Lord Bezos and the Rings of Power: $250 million for the Appendices

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Lord Bezos and the Rings of Power: $250 million for the Appendices

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Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

covidstomper58 posted:

How many balrogs are there is directly related to how many dragons are there. Because both are equally rad.

Dragons are a little more rad because they definitely have wings and they can talk so fans can get a mini-Sherlock reunion. The last they'll see until Dr. Strange pisses off the CIA in the MCU.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 03:50

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:42

2nd Amendment: Jun 9, 2022; by Pragmatica

covidstomper58 posted:

How many balrogs are there is directly related to how many dragons are there. Because both are equally rad.

I'm always clear about my position and then ask questions around them. You are asking questions around and undisclosed position.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 03:55

covidstomper58: Nov 8, 2020

Tuor could and he was so much better than his cursed cousin Turin that could only kill like one dragon. And because he was so good at killing balrogs Ulmo had a suit of armor made for him and told him, hey you're alright, I'm going to give you all the stuff to get into the last great Elf kingdom and save the world for it.

covidstomper58 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 03:58

2nd Amendment: Jun 9, 2022; by Pragmatica

Crazy swan armor is extremely anime.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:04

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Now I want to know how many Balrogs and dragons there are.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:06

Everyone: Sep 6, 2019; by sebmojo

withak posted:

Now I want to know how many Balrogs and dragons there are.

As of September 2021, there are 0 Balrogs and something like 3380 dragons. Komodo dragons, anyway.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:21

covidstomper58: Nov 8, 2020

Everyone posted:

As of September 2021, there are 0 Balrogs and something like 3380 dragons. Komodo dragons, anyway.

Always underestimating the number of Balrogs.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:23

2nd Amendment: Jun 9, 2022; by Pragmatica

Everyone posted:

As of September 2021, there are 0 Balrogs and something like 3380 dragons. Komodo dragons, anyway.

Only true if you think the book of Enoch is true.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:26

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

Balrog deniers ITT

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:26

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

It didn't come up in the films for some reason, but while Frodo etc were gone from The Shire, the other Hobbits suddenly felt compelled to meet in the party field. They all sat around, and the Thain declared,"Stranger Bigfriend, your ruin was smote upon the mountain. We wait for you."

All the other Hobbits repeated,"We wait for you," and then, slightly befuddled but feeling pleasantly sad, they all went home to smoke their pipes and drink their ale.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:40

covidstomper58: Nov 8, 2020

Jerusalem posted:

It didn't come up in the films for some reason, but while Frodo etc were gone from The Shire, the other Hobbits suddenly felt compelled to meet in the party field. They all sat around, and the Thain declared,"Stranger Bigfriend, your ruin was smote upon the mountain. We wait for you."

All the other Hobbits repeated,"We wait for you," and then, slightly befuddled but feeling pleasantly sad, they all went home to smoke their pipes and drink their ale.

They waited for Bilbo a long while, then they moved into his house and sold his poo poo. But since he had all that dragon gold he could buy it all back.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:48

AccountSupervisor: Aug 3, 2004; I am greatful for my loop pedal

I think when talking about contradictions it would mostly mean things cannot happen that make it so that certain events or points of history do not happen at all in any form. But this is is all a guess.

IE, they can change when Galadriel meets and weds Celeborn but they cannot change that they ever meet and we know they dont. Or that they meet and he dies. Basically anything that would stipulate in the TA they are not married. Maybe he never shows up in this at all but they do not ever say plainly Galadriel never meets Celeborn, the omission or altering of when that happens isnt an absolute contradiction to the fact they do meet eventually.

Its weird for sure. I do think Celeborn will come in eventually but its probably irrelevant to the events of the first season so they wouldnt waste time on it.

I guess the conceit is similar to the idea of history and that perspective on Tolkien as an interpretor, that the details may change but the key events cannot. They are sort of applying that same idea to this writers room.

Id assume something like Gandalf or any member of the Council besides the Blue Wizards arriving in SA is too much of a contradiction to the established history of them being specifically sent by the Valar in the TA and the estate would ennact their veto power over that change.....unless they do thing where he is "reset" at the end of the SA or just make him an Istari who is Olorin all but in name.

AccountSupervisor fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:53

Robotnik Nudes: Jul 8, 2013

This show fuckin sucks. Expensive trash. It�s so vapid and dull that it�s got people coming up with painfully dumb theories like �is the meteor guy the balrog?� You have to make yourself medically stupid to even think of anything to discuss.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 04:58

Funky See Funky Do: Aug 20, 2013; STILL TRYING HARD

AccountSupervisor posted:

I think when talking about contradictions it would mostly mean things cannot happen that make it so that certain events or points of history do not happen at all in any form. But this is is all a guess.

