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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

RatHat posted:

A bunch of single swords that are extremely similar, Dual swords, and Glaive(I forget the Chinese name for it). Each weapon only has a quick attack combo sting, spirit(strong) attack, and some martial arts attacks though. That’s one of my biggest complaints, the lack of combo variety

Guandao. Easy to remember because the guy it's named after, Guan Yu, is probably who you're going to end up farming for the best guandao gear.

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Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
They're going to have to go hard on Guan Yu as a boss. Like sure a lot of the big names from the Sengoku era are legends, but my man Yunchang was literally deified.

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
I knew it was going to well to not have a second phase lol

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Phantasium posted:

Dunno why I thought this thread wouldn't have talked about SOP and now Wo Long, but the demo for the latter was a fun surprise while I'm finally making my way through the former. I really like what this team has been doing with parries, even if the window in Wo Long is currently pretty tight.

Nah there's definitely something fucky about it, I felt like if I wasn't completely stock still and smashing the button they'd just ignore the input and I'd sit there and eat poo poo.

Good to see I wasn't the only one, I wrote it in survey about the potion issue. For the parry window I really feel like they will give it 1 more active frame atleast because literally everyone complained about that.

I actually am going through SoP, I had to stop playing it while playing the demo for this since the dash/dodge is in the spellshield button for SoP, it can't confusing my brain. I actually can't believe how cool the spellshield abitlity is in SoP, how the mp system works, instant cancel with stolen abilities and all the jobs being quite different. Only thing is so far I think the regular enemies are super easy due to teammates. Only the bosses seem to have been designed in mind that the player has a party and as usual in every soulslike/soulsborne I have played mage is broken in pve. My 2nd class is fistingman but I rushed to the expert class for magic. It's so drat broken, aoe dmg that can also hit weakness? When you get the sage class you have both dmg + supportive spells all in one.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen
Wo Long was fun, but I think I’m missing the point of the martial art skills. They do less damage and leave me more vulnerable than my basic spirit attack. Sure they only take one bar of spirit, but why spend any bar at all when I can just save it up for one big hit, fast hit and delete a guy’s health bar instantly

Also they’re tied to weapons, which is gross. SoP had that too and I was hoping they’d junk that concept for future titles. Let my fun tools be weapon-agnostic, thanks

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Ulio posted:

I actually can't believe how cool the spellshield abitlity is in SoP, how the mp system works, instant cancel with stolen abilities and all the jobs being quite different. Only thing is so far I think the regular enemies are super easy due to teammates. Only the bosses seem to have been designed in mind that the player has a party and as usual in every soulslike/soulsborne I have played mage is broken in pve. My 2nd class is fistingman but I rushed to the expert class for magic. It's so drat broken, aoe dmg that can also hit weakness? When you get the sage class you have both dmg + supportive spells all in one.

Once that second demo let me remove the party members, I started playing and getting used to it like that, so now I've been going through the stages and bosses by myself, and leaving the teammates for the side missions. I really like how if you get good at the parrying you can pretty much just stay in Lightbringer all the time and make bosses essentially kill themselves while they destroy their own break gauge.

CharlestonJew posted:

Wo Long was fun, but I think I’m missing the point of the martial art skills. They do less damage and leave me more vulnerable than my basic spirit attack. Sure they only take one bar of spirit, but why spend any bar at all when I can just save it up for one big hit, fast hit and delete a guy’s health bar instantly

Also they’re tied to weapons, which is gross. SoP had that too and I was hoping they’d junk that concept for future titles. Let my fun tools be weapon-agnostic, thanks

Yeah I definitely wasn't feeling those, but at least you don't need to remap them every time you switch a weapon with skills like in SOP.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Played through the demo last night, good thoughts:

- Animations and sound are great, the sense of impact and overall feel when you're in the flow are really satisfying. they've nailed one of the most important parts of an action game which is that the basic thing you do all the time should feel good. absolutely loved the animations and sounds on drop attacks.

- I was initially very sus about morale because it seemed like a rich-get-richer/poor-get-poorer mechanic. and it absolutely is, but I felt like it was a net positive specifically because of the fortitude mechanic that rewards exploring the level with something besides loot, and it led to a little power arc over the course of the level as more spells become available. I think it will make sense in the full game to have an early-mission spell loadout with stuff that only needs 1-3 morale to cast and a late-mission loadout with the big stuff. They really need to better clarify what all morale does though, I wasn't sure what it was doing for me besides unlocking more spells or what it meant on enemies besides indirectly communicating how dangerous they were.

