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any more than usual e: jeez that's the worst snipe sorry. i don't have anything constructive to add
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 05:20 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:35 |
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nrook posted:It’s difficult to say the best way Carlsen could have gone about this, but it’s not at all difficult to come up with a better way. If nothing else, he could have withdrawn from the Sinquefield Cup before it started, allowing the organizers to find a replacement player. Similarly, he could have withdrawn from the tournament going on right now. Fabi said in his latest podcast that Carlsen did want to withdraw before Sinquefield started. I don't know what his contract looked like and you don't either, but with contracts it is certainly not as simple as "hey guys I decided not to play". Especially for the Chess24 stuff where he is a part owner of a company that is in the process of being purchased.
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 06:02 |
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This is completely irrelevant to anything, but I remember a pro CS:GO player got VAC banned in the middle of a match. The thought of an arbiter stopping a chess game in progress and letting a player know that they've been banned for cheating gave me a light chuckle.
qsvui fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 23, 2022 |
# ? Sep 23, 2022 07:27 |
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Nepo dropped a vid where he elaborates OTB cheating is actually a thing, and that he himself went to the organisers to beef up security (and was denied) when he found out Niemann was participating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7WhzbZPmE Very clearly implies he thinks Niemann is a GM level player using some sort of assistance - although he admits that's just his feeling. It seems Niemann being a cheater is open knowledge among top players lol. This drama owns #teamchaos dex_sda fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Sep 23, 2022 |
# ? Sep 23, 2022 12:15 |
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qsvui posted:This is completely irrelevant to anything, but I remember a pro CS:GO player got VAC banned in the middle of a match. The thought of an arbiter stopping a chess game in progress and letting a player know that they've been banned for cheating gave me a light chuckle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z-kmSF5Qxk This? Or maybe also this. Maybe this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meb8T-9hGc8 totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Sep 23, 2022 |
# ? Sep 23, 2022 13:58 |
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Are any of the big russian players part of the current mobilization? Where does Nepo live?
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 20:00 |
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busalover posted:Are any of the big russian players part of the current mobilization? Where does Nepo live? Nepo gave up his Russian citicenship in february right after the invasion started, iirc.
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 20:23 |
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Danny Rensch says a bit more about how they look for cheaters here, and apparently they consulted with MLB on the Astros sign-stealing scandal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIMIfjYNZ1A One thing he notes is that one of the signs of cheating isn't just the peaks, but also the absence of valleys. This isn't just "algorithm helps me not blunder" but, in the case of something like a situational signal, it means a kind of critical error avoidance because you know it's not a critical situation.
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 21:40 |
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Yeah it was an interesting talk, the example he gave of the Houston Astros chasing pitches out of the strike zone far more frequently than they would of done otherwise (something that would conventionally be considered a bad process for a baseball player) precisely because they know what pitch is coming is an interesting one. From that I take he is trying to make a point that it's not simply a question of how frequently you are playing excellent moves and how frequently you are avoiding playing the bad moves, the algorithm they operate can sense larger stylistic or pattern based anomalies in the player's games...
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 22:03 |
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Ignoring the drama side of the drama, it’s been interesting hearing the discourse about what cheating would look like. I would have never thought that something like the equivalent of someone walking by and tapping you on the
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 22:32 |
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I wasn't aware that Nepo had changed his citizenship (I feel it'd be bigger news if he did?) or even switched federation like some other players. He did publicly oppose the war, but so did Dubov and Esipenko and both of them just played in the Russian Championship the past week.
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 22:50 |
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Promethium posted:I wasn't aware that Nepo had changed his citizenship (I feel it'd be bigger news if he did?) or even switched federation like some other players. He did publicly oppose the war, but so did Dubov and Esipenko and both of them just played in the Russian Championship the past week. He attended without country at the candidates. The same as happened with Alireza a few years ago, when he left Iran for the tournament and just stayed in France. I assume that Nepo also hasn't returned to Russia since that.
