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evilweasel posted:that's how a lien works. So if this program explodes and people who already have mortgages in their property get them, and for whatever reason the house cannot be sold to cover the debt, exactly how long until banks get mad losing their mortgage investments because someone else gets to go first? This sounds super crazy. Seems like the govt is involved because no one else could legally cut the line and get ahead of the original senior lien holder, except the program is stuffed full of graft and free of any consumer protections capable of avoiding ruin if things suddenly stop going perfectly.
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Sep 16, 2022 03:33
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Phanatic posted:How do you get a priority lien on a house without the mortgage holder being made aware of it? Like, under what circumstances can one company just kick another one to the back of the line like that? it's implemented against the tax liability of the house it's sneaky as absolute dick and yes something needs to be done about it
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Sep 16, 2022 03:53
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this is essentially another circumstance where small governments are able to empower pretty lovely behavior. A local elected goober gets kickbacks for allowing contractors in the area to do work against tax liens against houses -- which is effectively cutting in line ahead of the mortgage lender -- and mostly gets away with it if the tax commissioner is on board. The small government has a sheriff's office that operates marshal services including things like serving & eviction and thus has a local monopoly on what is effectively "legal" same reason lynching was so normal for so long -- local government can enable an awful lotta horseshit so long as it's committed to shielding said bullshit
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Sep 16, 2022 04:11
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jemand posted:Seems like the govt is involved because no one else could legally cut the line and get ahead of the original senior lien holder Any contractor can and will put a mechanics lien on your home that is senior to the mortgage as well. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the lien part here. So I'm really not understanding the government rant,
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Sep 16, 2022 14:21
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So a contractor can put a mechanics lein on your house, take the entire value of it when it sells at auction, and leave the bank with absolutely nothing after you've declared bankruptcy? If that's true, I'm very surprised you don't see that happening frequently as like a sovcit scheme.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:42
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Jabor posted:So a contractor can put a mechanics lein on your house, take the entire value of it when it sells at auction, and leave the bank with absolutely nothing after you've declared bankruptcy? Depends. When it sells at a tax auction the lien very often doesn't get satisfied and stays attached to the property. This is among the many reasons why tax auctions are not suitable for private/individual buyers. I'm not any kind of expert on any of this, I just know it's a thing that happens and isn't unique to these scammy PACE loans. The system for doing so already exists and has for a long time.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:47
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If the bank gets paid out while the mechanics lien is not, it doesn't really sound like the mechanics lien is actually "senior" to the mortgage in practice.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:52
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Jabor posted:If the bank gets paid out while the mechanics lien is not, it doesn't really sound like the mechanics lien is actually "senior" to the mortgage in practice. The lienholder needs to assert their lien in a lot of, if not all, jurisdictions. If they don't they can lose out, especially at a sheriffs sale. This is why things like tax auctions and bankruptcies are required to be published ahead of time. If they assert they will be paid first.
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Sep 16, 2022 15:17
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Motronic posted:Any contractor can and will put a mechanics lien on your home that is senior to the mortgage as well. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the lien part here. So I'm really not understanding the government rant, Oh, I learned a new thing then. So how do banks protect against scams of the sort where borrowers who don't have any blood to squeeze out other than their home equity, load up to or over the actual value of the house in contact work, for some later kick back after foreclosure etc? Govt rant was just because I thought the only way to do that sort of thing would be to break normal procedures but clearly need to read more about these situations to figure out why decaying rust belt cities aren't full of scammers somehow mining bank equity from people who couldn't really care less.
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Sep 16, 2022 15:25
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Motronic posted:Any contractor can and will put a mechanics lien on your home that is senior to the mortgage as well. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the lien part here. So I'm really not understanding the government rant, This is highly state-dependent and is not the usual rule (usual rule is a prior lien from before work started wins out), and generally lien rights are considered a property interest the state isn't entitled to gently caress around with just because it feels like it. You could probably argue something like the mechanics' lien attaches to the improvements ergo no dispossession of property, so the state law isn't unconstitutional, but that isn't the usual way it works.
