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mostly i dont think ff9 is really interested in the judging part, either in a raw worldbuilding sense of its life/death cycle or thematically. the whole ending is basically the kuja absolution hour with zidane going back for him and mikoto talking about how he showed the genomes they could live for themselves.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:03
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I don't think it's be bad or missing the overall message, i think it would just be weaker for it. I agree, not least of why because the dominance of Disney's Hades in culture. I'd find it hard to take 9:s final boss seriously if thinking of that.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:03
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Feels Villeneuve posted:yeah and why's it called final fantasy anyway????? and how about those airline peanuts
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Sep 17, 2022 07:04
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NikkolasKing posted:"Your inability to understand art clearly prohibits you from recognizing a person who says the F-slur should be probated." Maybe I don't get art but you don't understand anything based on this stupid rear end post. 
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Sep 17, 2022 07:07
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Feels Villeneuve posted:yeah and why's it called final fantasy anyway????? and how about those airline peanuts Sakaguchi wanted to call it Fighting Fantasy but that was trademarked as a table top game, or something like that. They just loved their alliteration.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:10
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NikkolasKing posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3983885&pagenumber=440&perpage=40#post526329013 It's in the post you can read it but I mean I can break it down for you more if necessary. As a child I spent a lot of time grinding poo poo in ff4, just for fun something to do. Now my Cid was very very strong. I'd seem him take magical explosions to the face all the loving time, that did not mean I didn't engage with what he and the narrative played as essentially his own suicide to save everyone else. Because I was able to understand the frame work of a medium and how it tells it's narrative because I'm normal. Same way I know the actors in a movie aren't in any real danger but I can still feel like they might be and worry and root for them. You're talking about a mechanical gameplay abstraction, Combat, something the narrative always treats as an abstraction, What with the concept of stats and HP and all that not really being 'real' as far as the narrative is concerned. Something you enter by the game literally shattering the world to get into and complaining "Wait this doesn't really match 1-1 with the story?" to the point that it's bothered you for 20 years in your own words. It's a dumb dumb thing to get frustrated by, and is basically actively choosing to step out of the narrative for pedantics. A rejection of analysis and working with the story as its told because of a refusal to understand the medium through which it is being told. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 07:11
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Sakaguchi wanted to call it Fighting Fantasy but that was trademarked as a table top game, or something like that. specifically they really wanted the abbreviation 'FF,' because they thought it'd make for a good logo. their first choice was fighting, but that was taken. they wrote down a bunch of english words that started with F and thought Final Fantasy sounded good. which, tbh, pretty obviously a hindsight thing but i think 'final fantasy' sounds much artsier as a title than 'fighting fantasy' so its one of those things that probably worked out for the best in the end.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:12
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if I remember right in their early days they had something of an alliterative title thing going on too
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Sep 17, 2022 07:15
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Endorph posted:mostly i dont think ff9 is really interested in the judging part, either in a raw worldbuilding sense of its life/death cycle or thematically. the whole ending is basically the kuja absolution hour with zidane going back for him and mikoto talking about how he showed the genomes they could live for themselves. I do wish we got a little more of Kuja in the actual epilogue, but it would pull weight and spotlight from Zidane's 'surprise' appearance so I understand why they didn't. Endorph posted:specifically they really wanted the abbreviation 'FF,' because they thought it'd make for a good logo. their first choice was fighting, but that was taken. they wrote down a bunch of english words that started with F and thought Final Fantasy sounded good. We got Final Fight and Final Fantasy and they wanted Fighting Fantasy so who's making Final Final.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:15
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:There's a bell curve of stupidity that comes with age and believed intelligent where literal children can follow a narrative and theme and understand where the facade of gameplay has to bend and give way to narrative weight (As most of us did playing these for the first time) and then as we get older we start to try and out think the narrative by being Above it by refusing to engage with it's story telling and the trappings of the medium through which the story is brought to us. In doing this we basically rob it of any actual emotional connection and weight and essentially sever ourselves and our hearts entirely from Art as a concept, what it tries to do what it means to us and basically turn into living listicles spouting plot points and talking about plot holes but not actually understanding the piece on any real intellectual or emotional level. Which is exemplified in this topic by two posters who repeatedly reject basically the concept of narrative or subtext existing in general. Yeah but what does 224 damage even look like when you only have 711 max health though? How come we never see any numbers popping up when people are playing sports? I wanna see people boxing and 1168 pop up when someone catches a hook to the face.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:15
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah but what does 224 damage even look like when you only have 711 max health though? How come we never see any numbers popping up when people are playing sports? I wanna see people boxing and 1168 pop up when someone catches a hook to the face. This bit isn't as funny when it's essentially Nik's post about "Clearly Tidus can take a gunshot to the face it only does 5% of his max HP why is he under threat in this cutscene!?".