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# ? Sep 23, 2022 23:58 |
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VictualSquid posted:He attended without country at the candidates. Russia is suspended so all Russian players are playing under the FIDE flag right now. Makes for a funny sight when you look at the Russian Superfinal:
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 00:01 |
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I'm sure Karjakin presented himself to the nearest recruiter as soon as the proclamation was made.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 00:53 |
dupersaurus posted:Ignoring the drama side of the drama, it’s been interesting hearing the discourse about what cheating would look like. I would have never thought that something like the equivalent of someone walking by and tapping you on the My bet would be, if we see anything, the mechanism will be derived from what has already been tried in poker/blackjack/casinos.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 04:03 |
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dex_sda posted:Nepo dropped a vid where he elaborates OTB cheating is actually a thing, and that he himself went to the organisers to beef up security (and was denied) when he found out Niemann was participating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7WhzbZPmE I think Andrew Tang and Maurice Ashley also mentioned that they knew or at least suspected Hans of cheating in the past
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 04:17 |
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obviously I'm very new to chess but it's kind of funny coming at this with a motorsport fan background where cheating is "they made the entire car at 7/8 scale and nobody noticed" or "there was an extra brake installed on the car" or "they had illegal launch control, but simply refused to hand over the computer code" to he played Qf6. Obviously this is not something a human would do. edit: like I get it, using a computer is obviously such an extreme advantage, but I'm talking about the methodology of actually detecting cheaters just by the moves they make. stratdax fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Sep 24, 2022 |
# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:11 |
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stratdax posted:obviously I'm very new to chess but it's kind of funny coming at this with a motorsport fan background where cheating is "they made the entire car at 7/8 scale and nobody noticed" or "there was an extra brake installed on the car" or "they had illegal launch control, but simply refused to hand over the computer code" oh there are more...direct methods of detecting cheating. quote:At the 2013 Cork Congress Chess Open, a 16-year-old player was found to be using a chess program on a smartphone when his opponent confronted him in the toilets by kicking down the cubicle door and physically hauling him out. The opponent received a ten-month ban for violent conduct. The 16-year-old player was banned for four months for cheating.[75][76][77] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_chess#Historical Also lol quote:Mr Mirza (47) has said he is proud of what he did after kicking in the cubicle door at the Metropole Hotel and hauling out his opponent before organisers of the tournament intervened. Salt Fish fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Sep 24, 2022 |
# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:22 |
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stratdax posted:obviously I'm very new to chess but it's kind of funny coming at this with a motorsport fan background where cheating is "they made the entire car at 7/8 scale and nobody noticed" or "there was an extra brake installed on the car" or "they had illegal launch control, but simply refused to hand over the computer code" Unrelated, but my favorite example of "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" is making the fuel line so wide that it held extra gallons of fuel for fewer pit stops.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:36 |
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Salt Fish posted:oh there are more...direct methods of detecting cheating. The opponent received a ten-month ban for violent conduct. The 16-year-old player was banned for four months for cheating hahaha shows where the priorities lie.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:43 |
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stratdax posted:The opponent received a ten-month ban for violent conduct. The 16-year-old player was banned for four months for cheating The dude should have gotten a lifetime ban, he physically attacked a child.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:48 |
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dupersaurus posted:Ignoring the drama side of the drama, it’s been interesting hearing the discourse about what cheating would look like. I would have never thought that something like the equivalent of someone walking by and tapping you on the There have been some elaborate methods: Wikipedia posted:In October 2010, Feller scored 6/9 (+5 =2 -2) during the 39th Chess Olympiad and won the Gold medal for best individual performance on board 5. However, the French Chess Federation accused Feller, along with French players GM Arnaud Hauchard and IM Cyril Marzolo, of cheating during the Olympiad. While Feller was in the playing hall, Marzolo was in France where he checked the best moves on the computer. Marzolo then allegedly sent the move in coded pairs of numbers by SMS to Hauchard. Once Hauchard had the suggested move, he would position himself in the hall behind one of the other players’ tables in a predefined coded system, where each table represented a move to play. The French Chess Federation claims, in all, 200 text messages were sent during the tournament. Apparently, the dude ended up going to prison for this qsvui fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Sep 24, 2022 |
# ? Sep 24, 2022 05:52 |
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AnacondaHL posted:My bet would be, if we see anything, the mechanism will be derived from what has already been tried in poker/blackjack/casinos. Or magic - thumpers have been a thing for five decades, and a GM (which I think the top agree Niemann is strong enough to actually be) would only need a few clues with it a game to gain a bit of rating. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Sep 24, 2022 |
# ? Sep 24, 2022 07:16 |
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qsvui posted:There have been some elaborate methods: So did each turn take 5 minutes and there was just a dude constantly sprinting around to different tables? The amount of prep and memorization that must have taken is impressive.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 20:43 |
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stratdax posted:So did each turn take 5 minutes and there was just a dude constantly sprinting around to different tables? The amount of prep and memorization that must have taken is impressive. This probably goes back to some of the earlier discussions, where he'd only walk into a spot if it was a critical position. This creates the added benefit that if he's not in any spot, Feller knows it's not a critical position so he can play normal-looking moves quickly.
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# ? Sep 24, 2022 20:57 |
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That entire tournament was a bit brutal. Carlsen appears to be in the shape of his life.