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Sep 16, 2022 15:31
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jemand posted:So how do banks protect against scams of the sort where borrowers who don't have any blood to squeeze out other than their home equity, load up to or over the actual value of the house in contact work, for some later kick back after foreclosure etc? Same place a homeowner who has a bogus mechanics lien put on their property goes: the civil court system. And maybe the criminal court system if its outright fraud. Banks have teams of lawyers on staff and ready to go for things like this. evilweasel posted:You could probably argue something like the mechanics' lien attaches to the improvements ergo no dispossession of property, so the state law isn't unconstitutional, but that isn't the usual way it works. Isn't this exactly how the PACE liens are attached? Which makes the insane amount of the one we're talking about immediately suspect and probably invalid. Also, mechanic liens around here are typically itemized bills for things like "the shingles you didn't pay for when we put the roof on your house" in addition to labor so they can't be entirely argued away if challenged. Motronic fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 15:33
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evilweasel posted:This is highly state-dependent and is not the usual rule (usual rule is a prior lien from before work started wins out), and generally lien rights are considered a property interest the state isn't entitled to gently caress around with just because it feels like it. You could probably argue something like the mechanics' lien attaches to the improvements ergo no dispossession of property, so the state law isn't unconstitutional, but that isn't the usual way it works. Yes, this is what I found when I started searching around -- few states seem to operate the way Motronic describes, and in some of those states it seems that things like renovations are treated differently than original construction. That said, most of what I was finding were outcomes of very specific court cases written up as precedent, and there really isn't any handy "50 state list of superpriority lien status" available. My guess is it can't exist, as these things are sorted out in extremely fact-specific manner for each individual filing. But I think contractors in most of the country probably shouldn't feel confident about recovering a lien ahead of the bank when operating on a house with likely-questionable equity available. Anyway, back to the BWM PACE individual, he: Posted ~18 months ago, prior to getting the system, that it was the best time possible for him to get panels since the pandemic had meant that him, his partner, other usual residents, and another family member not usually resident had been home almost all the time, dramatically driving up their recent energy usage. Why did this matter to him? Well, because the program only allowed him to get capacity for documented usage over the last year, otherwise it was considered "energy farming" and disallowed. He very very soon afterward started posting all over MJ subreddits about getting into the business. A couple weeks after the (very oversized) Tesla solar system was installed, it fried itself. Installers and power company were pointing fingers at each other and homeowner didn't seem too interested in really sorting it out. My guess is that the repairs eventually got added to the loan without his knowledge, at least doubling the baseline. He continued to consistently post about grow operations, all but confirming that's the "business venture" all his cash is wrapped up in so that he has to go for a HELOC to fund his wedding. Stated that the description of lien function was never anywhere in the "colorful brochure" he'd gotten, but he couldn't say whether or not it was in the 40 pages of "legalwork" he'd signed, and still never read, not even after it was super clear reddit was suggesting that the details of his contract solar work / lease / loan / etc were critical to understanding his situation. Good decisions from day one!
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Sep 16, 2022 16:03
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Motronic posted:Isn't this exactly how the PACE liens are attached? Which makes the insane amount of the one we're talking about immediately suspect and probably invalid. it seems like PACE liens are using an existing workaround that is legally valid because the original lien was implicitly made subject to a tax lien. mechanics liens do not attach to the tax lien, they attach to the property just like any other lien (though sometimes they are very complex to file, more complex than the usual mortgage) lien poo poo in bankruptcy can get extremely complex where real property is involved because it's a mess of byzantine and almost deliberately overcomplicated poo poo, that is incredibly state dependent and incredibly not standardized anywhere. mechanics' liens are one of the things that are pretty far into the "byzantine rules, varying heavily state by state" part of that.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:21
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evilweasel posted:mechanics' liens are one of the things that are pretty far into the "byzantine rules, varying heavily state by state" part of that. Makes sense that its state dependent. I just have seen that much variance on basic mechanics liens from the handful of states I've dealt with them in. ......and I forgot my favorite thing that I've recently seen around here: a third party supplier putting a mechanics lien on someone house. As in, you hire a roofing company, they buy shingles and whatever from their vendor for your job, you don't pay the roofers (because they did the job wrong), the roofers don't pay the bill for your materials, and the supplier puts a lien on the homeowners property. I have no idea if that one will stand up in court of if it's even going to go that far. But it just seems really, really wrong that it was even accepted as filed. The homeowner literally has no business relationship with the supplier.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:31
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Jabor posted:If that's true, I'm very surprised you don't see that happening frequently as like a sovcit scheme. My mom's husband was on the city council for a fairly small suburb around the time that the Tea Party was ramping up. He and the other council members had to deal with a lot of harassment from those nutcases, which included them trying to put fraudulent liens on his house.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:04
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Motronic posted:Any contractor can and will put a mechanics lien on your home that is senior to the mortgage as well. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the lien part here. So I'm really not understanding the government rant, In states that have laws allowing mechanics liens, they're typically limited to pretty small amounts. Certainly nothing like the value of the home.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:07
