Doctor Who gapyear specials thread for 2022: Un-regenerating to RTD

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who gapyear specials thread for 2022: Un-regenerating to RTD

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The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

OldMemes posted:

It seems that the estate were quite inflexible on usage rights in the wilderness years, even up to the point of the new series - an entirely different draft of Dalek with no Dalek in it was written up just in case they pulled the rights last minute.

Aside from the two EDAs, the Daleks have really no appearances outside of Big Finish in that era. For example, iirc the Daleks were meant to play a role in the Faction Paradox arc of the BBC books before getting effectively written out.

In the later days of that range, it was quite heavily implied that the Daleks were the ones being the incredibly convoluted plan that became the main plotline. Due to issues with the rights, they were written out last minute and replaced with crystal skeletons of the Doctor's previous incarnations, because the EDAs were wild, to say the least.

The Enemy in the EDA Time War were never meant to be the Daleks.

# ? Sep 22, 2022 23:34

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:09

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Rochallor posted:

Looking at the list of Dalek stories, when was the last time we actually had a Dalek given orders? I think all the Whitaker appearances have been either a lone Dalek or a group of two or three working independently. Before that was the Davros two-parter, and the Daleks don't necessarily obey Davros. Into the Dalek was just a single Dalek, and after that we're back into Matt Smith territory.

On a largely unrelated note, can any long-time fans answer a question about the New Adventures and their use of the Daleks? I'd heard before I started reading that there were no Dalek stories in the NAs, which I assumed was a rights thing because I know they show up in the EDAs which were published by the BBC. However, the Daleks are frequently mentioned, one character carries their severed arms around as weapons, Ace leaves to fight in the Dalek Wars, Benny has a dream about one, etc. But a whole, real, non-dream Dalek never actually shows up. Is there some weird copyright thing where Daleks can't feature as main players in the NAs but only as cameos , or a limit on how many times you can use the word? The overall arc of the NAs is to do new stories with new villains, but there's plenty of books that are willing to really dive deep into continuity, so it seems odd to draw there, especially how often they're name-dropped. Do you have to pay Terry Nation's estate one-eighth of the appearance fee if you only include a Dalek arm?

It's been decades since I've read any of the NA (well, before I gave up on them), but do they actually mention Daleks, or do they do a sly thing like "The person had a arm of a defeated enemy; it was a metal tube with a sucker attachment on it."

# ? Sep 22, 2022 23:35

OldMemes: Sep 5, 2011; I have to go now. My planet needs me.

The_Doctor posted:

The Enemy in the EDA Time War were never meant to be the Daleks.

Oh no, not the Enemy, but the big bad who appeared after Gallifrey was destroyed. The Council of Eight were meant to be Daleks originally.

# ? Sep 22, 2022 23:37

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

OldMemes posted:

Oh no, not the Enemy, but the big bad who appeared after Gallifrey was destroyed. The Council of Eight were meant to be Daleks originally.

Oh, my bad! I lost interest in the EDAs near the end (sometime around Trix�s intro/Anji�s departure).

# ? Sep 23, 2022 00:09

Rochallor: Apr 23, 2010; ふっっっっっっっっっっっっｃｋ

Davros1 posted:

It's been decades since I've read any of the NA (well, before I gave up on them), but do they actually mention Daleks, or do they do a sly thing like "The person had a arm of a defeated enemy; it was a metal tube with a sucker attachment on it."

They explicitly say the word Dalek multiple times, but there is still aweird deniability where they never technically appear "on-screen" so to speak. For example, this passage is a dream sequence (and it made me laugh really hard so I wanted to share it):

quote:

Bernice dreamt that she was sharing a couple of bottles of Dom Perignon 2597 with Kadiatu, a Dalek, a Cyberman and a Sontaran officer named Grinx. So far the evening had gone reasonably well if you excused Grinx's unfortunate habit of belching after every glass. At least, no one had tried to exterminate anyone else.

'It's a question of moral choice,' said the Dalek. 'How can somebody be evil if they have no free choice over their actions?'

