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FlamingLiberal posted:Those steps in front of the captain’s chair were also new right Orville should do the Family Guy "groaning for five minutes after falling down the stairs" bit with Mercer. Send him headlong down the unexpected Captain's Stoop after a refit, everyone awkwardly tries to get him to go to sickbay and he's gasping on the floor like "I'm ok, just GASP just had thewindknockedoutta COUGH"
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Sep 12, 2022 13:24
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Arivia posted:since it was announced as part of "star trek day" i wonder if the new nick meyer ceti alpha audioplays are gonna be canon It was a bit of a slap to Meyer to take it from a filmed miniseries to audio, but he seems excited to expand it. It can be longer and won't have the budget constraints. It makes casting a cinch too, easier to get soundalike actors. It makes me wonder if someone at Paramount didn't find out about the hundreds of Doctor Who audios with original cast members that Big Finish does and say "why aren't we doing that?" If this is a test run for Star Trek audios covering all the time periods and series and can feature original actors then huzzah. Captain Sulu and Worf series, anyone? I'm down. And if well done, I would pay for them like I do Big Finish.
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Sep 12, 2022 13:51
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Banana Canada posted:Why didn't Starfleet station Betazoids at every asset or location of high value to act as Founder-detectors? Too busy lying around naked with their sacred urns and holy gongs
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Sep 12, 2022 21:28
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So are the Trill Federation members or are they just a species that occasionally joins Starfleet?
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Sep 12, 2022 21:34
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Arglebargle III posted:So are the Trill Federation members or are they just a species that occasionally joins Starfleet?
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Sep 12, 2022 22:15
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You know these Starfleet types really need to start securing their cargo. Just stacking drums on top of each other is not working out.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:29
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Arglebargle III posted:You know these Starfleet types really need to start securing their cargo. Just stacking drums on top of each other is not working out. It's okay, they're all empty. Except for this one blue drum up there...
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Sep 12, 2022 23:54
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Pretty great how the Federation can cure addiction with some flashing lights. That would have come in real handy for a few other episodes.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:32
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Banana Canada posted:Why didn't Starfleet station Betazoids at every asset or location of high value to act as Founder-detectors? What's Troi's success rate on shapeshifting aliens?
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Sep 13, 2022 01:37
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Well her mom married one
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Sep 13, 2022 01:57
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Man Picard and Data were not adequately prepared for this deep cover assignment in Space Moscow.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:31
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Arglebargle III posted:Pretty great how the Federation can cure addiction with some flashing lights. That would have come in real handy for a few other episodes. The flashing light success rate is...mixed.  
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Sep 13, 2022 02:32
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Well I've finished Star Trek TNG and I guess I'm moving on to Voyager. Honestly the more I watch it the more I actually kind of like Voyager. I dunno I don't mind it at least.
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Sep 13, 2022 03:20
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Voyager's biggest problem wasn't that it was actively bad it was just 7 seasons of mostly 6 out of 10 bland episodes written by a writers room that had literally come off of doing the exact same kind of show for 7 seasons.
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Sep 13, 2022 04:17
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Actual Satan posted:A drive that can explore new reaches of the galaxy is a great concept. But I don't think discovery has used it for that even once on purpose. I kind of hate this poo poo as a concept because the writers actually need to justify why "new reaches of the galaxy" matters. It's the same problem Voyager had where over there is the same as over here but with different foreheads, so what's the point? imo DS9 had the only really fresh take on exploration across the whole franchise by making the gamma quad this inherently risky place where you couldn't spend much time and you always had to come running back to your home base afterward, but even then they didn't really make use of the concept as much as they could have
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Sep 13, 2022 05:55
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8one6 posted:Voyager's biggest problem wasn't that it was actively bad it was just 7 seasons of mostly 6 out of 10 bland episodes written by a writers room that had literally come off of doing the exact same kind of show for 7 seasons. Yeah, a show that could have easily been DS9 2.0 under the right leadership was mandated to be TNG 2.0 instead and largely just kind of coasted for much of it's run, punctuated by some utterly amazing episodes here and there like Distant Origin, Timeless, Year of Hell, Equinox, and Dark Frontier. Hollismason posted:Well I've finished Star Trek TNG and I guess I'm moving on to Voyager. Honestly the more I watch it the more I actually kind of like Voyager. I dunno I don't mind it at least. This is sort of been a recurring trend in the streaming era. People who watched Voyager when it was running on UPN have this lingering bagaboo about it, but folks who've come late to it on streaming services have a more open and positive outlook on it. Same with Enterprise. It's kind of why I contend that in 20 years, people are going to come to appreciate Discovery and Picard, because by then the heat around them will have died down like it did for Enterprise and Voyager and they'll no longer be "the worst Trek ever", they'll just be "Star Trek".
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Sep 13, 2022 06:43
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See I've been doing a slow rewatch of Voyager trying to find the few diamonds amidst the rough and I'm still just finding it intolerably bland and pointless for the most part. It is just a very bad show written on autopilot by a room of burnt out hacks, Robert Beltran tried to get released from his contract for a reason!
