashdown Is that supposed to proximity stuff
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Sep 1, 2022 17:14
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Dareon posted:Part of me says I'm never going to do content beyond Hard and maybe the occasional Extreme. I've done lots of old high end content unsynced for mount farming. The 70 Savages and 80 Extremes are all (varying degrees of) easy for a full group to do. I have many stolen valor mounts, but I only so that poo poo synced for Blue Mage spells.
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Sep 1, 2022 17:16
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Mario Kart is a dumb strategy name, but it made (a little) more sense when it was originally used 8 years ago. Was kinda hoping Mario Kart meant stacking all the AoEs on the MT.
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Sep 1, 2022 17:17
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we can keep mario kart but only if we can call aggro-based tank busters blue shells e: the esoteric strat names and generally hostile environment around setting up strats or making mistakes drove me away from doing hard stuff in PF years ago, but I think if I saw a PF with a macro I'd give it a shot
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Sep 1, 2022 17:29
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Macros are pretty much a must for me in the PF Pug world where everyone insists on doing a different strategy and I can't wrap my head around NA not using any sort. On another note, I'm starting to get a big overwhelmed by the island since I realized you have to do the workshop stuff to advance at a proper pace since it gives EXP and blue shells. At least the game has the handy "hey, this are the mats you need for future crafts" even though I'm just doing potion into ash into potion. And I also don't know if it's worth it to expand the crops since I need the shells for the main expansions. Still I like the island, it's a good distraction when waiting for DF
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Sep 1, 2022 17:57
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No Dignity posted:Are calling things flare markers/exas/crashdowns still okay? I think they're fairly universal? Flares and Exaflares are still used in my experience. Crashdown seems a bit specific.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:19
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:On another note, I'm starting to get a big overwhelmed by the island since I realized you have to do the workshop stuff to advance at a proper pace since it gives EXP and blue shells. At least the game has the handy "hey, this are the mats you need for future crafts" even though I'm just doing potion into ash into potion. And I also don't know if it's worth it to expand the crops since I need the shells for the main expansions. I've been doing things in the order of build buildings on open plots, upgrade buildings, pastures, and garden when possible by rank unlocks, building the mammet tools to unlock more plots, repeat. I've been giving the island like an hour per day and I'm gonna hit rank 8 today. It can seem like a lot but when you can see the path they want you to do it's not hard to follow. E: forgot to mention I haven't used the shells for a sigle thing besides expansion. If you've bought some stuff in the mean time your pace might be slower TheWorldsaStage fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 18:30
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I would just like to suggest in the realm of strats and fight gimmicks: You don't need to tell me that unless you're doing the savage/extreme stuff that dungeons/raids are comparatively simple affairs. However, I've still got a sprout next to my name and there's nothing more frustrating than asking about gimmicks or tricks to fights and getting "don't die." Part of this may be someone just not knowing the strat, but it's also kicking the can down the road for when the fights actually get tough and I have to figure out how to go from no knowledge to a ton. I'm doing fine right now, I don't want to paint a picture like I'm struggling with the easier content. But drat it would also be nice to learn a little bit as I go. I'm already overwhelmed with all the content I'm unlocking as I complete MSQ--it might be a full calendar year before I feel comfortable dipping even a toe into harder difficulty battles. Especially if peeps might drop me if I stare blankly at strat names. Thanks for the earlier explanation on mario kart, by the way. It seems super simple when someone breaks it down for you! The macro example, as I slowly deciphered it, wasn't too bad. Any visual breakdown can be helpful. That pf description, on the other hand, made my brain melt.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:33
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You don't learn the fight from a pf description. You jump into a party listed as learning from the top and, well, learn from the top. PFs don't generally have descriptions for mechanics they don't expect you to already know. These fights are too complex to be explained in a PF description or a macro. You have to just learn them the hard way. All of this nonsense is just shorthand for describing which of the multiple ways to resolve the mechanic the party is actually doing. For example, Playstation colors is as opposed to something like "dps adjust", where instead of the two red circles meeting at the red waymarks, the red tank/healer stays put and the red dps finds them. Basically, if your complaint is that the shorthand designed for people who have already solved the mech is inscrutable to people who haven't yet, well, thats not an actual problem because you'll be joining parties that don't expect that knowledge until you gain it. That's how it always is in pf.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:39
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Kerrzhe posted:raid glam This looks like kind of some official picture from SE, very cool!
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Sep 1, 2022 18:41
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cheetah7071 posted:You don't learn the fight from a pf description. You jump into a party listed as learning from the top and, well, learn from the top. PFs don't generally have descriptions for mechanics they don't expect you to already know. I guess I'm just left wondering when I'm going to find a group that's open to explaining stuff to me or are these conversations I should be having ITT or in my FC chat. Mostly venting about problems that aren't major problems yet on my part.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:45
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You can easily find those parties in PF. They'll be named something like "fresh prog" or "starting from the top" and not have mechanical alphabet soup
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Sep 1, 2022 18:46
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Macros are pretty much a must for me in the PF Pug world where everyone insists on doing a different strategy and I can't wrap my head around NA not using any sort. The island sanctuary spreadsheet game is a pile of bullshit that I think I've mostly figured out, at least well enough, that I can say todefinitely expand the field and the stable. The sooner you get to max buildings the better. I've only had 2500+ cowrie days this last week since I finished everything during the union designated weekend and that is almost entirely off the back off mats I got through the stable and the farm (though the farm was mostly to get the good feed to give to my animals, I did make good use of onion soup though).
