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Friendly old Mount Mood.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:59
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Jerusalem posted:Queen: Who gives a poo poo what it's called, a sword is a sword, break it and he'll just get a new one
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Sep 12, 2022 05:04
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What a pleasant looking place to vacation, I bet even thousands of years from when this series is set, people will be just dying to go there.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:08
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I wonder what they called mt doom back then. Mount Nice.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:21
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Jerusalem posted:What a pleasant looking place to vacation, I bet even thousands of years from when this series is set, people will be just dying to go there. Nary a shadow to be seen.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:24
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The Mountain of Joy
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Sep 12, 2022 05:36
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Mount Besos
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Sep 12, 2022 05:41
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Still snow on the mountain, later episode will have Sauron's POV showing this was where Galadriel and her Squad were in episode 1. Sneak peek from the pre-viz:
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Sep 12, 2022 05:55
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Hammerstein posted:Compare this to Villeneuve's Dune, also a blockbuster with an enormous budget, but inventive and fresh in it's style and scenery. lol
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Sep 12, 2022 06:33
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So I guess Amazon is putting spoilers in their advertisements (at least in Los Angeles), so sort of annoyed that I know this is where it's going but I can't wait for Galadriel to use the palantir.
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Sep 12, 2022 06:34
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Jerusalem posted:I have now decided that Elendil is a very literal minded man and that Al-Pharazon has been a bad influence on the Queen who now can't help but couch things dramatically, so they both left that meeting with the Queen glad her assassin knew his job and Elendil thrilled that the Queen is being such a good host AND gave him a nice sword! Elendil is a Goon.
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Sep 12, 2022 07:04
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MrMojok posted:I didn’t notice this either! It's just a regular volcano, it's fine, nothing will happen
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Sep 12, 2022 07:07
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Ynglaur posted:Does anyone else thin The Stranger is an Istari? (Yes, the year would be all wrong, they arrived on the shore, and I doubt they got the order right.) I watched episodes one and two trying to keep an open mind about it, but watching episode three with the mindset ‘this is proto-Gandalf’ drew my eye to a lot of the actor’s physicality and mannerisms, which he has very effectively appropriated from Ian McKellan. If his brief wasn’t ‘Watch the LotR trilogy: see Gandalf? You’re him, but middle aged and with amnesia’, I’d be very surprised.
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Sep 12, 2022 08:07
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Ikonoklast posted:
A petulant child and someone who is extremely entitled sound the same. Superstar Galadriel is entitled as gently caress. She's earned it for all the reasons why people think she should be both more awesome and less awesome. She reminds me of both my 4 year old and really rich people I've known. She wants to do what she wants to do and any barrier to that is prima facie untenable. "I saw the light of the two trees, who the gently caress are you to tell me anything?"
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Sep 12, 2022 08:36
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cake bunny posted:Honestly, I think the Queen Regent wants to help Galadriel out but feels she has to do it in secret or else end up like her dad, or worse. That's why she had the elf-friend convo with Elendil and specifically put him on Galadriel duty, and why he took her to the library instead of trying to actually get her back into the castle. To add some context: The Queen Regent is Miriel, daughter of the ruling king Tar-Palantir, who reigned from S.A. 3177 - S.A. 3255. At this time Numénor was already relatively hostile towards elves. But not in a way that it would come to a clash of arms, I cannot remember a single instance in the source material where late-era Numénor would have fought the elves of Middle Earth. That animosity sprang from the split of the half-elven branch at the end of the First Age when the half-elves Elros and Elrond, who were the sons of Eärendil the Mariner (who managed to sail all the way to Valinor to beg the Valar for help in the war against Morgoth) had to choose which race they want to belong to. Elros chose mankind and became the first king of Numénor, he and the Numénoreans (who came from those tribes of Men who aided the elves in the war against Morgoth during the First Age) were granted the lush and fertile island of Numénor, as well as a much longer lifespan than normal men. If I remember correctly it was something like 500 years for Elros and 350-400 years for the average Numénorean. Elrond on the other hand chose to belong to elvenkind. And everyone lived happily ever after... Initially the Numénoreans and elves were on very friendly terms. So friendly actually that Tar-Minastir, the eleventh King of Numénor, sent a great host to the aid of the elves in SA 1700, during the first war against Sauron, who was badly defeated (something that likely won't be part of the show). Even the elves from Tol Eressëa (the island near the gates to Valinor) visited