The Cyberman nodded sagely. 'Tinhead here is right,' it said. 'If a person is programmed to exterminate then they are effectively incapable of exercising a moral choice not to exterminate.'

'QED,' said Grinx and belched.

'It's you humans,' said the Dalek, 'that are capable of true evil because you have a choice in the matter.'

'And let's face it,' said the Cyberman, 'your track record is pretty lovely.'

'What about me then?' asked Kadiatu. 'It's all right for you guys, you all belong to cultures where ruthless and efficient termination of an enemy is acceptable behaviour, glorified even.'

'Oh yeah,' said the Dalek. 'Humans are famous for glorifying their peacemakers, well known philanthropists like Alexander the Great, Julius C�sar, Napoleon Bonaparte, Tshaka Zulu. These are the humans that get all the glory, the guys that get all the column inches.'

'There are others,' said Bernice. 'Gandhi...'

'Shot,' said the Dalek.

'Martin Luther King?'

'Also shot,' said the Cyberman.

'Nelson Mandela,' said Bernice. 'He wasn't shot.'

'Oh no,' said Grinx, 'they just locked him up for twenty-seven years.'

'I thought he was the one that got nailed to a cross,' said the Cyberman.

'That was Jesus Christ,' said Kadiatu.

'Whose side are you on?' Bernice asked her.

Kadiatu shrugged. 'I don't know,' she said. 'I thought that was what we were talking about.'

'At least we don't go around,' said the Dalek, 'saying, "We come in peace, shoot to kill".'

'Yes you do,' said Bernice. 'You do that sort of thing all the time.'

'Yes, yes, yes,' said the Dalek. 'But we know we're lying.'

Bernice poured another round of Dom Perignon. She became distracted by trying to work out how, exactly, the Dalek was drinking. The champagne just seemed to vanish whenever she wasn't looking. 'What about Davros?'

'Davros, Davros,' moaned the Dalek. 'Get into an argument with a human and they always bring up Davros. Look, do you think we like the misshapen little monomaniac? We've tried to do away with him more times than the Doctor has. He's our crukking creator � you want an argument about moral culpability, talk to him.' The Dalek lurched away from the table. 'I'm doing a bar run, does anything want something?'

'See if they've got any peanuts,' said Grinx. 'The dry roasted type.'

'What's your excuse then?' Bernice asked the Cyberman.

'I'm with tinhead,' said the Cyberman. 'It's a tough universe out there and it's only logical to get your licks in first. You'd be better off asking fatface there what his excuse is.'

Bernice turned to Grinx. 'Well?' she asked.

'Sorry, what was the question?'

The Dalek came back with the drinks. Grinx took his peanuts and ate the lot in one go, plastic packet and all.

'This is getting sodding nowhere,' said Bernice.

'It's your dream,' said Kadiatu.

'How do you know it's my dream?' asked Bernice.

'Because I have a better class of portentous dream,' said Kadiatu.

'How do you know it's not one of us having this dream?' asked the Dalek.

'Because �' began Bernice.

'We don't dream,' said the Dalek. 'Are you sure of that?'

Grinx stood up. 'I have a dream,' he said, 'that little Sontarans and little Rutans will one day walk through the streets of Mississippi, hand in tentacle . . .'

Everyone shouted at him to shut up and sit down. 'More of a nightmare really,' admitted Grinx.

'Will you guys chill out,' said the Cyberman. 'Seems to me the issue is whether the customized human here' � it indicated Kadiatu � 'has free will or not? If she has then you have to let her live; if she doesn't then she belongs with us and you can exterminate her with a clear conscience.'

'AM!xitsa says that she's been modifying her own brain chemistry,' said Bernice. 'Perhaps there's some kind of drug therapy that could "help" remove these antisocial tendencies.'

'You mean change her personality?' asked the Cyberman.

'Er, yes, I suppose so.'

'Make her into something she is not?' asked the Dalek.

'Tinker with her soul,' said Grinx.

'Just the bad bits,' said Bernice defensively.

'And they say we're bastards,' said the Cyberman.

'I'd rather die,' said Kadiatu.

'That is a distinct possibility,' said Bernice. 'You know that.'