- I really like the magic system, it's great that it looks equally available to all builds and seems to be a core part of any character's abilities, just with certain stats making it cheaper or last longer, and it's great that it's very low-stress to use because you only need to wait or smack things to get your casting resource back. I only used earth but I look forward to seeing what the other types can do

- The divine beast seems much more accessible and meaningful than yokai shift (if you haven't built around it, anyway) because you can charge it in a more reasonable amount of time just by hitting things. the earth beast's landmine spikes were really neat.

- The gear effects I saw were much more baseline meaningful than nioh's spam of "+0.7% gold gained from enemies who are poisoned." Less loot spam with more meaningful drops will be an improvement.



bad thoughts:

- I extremely hate that enemies become invincible when dodging, I do not think iframes are a mechanic that belongs on AI and I found that the glaive I used for 90% of the demo often felt barely too slow to hit things before they suddenly made it whiff in a way that felt frustrating and prevented getting that momentum in a way that felt cheap. at the same time I had a number of attacks just phase through enemies that didn't seem to be in any kind of dodge animation, so maybe there's a bug or some early build jank.

- Not sure how to phrase this but there is something I'm not grasping with player movement and how to offense/defense correctly. A lot of that rich-get-richer feel extends to the moment-to-moment combat, where sometimes I would go apeshit and become a wrecking ball that destroyed everything before it could fight back, and other times the character felt extremely sluggish and incapable of keeping pace. I would get stuck in this failure spiral that I only saw one way to dig myself out of: repeatedly deflecting things with that insanely tight deflect window. the risk-reward of deflecting normal attacks is way off and I straight up couldn't believe some of the things that hit me after I thought I timed it dead-on. (the unblockables at least seemed to have a barely more forgiving window.) Reading an attack's arrival even the tiniest bit too early will get you owned, and I don't really want to have to measure my character's hitbox down to the pixel to get it right.

On the boss, getting out of the way via dodging felt like a non-starter because it craters your spirit so hard as to be a faustian bargain which can just get you winded on the next hit/block, blocking everything just put me in the red and wouldn't work indefinitely, and he would always insufferably dodge the glaive's non-spirit-consuming attacks at the last moment so I wasn't able to recover through offense either. felt like either I had to 100-0 him without losing momentum once, or get stuck in this rut where I had no choice but to do these absurdly punishing deflects over and over to get out. so I enjoyed the level and frankly hated the boss. maybe don't use the glaive, faster weapons are probably better about being able to recover through offense.

- they need to polish the controls a bit, among other things I had a "triangle + circle" input for divine beast get read as just "triangle" and lock me into a spirit attack which got me killed.


In conclusion wo long is a product taht I will purchase when it comes out in 2023.

Calidus
Oct 31, 2011

Stand back I'm going to try science!
Blocking being affective without heavy armor is weird I couldn’t get use to it.


It really looks great on ps5, take my money

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Phantasium posted:

Once that second demo let me remove the party members, I started playing and getting used to it like that, so now I've been going through the stages and bosses by myself, and leaving the teammates for the side missions. I really like how if you get good at the parrying you can pretty much just stay in Lightbringer all the time and make bosses essentially kill themselves while they destroy their own break gauge.

Wait how do you remove the party members? I need to retry the bosses by myself now. This is how I played Code Vein, having your partner made that game completely trivial but solo it was a super challenging experience, I thought at the time it was harder than some souls games.

Also playing Wo Long makes me so annoyed that Fromsoft still is stuck in their old combat style they really need a Sekiro 2 or Bloodborne rally type mechanic. I think in ER there is a rune that gaves you the rally mechanic but it should have been a core mechanic.

Ulio fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Sep 20, 2022

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



I'm more sympathetic to Elden Ring being the way it is now that I've learned that it was developed coterminously with Sekiro by a different team, so the applicable lessons of Sekiro couldn't easily or readily be applied to ER. I do think that Wo Long is going in the right direction in terms of its own design: as much as I love Nioh 2, the number of systems and mechanical complexity of combat is incredibly daunting to pick up for most Souls-adjacent players who're used to combat being "mash light attack and dodge" and not much else. Hammering it down into something more recognizable lets them refine the combat flow and appeal to a broader audience that otherwise might've been alienated again.