Numénor on a regular basis. Fast forward to SA 2221. Over the ages the Numénoreans became jealous of the elves' immortality, thinking that Elros had made a bad choice and that they had received the short end of the stick. This was reflected in their kings and in a split in society, which was now seperated into the major faction of King's Men and the smaller faction called The Faithful (elf friends), with hostility towards the Faithful increasing over the centuries. For example, in 2899 then king Ar-Adûnakhôr banned Elvish as a language at his court, he was also the first king to take his ruling name in the language of Numénor, instead of the traditional Quenya (High Elvish). At the same time the Numénoreans beame increasingly fearful of death, having forgotten that death and "leaving the confines of the world" was supposed to be a gift by Eru (the creator god) and their once long lifespan of up to 400 years had started to become shorter and shorter, with around 200-250 years for the more recent kings. Back to the show: we are now in the age of Tar-Palantir, the first king (after a series of rulers who favored the faction of the King's Men) to remember the old ways and who regretted what Numénor had become and the alienation from the Valar and elves. But his power base was very brittle, since the major faction of King's Men did not agree with his views. So it makes sense that having an Elven leader like Galadriel suddenly appear at their shores, would be trouble. Of course, in the source material there is no word about Galadriel ever having visited Numénor (although I would not rule it out, because they were on very friendly terms for a long era). Also there was no prophecy about Galadriel coming to Numénor. Miriel telling her father: "It is here father. The moment we feared. The Elf has arrived", has no base in the lore. Anyway, we will see where it goes from here... There are charts about the lifespans of the kings of Numénor available online. They help to visualize Numénor's decline. However, it was a decline in wisdom and lifespan, not a decline in military power - the peak of which will be reached during the reign of Ar-Pharazon. Also Numénor was not just the island, they had multiple outposts and fortresses in ME from where they ruled over the "Low Men" as they called the men of Middle Earth. See Halbrand getting called a "Low Man" by the craftsmen.  Linky to source: http://tolkienbritta.blogspot.com/ (Regarding the Ar-Belzagar comment in that chart. Supposedly he had used a royal name in Quenya and in the language of Numénor, so he was technically the first. But Ar-Adûnakhôr was the first to exclusively use a Numénorean name) Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 09:26 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 09:01
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Good writeup. BTW it's Númenor (and Númenórean); the accent goes on the stressed syllable(s), if it needs differentiation from where the stress would "naturally" fall (generally the penultimate syllable).
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Sep 12, 2022 10:40
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Data Graham posted:Good writeup. I know. It's an old and bad habbit of mine to mangle it, which I can't seem to get rid of. It comes from the time when I read LOTR in German, where the people are called Númenórer and at some point it somehow stuck. Further emphasized by my regional German dialect stressing the late vocals, while Germany/German does the opposite. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 10:55
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Anyway somehow I got it into my head that the show was taking liberties with the various characters in the court (Míriel, Pharazôn, the old King) and their relationship to each other for dramatic purposes; but on rereading the details it seems they're actually following that plot fairly accurately. To the point where my going into more detail about what's to come would probably rate spoiler tags. Genuinely interested in seeing how that goes down.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:00
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"lay down his life" wait did they have to die when they passed the scepter and retired, Judge Dredd/Cleon clones style I don't remember that, they seem to have had long retirements in that chart
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Sep 12, 2022 13:12
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I always took it to mean they pass on the crown and pretty much immediately die. It seems in keeping with the idea of Death being a Gift, i.e. that Men who are in touch with Eru and understand the nature of death (the next step in their relationship with God and the beginning of their eternal life beyond Arda) would be perfectly willing, even eager to take that step, rather than spend another few decades as a retired dowager. Only kings who fear death (because they no longer understand it or have faith in it being a good thing) would cling to life after they've gone decrepit and senile. It made a big impression on me as a teenager, even if I didn't quite grok what he was getting at.
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Sep 12, 2022 13:25
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Data Graham posted:I always took it to mean they pass on the crown and pretty much immediately die. I don't think that's it, since almost all the kings prior have years After Reign, and none of the succeeding kings do.
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Sep 12, 2022 13:49
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covidstomper58 posted:What's going to happen when the rest of the caravan notices Nori's friend is bringing up the rear? I know, he'll wander up when some thing like a landslide is about to waste a few carts or wolves gather and they'll be happy to have him then. But not before someone notices and says no seriously there's a big person that's following Nori, she should be de-caravanned. The charge against Nori was "revealing the Harfoots to an outsider." If Meteor Dude is with Nori's family helping push the cart he's no longer an outsider?