Kadiatu laughed. It was a harsh, unnerving sound. The Cyberman and the Dalek were arguing about something in short bursts of compressed data. Kadiatu banged her palm on the table to get their attention. 'Bernice here,' she said to them, 'is having trouble making the correct decision.

Hands up all those that think she should kill me.'

Grinx and the Cyberman raised their hands.

'Is that a yes?' Bernice asked the Dalek.

'No, I'm crukking birdwatching, what do you think?'

Bernice sighed. The Cyberman, the Dalek and the Sontaran wandered off and left her alone with Kadiatu. A few minutes later there were screams and the sounds of gunfire and explosions as the three of them tried to exterminate each other.

They had also, she noticed, stiffed her with the bill.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 00:18

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

OldMemes posted:

Why don't the Daleks say "I obey" on TV anymore when being given orders.

You know what I miss? It hasn't really been a thing since the sixties but I used to love it when a Dalek would say something like,"WE WILL BE THE MASTERS OF THE EARTH!" and the other Daleks would kind of start mumbling,"Yes! We will be the Masters!" and actually like rumble in like they were conferring as they got each other more fired up to agree that YES! We will be the Masters of Earth!

It really nailed (at least in hindsight) the idea that the Daleks have this deepseated dread/fear that they are NOT the superior beings that every bit of their DNA has been hardwired to insist that they are, and they absolutely need constant reinforcement that things are as they should be.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 00:38

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

Rochallor posted:

They explicitly say the word Dalek multiple times, but there is still aweird deniability where they never technically appear "on-screen" so to speak. For example, this passage is a dream sequence (and it made me laugh really hard so I wanted to share it):

That's very Douglas Adams.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 00:55

Open Source Idiom: Jan 4, 2013

There is a single dalek NA story -- GodEngine, which manoeuvres around rights issues by only depicting the dalek creatures and not the shells. (The story is the Martian perspective on the Dalek Invasion of Earth).

Fankwank was generally heavily discouraged by the time you got around to the Steve Cole era of the EDAs. It was a big part of why they had the Doctor lose his memory so aggressively under Justin Richards, similar to John Nathan-Turner's eradication of the sonic screwdriver.

I'm a pretty big fan of the EDAs overall. Lots of really great stories in the back half of the run.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 04:21

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

If you don't find it extremely funny that writers had to work around not including Daleks through use of stock footage, 'they're just off-screen' and technically not showing the iconic design in entirely text-based novels then I don't understand your sense of humor.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 04:44

Autisanal Cheese: Nov 29, 2010

And I assume Big Finish got some kind of deal to use the Daleks, when the books couldn't? Probably involving Dalek Empire?

# ? Sep 23, 2022 05:25

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

Crapilicious posted:

And I assume Big Finish got some kind of deal to use the Daleks, when the books couldn't? Probably involving Dalek Empire?

It was about a year into the monthly line when they got the rights and they pretty quickly gave the three Doctors they had at the time their own Dalek story.

# ? Sep 23, 2022 15:12

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

American Dad did this one already, but they didn�t have Nigel Havers, so we�ll call this a win.

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1573721933312659458

# ? Sep 24, 2022 21:45

Maxwell Lord: Dec 12, 2008; I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.; Grimey Drawer

Jerusalem posted:

You know what I miss? It hasn't really been a thing since the sixties but I used to love it when a Dalek would say something like,"WE WILL BE THE MASTERS OF THE EARTH!" and the other Daleks would kind of start mumbling,"Yes! We will be the Masters!" and actually like rumble in like they were conferring as they got each other more fired up to agree that YES! We will be the Masters of Earth!

It really nailed (at least in hindsight) the idea that the Daleks have this deepseated dread/fear that they are NOT the superior beings that every bit of their DNA has been hardwired to insist that they are, and they absolutely need constant reinforcement that things are as they should be.