Captainicus
Feb 22, 2013



Ulio posted:

Wait how do you remove the party members? I need to retry the bosses by myself now. This is how I played Code Vein, having your partner made that game completely trivial but solo it was a super challenging experience, I thought at the time it was harder than some souls games.

In the party member select screen, you can set a slot as empty. I don't remember if it is a specific button or something else but I think it is pretty obvious when you are looking?

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Ulio posted:

Wait how do you remove the party members? I need to retry the bosses by myself now. This is how I played Code Vein, having your partner made that game completely trivial but solo it was a super challenging experience, I thought at the time it was harder than some souls games.

On the edit party menu, if you press triangle (or equivalent) it just clears out the slot.

I tried Code Vein that way but it was just tedious and made me quit, bosses in that game love doing two heals worth of damage and also inflicting punishing debuffs, having a boss with slow is just egregious. I should probably try that game again with party members on, but also it was an aggressively okay game.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
i can't kill this loving bird. is it possible to deflect the big laser attack

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
okay got it. hell yeah

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Captainicus posted:

In the party member select screen, you can set a slot as empty. I don't remember if it is a specific button or something else but I think it is pretty obvious when you are looking?

Phantasium posted:

On the edit party menu, if you press triangle (or equivalent) it just clears out the slot.

I tried Code Vein that way but it was just tedious and made me quit, bosses in that game love doing two heals worth of damage and also inflicting punishing debuffs, having a boss with slow is just egregious. I should probably try that game again with party members on, but also it was an aggressively okay game.

Oh ok I feel like now I need to try it out solo after I finish this run. As for Code Vein it kinda reminds me of SoP due to the class system but SoP has better combat and less confusing level design. It's definitely worth it if you like Souls game but unlike Team Ninja soulslike the combat isn't some masterpiece. I still think it's decent. I don't remember the bosses being too hard. I think there is some late game bosses that extremely cheap and like the first two bosses till you get hang of the game. But most of the game is easy. There is this invade mechanic where you can summon a horde to invade you. Those are nigh impossible, I managed to do them but they were so loving hard. Imagine in Dark Souls 1 if you had to fight like 5 black knights at once and they chase you. That was extremely unbalanced for solo and even with party.

Vermain posted:

I'm more sympathetic to Elden Ring being the way it is now that I've learned that it was developed coterminously with Sekiro by a different team, so the applicable lessons of Sekiro couldn't easily or readily be applied to ER. I do think that Wo Long is going in the right direction in terms of its own design: as much as I love Nioh 2, the number of systems and mechanical complexity of combat is incredibly daunting to pick up for most Souls-adjacent players who're used to combat being "mash light attack and dodge" and not much else. Hammering it down into something more recognizable lets them refine the combat flow and appeal to a broader audience that otherwise might've been alienated again.

Fair enough, I do think Fromsoft are still god tier developer but hopefully they take more risks in their next games like they did with Sekiro. I really wish Capcom or Platinum Games made a soulslike, that could have some crazy combat.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

I found that the bird’s unblockable projectile spike attack could be deflected just like any other unblockable, and if you did you actually reflected it back.

trying to block the homing lightning definitely hurt but I wasn’t sure if it was full damage or reduced. Not sure if you can outright deflect things like that either. Did anyone try to deflect that or the archers?

ReVerve
Jul 13, 2001

Select and make your first pick.


Biscuit Hider
I assume you can deflect any attack, I don't recall anything stated in the demo/tutorial as undeflectable.

If you deflect the 4 homing lighting balls from the bird you end up with full blue spirit. When doing that the bird gets to start another attack (because the projectiles are slow and the deflect animation) so you may end up deflecting those plus a follow-up or switch to blocking/whatever.

Archers shots can also be deflected.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Dang the boss fights are tough in SoP solo. I just went solo after finding out you can just choose Jack in the party. Did a few side quests and it was harder but not too bad. Now back to the main quest, I am facing Scorpion Lady. This poo poo is hard, it feels like you really need to take it solo while with the party you can just go ham break the bosses poise. Also playing mage seems a lot harder solo, can you set specific spells as part of combos?

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Ulio posted:

Dang the boss fights are tough in SoP solo. I just went solo after finding out you can just choose Jack in the party. Did a few side quests and it was harder but not too bad. Now back to the main quest, I am facing Scorpion Lady. This poo poo is hard, it feels like you really need to take it solo while with the party you can just go ham break the bosses poise. Also playing mage seems a lot harder solo, can you set specific spells as part of combos?