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Cyrano4747 posted:7b) With the death of rail transport FedEx's share price quintuples overnight. Everyone involved in Delivr gets a fuckton of money from this. FedEx uses a lot of rail transport so they would also be hosed by this.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:18
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Motronic posted:Any contractor can and will put a mechanics lien on your home that is senior to the mortgage as well. I'm not seeing a lot of difference in the lien part here. So I'm really not understanding the government rant, What state do you live in where a mechanics lien is senior to a mortgage (not counting new construction)? That's pretty much never the case. A PACE loan is basically a tax lien which is why it gets priority.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:31
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You can also use a UCC Fixture Filing to secure a loan for solar panels (or windows, doors, any fixtures). That’s how the banks I’ve worked at have collateralized their loans for those projects. It’ll show up on a title search (ask me about angry mortgage lenders who didn’t bother looking at title until closing). We couldn’t foreclose but recovery if you have a perfected UCC is just a waiting game.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:20
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Harry posted:What state do you live in where a mechanics lien is senior to a mortgage (not counting new construction)? That's pretty much never the case. A PACE loan is basically a tax lien which is why it gets priority. PA. And it depends on how it's filed. As far as I'm aware the theory behind it is that these repairs/improvements covered by the mechanics lien weren't part of the mortgage. So if the bank tried to take what was covered under that lien in a foreclosure it would be similar to them trying to claim that they get to keep/sell the car in the garage just because it's in the house they hold the mortgage on, when in reality that car is going to the noteholder of the car. The house wouldn't have the additional value of the lien without the leinholders work and materials, so the mortgage bank shouldn't be benefiting from that first.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:52
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Motronic posted:PA. And it depends on how it's filed. As far as I'm aware the theory behind it is that these repairs/improvements covered by the mechanics lien weren't part of the mortgage. So if the bank tried to take what was covered under that lien in a foreclosure it would be similar to them trying to claim that they get to keep/sell the car in the garage just because it's in the house they hold the mortgage on, when in reality that car is going to the noteholder of the car. The house wouldn't have the additional value of the lien without the leinholders work and materials, so the mortgage bank shouldn't be benefiting from that first. Are you sure? I can't find anything on google about this and that just seems very out of the ordinary and would cause a lot of lenders to simply not bother with mortgages at all in that state. I see a provision for PA where the mechanics lien is in effect as soon as the work begins so that causes some issues with new construction, but not a way for a roof installer to gain priority after filing a lien 10 years into a mortgage.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:38
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Harry posted:Are you sure? I can't find anything on google about this and that just seems very out of the ordinary and would cause a lot of lenders to simply not bother with mortgages at all in that state. I see a provision for PA where the mechanics lien is in effect as soon as the work begins so that causes some issues with new construction, but not a way for a roof installer to gain priority after filing a lien 10 years into a mortgage. As I didn't consult google unfortunately all I have to go on is the experience of the actual live contractors I've known for many years who have been conducting their business for decades in PA.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:40
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Motronic posted:As I didn't consult google unfortunately all I have to go on is the experience of the actual live contractors I've known for many years who have been conducting their business for decades in PA. part of my job is "lol you stamped this lien wrong, its invalid" in bankruptcy so i can assure you that people with ages of experience can be wrong on how they work, even when large amounts of money are at issue that said, doing some googling as well, I also agree that it looks like PA law allows a mechanic's lien to relate back to when work visibly commenced. if i buy a house via a mortgage and then have someone commence work i do not believe, based on my googling, the lien would attach prior to the mortgage. it seems pretty clear PA law relates back the lien to visible commencement.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:53
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BonerGhost posted:Sorry, $70k for entry level with no programming background? Are they hiring now? Im self taught and my first gig was 80k. I know other self taught devs who were pulling in 160K + options on their first job. It really just comes down to how hard you're willing to study.
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Sep 17, 2022 00:47
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Im self taught and my first gig was 80k. I know other self taught devs who were pulling in 160K + options on their first job. It really just comes down to how hard you're willing to study. Self study cert is different, in my eyes, from no background and they train entry level.
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Sep 17, 2022 02:53
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Also I feel it's not nearly as much about how hard you're willing to study and more where you're located and who you know.
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Sep 17, 2022 03:23
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My company just announced last week an efficiency change in payroll operations so that starting in 2023, salaried employees in the US were going to be paid every two weeks (26x per year) just like hourly workers vs. twice per month (24x per year) the way they're paid now. They gave very detailed guidance on how total annual party wouldn't change and how this would affect things like benefit deductions from paychecks, percentage vs. dollar-based 401(k) contribution levels, child support and garnishment, elections based on splitting your paycheck into different direct deposit accounts, and so on. But not everyone will read it, or they'll forget of course. You just know come January, there are going to be people ranting about one or more of the following:
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Sep 17, 2022 14:26
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I mean I always budget for 2 paychecks a month so that 3rd one just gets tossed into savings.