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Sep 17, 2022 07:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Genuinely shocked that they were talking out their rear end. You have to understand that he says this all very slowly, because he's dying.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:18
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Why do FF characters not weaken and deal less damage as their health goes down? They definitely lose energy in some regard, as evidenced by their HP low sprites/animations.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:18
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Feels Villeneuve posted:if I remember right in their early days they had something of an alliterative title thing going on too yeah they had king's knight, rad racer, cruise chaser. seems like someone at very early square thought it looked nice or helped sell or something.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:19
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jokes posted:Why do FF characters not weaken and deal less damage as their health goes down? They definitely lose energy in some regard, as evidenced by their HP low sprites/animations. Ff16 should steal Metal Gear Survives HP system
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Sep 17, 2022 07:19
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i think it's funny when summons destroy cities in cutscenes and do 500 damage in battle but it's funny in the same way as like, asking why people sing instead of running away when someone is about to knife them to death in an opera. there are just some conventions that you kind of have to accept when trying to actually engage with game storytelling
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Sep 17, 2022 07:21
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think it's funny when summons destroy cities in cutscenes and do 500 damage in battle but it's funny in the same way as like, asking why people sing instead of running away when someone is about to knife them to death in an opera. there are just some conventions that you kind of have to accept when trying to actually engage with game storytelling It's true of every medium and genre basically.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:22
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Final fantasy is fun and dumb. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and stop thinking so much, thinking is for idiots and nerds. Now... let's blitz!
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Sep 17, 2022 07:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This bit isn't as funny when it's essentially Nik's post about "Clearly Tidus can take a gunshot to the face it only does 5% of his max HP why is he under threat in this cutscene!?". poo poo, sorry about that, there were about five less posts when I had had hit quote on yours.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:31
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As far as the meaning of Necron, it might help to know that in Japanese and other languages, he's known as "Eternal Darkness." That suggests to me something beyond death and all the way to nonexistence. Which makes me think of the Patristic Christian view that evil is the privation and corruption of good, and essentially a drive towards non-being.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:32
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Keromaru5 posted:As far as the meaning of Necron, it might help to know that in Japanese and other languages, he's known as "Eternal Darkness." That suggests to me something beyond death and all the way to nonexistence. Eternal Darkness sounds more Manichean? Like it's an independent force. If something is eternal, it's on par with God, isn't it? Not evn souls aer eternal in most Christian views, I don't think. They didn't always exist.