As far as taking it solo, don't sleep on Lightbringer. When a boss is solely attacking you it's usually possible to build back up two bars of mp by the time the gauge runs out, and having it active gives you more leeway to soul shield attacks. You don't actually have to time the parry 100%, it's just when you're not in Lightbringer your break gauge will run out pretty quick if you just hold it, but in Lightbringer you can pretty much just sit there and slightly drain the gauge faster than it would drain normally, giving some leeway on timing. And also in Lightbringer, as long as you're close to the boss when you soul shield attacks, you do permanent damage to their break gauge on a parry (even on ranged attacks). There's plenty of bosses where I just got up in their face and let them kill themselves while occasionally plinking during openings.

I don't think you can set spells like that, but most of the abilities for the mage weapon seem to be elemental in nature. But I've also been swapping my weapon on every mission and I'm approaching endgame and have maybe used each weapon for two missions a piece, lol.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Phantasium posted:

As far as taking it solo, don't sleep on Lightbringer. When a boss is solely attacking you it's usually possible to build back up two bars of mp by the time the gauge runs out, and having it active gives you more leeway to soul shield attacks. You don't actually have to time the parry 100%, it's just when you're not in Lightbringer your break gauge will run out pretty quick if you just hold it, but in Lightbringer you can pretty much just sit there and slightly drain the gauge faster than it would drain normally, giving some leeway on timing. And also in Lightbringer, as long as you're close to the boss when you soul shield attacks, you do permanent damage to their break gauge on a parry (even on ranged attacks). There's plenty of bosses where I just got up in their face and let them kill themselves while occasionally plinking during openings.

I don't think you can set spells like that, but most of the abilities for the mage weapon seem to be elemental in nature. But I've also been swapping my weapon on every mission and I'm approaching endgame and have maybe used each weapon for two missions a piece, lol.

Ok thats good advice, I didn't know lightbringer gave better spirit gauge basically. What jobs did you mainly use? This is my first main boss solo but I managed to get a similarly level side quest solo. I managed to get Marilith to her 2nd phase, by just spellshielding everything which builds mp and I spammed watera which is her weakness. I just watched some videos of people doing no hit runs on her solo but obviously they know all her patterns. I feel like I am not getting hit alot but any hit does so much dmg so basically 5 hit is 5 potions even if you don't fully get hit. Then changing spells in combat is kinda hard to do so I usually just stick to her elemental weakness and can't switch to heal in time.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Ulio posted:

Ok thats good advice, I didn't know lightbringer gave better spirit gauge basically. What jobs did you mainly use? This is my first main boss solo but I managed to get a similarly level side quest solo. I managed to get Marilith to her 2nd phase, by just spellshielding everything which builds mp and I spammed watera which is her weakness. I just watched some videos of people doing no hit runs on her solo but obviously they know all her patterns. I feel like I am not getting hit alot but any hit does so much dmg so basically 5 hit is 5 potions even if you don't fully get hit. Then changing spells in combat is kinda hard to do so I usually just stick to her elemental weakness and can't switch to heal in time.

Since I was swapping weapons around I was also swapping jobs around, and I also ended up doing no hit runs on every boss, so most of the abilities I've toyed with on higher level classes have not been as useful as the lower tier classes that just give you a damaging ability, at least to me; there's also a few that just make it harder to keep track if I got touched, like the ones that spend hp to do more damage or give you passive healing that I avoided. The constant swapping also meant I was using the unique abilities less on bosses and more in the stage itself, since there was time to play around there. But I'd say the best one is either the basic Swordfighter (it gives you an auto counter aura that negates damage and automatically attacks when hit), and likewise the Knight since it cause your counters to be damaging, but I've been a fan of anything that does damage, so I remember liking Breaker for Zantetsuken. For that matter, anything that instantly Soul Bursts an enemy whose break gauge is... broken like Zantetsuken does is great for bosses with adds.

Probably not a satisfying answer strategy-wise, most of my progress towards boss kills is just to relentlessly throw myself at them until I remember their patterns and find safe counters for what they do, most of the trouble points I've come across have been solved by figuring out something new about their pattern, usually involving baiting certain attacks by staying at certain distances. It also means when I was using spellcaster jobs I was using mp more for attack abilities rather than actual spells; Sage I completely leveled with anima shards just because it was the last job I needed to level but the mace weapon would be a while before it came up in my next level rotation.