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Sep 12, 2022 13:51
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Hellbore posted:I don't think that's it, since almost all the kings prior have years After Reign, and none of the succeeding kings do. Yeah that's what I don't get. Where do those After Reign numbers come from? Is that a primary-source thing?
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Sep 12, 2022 13:52
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Aragorn is described as doing the same thing in the LoTR appendices. They foresee their death coming and let go of life, starting with their government responsibilities. The ones with particularly long retirements are special cases, like Elros' son who basically decided to let his own son inherit immediately because he was already old as poo poo when Elros died at 500 or Tar-Meneldur who abdicated early in favour of his son (basically a Henry the Navigator figure) when he was contacted by the elven High King with basically a request for a defense pact against Sauron. He was an isolationist who didn't feel up to the task and was worried about turning his country into a militaristic imperial power (and well...)
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Sep 12, 2022 13:59
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Data Graham posted:Yeah that's what I don't get. Where do those After Reign numbers come from? Is that a primary-source thing? I'm not sure they all died immediately after, i think its more about being willing to relinquish the throne, and then they age and die naturally. Its been a while since I read that stuff though. Also, one thing that I always found interesting in the Numenoreans vs us IRL is they 100% actually know that their religion is real. They have met their gods either directly or indirectly, and literally live longer than other men as a result. Thats one of the things that while i respect Tolkien including his religion into his work, its a tiny bit where deep down I bristle a bit since I'm a former catholic and left for very good reasons imo. WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 14:46
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Torquemada posted:I watched episodes one and two trying to keep an open mind about it, but watching episode three with the mindset ‘this is proto-Gandalf’ drew my eye to a lot of the actor’s physicality and mannerisms, which he has very effectively appropriated from Ian McKellan. If his brief wasn’t ‘Watch the LotR trilogy: see Gandalf? You’re him, but middle aged and with amnesia’, I’d be very surprised.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:00
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Also, one thing that I always found interesting in the Numenoreans vs us IRL is they 100% actually know that their religion is real. They have met their gods either directly or indirectly, and literally live longer than other men as a result. Thats one of the things that while i respect Tolkien including his religion into his work, its a tiny bit where deep down I bristle a bit since I'm a former catholic and left for very good reasons imo. Yeah, this always got me. So much of the fabric of his universe relies on faith and trusting to Providence, i.e. just try to sneak into Mordor with some halflings instead of mounting a military assault, it's so crazy it's got to work! *faith of the heart plays* But faith is pretty facile when you have literal gods and immortal beings interacting in your lives all the time. NOT to have faith is basically denying reality and being insane. Denethor's sin was to despair even when he has a crystal ball telling him he is saved, he feeds himself a self-fulfilling prophecy just by choosing to see things in the worst possible light.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:02
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If you're starting from the belief that god is definitely irl real, then it makes perfect sense to write a fantasy world where people can stop believing in the real gods of the setting over many generations. Though to be fair, a lot of the belief-loss that Tolkien writes about isn't typically "these beings aren't real" so much as "these beings are just other beings, not gods, why are we worshipping them." Even the Noldor, living in direct contact with the Valar and their supernatural powers, end up following this line of thinking. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 15:11
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Abner Assington posted:It would just be so deflating if he ends up being Gandalf since, like… the Istari don't age? Like, how can their be a "young" Gandalf in that case, unless he fucks off/"dies" at some point between ROP and the beginning of the Third Age and comes back in Ian McKellan form? The Istari do age, albeit very slowly: Unfinished Tales posted:They first appeared in Middle-earth about the year 1000 of the Third Age, but for long they went about in simple guise, as it were of Men already old in years but hale in body, travellers and wanderers, gaining knowledge of Middle-earth and all that dwelt therein, but revealing to none their powers and purpose… Men perceived that they did not die, but remained the same (unless it were that they aged somewhat in looks), while the fathers and sons of Men passed away. Gandalf (if indeed it is Gandalf) going from "looking about 50" to "looking about 70" over the course of 5000 years or so seems fairly reasonable to me.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:17
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Abner Assington posted:It would just be so deflating if he ends up being Gandalf since, like… the Istari don't age? Like, how can their be a "young" Gandalf in that case, unless he fucks off/"dies" at some point between ROP and the beginning of the Third Age and comes back in Ian McKellan form? Morfydd Clark doesn't look like a young Cate Blanchett either. It's okay. Is it that big of a deal they picked someone who is 45 instead of 60?
