TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

«‹›1231 »

Humbug Scoolbus: Apr 25, 2008; The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.; Clapping Larry

Falstaff posted:

Gun porn was a big thing in RPGs around the turn of the millenium.

Years ago I had an idea for a Paranoia-like satirical RPG set in an apocalyptic mall run by an AI whose creators were long since dead, and whose primary purpose was to ensure the steady flow of commodities. Players would play tribal humans for whom the mall was all that existed, and they came up with ridiculous myths to explain the world around them. The rulebook would be bound up in crass commercialism, and I'd planned on including several pages of literal gun porn in the style of furnitureporn.com, with the guns presented in "provocative" ways.

All the guns, of course, had identical stats.

I never really got past the initial planning stages and a few concept sketches, though.

The Gun is Good...The Penis is Evil...

# ? Sep 2, 2022 01:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 20:46

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Falstaff posted:

Gun porn was a big thing in RPGs around the turn of the millenium.

Years ago I had an idea for a Paranoia-like satirical RPG set in an apocalyptic mall run by an AI whose creators were long since dead, and whose primary purpose was to ensure the steady flow of commodities. Players would play tribal humans for whom the mall was all that existed, and they came up with ridiculous myths to explain the world around them. The rulebook would be bound up in crass commercialism, and I'd planned on including several pages of literal gun porn in the style of furnitureporn.com, with the guns presented in "provocative" ways.

All the guns, of course, had identical stats.

I never really got past the initial planning stages and a few concept sketches, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG9yg1waqvA

# ? Sep 2, 2022 02:39

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Midjack posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG9yg1waqvA

I thought I knew all of Steely Dan's songs, but this one is new to me. Thanks!

# ? Sep 2, 2022 03:22

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

I'll forever have a soft spot for Call of Cthulhu's offsetting pages of guns with monster entries immune to bullets or taking at most one damage from gunfire.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 03:28

Darwinism: Jan 6, 2008

disposablewords posted:

If they are a Planet of the Apes reference as mentioned, that's a plot point from one of the old movies - some of the intelligent apes get thrust back in time to the then-present day and while at first they're public darlings and a media sensation, government figures learn about the future of Earth and the intelligent apes and plot to sterilize or kill them to prevent them from loving intelligence into the general ape population.

There's a point where devotion to making a reference really fuckin' backfires, and I think that point should really obviously be before sexually assaulting the still-animalistic versions of your people so much so that they die out

Then again, this whole entire entry.

And is it just me or is the 'power increases when they're hurt' thing a clumsy Saiyan reference?

# ? Sep 2, 2022 03:41

Rockman Reserve: Oct 2, 2007; "Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

Falstaff posted:

I thought I knew all of Steely Dan's songs, but this one is new to me. Thanks!

Same, I was like "huh how did I miss this?" and then saw it came out in 2003. "Oh, I guess that makes sense, I really only know Dan songs from like twenty years ago."

Then I realized, and crumbled into a pile of dust and ash.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 03:50

disposablewords: Sep 12, 2021

Darwinism posted:

There's a point where devotion to making a reference really fuckin' backfires, and I think that point should really obviously be before sexually assaulting the still-animalistic versions of your people so much so that they die out

Then again, this whole entire entry.

Oh it's loving weird and dumb all around. It was a bizarre plot point in the movie too.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 04:11

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

theironjef posted:

I have trouble even remembering any 90s game, no matter how rules light, that don't have a page and a half dedicated to covering fire and machine gun bursts

It�s important to know what the stats are on whatever gun Tuxedo Mask has strapped to his back.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 05:52

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Falstaff posted:

Gun porn was a big thing in RPGs around the turn of the millenium.

Years ago I had an idea for a Paranoia-like satirical RPG set in an apocalyptic mall run by an AI whose creators were long since dead, and whose primary purpose was to ensure the steady flow of commodities. Players would play tribal humans for whom the mall was all that existed, and they came up with ridiculous myths to explain the world around them. The rulebook would be bound up in crass commercialism, and I'd planned on including several pages of literal gun porn in the style of furnitureporn.com, with the guns presented in "provocative" ways.

All the guns, of course, had identical stats.

I never really got past the initial planning stages and a few concept sketches, though.

You might like the book Prisoners of Paradise by Ronald Anthony Cross, which features a bunch of post-apocalyptic tribes inhabiting the remains of a fully automated ultra-hotel spanning hundreds of floors. It's not a particularly deep or high-quality book, but it does have some really evocative moments contrasting terminal hypercapitalism against the fairly primitive state the people there are living in. One that's stuck with me is how tricking the robots into providing food�by pretending to be one of the ancient guests and finishing off an order with "put it on my tab"�has turned into more or less a magic ritual for the tribesfolk, who are too preoccupied with survival to even have an idea of money.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 10:00

Falstaff: Apr 27, 2008; I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

Roadie posted:

You might like the book Prisoners of Paradise by Ronald Anthony Cross, which features a bunch of post-apocalyptic tribes inhabiting the remains of a fully automated ultra-hotel spanning hundreds of floors. It's not a particularly deep or high-quality book, but it does have some really evocative moments contrasting terminal hypercapitalism against the fairly primitive state the people there are living in. One that's stuck with me is how tricking the robots into providing food�by pretending to be one of the ancient guests and finishing off an order with "put it on my tab"�has turned into more or less a magic ritual for the tribesfolk, who are too preoccupied with survival to even have an idea of money.