Tortolia
Dec 29, 2005

Hindustan Electronics Employee of the Month, July 2008
Grimey Drawer
It doesn’t work on all bosses, but the funniest combo I did was axe berserker and red mage. Buff self with haste 3, use one of the lifesteal mp abilities from another job (blood weapon iirc), then just hulk out. You move and attack absurdly fast from the haste, you don’t care that berserking prevents potion use due to lifesteal, and axe has a bunch of hard multihit attacks you can combo into and a ton of stagger resistance.

I went in with that against the FF9 stage boss without knowing anything about it and the fight was over (on Hard) in like 75 seconds on the first attempt. Ran it again for the FF8 stage boss immediately after and won that on the second attempt.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Phantasium posted:

Since I was swapping weapons around I was also swapping jobs around, and I also ended up doing no hit runs on every boss, so most of the abilities I've toyed with on higher level classes have not been as useful as the lower tier classes that just give you a damaging ability, at least to me; there's also a few that just make it harder to keep track if I got touched, like the ones that spend hp to do more damage or give you passive healing that I avoided. The constant swapping also meant I was using the unique abilities less on bosses and more in the stage itself, since there was time to play around there. But I'd say the best one is either the basic Swordfighter (it gives you an auto counter aura that negates damage and automatically attacks when hit), and likewise the Knight since it cause your counters to be damaging, but I've been a fan of anything that does damage, so I remember liking Breaker for Zantetsuken. For that matter, anything that instantly Soul Bursts an enemy whose break gauge is... broken like Zantetsuken does is great for bosses with adds.

Probably not a satisfying answer strategy-wise, most of my progress towards boss kills is just to relentlessly throw myself at them until I remember their patterns and find safe counters for what they do, most of the trouble points I've come across have been solved by figuring out something new about their pattern, usually involving baiting certain attacks by staying at certain distances. It also means when I was using spellcaster jobs I was using mp more for attack abilities rather than actual spells; Sage I completely leveled with anima shards just because it was the last job I needed to level but the mace weapon would be a while before it came up in my next level rotation.

Ya I definitely can see this game has decent replayability with the bosses being fun and the jobs being so different. I finally managed to beat Marilith the giant scorpion lady, took me like multiple days playing few hours. I realized your posture bar takes almost no dmg from her asura projectile spam attack, I was trying to soul shield all of them because it looked cool but literally if you get hit by one attack you lost all your posture. I realized that you only needed to soul shield the last projectile to steal her ability. Once I realized blocking is better I think I got her in 3 times but before that I was literally ramming my head against her. In hindsight I don't think she was that hard even though it took me forever but I kept trying the same strat and it was my first main boss solo.


Tortolia posted:

It doesn’t work on all bosses, but the funniest combo I did was axe berserker and red mage. Buff self with haste 3, use one of the lifesteal mp abilities from another job (blood weapon iirc), then just hulk out. You move and attack absurdly fast from the haste, you don’t care that berserking prevents potion use due to lifesteal, and axe has a bunch of hard multihit attacks you can combo into and a ton of stagger resistance.

I went in with that against the FF9 stage boss without knowing anything about it and the fight was over (on Hard) in like 75 seconds on the first attempt. Ran it again for the FF8 stage boss immediately after and won that on the second attempt.

That sounds rad, it's like a completely different playstyle than ones I've been doing. The pugilist type jobs you build mp so fast but obviously you are in risk of getting hit at melee range, the monk class lets you eventually heal + increase your fists dmg. Sage is the other job I been using, I thought Sage was the poo poo when I was playing with party members since magic dmg is broken and your allies let you charge the max level spell. But solo vs the boss I found it more fairly balanced, it definitely still does the most dmg if you charge a spell up and its aoe but with no allies to pull aggro you have to be extremely patient. I feel like they scripted the Bosses in a way where the game thinks your always with allies so it's always trying to attack and it never lets up. But I've seen people do no hit chaos runs so I guess it's not impossible once you get the right job for w.e boss.