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Sep 13, 2022 08:19
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, a show that could have easily been DS9 2.0 under the right leadership was mandated to be TNG 2.0 instead and largely just kind of coasted for much of it's run, punctuated by some utterly amazing episodes here and there like Distant Origin, Timeless, Year of Hell, Equinox, and Dark Frontier. Voyager made a young me realize it was ok to not like things just because you liked a similar thing and I will never like it, or any of this new stuff. Well, snw is ok.
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Sep 13, 2022 08:59
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Paradoxish posted:I kind of hate this poo poo as a concept because the writers actually need to justify why "new reaches of the galaxy" matters. It's the same problem Voyager had where over there is the same as over here but with different foreheads, so what's the point? Yeah Voyager might have been better served if the ship was stranded in the Gamma Quadrant instead so it could spend maybe what, three seasons dodging Jem Hadar pursuit, and have the latter three or four seasons be renewed exploration and diplomatic contact with species that are now free of Dominion control.
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Sep 13, 2022 09:00
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I feel like we're getting to the heart of the matter of why Voyager got so much guff at the time, which is that it wasn't DS9 I mean Voyager's had deserved reputation renaissance to be sure. But man the first couple seasons have some real issues that wear on a soul. Like every time they needed to pad out an episode they pulled out the 'Neelix is a jealous controlling gently caress' subplot which just drags the whole thing down. And the Kazon were just lame antagonists. The source of conflict is legitimate, I can see how they thought it would work on paper, but in practice it was just boooriiinngg. Even in Season 2 they had moved to mostly 'Voyager vs Seska' rather than Kazon per se cuz the Kazon sucked. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Sep 13, 2022 |
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Sep 13, 2022 09:17
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I think Voyager was doomed to its fate no matter what quadrant it was set in, the issue was with the writers room not the premise. We could just have easily had a load of hacky go-nowhere stories about the Tosk guys and those chainmail aliens Quark trades with as we did about the Kazon and Borg, it just never should have been led by the old TNG team burnt out on TNG stories and writing more TNG by other means.
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Sep 13, 2022 09:22
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No Dignity posted:I think Voyager was doomed to its fate no matter what quadrant it was set in, the issue was with the writers room not the premise. We could just have easily had a load of hacky go-nowhere stories about the Tosk guys and those chainmail aliens Quark trades with as we did about the Kazon and Borg, it just never should have been led by the old TNG team burnt out on TNG stories and writing more TNG by other means. A lot of the issue was with the executive demands as well as the hosed up writers room, on occasion the writers would have a vague idea of doing something interesting and did want to have a bit more continuity, but the studio mandated everything be totally episodic, and that was the thing that wasted the premise of Voyager more than anything. Also 'we want all the actors to be boring and flat'.
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Sep 13, 2022 09:55
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The nicest thing I'll say about Voyager is that it served a vital function in keeping the dread gaze of Rick Berman away from DS9
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Sep 13, 2022 09:58
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Voyager was hyped to no end before release. Articles talking up how different it would be in every relevant publication. The second episode was an anomaly of the week with the ship they supposedly couldn't see being a visible reflection of voyager even on my 12" crt.
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Sep 13, 2022 10:39
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Yeah don't forget Voyager was one of the two main things propping up UPN so there was a ridiculous amount of extra studio pressure and interference. DS9 was happy in syndication.
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Sep 13, 2022 10:43
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Just finished my latest watch through of DS9. What a finale. Very bittersweet.
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Sep 13, 2022 14:07
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V-Men posted:Yeah Voyager might have been better served if the ship was stranded in the Gamma Quadrant instead so it could spend maybe what, three seasons dodging Jem Hadar pursuit, and have the latter three or four seasons be renewed exploration and diplomatic contact with species that are now free of Dominion control. I don't really have a problem with the Delta Quadrant itself, I just wish Star Trek writers could actually do interesting things with the concept of being really far away. If you're going to make your ~*~distant quadrant~*~ a find and replace with different foreheads, then maybe just don't bother. There's nothing wrong with setting an exploration show out on the edge of federation space or whatever and doing the TNG thing while focusing on actually telling good stories. Voyager did initially seem like they were going to do something a little different by setting the Delta Quadrant up to be more backward and low-tech compared to the Alpha Quadrant, but they abandoned that almost immediately because following the TNG formula doesn't allow your hero ship to outmatch everyone it encounters.
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Sep 13, 2022 16:20
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I remember someone said the Delta Quadrant should have been like a haunted house, and that’s stuck with me.
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Sep 13, 2022 16:35
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I always liked the idea of the Delta Quadrant being a place that's been profoundly affected by the presence of the Borg, but the only way that avoids the shittiness of late series Voyager is if the writers have the restraint never actually to show the Borg or do storylines directly about them. Just keeping it as a thematic thing where the civilizations of the Delta Quadrant are all poor and technologically backward because it's essentially a post-apocalyptic place.