IE, they can change when Galadriel meets and weds Celeborn but they cannot change that they ever meet and we know they dont. Or that they meet and he dies. Basically anything that would stipulate in the TA they are not married. Maybe he never shows up in this at all but they do not ever say plainly Galadriel never meets Celeborn, the omission or altering of when that happens isnt an absolute contradiction to the fact they do meet eventually.

Its weird for sure. I do think Celeborn will come in eventually but its probably irrelevant to the events of the first season so they wouldnt waste time on it.

I guess the conceit is similar to the idea of history and that perspective on Tolkien as an interpretor, that the details may change but the key events cannot. They are sort of applying that same idea to this writers room.

Id assume something like Gandalf or any member of the Council besides the Blue Wizards arriving in SA is too much of a contradiction to the established history of them being specifically sent by the Valar in the TA and the estate would ennact their veto power over that change.....unless they do thing where he is "reset" at the end of the SA or just make him an Istari who is Olorin all but in name.

How is Gandalf coming the middle earth in the second age less of a contradiction to Galadriel not meeting Celeborn either in Valinor during the age of the trees or in Doriath during the first age? Or Celebrian not being born near the beginning of the second age?

By the same logic Gandalf comes to middle eventually so why not in the second age?

Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:01

covidstomper58: Nov 8, 2020

Funky See Funky Do posted:

How is Gandalf coming the middle earth in the second age less of a contradiction to Galadriel meeting Celeborn either in Valinor during the age of the trees or in Doriath during the first age? Or Celebrian being born near the beginning of the second age?

By the same logic Gandalf comes to middle eventually so why not in the second age?

Why does Gandalf has to be first? Why can't it be Radaghast? He could show up in a bottom meteor and just shoot up out of the ground so rabbits meet him instead, and also he got here 1000 years before Gandalf, so he's really smart by now and can teach Gandalf a few spells like not eating shells and lvl 3 Fireball. And talking.

covidstomper58 fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:05

Funky See Funky Do: Aug 20, 2013; STILL TRYING HARD

covidstomper58 posted:

Why does Gandalf has to be first? Why can't it be Radaghast? He could show up in a bottom meteor and just shoot up out of the ground so rabbits meet him instead, and also he got here 1000 years before Gandalf, so he's really smart by now and can teach Gandalf a few spells like not eating shells and lvl 3 Fireball.

Because we don't think they have the rights to the blue wizards. It's the exact same deal with Radagast or Saruman. It just seems more likely that if they're going to put a wizard in the second age they'd pick the most famous one.

We're talking about this in the context of that interview where someone said they're not allowed to contradict anything Tolkien wrote as part of the deal they made for the rights. Tolkien lays out a very specific timeframe for when the wizards arrive so any of those three being in the second age contradicts what was written.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:09

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

https://twitter.com/thehiggybaby/status/1569459472065777665?s=46&t=zCLdv4BnHklLVIS_gaIxqg

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:09

Eiba: Jul 26, 2007

I think a new character would be cool and exciting.

I think a blue wizard would be really neat.

I think some sort of previous incarnation of Gandalf would be a nice compromise with the lore nerds.

I think a Balrog could be interesting from some perspectives.

I'd have some questions if it was straight up Sauron.

But if you think it is unacceptable for it to be straight up original Gandalf no twists, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

If you just want to cling to Tolkien's notes and rage at this desecration of a show, carry on. If you want to try and enjoy what's being presented for what it is I'd recommend trying to have more of an open mind.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:21

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Maybe there can be another thread for people to be Furious About Lore.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:41

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

AccountSupervisor posted:

For me it just completely changes the entire perspective of Gandalf in the TA if he was around for the events of the SA and remembers them or aided in them at all. That is not a minor change, thats a monumental shift in character to me. If Gandalf witnesses the War of the Last Alliance it changes so much of his characterization in the events of The Hobbit and LOTR, I just dont see the way Gandalf acts towards anything or anyone in the books making much sense if he was there for the first conflict. Like what is the point of Saruman in the TA then?

If its implied he is the same Maia and he returns to spirit form and is then sent back as Gandalf with a wisdom gleamed from those events similar to his return in LOTR, sure.

Again, you can do almost anything you want with a Baby Istari and more if he just specifically not literally Gandalf. The writers are making it harder on themselves otherwise.

I'm not sure how Gandalf being around for the earlier wars or through the entire third age changes at all how he behaves in the lord of the rings.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:46

Chemtrailologist: Jul 8, 2007

withak posted:

Maybe there can be another thread for people to be Furious About Lore.

Doesn't sound like anyone here is angry about possible Gandalf, just pointing out reasons why it wouldn't work.