CharlestonJew
Jul 7, 2011

Illegal Hen

Ulio posted:

Ya I definitely can see this game has decent replayability with the bosses being fun and the jobs being so different. I finally managed to beat Marilith the giant scorpion lady, took me like multiple days playing few hours. I realized your posture bar takes almost no dmg from her asura projectile spam attack, I was trying to soul shield all of them because it looked cool but literally if you get hit by one attack you lost all your posture. I realized that you only needed to soul shield the last projectile to steal her ability. Once I realized blocking is better I think I got her in 3 times but before that I was literally ramming my head against her. In hindsight I don't think she was that hard even though it took me forever but I kept trying the same strat and it was my first main boss solo.

The Knight class was my crutch for bosses like this, specifically that same boss you were struggling with. Knight regens HP on parry, you recover break gauge super fast after a parry, and the parry timing is pretty generous, so you can pretty reliably block whatever she throws at you and regen any HP you lost thru mistakes/chip damage.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


CharlestonJew posted:

The Knight class was my crutch for bosses like this, specifically that same boss you were struggling with. Knight regens HP on parry, you recover break gauge super fast after a parry, and the parry timing is pretty generous, so you can pretty reliably block whatever she throws at you and regen any HP you lost thru mistakes/chip damage.

That sounds strong, I hate that the game doesn't show you what all the class trees, this would make it easier to see which ones are worth getting. Is it me or some advanced classes are better than expert? I mean you get higher stats on expert classes but some advance class have some really good unique abilities. After being stuck on Marilith for days, I got the boss(zombie drake) right after in 1 try. I tried the berserker class and man it's so fun. I also realized I wasn't using the command abilities enough some of them make a huge difference, I only used lightbringer previously and sometimes chakra to get rid of poison. Berserker you do insane break dmg to their posture and you get huge buff to physical dmg with your special r2 move + a command ability that increases your attk speed. I think I killed the boss in under 1 minute. Once you lightbringer on top of all the berserker buffs you shred their posture bar.

Like so far every job I have tried I liked to some degree. I thought assassin was a bit hard to use due to low range and your attacks in this game don't really follow enemy. So you have to use abilities to follow them if you are normal attacks push them away from the range of your following normal attks. Definitely enjoying this game ALOT more solo. I thought it was decent when I was with party members but it was so freaking easy. You really have to use all the mechanics and strengths of your job class. Also the job affinity system is great, I know Nioh has it in armor pieces but the buffs are often not that good. In SoP if you have a matching set and really high affinity to your job you can get some insane game changing mechanics. So far I think this game might be one of the most underrated games I have played. I think it would have benefited to just be single player but I guess you can't make FF1 spinoff and have no party members. The loot spam is really even worse than Nioh. But looks like in Wo Long they have massively reduced the amount of loot. I know Team Ninja made Final Fantasy Dissidia so their relation with Square is good, I would kill for a spinoff like this with better performance for some of the other FF games. Like maybe FF4, FFVI, FFVII, FFX. Those games have much more recognizable characters as well.

a.p. dent
Oct 24, 2005
playing Nioh for the first time and it's pretty great. i'm in the 4th region now. things are getting a bit samey, but the play is good enough that i'm not stopping yet.

haven't interacted with the blacksmith at all, it seems way too complicated. now that i'm stance dancing it's super fun to run circles around everyone

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


a.p. dent posted:

playing Nioh for the first time and it's pretty great. i'm in the 4th region now. things are getting a bit samey, but the play is good enough that i'm not stopping yet.

haven't interacted with the blacksmith at all, it seems way too complicated. now that i'm stance dancing it's super fun to run circles around everyone

You can ignore the blacksmith until basically end game. There is so much loot vomit you will never need to upgrade your weapons in a normal run. The level design won't get any better, I do think the visuals of these games are under rated, these games run well and the design of enemies is cool. But ya the main strength is combat + bosses.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
Blacksmith only becomes relevant on the next difficulty setting where you can upgrade your current gear instead of replacing it.

So if you find something you like you can just keep using that.

Yes it's silly that it's locked behind higher difficulties but they really wanted the game to have lots of replay value. Most of the higher difficulties were added in later patches for longtime players.

WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Sep 29, 2022

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

If something seems like an optional and over complicated mechanic then it probably is and can be safely ignored by 90% of players. Wait until you get to Nioh 2 and it suggests you start organising feng shui in your teahouse and lets you join Clash Royale online kingdom battles.

