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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I love all of them even though the perspective makes no goddamn sense in the second one. Also Frank's left leg just kind of awkwardly treading water behind that jet ski in the third one.
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Sep 27, 2022 03:52
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Heavy Metal posted:I would love to hear your review/impressions on all these old Punisher comics. And in general are you reading all these ol' yarns, or flipping through them, reading blogs on them etc? It was interesting coming to it from Quasar, which was loaded with little Marvel characters from all over the continuity popping in for an issue or two, as Punisher v2 goes without visits from characters occupying other parts of the Marvel universe, for the most part. Kingpin is the one most likely to turn up, then Daredevil, then Wolverine (because Wolverine). That made stuff like the Reavers jumping over from Australia to attack Frank's warehouse, or Castle visiting Doom in Latveria to chat about a bounty on his head feel all that more amusing or out-of-place. That said, props to the "Eurohit" storyline (#64-#70) for including Batroc and the Tarantula without it seeming too ludicrous, even with trash-talk about each other's kickboxing abilities. I also enjoyed that storyline for taking Frank on a run through country after country, which is something that hadn't really been used in the series until that point. Sure, Punisher might be in, say, Colombia in one story, then an Iraq stand-in in the next, but there wasn't connective tissue between the two, or making the trip between them part of the story, until "Eurohit." So I'd say writing off the main series after issue 25 would be doing yourself a disservice if you've enjoyed it up to that point. Another point of amusement comes in the kinks of the CCA enforcement; kill off a hundred villains in an issue, sure, but Castle can't say "hell." So I'm making good progress through the series, and then I hit #85, which starts a storyline with issues in The Punisher War Journal. So now (after doing a quick run through assorted Punisher one-shots like The Prize, Return to Big Nothing, and Bloodlines) I'm working through that series, to catch up to that point. And v2 will end with a storyline that has issues not just in War Journal, but in The Punisher: War Zone as well, so I'll have to do a catch-up run on that series eventually. Actually, looking it over right now, it looks like the "Suicide Run" storyline starting in mainline #85 has two issues in War Zone, so I'll be tackling that sooner than I thought. War Journal seems to be more willing to include superheroes and more fantastical stuff (one of the early issues has Punisher protecting surviving dinosaurs in Africa, with a guest spot from Wolverine), and feels like it has advance storylines thought out more, with a bunch of breadcrumbs for future storylines dropped at the end of the first issue. Mainline Punisher v2 feels a lot more likely to throw in a filler issue, or dig out an unused script, especially once it hits a bi-monthly schedule. Thing is, sometimes those are more satisfying than the more drawn-out stories, and they tend to have fewer fumbling attempts at overt moralizing. Having Frank narrow his focus to a specific, localized problem, then blast through it (optimally running into someone capable enough to flip the tables on him for a few pages, and without Frank flashing back to his origin) tends to deliver a more visceral scenario. I haven't hit as many outright ridiculous sequences as I was expecting, but some Punisher panels will definitely be showing up in the Funny Panels thread in the near future. Most absurd cover so far would be this one, which could almost be a Pat Mills parody piece.
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Sep 27, 2022 05:03
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Grendels Dad posted:Also Frank's left leg just kind of awkwardly treading water behind that jet ski in the third one. Yeah that’s a liefeldian foot if i ever saw one (i know it’s Jim lee)
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Sep 27, 2022 05:54
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Darthemed posted:I'm reading through these, issue by issue. Right on, that's awesome. Digging into stuff like this is always fun. Also on Pat Mills, I love a few of his stories (Judge Dredd's Cursed Earth, ABC Warriors The Black Hole, etc), been meaning to read Slaine, I know he can be a bit nutty with the chaos and anarchy. Cool to hear you're digging The Punisher. Do you have say another 5 to 10 standout cool issues after v2 25? I don't mind dabbling, and I read a lower quantity, but I'm always curious about gems. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 06:01
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#26 and #27 are a two-parter that's enjoyable, they involve rescuing a whistle-blower and coming up against the US Navy. #42 has Castle taking on a CSA video ring; the main draw here is arguably to see how much Mike Baron has to dance around the details of that plot. #43 is a one-shot taking Castle to Mexico; what I most liked about this issue is a spoiler, so you can save this until after reading the issue: Frank sends himself down there on a death-avenging mission he's convinced himself the victim's wife wants, which leaves him with unsatisfied bloodlust at the end. Brushes up against Castle's shortsightedness and delusional justifications in ways that better stories would expand on. It also has some heavy-inked artwork, which I liked, but that's even more a matter of personal preference. #44 (hey, they really had a streak going here) mixes performance art flag-burning with the volatility of a run-down former automotive plant town in the south. It also has Frank whining about rap music. #45 is one of those self-contained stories I was praising in the previous post. Someone is killing cab drivers, so Frank poses as one to track the killer down. #52 I mentioned in the last post. #60 is the first issue after a seven-issue story arc that takes Frank to prison, and ended with him getting plastic surgery so that no one would