The lore isn't important to me, but I enjoy reading people posting about it.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:50

Funky See Funky Do: Aug 20, 2013; STILL TRYING HARD

withak posted:

Maybe there can be another thread for people to be Furious About Lore.

I suggested that before but I don't think there's much interest. Sorry if anything I've posted has come across hostile or furious. I'm not and I don't mean it to. I just like talking about this stuff and it's been a long time since I've had an outlet for the insane amount of Tolkien I absorbed as a teenager.

Honestly there's not that much else to talk about IMO. Not much has happened in the show so far and it's not very good. Speculating about where they're going with the story based on what we know about the books is pretty much all there is.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 05:55

Robotnik Nudes: Jul 8, 2013

These elves aren�t very durable. Typical Amazon Essentials slipshod quality.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 06:00

fischtick: Jul 9, 2001; CORGO, THE DESTROYER; Fun Shoe

The stranger is going to morph into Richard Belzer and throw the Tolkien estate contract into mount doom. Jefff Bezos reveals he has purchased the rights to St. Elsewhere and thus all media traceable back to Tommy Westphal.

All the other fireballs contain people who eventually morph into the cast of [i] Homicide: Life on the Street[/ i].

# ? Sep 13, 2022 06:03

2nd Amendment: Jun 9, 2022; by Pragmatica

withak posted:

Maybe there can be another thread for people to be Furious About Lore.

I think people are just having fun.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 06:44

Eiba: Jul 26, 2007

Chemtrailologist posted:

Doesn't sound like anyone here is angry about possible Gandalf, just pointing out reasons why it wouldn't work.

The lore isn't important to me, but I enjoy reading people posting about it.

There's definitely a type of person for whom "good" is defined as "faithful to Tolkien's notes."

When you realize that's actually just a semantic issue this thread becomes a lot more readable. If someone is solely judging this show on how "accurate" it is, there's not a lot to substantively engage with.

Every now and then misunderstandings are bound to occur, but most people here seem like they're posting in good faith. There's just a lot of talking past each other.

For what it's worth, even though I've been fairly disrespectful to it at times, the deep lore perspective has given me some interesting insights into the world this show was inspired by, so that's cool.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 06:47

YaketySass: Jan 15, 2019; Blind Idiot Dog

Gresh posted:

https://twitter.com/tolkienprof/status/1569434923160813569

I think hes gonna be very disappointed

I was of two minds at first but now I have zero confidence that they have the self-restraint to not do the most obvious fanservice and have Meteor Man be Gandalf. He's one of the most beloved aspects of the movies, they have the rights, obviously he's gonna show up first episode.

Also lol of course Durin's Bane's will eventually awaken, what else is there for the Dwarves storyline?

Halbrand's the only one of the three where I'm still a bit unsure.

YaketySass fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 09:44

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

It's Bladorthin

# ? Sep 13, 2022 10:23

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

totally thought that lady human in the labor camp was gonna I Am No Man that warg

nope lol

# ? Sep 13, 2022 11:05

Xibanya: Sep 17, 2012; Clever Betty

I rewatched all three episodes and seeing them all together, caught that there�s definitely deliberate framing of Halbrand and Galadriel as romantic interests. I had previously read an interview with the actors for Halbrand and Galadriel in which they both describe themselves as like Beren and Luthien. It was ambiguously worded as to whether or not they meant irl or their characters but if the actors aren�t dating irl then that strongly implies their characters get involved. Since I�m enjoying the show so far at this point just out of the incredible meltdowns it would provoke in lore purists I really hope Halbrand is Sauron and that he and Galadriel hate gently caress.

In this hypothetical scenario Celeborn can watch. I do hold the source material in high regard after all

# ? Sep 13, 2022 11:27

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Hammerstein posted:

I agree a lot with everything you said.

Especially younger readers see pictures like the one of Morgoth that was earlier posted and the "marvel brain" (cause that's the fantasy cinema style of the last 20+ years) springs into action, telling them that Morgoth is Galactus, or that the battle between Fingolfin and Morgoth is akin to Hulk vs Surtur. There is nothing wrong with adapting older material to the capabilities of modern cinema, but following the style of Hollywood's worn out and generic superhero franchises is not really a sign of creativity. This is not only true for film adaptations of literature, but often enough happens to older movies too: remember the abominations that newer versions of classics like Ben Hur or Rollerball were. Or how Star Wars went from the iconic Luke vs Vader duel in RotJ to the flippy, acrobatics of the latest movies within just a few decades.