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Sep 1, 2022 18:47
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You run into a catch-22 where fresh prog parties also don't know the common pf strats for the fight and just kinda hope that someone who does joins up with them.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:48
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A random df group probably won't at all, and it could be because: They don't have keyboards. Different language. Not paying attention. Mechanical failure doesn't matter. The boss takes less time than an explanation. The boss literally is just don't die. It's hard to say for sure because I don't know how far you are, but the vast majority of encounters can be done perfectly simply by knowing a handful of standardized mechanics markers, and staying out of orange circles. There are some gimmicks of course that don't follow a simple marker or require some other in-fight knowledge, but even in those cases they're rarely fatal and generally laying complexity after seeing it once or twice. Once you have enough experience, the fights tutorialize themselves enough. If you're doing something in party finder, and it's recent content, you just need to find a group that's open to blind learning. Most after the first couple days don't, and will expect you to have fight knowledge from a video or guide. Even if they're a blind group, they'll likely have some discussion as to what they're learning as they go, but they're probably not going to explain everything up front to someone. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 18:50
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There are multiple PF groups labeled "practice" at any given point these days, and a good half of them are listed as "blind prog," join one of those. Nobody in those parties will (or should) have any expectation that anyone else will know the mechanics in advance, and frequently a vet or two will join to explain mechanics, either in one giant text block at the start or more gradually as the fight progresses (and the party wipes to each new mechanic they see). Those parties are where you learn what each of those terms in the PF descriptions or macros actually means (either by going "oh that's what they mean by 'stack south flares north"" or if someone says "that's the 'enumeration' mechanic".
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Sep 1, 2022 18:52
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Zeruel posted:I had a goobbue take 27 lures. 17 on the first attempt, which it de-spawned as i had to go make more. Mario Kart means "you go in a circle while the boss shoots green shells at you." It's a dumb joke that is memorable once you know it and indecipherable beforehand.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:54
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PF tends to settle on nvery terse mechanic names because the character limit in a pf description is so tight
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Sep 1, 2022 18:55
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Qwertycoatl posted:For example, the "Spread" section in the topleft of the macro. There's a mechanic (the macro doesn't tell you which) will require you all to spread out to not eat poo poo. There's not really enough time once the spread markers appear for you to sort yourselves out, so it's arranged in advance. So long as everyone runs in a different direction it's fine, and that macro tells each player what direction to go. When you see people say things like "r1" or "h2" in chat at the start of a fight, that's them claiming the player labels used in that part of the macro. We just drop a marker, say "clock positions" and everyone stands in a circle around it. So easy.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:56
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A lot of fights will also build up knowledge of mechanics throughout the encounter before testing them in the back half of the fight, or even treat the normal mode as the teaching moment before testing it in higher difficulties. Easiest non-spoiler example I can come up with at the moment is Sophia. Normal mode and early Extreme will give you pretty lenient weight patterns for the scales before throwing in harder tilts in the back half of the fight, alongside needing to position yourself in a way to dodge beams that fire off at the same time.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:11
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Mordiceius posted:I had an alligator evade capture 15 times to the point I ran out of nets and before I could craft more, it despawned. 