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Sep 13, 2022 16:51
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I thought they could have done stuff with the way that Borg just ignore things that aren't a threat or resource. So Voyager could've been seen Borg all the time but it was just 'keep your head down and hope they don't care about us or happen to need a starship's worth of components for something' and the quadrant is littered with worlds doing the same, staying low and occasionally some just get chewed up because the Borg need raw material, and in the meantime there are refugee ships and the remnants of assimilated peoples that weren't worth chasing down, lurking in the dark and hoping to survive.
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Sep 13, 2022 16:57
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Paradoxish posted:I always liked the idea of the Delta Quadrant being a place that's been profoundly affected by the presence of the Borg, but the only way that avoids the shittiness of late series Voyager is if the writers have the restraint never actually to show the Borg or do storylines directly about them. Just keeping it as a thematic thing where the civilizations of the Delta Quadrant are all poor and technologically backward because it's essentially a post-apocalyptic place. MikeJF posted:I thought they could have done stuff with the way that Borg just ignore things that aren't a threat or resource. So Voyager could've been seen Borg all the time but it was just 'keep your head down and hope they don't care about us or happen to need a starship's worth of components for something' and the quadrant is littered with worlds doing the same, staying low and occasionally some just get chewed up because the Borg need raw material, and in the meantime there are refugee ships and the remnants of assimilated peoples that weren't worth chasing down, lurking in the dark and hoping to survive. Yeah, I was about to say basically the same as these. Voyager was going to be the Borg show anyway, they should have leaned into it harder. Have the threat of the Kazon be them trying to use leftover tech from the civilizations the Borg actually cared about. Have haphazard alliances who try to get more resources from Voyager than they can afford to give. Have haphazard alliances who try to fight Voyager off because they're worried about attracting Borg attention. Just have the Borg matter more when they're not on screen, and not in a "Seven Borgly knowing things and acting Borgly about them" way. Far more of the people Voyager ran into should have been defined by how they have interacted or have avoided interacting with the Borg.
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Sep 13, 2022 17:10
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nine-gear crow posted:
Lmao, no one is going to give a gently caress about those shows in 20 years besides YouTube essayists and whoever's running trekcore.com. I can see SNW building a lasting audience because it's more accessible to newer fans than something whose main appeal is nostalgia bait or... whatever Discovery is doing Alternatively, fandoms by that point will consist of enclaves of rich kids with demented worldviews (moreso I guess) and awful tastes while everyone else cosplays Mad Max 1
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Sep 13, 2022 18:04
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Tighclops posted:Lmao, no one is going to give a gently caress about those shows in 20 years besides YouTube essayists and whoever's running trekcore.com. I can see SNW building a lasting audience because it's more accessible to newer fans than something whose main appeal is nostalgia bait or... whatever Discovery is doing Yeah but now tons of people love the Star Wars prequels. I guess it's going to depend on how good the Discovery Memes are in 2040
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Sep 13, 2022 18:13
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zoux posted:Yeah but now tons of people love the Star Wars prequels. I guess it's going to depend on how good the Discovery Memes are in 2040 I don't think they're comparable, how many kids are "growing up" with Discovery and Picard? I also like lovely or disappointing things from my youth but wouldn't count on that nostalgia being there.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:25
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Battlestar Galactica kinda made good on the Voyager premise of a stranded ship under long-term threat. For a season or so anyway.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:53
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Yeah but BSG was literally created and written in direct response to Voyager's failings.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:59
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I could be wrong, but wasn't Voyager made and pitched as a return to TNG more episodic, ship exploring new worlds and dealing with crises after people were unhappy with DS9's more themed and recurring story lines?
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Sep 13, 2022 19:03
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The Prequels actually have redeeming qualities too, and the memes it spawned were from deliberately funny (or at least campy) dialogue. I dare you to say there was anything redeeming in Picard
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Sep 13, 2022 19:04
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MikeJF posted:Yeah but BSG was literally created and written in direct response to Voyager's failings. So what you're saying is that if Voyager made better use of the premise then Tom Paris would have become an angel.
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Sep 13, 2022 19:04
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No Dignity posted:See I've been doing a slow rewatch of Voyager trying to find the few diamonds amidst the rough and I'm still just finding it intolerably bland and pointless for the most part. It is just a very bad show written on autopilot by a room of burnt out hacks, Robert Beltran tried to get released from his contract for a reason! I tapped out of a rewatch in season 2 and skipped ahead to 4. It's much better with Seven there, the writing team seems to up their game somewhat. The_Doctor posted:I remember someone said the Delta Quadrant should have been like a haunted house, and that’s stuck with me. Sometimes it seemed vaguely post-apocalyptic which is something they should've really leaned into. Everyone left in the Delta Quadrant are people who either escaped or were beneath the notice of the Borg as they scoured their way through.
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