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Sep 17, 2022 16:19
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tater_salad posted:I mean I always budget for 2 paychecks a month so that 3rd one just gets tossed into savings. This is the way.
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Sep 17, 2022 16:24
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tater_salad posted:I mean I always budget for 2 paychecks a month so that 3rd one just gets tossed into savings. I use it to buy something dumb that I don't really need.
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Sep 17, 2022 16:55
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tater_salad posted:I mean I always budget for 2 paychecks a month so that 3rd one just gets tossed into savings. 
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Sep 17, 2022 19:36
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Getting paid weekly is nice. Makes it easy to do a quick scan of the bank account on Thursday mornings to make sure the direct deposit hit and expenditures are in line with expectations. Oh god having a baby is so expensive.
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Sep 17, 2022 20:16
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Weekly paychecks sounds like pocket money. I don't think you get that in European countries outside of bar type work, definitely nothing salaried.
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Sep 17, 2022 22:02
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knox_harrington posted:Weekly paychecks sounds like pocket money. I don't think you get that in European countries outside of bar type work, definitely nothing salaried. Yeah, it's all monthly payments here in Germany
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Sep 17, 2022 22:18
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EricBauman posted:At a certain point, those loans will be from so long ago, and the odds of regulatory interest so low that paying a fine if anyone wants to look at the loans is cheaper than keeping all of that stuff. I mean, I was just looking at some loas from 2004 for a regulatory audit like a month ago. I think it will have to be 20 or 30 years from now. Plus a lot of those loans are pledged as collateral for a credit loan with the FHLB, which is extremely important if you want to be an operating bank and be able to borrow money from other banks or have a credit rating at all. We never dip into our FHLB credit line, but even having it reduced is Very Bad from a shareholder standpoint and a “we want to keep printing money” standpoint. The FHLB will require us to keep that poo poo as long as those loans are on the books. BonerGhost posted:Sorry, $70k for entry level with no programming background? Are they hiring now? I will look. I have heard there is a hiring freeze but sometimes critical roles don’t count for that. Generally they hire these people in batches, so if they are going to start another round it will be advertised. I’ll send you a PM next week. I do not work anywhere near that department though. therobit fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Sep 18, 2022 |
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Sep 18, 2022 01:05
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therobit posted:I mean, I was just looking at some loas from 2004 for a regulatory audit like a month ago. I think it will have to be 20 or 30 years from now. That would be great, thank you.
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Sep 18, 2022 09:14
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Chipotle is going all in on selling food on the metaverse.quote:Chipotle will become the first brand to enable Roblox players to exchange in-experience currency for real-world items quote:Chipotle Mexican Grill (NYSE: CMG) announced today it is launching Chipotle Burrito Builder on Roblox (NYSE: RBLX), a new simulation experience that will challenge players to roll burritos in the metaverse to earn Burrito Bucks, the brand's in-experience currency on Roblox1. quote:CHIPOTLE INTRODUCES NEW GARLIC GUAJILLO STEAK ACROSS THE U.S., CANADA AND THE METAVERSE quote:NEWPORT BEACH, Calif., Sept. 13, 2022 /PRNewswire/ -- Chipotle Mexican Grill (NYSE: CMG) today announced its new Garlic Guajillo Steak will be available at Chipotle restaurants across the U.S. and Canada, and virtually in the metaverse, for a limited time. The brand's latest menu innovation introduces an entirely new flavor profile to Chipotle's menu featuring tender cuts of steak seasoned with the bold flavors of garlic and guajillo peppers. Earlier today, Chipotle became the first restaurant brand to officially unveil a new menu item in the metaverse by debuting Garlic Guajillo Steak through the Chipotle Grill Simulator experience on Roblox. https://newsroom.chipotle.com/2022-09-13-CHIPOTLE-INTRODUCES-NEW-GARLIC-GUAJILLO-STEAK-ACROSS-THE-U-S-,-CANADA-AND-THE-METAVERSE
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Sep 20, 2022 00:39
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What does that even mean?????
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Sep 20, 2022 00:42
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No one knows, but it's provocative, it gets the people going
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Sep 20, 2022 00:46
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Upgrade posted:What does that even mean????? What part of "an immersive digital Garlic Guajillo Steak Grill experience in the Metaverse on Roblox1" don't you understand? Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 20, 2022 |
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Sep 20, 2022 00:46
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