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Sep 12, 2022 15:18
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Data Graham posted:Yeah, this always got me. So much of the fabric of his universe relies on faith and trusting to Providence, i.e. just try to sneak into Mordor with some halflings instead of mounting a military assault, it's so crazy it's got to work! *faith of the heart plays* IIRC the "Hobbit sneak" plan came up because a military assault was unworkable. Sort of like if North Korea decided, "gently caress it, we're invading the USA. They're a bunch of internet-arguing pussies. No way could they stop us."
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Sep 12, 2022 15:53
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Meteor Man is Sauron. We're all expected to believe he's a younger (looking) Gandalf because Sauron poses a Maiar sent to assist the Elves. He is manipulating us, the viewers, as much as anyone else he encounters.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:21
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Abner Assington posted:It would just be so deflating if he ends up being Gandalf since, like… the Istari don't age? Like, how can their be a "young" Gandalf in that case, unless he fucks off/"dies" at some point between ROP and the beginning of the Third Age and comes back in Ian McKellan form? Ian McKellen is very old now, so they’d have to overcome a massive amount of hurdles to have him physically in the show, even if he was willing (think DeNiro in The Irishman but another ten years older, jesus). I’d imagine there’d also be some legal bullshit to overcome to even have him do it, since ‘Ian McKellan Gandalf’ is probably owned by New Line or whoever. I honestly don’t know where my goodwill towards this show is coming from, because I can see its difficulties and problems, and I’m by nature a nitpicky nerdy rear end in a top hat about things like this usually. I know all the source material pretty well too, but somehow I’m just ok with being along for the ride at the moment.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:29
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Perhaps your eyes are cheated by some spell
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Sep 12, 2022 16:30
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Noam Chomsky posted:Meteor Man is Sauron. I just can't see it. I can't see Sauron eat snails, shell and all or loving up and burning the star map because he's somehow forgotten what fire is. I cannot see him acting like a fool or deliberately being a doofus. Here's a fun, hosed up guess: Sauron is actually disguised as Celebrimbor, having killed the real one and taken his place.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw0Z8dkmnn8 Hyenas and Chihuahuas aside, I think the biggest factor in play here is the natural sunlight of the two towers warg scene. The moment where the warg looks up and stares at gimli has the sun flickering through the tuft of its mane and it really sells that this is an actual creature interacting in a real environment.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:40
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I watched the first 3 episodes, and I'm surprised at how many people act like the only way to not like this show is nitpick it. I read the books 15 years ago and don't really care that much about the lore, but I love the movies of course. This show so far is mostly a remake of the movies. It's a lot like The Force Awakens, where they have analogous characters to the original cast doing things that the original characters did. I just about lost it when they even introduced a sword broken in the same way Aragorn's was. The writing is just not good, no real good dialogue, just kinda exposition type generic stuff most of the time. Almost all the scenes seem like placeholder things taken from somewhere else. Not really sure what the reason the audience should keep watching outside of "this is something you like already." The main thrust of the show is Galadriel hunting for Sauron, someone we know what happens to and that we know she doesn't defeat and isn't killed by. Exciting stuff. No idea why it couldn't be about Galadriel dealing with a problem we don't know the resolution for. Maybe also could have kept the scope more limited early on and introduced more characters later or started them closer together. This show cuts between locations so frequently it's often disorienting. The only character I like so far is the black elf, he seems cool and relate to being horny for a hot nurse. She looks like someone from 2022 though, as do half the cast and I found it distracting. The costumes and wigs are half good. The sharp super digital saturated visuals do no favors to the compositing and makeup. There's no style to the cinematography, everything is shot in the most boring way possible. It looks expensive I guess but it doesn't look like a movie or even good TV. Didn't expect much but I never figured it'd be in line with the many remakes/reboots we keep getting. I guess I understand the financial reason but seems creatively inert. Arc Hammer posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw0Z8dkmnn8 Peter Jackson and team are just really good at integrating computer stuff into real footage. It involves a lot of preproduction, lighting and intangible stuff like artistry and taste. Guillermo del Toro similarly just really nails that kinda stuff a lot, even on smaller budgets. This show does not have that level of talent behind that camera. Also the new warg wiggles around way too much. Mullitt fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 16:50
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The Stranger is definitely not Sauron. Sauron spending time and getting to know proto-hobbits creates some big problems for LoTR. Human king is absolutely going to get ring wraithed.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:02
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Who is the worst being from the Legendarium it could be
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Sep 12, 2022 17:05
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zoux posted:Who is the worst being from the Legendarium it could be Eru
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Sep 12, 2022 17:08
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