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Sep 17, 2022 07:34
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oh yeah necrons name in japanese very specifically doesnt sound like a persons name, its 'eien no yami'
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Sep 17, 2022 07:35
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it's been a while since i played ff9 and my memory isn't the best but im pretty sure the theme of that game is "freya is cool" and idk what necron has to do with that
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Sep 17, 2022 07:46
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i played like an hour or w/e of ff9 (got to the stone forest?), went Cool, and then i never played it after that... prob bounced off it which is a shame, it seems p cool
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Sep 17, 2022 08:23
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sorry actually the character advancement and battle systems in ffx and ffx-2 reflect the journey of the characters and if you sign up for my patreon now you may listen to my 15 part solo podcast explaining why
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Sep 17, 2022 08:27
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Farting Fantasy Edit: this is in response to the information that they just wanted an alliterative name but I quoted the wrong person and I'm too lazy to fix it FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 08:28
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Relax Or DIE posted:sorry actually the character advancement and battle systems in ffx and ffx-2 reflect the journey of the characters and if you sign up for my patreon now you may listen to my 15 part solo podcast explaining why Clearly Tidus leveling up is why he complained of freezing in Baaj Temple but later climbed a snowy mountain without so much as a slight shiver.
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Sep 17, 2022 08:50
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jokes posted:Why do FF characters not weaken and deal less damage as their health goes down? They definitely lose energy in some regard, as evidenced by their HP low sprites/animations. Actually this reminded me of how in Star Ocean 3, your characters will get KOd if they hit 0 MP. Much like how hitting 0 HP means a character is physically exhausted and cannot continue, 0 MP means a character is mentally exhausted and cannot continue. It's actually kind of neat though as you can imagine fairly frustrating in a game where your other party members are AI controlled.
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Sep 17, 2022 09:06
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shadow hearts has something similar going on right? like there's sanity points(iirc??) and if they fully drain in a battle the char goes berserk
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Sep 17, 2022 09:08
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jokes posted:Final fantasy is fun and dumb. Just sit back and enjoy the ride and stop thinking so much, thinking is for idiots and nerds. I’m going to not think and kill Chaos.
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Sep 17, 2022 11:21
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Im here to grind for no reason and summon ifrit and I'm all out of MP
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Sep 17, 2022 11:44
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think it's funny when summons destroy cities in cutscenes and do 500 damage in battle but it's funny in the same way as like, asking why people sing instead of running away when someone is about to knife them to death in an opera. there are just some conventions that you kind of have to accept when trying to actually engage with game storytelling it's true and it doesn't usually get in the way of me enjoying things i like in a story, but it is also even more satisfying when a story accounts for all or almost all of the logical consequences of things it chooses to include. the thing with a lot of games is they chase spectacle first, and for me, that isn't going to be as interesting as something less spectacular but where all of the events are given the appropriate weight consistently across the length of the story. FF is the kind of series that just chucks stuff in there and doesn't really think about what it means for other parts of the story as long as the event itself looks or feels cool in its own self-contained bubble. a lot of things are like that and they're entertaining, but keeping things tethered to logic can make moments that are smaller in the abstract hit like a ton of bricks in practice. if anything can happen and there's no sense of scale, it's harder to maintain that balance.
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Sep 17, 2022 11:48
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everyone asks what the heck is necron but nobody asks what the heck is ragtime mouse
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Sep 17, 2022 11:53
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I feel like genuinely complaining about stuff like 'these are random trash enemies, why are they suddenly a problem in cutscenes' (as opposed to casually ribbing the game for it) isn't actually speaking to a logic problem, and is more trying to hit a logical reason why a story beat emotionally doesn't work. It's hard to articulate why a scene or character doesn't resonate for you in the way the game asks of it, but it's comparatively much easier to claim there's some logical flaw at play; the former requires you to have a pretty decent grasp of your own emotions and feelings and why they don't match with the story's intentions, while the latter lets you instead declare yourself to be right and the story to be wrong. Crisis Core's ending is a really good example, actually; I've seen people claim it to be a really strong melding of combat mechanics and storytelling, but I've also seen people go 'these enemies are trash with no stats, why can Zack suddenly not fight them'. It's great when the game's mechanics meld well with what the story's trying to say, but I don't think making that happen where it doesn't already actually solves any displeasure when it might exist, because ultimately the the complaint about 'this shouldn't work like this mechanically' isn't the real problem, it's just a convenient target when the actual problem is harder to describe.