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# ? Sep 25, 2022 18:48 |
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i haven’t had one person play a queen’s gambit against me all week, i wanted to resign on move 2 for the lols
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# ? Sep 25, 2022 19:53 |
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Drama update: people are checking hans OTB games going back a few years and finding 100% accuracy for top engine moves in an unexpected number of games. Many of his games are 90%+ top engine especially in a 5 tournament streak. Similar comparisons to Bobby Fischer show he never had a 100% game in his entire career. Arjun Erigasi for example has one 100% game (10 move opening trap). https://twitter.com/IglesiasYosha/status/1574374153997647874 Meanwhile chess.com released this mysterious statement: Currently Hikaru is streaming and analyzing his games for % of top engine moves and he is around 50-70% with one example of an 80% game which he considers his best game ever played.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 20:26 |
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Oh hell yes, I was worried this was dying down.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 20:30 |
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https://twitter.com/MagnusCarlsen/status/1574482694406565888
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 20:35 |
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I think Magnus hosed up by playing that game against Hans. If he'd withdrawn like he says he wanted, the reactions would be way different. Losing and talking about the bad vibes you got just isn't good enough... even if you're right!
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 20:49 |
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Redmark posted:I think Magnus hosed up by playing that game against Hans. If he'd withdrawn like he says he wanted, the reactions would be way different. Losing and talking about the bad vibes you got just isn't good enough... even if you're right! One other recent drama bit is that last month Hans and Magnus played a few games at the beach: Alireza was at the event and spoke about it on some podcast recently and reported that Magnus played the black pieces twice and won both games in a blowout fashion, essentially 20 move victories that were very convincing. There is some speculation that this fed into Magnus' suspicion during game 1 of the Sinquefield cup game.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 20:55 |
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Hand Knit posted:Oh hell yes, I was worried this was dying down.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:23 |
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I want to underline the part where Carlsen says that he felt Niemann wasn't tense or concentrating at the right points. This isn't because this is something I've heard of how players think they spot cheaters (though it is), but because it also furthers the possibility that in the case that he wasn't cheating Niemann still trolled himself out of a career by being a giant goon.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:37 |
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It's ridiculous that FIDE seems to have no real anti-cheating authority, so we just get random amateurs coming out of the woodwork doing half baked statistical analysis.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:46 |
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Salt Fish posted:Drama update: people are checking hans OTB games going back a few years and finding 100% accuracy for top engine moves in an unexpected number of games. Many of his games are 90%+ top engine especially in a 5 tournament streak. Similar comparisons to Bobby Fischer show he never had a 100% game in his entire career. Arjun Erigasi for example has one 100% game (10 move opening trap). lol if this analysis is even close to accurate then he's cheating 100%.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:53 |
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Salt Fish posted:One other recent drama bit is that last month Hans and Magnus played a few games at the beach: That's interesting too. On the whole, I think I have to trust the literal GOAT on this one, from all the stuff we heard.
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:54 |
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at this point 1) I believe Hans has been cheating his rear end off and 2) I'm glad of it lol lmao
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:54 |
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VROOM VROOM posted:at this point 1) I believe Hans has been cheating his rear end off and 2) I'm glad of it lol lmao
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# ? Sep 26, 2022 21:56 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:35 |
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I mean that move accuracy thing isn't the be all and end all, like if a top level GM was playing one of us (and trying their hardest) their move accuracy would likely approach or be at 100%.. we would gently caress up in the opening or the midgame and it would be trivially easy for them to exploit whatever mistakes we make and get the quick win, conceivably only playing the top engine moves.. That accuracy measurement is partially a measure of how many difficult choices you are presented with by your opponent. I can see where Hikaru's best game ever was only at 80% if it was a brilliant tactical masterpiece where he crushed an ultra strong opponent who doesn't normally get crushed.. That being said, I'm assuming that Hans wasn't playing people that were that much weaker than him in these tournaments so 10 different games at 100% accuracy is probably impossible to achieve without cheating unless they were all pre-arranged games using known drawing lines lol Salt Fish posted:One other recent drama bit is that last month Hans and Magnus played a few games at the beach: Fabiano Caruana brought this up on his podcast, he said it was a marketing shoot. It was pointed out that the two were apparently in high spirits during this photo shoot and laughing it up and there didn't seem to be any tension between them, but Fabiano pointed out that this was a gimmick PR event and not to read anything into what was going on there.. I'd say the same conclusion applies to the results of the chess games, who knows what the deal was there.. Hans may have just been loving around during the whole thing.. **Fabiano did also bring up kind of a comparable "red flag" event where I guess Hans tied for first place in a really high level GM tournament and ended up having to play blitz chess against Vincent Keymer to decide the winner. I guess Hans got absolutely smoked to the point where it was almost laughable and the consensus amongst alot of the players there was that he was a cheat. Caruana pointed out that the results of something like a blitz game or that game that Hans and Magnus were playing on the beach are completely meaningless, everyone gets crushed in blitz one time or another, but he used it as an example about how every tournament Hans has played in for a while now everyone is looking at him side eyed as a cheater and every unsuspected success he has just fuels the flames.. Starsfan fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Sep 26, 2022 |
# ? Sep 26, 2022 22:19 |