Basically Nioh is secretly and inexplicably structured like a Diablo-like and is designed to be replayed over and over for 500 hours in randomly generated cave systems in a top secret high tier difficulty with a million different weapon upgrading mechanics, but if you ignore all of that you can still have great fun with a complete experience for a good 100 hours before that point. I find it baffling and scary but I can respect it

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
To be fair there's no procedurally generated environments, even the abyss is handcrafted.

Lunchmeat Larry
Nov 3, 2012

Ah, my mistake, I just assumed it was for some reason. I will never get to that point tbh

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Only real knock against Nioh 2, in my opinion, was that there were way too many stats. Like guddamn, each piece of equipment had no less than ten billion pieces of information on it and each can be built towards something. I by and large didn't mind the loot - that's the kind of game it is. It definitely affects my lizard OCD part of my brain where I have to pick up every piece of garbage off the ground. But if you ignore that part of the brain and focus on picking up certain colored items then it becomes more manageable.

But yeah, you can safely ignore all that in your first playthrough. You can find a set that gives good bonuses and adjust your playstyle to that bonus and it'll all work out. Or not, it's more about levels and skill in you first playthrough before gear is added to the equation in NG+. Honestly, the game is level-based and loot does add to the whole thing. If it didn't have loot then I don't think running those levels over and over again would have the same kind of appeal.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Lunchmeat Larry posted:

Ah, my mistake, I just assumed it was for some reason. I will never get to that point tbh

Can't blame you, Team Ninja's level design is basically on par with procedural generated levels. I do hate though people saying these games have bad visuals. I think the games look great in action, lots of cool effects and in most cases they run much better than Soulsborne series.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

I will always appreciate their insanely quick load times on death, I feel like I experiment more with their games because of it.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


Ya SoP has crazy fast load times on PS5, probably similar on PC with SSD.

Btw I just realized in SoP you can switch jobs at the end of the combo and you get this dash + you cancel your last animation and can go into another combo? How the f did I forget this mechanic. It's kinda like a ki flux into changing stance but the difference between a job and a stance is huge. You can be fighting a boss with your basic swordman sword/shield job if you stagger him with a combo switch to an assassin job and shred him with crits. I honestly can't believe I forgot about this mechanic because the dash you get from the job change at the end of a combo is huge and you can string another combo from your last combo. This is huge since the longest combo string is 3 regulars into > ability but with this you can get 3 regular + ability > 3 more regular + 1 ability. Honestly this game's mechanics are great, I had even forgot that there is a parry mechanic because I been mainly using the soulshield.I keep hearing people say Nioh 2 has better combat, I really need to get to that since Nioh 1 is one of my fav games of all time but SoP is getting up there as well. Been itching to actually replay Nioh 1, I never did the last dlc but I think you fight a Ninja Gaiden character?

Anyway with Woolong next year and Rise of Ronin the year after, looks like Team Ninja will keep putting out bangers and great soulslikes to play alongside Froms games.

ReVerve
Jul 13, 2001

Select and make your first pick.


Biscuit Hider
Ulio, SoP jobs with a command normal (direction + attack) can also be added to the end of the normal attack string before the ability. If you have a stolen move for cancels also, one can just keep pressing buttons.

Ulio
Feb 17, 2011


ReVerve posted:

Ulio, SoP jobs with a command normal (direction + attack) can also be added to the end of the normal attack string before the ability. If you have a stolen move for cancels also, one can just keep pressing buttons.

Oh wow I didn't know that. I always did 3 string into ability or 1-2 if I wanted to use another ability. I didn't know you can go from 3 > to direction then ability so basically then you can switch jobs to extend even more. That's crazy. I do know the stolen abilities are good for canceling. I literally didn't block for the first 50% of the game and just did the soulshield. But latter on I realized the block is really good and parry is better vs certain enemies.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

They released the survey results they received from the Wo Long demo, looks like most of the complaints I saw were addressed.

https://teamninja-studio.com/wolong/us/demo/feedback.html

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

Stranger of paradise on steam when?

Phantasium posted:

They released the survey results they received from the Wo Long demo, looks like most of the complaints I saw were addressed.

https://teamninja-studio.com/wolong/us/demo/feedback.html

This is all very encouraging.

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Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Gay Rat Wedding posted:

Stranger of paradise on steam when?


Epic exclusivity is usually either six months or a year, and it's been six months already so... March 2023, I guess.

Which is also when Wo Long is coming out, so we get two on steam in one month!

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