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Sep 1, 2022 19:29
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Shinjobi posted:I guess I'm just left wondering when I'm going to find a group that's open to explaining stuff to me or are these conversations I should be having ITT or in my FC chat. The trick with PF is that most people are lying about where they're at, both people making parties as well as those joining. People are generally not immediately assholes though, you can ask what a given mechanic is and have it briefly explained. This tends to be fairly terse, a quick one-sentence thing; often you'll get it anyway after a wipe, when someone who does know will mention what went wrong (e.g. wait for AOE puddle to show before clocks = don't spread away from the mechanic position too soon). If you're confident in your ability to pick up and apply mechanics, you can watch a video guide and sneak in, particularly if a party is listed at a relatively early point in the fight. If you're not, anything tagged with a sprout or [Practice] should be fine.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:30
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Shinjobi posted:I would just like to suggest in the realm of strats and fight gimmicks: Not to sound flippant, but have you tried looking up guides to fights at all? There are very good fight guides, mostly videos, that are created within a couple days of fights being released. if you're struggling with how mechanics function in a fight, look up a guide. that doesn't mean you need to look up guides before your msq trials n dungeons, like no one really cares if you eat poo poo on a trial or dungeon as a sprout unless you're just straight up not hitting buttons. but tbh, if you're doing extremes or harder, unless you're specifically doing things blind in a party that has agreed to do things blind, you should be watching or reading a guide first.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:31
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PF follows the two mechanic rule, where parties are only actually good up to two mechanics behind what they advertise
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Sep 1, 2022 19:32
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I can confirm that all enrage/clear parties for P5S are actually Devour prog parties. I can't say I'm entirely blameless because a friend and I did one lockout of fresh prog pf and then jumped directly to clear pfs on the Fake It Til You Make It principal, but at least it wasn't the two of us consistently causing wipes. There's some really bad tanks in pf, I tell ya.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:39
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cheetah7071 posted:PF follows the two mechanic rule, where parties are only actually good up to two mechanics behind what they advertise Is this why every ex farm party I join falls apart during phase 2? It always gets me going to see people dead when nothing interesting is happening mechanically.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:39
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Yeah unfortunately it's so pervasive that sometimes all you can do is be part of the problem and join a party that's supposedly past where you are
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Sep 1, 2022 19:41
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Thundarr posted:I can confirm that all enrage/clear parties for P5S are actually Devour prog parties. This wing is just insanely crunchy on tanks. P5S starts off by mugging you for all your mitigations and it just gets worse as you go on.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:43
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My first run of EX4 someone said "people are seeing mechanics for the first time but the way you're picking them up is better than playstation parties" and I thought it was a slur against console gamers. Why would I think otherwise, we hadn't gotten to that part yet and I was going in blind (-ish, had a guildy in Discord who knew I'd been grabbed without prep time). We hit enrage three attempts later and cleared two after that.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:43
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I've been doing things in the order of build buildings on open plots, upgrade buildings, pastures, and garden when possible by rank unlocks, building the mammet tools to unlock more plots, repeat. I've been giving the island like an hour per day and I'm gonna hit rank 8 today. Failboattootoot posted:The island sanctuary spreadsheet game is a pile of bullshit that I think I've mostly figured out, at least well enough, that I can say todefinitely expand the field and the stable. The sooner you get to max buildings the better. I've only had 2500+ cowrie days this last week since I finished everything during the union designated weekend and that is almost entirely off the back off mats I got through the stable and the farm (though the farm was mostly to get the good feed to give to my animals, I did make good use of onion soup though). Thanks for the advice! I haven't wasted a single shell ever since I learned you need them for progression so no problems there. I'll expand the plots then and work on getting the mats for upgraded buildings. ...and I guess catch more animals cause the basic nets and the game saying I couldn't catch the poo poo I wanted drove me off. God, why do we need so many vines? Is Tataru trying to revive Vine?
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Sep 1, 2022 19:44
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Shinjobi posted:I would just like to suggest in the realm of strats and fight gimmicks: if ppl aren't telling you the trick to a fight, it's probably because they don't remember the trick, if there even is any. a lot of fights boil down to "prioritize adds, don't stand in the bad"
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Sep 1, 2022 19:48
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Failboattootoot posted:The island sanctuary spreadsheet game is a pile of bullshit that I think I've mostly figured out, at least well enough, that I can say todefinitely expand the field and the stable. The sooner you get to max buildings the better. I've only had 2500+ cowrie days this last week since I finished everything during the union designated weekend and that is almost entirely off the back off mats I got through the stable and the farm (though the farm was mostly to get the good feed to give to my animals, I did make good use of onion soup though). yeah basically half the farm is solely dedicated to constantly producing premium feed for your animals, the other half ( ten plots) is for factory/export purposes GiantRockFromSpace posted:Thanks for the advice! I haven't wasted a single shell ever since I learned you need them for progression so no problems there. I'll expand the plots then and work on getting the mats for upgraded buildings. honestly, i kinda wish i hadn't captured the full 20 animals as soon as possible. it feels like a burden i'm barely keeping up on.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:50
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Gnossiennes posted:Not to sound flippant, but have you tried looking up guides to fights at all? There are very good fight guides, mostly videos, that are created within a couple days of fights being released. if you're struggling with how mechanics function in a fight, look up a guide. that doesn't mean you need to look up guides before your msq trials n dungeons, like no one really cares if you eat poo poo on a trial or dungeon as a sprout unless you're just straight up not hitting buttons. I haven't been tackling the harder stuff. For the most part it's just MSQ dungeons where I'm the only person going in blind. Haven't had a ton of major problems through a lot of this, but when I do take the time to ask if there are gimmicks I should be aware of people just handwave it away. For low difficulty dungeons this isn't a huge deal. I just don't see any signs that communication is going to magically get better as I advance. Yeah, I can and do read guides. If I'm confused about a death I take in any organized fight, and no one explains how I screwed up (coin flip that this even happens), I'll look it up on my own later and figure it out. I just wish I had success asking in advance about a lot of these fights.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:51
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hazardousmouse posted:honestly, i kinda wish i hadn't captured the full 20 animals as soon as possible. it feels like a burden i'm barely keeping up on. It does sound like that, but I'd say having only 2 animals is also pretty bad  Are there any preferred animals to have for their produce? Or can I just have rare animals for funsies and name them all after NPCs so when Tataru comes back to the island she's weirded out by the alligator named Estinien.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:56
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