That sounds pretty close to my (long abandoned) concept in a lot of ways, thanks. I'll see if I can track it down.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 12:00

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Doesn't seem to be an ebook available, and I can't find it on the website of the company that republished it recently.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 12:37

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Oh yeah I remember d20 Call of Cthulhu with its totally incongruous gun porn section.

Like, it was deep.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 13:14

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

To be fair, every edition of CoC I've owned has had impressive weapons tables.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 14:47

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

Halloween Jack posted:

To be fair, every edition of CoC I've owned has had impressive weapons tables.

Why did Mage:The Ascension need a gun chart? Because 1993 rpgs thats why! Who cares that you're playing wizards, have some guns!

# ? Sep 2, 2022 14:56

Vox Valentine: May 31, 2013; Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

joylessdivision posted:

Why did Mage:The Ascension need a gun chart? Because 1993 rpgs thats why! Who cares that you're playing wizards, have some guns!

Because a gun is an ideology that speaks for itself and doesn't need to be kept relevant through hanging on by magickal threads. "Yes your defense of being a magical murder assassin to impose that reality upon all of us is very insightful and well-reasoned. May I offer a counter-argument."

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:06

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Halloween Jack posted:

To be fair, every edition of CoC I've owned has had impressive weapons tables.

From a meta aspect it's very thematic; you're lulled into finding security in your man-made artefacts of science and lol nope here comes a shoggoth you might as well have brought a blunt stick

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:09

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I've never been impressed with that aspect of CoC. It's not 1985; you don't need to shock the PCs into realizing that this isn't D&D. Considering how all-over-the-place the rulebook has often been, they should use the space taken up by god statblocks for something else.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:28

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Hostile V posted:

Because a gun is an ideology that speaks for itself and doesn't need to be kept relevant through hanging on by magickal threads. "Yes your defense of being a magical murder assassin to impose that reality upon all of us is very insightful and well-reasoned. May I offer a counter-argument."

Here is where I must commend Unknown Armies' commitment to the idea that while magic can be strong and powerful and scary, so is somebody with a 12-gauge and it's a lot easier to get than throwing yourself into freeway traffic to build power.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:30

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Halloween Jack posted:

I've never been impressed with that aspect of CoC. It's not 1985; you don't need to shock the PCs into realizing that this isn't D&D. Considering how all-over-the-place the rulebook has often been, they should use the space taken up by god statblocks for something else.

I didn't mean it was good I meant it was funny.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:41

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

It's definitely funny.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:43

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

CoC D20 is very funny because if you read 99.99% of the rulebook you would think that they have made investigators into massive badasses who can take on any monster and come out fine.

Then you can read the paragraph where the massive damage rules for PCs are different from other d20 games in that the threshold is 10, meaning anytime you take 10 or more damage you have to make a fort save or die

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:49

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Darwinism posted:

There's a point where devotion to making a reference really fuckin' backfires, and I think that point should really obviously be before sexually assaulting the still-animalistic versions of your people so much so that they die out

Then again, this whole entire entry.

And is it just me or is the 'power increases when they're hurt' thing a clumsy Saiyan reference?

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned people coloring the game text with stuff in their head and then blurring their interpretation with the actual text.
If you showed a person on the street that 5e fluff and asked them what happened to the original monkey squirrels. I would never expect anyone to answer "The tiny monkeys were raped and genocided by the Hadozee"

There are some things that I think are valid, like saying "Hey if you ever have ape people, because of lovely stuff like minstrel shows you gotta be really careful about inserting them in the comedic bard class art that would be 100% fine with other races."

There's grey murky stuff, and then there's completely invalid interpretations.
For example there were a few readings in this thread that required explicitly contradicting the text. Like folks saying D&D elves are white, which hasn't been the case for at least 15 if not 20+ years.

joylessdivision posted:

Why did Mage:The Ascension need a gun chart? Because 1993 rpgs thats why! Who cares that you're playing wizards, have some guns!

If Mage didn't have a gun chart how could they insert better technocracy guns like the mjolnir in later splats?

Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Sep 2, 2022

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:51

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Splicer posted:

From a meta aspect it's very thematic; you're lulled into finding security in your man-made artefacts of science and lol nope here comes a shoggoth you might as well have brought a blunt stick

I'm thinking of the investigator in The Dunwich Horror who, knowing full well the monster could only be harmed with the magic spell they were going to cast, still insisted on bringing his big game rifle

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:54

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

They stealth changed Hadozee on the D&D Beyond website, deleting some of the pictures and like 2/3 of the description (also nerfing their Glide ability)

Original text (taken from Roll20 which hasn't been updated yet)

New text

# ? Sep 2, 2022 15:59

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

dwarf74 posted:

Oh yeah I remember d20 Call of Cthulhu with its totally incongruous gun porn section.

Like, it was deep.

there was an official wotc d20 modern supplement that was just guns. just like 160 pages of "this 9mm pistol is different from this 9mm pistol in this incredibly tiny way."

# ? Sep 2, 2022 16:05

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

BattleMaster posted:

I'm thinking of the investigator in The Dunwich Horror who, knowing full well the monster could only be harmed with the magic spell they were going to cast, still insisted on bringing his big game rifle

Weirdly opposite of that bit in Discworld where Ridcully is pretty sure if something can't be brought down by a good whack from a six foot solid oak staff magic ain't gonna do much either.

Though Lovecraft stuff often makes a point even that a lot of weird aliens and monsters can be brought down fine with a gun if you get lucky. Problem is, that's not the real trouble.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 16:12

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

Piell posted:

They stealth changed Hadozee on the D&D Beyond website, deleting some of the pictures and like 2/3 of the description (also nerfing their Glide ability)

Original text (taken from Roll20 which hasn't been updated yet)

New text

Is Spelljammer in print yet? Is there a codified version?

# ? Sep 2, 2022 16:12

seaborgium: Aug 1, 2002; "Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Weirdly opposite of that bit in Discworld where Ridcully is pretty sure if something can't be brought down by a good whack from a six foot solid oak staff magic ain't gonna do much either.

Though Lovecraft stuff often makes a point even that a lot of weird aliens and monsters can be brought down fine with a gun if you get lucky. Problem is, that's not the real trouble.

That Discworld fact does come up a couple times, as Rincewind does save reality on at least one occasion and is preparing to do so a second time with just a brick in a sock.

For the Hadozee, why didn't they just make them flying squirrels? I mean, the whole description reads like a flying squirrel until you get to the picture.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 16:16

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

CitizenKeen posted:

Is Spelljammer in print yet? Is there a codified version?

Amazon says the print version came out last month and has a big box for sale that I can get by next Friday.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 16:25

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

CitizenKeen posted:

Is Spelljammer in print yet? Is there a codified version?

It's in print.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 17:03

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Yeah, this is just changing the web ad copy, not the book text.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 17:38

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

So it was confirmed by E Gygax that the incredibly racist Star Frontiers draft was legit.

Also this happened:

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565481868631449601?t=ajTDU8vbw2yXYqigE4dU4g&s=19

Oooooooooooooffffgggghhhhppffft

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:28

Eastmabl: Jan 29, 2019

"I have to go now. I have to get work done."

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:43

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

They keep getting worse, huh.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:43

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

So we have to worry about the old guard rising up and then sitting back down, breathing heavily?

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:48

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I love it. My enemies are drowning and grasping for any anchor they can reach. I can't wait for nuTSR to have their day in court.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:50

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

That Old Tree posted:

So it was confirmed by E Gygax that the incredibly racist Star Frontiers draft was legit.

Also this happened:

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565481868631449601?t=ajTDU8vbw2yXYqigE4dU4g&s=19

Oooooooooooooffffgggghhhhppffft

These people are going beyond just hate-filled and vile into full on delusion. I just don't even understand how they think the world works. Like I just want to see them spell out what they think their win condition is and how they get there.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 19:54

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Coolness Averted posted:

These people are going beyond just hate-filled and vile into full on delusion. I just don't even understand how they think the world works. Like I just want to see them spell out what they think their win condition is and how they get there.

They're incredibly stupid racists. There's another twitter thread with some choice bits about how trash Justin is, if anyone wants to admire it:

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565514028109254656

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565514075278278656

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565514097000685569

https://twitter.com/NoHateInGaming/status/1565514138155159552

No idea why tabletop RPGs draw all the dumbest hucksters possible out of the woodwork.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 20:06

piL: Sep 20, 2007; (__|\\\\); Taco Defender

Hadozee probably exist because of the maritime parlance of 'deck apes' referring to boatswain's mates onboard US naval vessels. "What if deck apes were actually apes," looks simple on its surface but is probably a really dangerous question to ask and I wouldn't recommend asking it.

Edit: and adding in a bunch of other problematic stuff without any context probably doesn't help.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 20:06

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 20:46

Eastmabl: Jan 29, 2019

I think nuTSR heard that WOTC did a racism and needed to compensate.

# ? Sep 2, 2022 20:07

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

«‹›1231 »