A few pages ago someone came along and posted something like "But how does someone kill Ancalagon without "Marvel brained" super powers?"........well, in the same way how a human, whose only skill was being good at archery, killed Smaug. And Bard the Bowman did not even come from some legendary lineage. When it comes to the Morgoth picture: Ted Nasmith, one of the great Middle Earth illustrators, came up with a much more reasonable scale:

Morgoth at the time of that battle had already invested a lot of his essence (or soul) into the creation of his orc armies, trolls, dragons like Glaurung, changing the landscape and other things. Which gave him greater control over his domain, but weakened his physical form, enabling Fingolfin to wound him before his death. But as mentioned in previous posts, heroes like Fingolfin are unique and one of a kind and he was likely the greatest elven lord when it came to pure martial prowess. Feanor was the greater craftsman. Galadriel was wiser with greater foresight and so on. The same applies to the Valar and Maiar, they all have different powers.

Tolkien's world borrows heavily from ancient stories and myths. And when reading these stories should we ask: But how did exactly did Paris manage to hit Achilles in the heel, did he have Hawkeye's skills? How did Achilles die from a simple arrow to the heel? Was Hercules stronger than Captain Marvel? Did Perseus dodge the Gorgon's gaze with 30 backflips? How did Sigurd slay Fafnir without Iron Man's armor? Can an elf jump higher than Darth Maul?

Greater story telling, better acting and more sensitivity for the source material might create a more rewarding series, than applying the rules of americanized action cinema to a work that is deeply rooted in European folklore, legend and mythology.

look did Fingolfin fatroll or not

also where do I get his set

# ? Sep 13, 2022 11:47

bagrada: Aug 4, 2007; The Demogorgon is tired of your silly human bickering!

Alan Smithee posted:

look did Fingolfin fatroll or not

also where do I get his set

He abused pre-nerf hoarfrost stomp, morgoth never got a swing in.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 13:28

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

covidstomper58 posted:

Was no one else shouting at the screen "Look out Halbrand! That's Rapeface Cossutius!"?

Also Halbrand sounds suspiciously like Aragorn's bestie Halbarad, I guess he's going to become friends with Anarion.

yeah lol

from there I noticed Crassus as elf warden dude. Guess New Zealand is like the Valinor of Mediocre-Earth

# ? Sep 13, 2022 13:33

Open Source Idiom: Jan 4, 2013

Rw: man who fell to earth, the very first words on this show are Galadriel ominously intoning "nothing is evil in the beginning", which to me makes the ultimate arc of the dude pretty clear tbh.

Alan Smithee posted:

yeah lol

from there I noticed Crassus as elf warden dude. Guess New Zealand is like the Valinor of Mediocre-Earth

Yeah Naevia too.

Which makes sense, as this show is basically Spartacus / Xena (not a bad thing IMO).

Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Sep 13, 2022

# ? Sep 13, 2022 13:52

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Eiba posted:

It occurs to me that some executive must have seen how popular baby Yoda was and said they needed a baby Gandalf.

And then someone sensible actually made that concept into a good character.

I know this is definitely not what happened, but I still like how they're apparently doing baby Gandalf in this show.

Hi I�m young Gandalf

Teach me about this�. love

# ? Sep 13, 2022 14:24

Ubersandwich: Jun 1, 2003

I feel like if the Stranger is Gandalf that'd be something George Lucas would do. The Harfoots' storyline ends with them marching into a idyllic location for the Shire, begging the work of digging out Hobbit holes while he pulls out a wide brimmed grey hat, blows some smoke rings and Ian McKellen laughs.

".. and THAT'S how he came to have an affinity for Hobbits."

# ? Sep 13, 2022 15:03

YaketySass: Jan 15, 2019; Blind Idiot Dog

one of the Harfoot girls will be Smeagol's grandmother

# ? Sep 13, 2022 15:10

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

poetry in motion

# ? Sep 13, 2022 15:15

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

withak posted:

Now I want to know how many Balrogs and dragons there are.

In a letter, Tolkien said that there were between three and seven balrogs

# ? Sep 13, 2022 15:22

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 18:42

Ginette Reno: Nov 18, 2006; How Doers get more done; Fun Shoe

Eiba posted:

There's definitely a type of person for whom "good" is defined as "faithful to Tolkien's notes."

When you realize that's actually just a semantic issue this thread becomes a lot more readable. If someone is solely judging this show on how "accurate" it is, there's not a lot to substantively engage with.

Every now and then misunderstandings are bound to occur, but most people here seem like they're posting in good faith. There's just a lot of talking past each other.

For what it's worth, even though I've been fairly disrespectful to it at times, the deep lore perspective has given me some interesting insights into the world this show was inspired by, so that's cool.

For me "good" is less concerned with being completely faithful to Tolkien's notes and more being faithful with his tone. I'm fine with them taking liberties as long as the characters still feel like Tolkien characters. For the most part they do so far.

# ? Sep 13, 2022 15:28

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Lord Bezos and the Rings of Power: $250 million for the Appendices

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