One highlight of The Chase (among many) is how some of the Daleks are clearly not working at the pace of the others

WELL SEE TO IT

# ? Sep 25, 2022 02:26

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Maxwell Lord posted:

One highlight of The Chase (among many) is how some of the Daleks are clearly not working at the pace of the others

WELL SEE TO IT

Is that the one with the one Dalek REALLY struggling with math problems? :3:

# ? Sep 25, 2022 02:37

Confusedslight: Jan 9, 2020

I asked in the discord and thought I would I ask here as well. would people potentially be interested in doing a watchathon thing together? Again just an idea. But we could choose something like the 50th or something and comment as we watch it.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 02:43

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Yes, though timing/availability is always an issue - but any excuse to watch the 50th again is just fine by me :hellyeah:

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Sep 25, 2022

# ? Sep 25, 2022 02:47

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

The_Doctor posted:

American Dad did this one already, but they didn�t have Nigel Havers, so we�ll call this a win.

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1573721933312659458

Is this "My Mother The Car" or "Turboteen"--the Torchwood version?

# ? Sep 25, 2022 03:06

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

Confusedslight posted:

I asked in the discord and thought I would I ask here as well. would people potentially be interested in doing a watchathon thing together? Again just an idea. But we could choose something like the 50th or something and comment as we watch it.

I think something could be coordinated, depending on the gap between the Power of the Doctor and RTD's next episode.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 04:23

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Edward Mass posted:

I think something could be coordinated, depending on the gap between the Power of the Doctor and RTD's next episode.

That would be 2 months, 3 days.

# ? Sep 25, 2022 11:47

McGann: May 19, 2003; Get up you son of a bitch! 'Cause Mickey loves you!

Astroman posted:

Is this "My Mother The Car" or "Turboteen"--the Torchwood version?

Either way, somebody is gonna gently caress that car.

# ? Sep 26, 2022 17:45

Autisanal Cheese: Nov 29, 2010

McGann posted:

Either way, somebody is gonna gently caress that car.

Hopefully consensually, knowing Torchwood.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 06:21

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Here he cums in a ruddy great tractor. :pervert:

# ? Sep 27, 2022 13:29

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

https://twitter.com/bigfinish/status/1574760861629091843?t=0S4XZCa-ZuQxkhH7e5JDZw&s=19

# ? Sep 27, 2022 15:12

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

Just started the hour-long raw visual effects feature of Frontier in Space. Wish me luck.

# ? Sep 28, 2022 21:57

99 CENTS AMIGO: Jul 22, 2007

I remember absolutely loving Frontier in Space and that carrying over into also loving Planet of the Daleks. Just pure Pertwee fun.

# ? Sep 28, 2022 22:29

Zaroff: Nov 10, 2009; Nothing in the world can stop me now!

Edward Mass posted:

Just started the hour-long raw visual effects feature of Frontier in Space. Wish me luck.

This is the kind of thing I love having on the blurays along with things like a days worth of Season 24 raw footage.

I don�t think I�ll ever watch it, but I�m glad it�s there!

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:01

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Zaroff posted:

This is the kind of thing I love having on the blurays along with things like a days worth of Season 24 raw footage.

I don�t think I�ll ever watch it, but I�m glad it�s there!

Watch it, or you're a cowardly cutlet!

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:36

Ignis: Mar 31, 2011; I take it you don't want my autograph, then.

I'm catching up on Thirteen's run before her last special. Just finished S11, and between Resolution's touch grass gag and Broadchurch S3's hilariously out of touch porn subplot ("Your son is dealing porn links, Ms. Colman!! :stare:

") I'm getting the impression Chris Chibnall doesn't like the internet very much

# ? Sep 29, 2022 06:05

Edward Mass: Sep 14, 2011; 𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen𝅘𝅥𝅮

If he didn't like the internet then, just imagine what he thinks of it now!

# ? Sep 29, 2022 06:06

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

Ignis posted:

I'm catching up on Thirteen's run before her last special. Just finished S11, and between Resolution's touch grass gag and Broadchurch S3's hilariously out of touch porn subplot ("Your son is dealing porn links, Ms. Colman!! ") I'm getting the impression Chris Chibnall doesn't like the internet very much

My own march through Chibnall is stalled at the witchfinder episode. Maybe I'll push my way through a couple more tonight since I'm on the road.