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Sep 17, 2022 12:07
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people always get ask "what the hell is necron" but it's never "how the hell is necron" 
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Sep 17, 2022 13:17
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Oh gently caress me apparently I didn’t know about Catoblepas in FFV World 2 and now have permanently missed it. drat I’ve done a ‘get 100% blue magic as soon as possible’ run this time; was hoping to get all the summons as well. But I didn’t use a guide to summons, while I used the excellent steam guide to blue magic. I’m at over 60 hours on this playthough and just finished the pyramid dungeon. For I and III PR I finished the final boss in around 20 hours each. I think I’m going to absolutely bulldoze the endgame here… Can’t decide if I’m going to do IV PR, VI PR, III 3D, or VII OG on iOS next. Isn’t there supposed to be some kind of FFVII compendium game coming out for mobile devices this year. Ever Crisis? Was supposed to go along with that terrible battle royale game but apparently there been no news on it for a year. VII is one of my most replayed FF’s already so if Ever Crisis episodes are actually coming out soon I might wait for it rather than play through the ‘original again but this time but with bad upscaling for high resolution displays’ … although is VII upscaling for phone screens as bad as it is in VIII? Those shots of polygon npcs next to character models that were rendered as parts of the static backgrounds in VIII look dire.
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Sep 17, 2022 14:13
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Snow Cone Capone posted:people always get ask "what the hell is necron" but it's never "how the hell is necron" Don't think I didn't think of it, I just don't care
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Sep 17, 2022 14:14
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Using Mako to kill the planet AND make bioweapons, cool cool. Sephiroth does not seem to be handling this well.
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Sep 17, 2022 14:29
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Sorry to step in here like this, but can we not actively attack each other for having different opinions? I know this really only applies to three people here in the last few pages, but I'd rather everyone attack the arguments, not the person making them. Otherwise those posts get tedious to read and really brings down the vibe of this thread. I don't want to start probating people for this, but I will. Anyway, there was talk about using battle mechanics to integrate into story, and FF4 does a lot of this. There was mention of Dark Knight Cecil struggling against the undead, and it's amusing that he ends up at the mercy of two five-year-olds to make it up the mountain. Though of course he is then "reborn" as a Paladin (starting at L1) and just annihilates everything afterward. There's also the starting levels of most characters. More inexperienced characters like Edward and the twins start at lowish levels, though they have some experience. Rydia starts at L1 but is a quick learner since she kinda has to be. Cecil, Kain, Rosa, and Yang are established soldiers and start at higher levels. Tellah is a high level but levels much more slowly and of course can lose stats due to his age. Edge is an outlier since he joins so late. There's the story battles, like Tellah just wailing on Edward with his staff, Kain kicking Cecil's rear end, Tellah vs. Golbez, and so on progressing the story dynamically through battles instead of just cutscenes. There's other stuff like Rydia not learning Fire due to plot stuff, Edward's stats being godlike if you somehow grinded him to obscene levels, Tellah being stuck at 90MP, and probably more I'm forgetting. You could tell the devs and writers were really excited with the SNES tech and wanted to experiment more with storytelling and gameplay, which really took off in FF6 with full-on cutscenes taking place in battle screens to allow for more dynamic animation. Also going back to Dragoons for a bit, the first Dragoon in the series is Ricard, who neither could Jump nor even really used spears, being more of a sword user. That said, he did try to make moves on his friend's wife, so he's at least a Dragoon as far as having a complicated romantic life. Mega64 fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 14:43
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Mega64 posted:Anyway, there was talk about using battle mechanics to integrate into story, and FF4 does a lot of this. There was mention of Dark Knight Cecil struggling against the undead, and it's amusing that he ends up at the mercy of two five-year-olds to make it up the mountain. Though of course he is then "reborn" as a Paladin (starting at L1) and just annihilates everything afterward.
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