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:23

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

On the subject of bad writing from DW showrunners, the Mystery of the Week in Moffat�s new drama�why is a man keeps getting payments a few days after he sleeps with his wife?�makes the end of Sherlock season 4 look good.

It turns out his wife found out he sexually assaulted several women thirty years ago, and she�s skeeved out by it and decides to go through therapy. She asks one of his victims � who is in his employ � to cook the company�s books so she can pay for it without him knowing. But she�s short-sighted so instead of reading the text message as �pay therapist�, she reads �pay the rapist�. :stonk:

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:24

Dabir: Nov 10, 2012

gently caress off, Steven

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:31

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

TinTower posted:

On the subject of bad writing from DW showrunners, the Mystery of the Week in Moffat�s new drama�why is a man keeps getting payments a few days after he sleeps with his wife?�makes the end of Sherlock season 4 look good.

It turns out his wife found out he sexually assaulted several women thirty years ago, and she�s skeeved out by it and decides to go through therapy. She asks one of his victims � who is in his employ � to cook the company�s books so she can pay for it without him knowing. But she�s short-sighted so instead of reading the text message as �pay therapist�, she reads �pay the rapist�.

I.... that.... this isn't.... how can.... what? WHAT!?! :cripes:

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:43

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

That feels so stupid that it feels like it'd be a brief gag in Family Guy.

I'd say you could punch it up to being a Simpsons-quality joke, but the Simpsons wouldn't have joked about something like that.

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:55

Matinee: Sep 15, 2007

Good lord that�s bad. Literally a (not especially good) throwaway gag from Arrested Development.

Finally, an even bigger �oh, gently caress off, Steven� moment than the twist at the end of ep 2 of Dracula

# ? Sep 29, 2022 13:59

Sydney Bottocks: Oct 15, 2004

Matinee posted:

Good lord that’s bad. Literally a (not especially good) throwaway gag from Arrested Development.

Finally, an even bigger “oh, gently caress off, Steven” moment than the twist at the end of ep 2 of Dracula

It's even older than that; there was a 1970s Benny Hill skit about a signmaker whose client was outraged that his sign read

"MR DRUDGE
THE RAPIST"

Also Steven Moffat was Always Bad and his run on DW was what made me throw in the towel on NuWho and I'm glad to be proven right once more :v:

# ? Sep 29, 2022 16:19

Fair Bear Maiden: Jun 17, 2013

TinTower posted:

On the subject of bad writing from DW showrunners, the Mystery of the Week in Moffat�s new drama�why is a man keeps getting payments a few days after he sleeps with his wife?�makes the end of Sherlock season 4 look good.

It turns out his wife found out he sexually assaulted several women thirty years ago, and she�s skeeved out by it and decides to go through therapy. She asks one of his victims � who is in his employ � to cook the company�s books so she can pay for it without him knowing. But she�s short-sighted so instead of reading the text message as �pay therapist�, she reads �pay the rapist�.

Genuinely baffling that the same dude could have written The Empty Child.

EDIT: Like, with RTD, with few exceptions, I can see the same person behind the highs and the lows. But this just feels like a parody skit. Like, what the hell.

# ? Sep 29, 2022 18:49

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

I guess "FROM THE CREATOR OF SHERLOCK" gives you a lot of free passes to have anything you drop onto a commissioning editor's desk immediately greenlit. (Even though Sherlock went off the rails to such an extent that I still can't be bothered to watch the final episode.)

# ? Sep 29, 2022 21:58

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Payndz posted:

(Even though Sherlock went off the rails to such an extent that I still can't be bothered to watch the final episode.)

You chose.... wisely.

If it wasn't for Game of Thrones, Sherlock would probably be the go-to example of how to make an excellent show that shits the bed so badly on its final season (the Toby Jones episode aside) that it makes it hard to even go back and watch the really good early seasons.

# ? Sep 29, 2022 22:39

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 10:09

TinTower: Apr 21, 2010; You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.

Remember when the Sherlock series finale was so bad people on Tumblr started believing in a (all together now�) Secret Good Fourth Episode?

# ? Sep 29, 2022 23:31

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who gapyear specials thread for 2022: Un-regenerating to RTD

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