recognize him. The last issue gave a last-page reveal of the results, but this is the first full issue to deal with what Mike Baron decided to do with that set-up. Arguably the first step towards subsequent treatments of the character like 'Frank Castle is divinely empowered' and 'Frank Castle is a Frankenstein creature.' #71 is the first issue following the seven-issue story arc of "Eurohit," and features Frank coming back to his usual stomping grounds after that international romp. He then decides things have gotten too unruly in his absence, and goes on a clean-up mission to eliminate a bunch of small fish. Kind of feels like a precursor to the Max series in its pacing and sweep. #80 kind of flips the usual formula on its head by giving us the perspective of a criminal for most of the issue, showing how hunted he feels once he's crossed the path of the Punisher. And for an anti-recommendation, there's #81, which really didn't gel for me. That's mainly because of the art, done by Hoang Nguyen, who shows up to provide pencils and inks for this issue, and then doesn't show up again for the rest of the series' run. Not terrible art, just not at all in line with the average style that had been used by the numerous art teams that rotated through the series before then. Here's the front cover:  And the first page:  Something tells me he might have been on a time crunch. Reading through these has also turned a small irritation about Frank having a vacuum-sealed suit into a big annoyance. Reed Richards isn't sending Frank unstable molecules for Christmas, and his suit is packed with kevlar; it should have some looseness and slack to it, so all the gunfire he takes to the chest isn't one-to-one transferring the impact into his sternum. But wanting thought to be put into the costuming of early-'90s Marvel characters is just another form of masochism, so whatever.
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Sep 27, 2022 06:58
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Much thanks! And thank you the 90s.
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Sep 27, 2022 07:17
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Darthemed posted:Engaging story, but it also had this cover art. This is amazing on so many levels. I’d just stopped chuckling when I noticed the changed Marvel logo box in the top left. It’s all so, so wrong, yet so, so good.
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Sep 27, 2022 08:30
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I love all of them even though the perspective makes no goddamn sense in the second one. I can only assume the gun was added later by someone else, or maybe what was supposed to be part of the pipes was coloured as gun by mistake, as it seems to be closer to the viewer than the guy it's pointed at.
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Sep 27, 2022 09:26
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Heavy Metal posted:Right on, that's awesome. Digging into stuff like this is always fun. Also on Pat Mills, I love a few of his stories (Judge Dredd's Cursed Earth, ABC Warriors The Black Hole, etc), been meaning to read Slaine, I know he can be a bit nutty with the chaos and anarchy. Absolutely read Slaine. Not only are they all good stories, you'll also get art from Fabry, Bisley, Staples, Langley, Simon Davis and of course Massimo Belardinelli (although by repute he didn't like working on it). Just remember it's pronounced SLAW-nyuh, or Pat Mills will die just so he can rise from his grave and get you.
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Sep 27, 2022 09:33
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Good to know! Thanks, always appreciate when a backlog title gets recommended, gives it a mighty bump up the list.
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Sep 27, 2022 09:51
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Darthemed posted:. That said, props to the "Eurohit" storyline (#64-#70) for including Batroc and the Tarantula without it seeming too ludicrous, even with trash-talk about each other's kickboxing abilities. That Doug Braithwaite fight between Batroc and Tarantula is one of my favourite comic book throwdowns, to the point I took my av from it.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:39
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i should get back to reading old punisher. i think i fell off after 60 or 70 issues but it was actually fairly interesting
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Sep 27, 2022 15:34
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Darthemed posted:
Jet Ski throttles are on the right side, so unless Frank switched that, he'd be sinking.
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Sep 27, 2022 15:42
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The only old punisher I remember is where Frank goes blackface for a few issues. That was weird.
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Sep 27, 2022 20:15
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Heavy Metal posted:Much thanks! And thank you the 90s. Vulpes Vulpes posted:That Doug Braithwaite fight between Batroc and Tarantula is one of my favourite comic book throwdowns, to the point I took my av from it.      The Punisher #69 (1992) Pencils: Dougie Braithwaite Inks: Al Williamson Colors: Christie Scheele
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Sep 27, 2022 21:07
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Darthemed posted:
Aw shoot his barrel shroud is disconnected and about to fall off. Dangers of carrying guns around seawater I guess.
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Sep 28, 2022 04:48
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Weird seeing Tarantula without the boot spikes.
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Sep 28, 2022 07:43
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Madkal posted:The only old punisher I remember is where Frank goes blackface for a few issues. That was weird. Considering that the Punisher is a relatively grounded character he has been through some weird poo poo.
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Sep 28, 2022 11:48
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Alhazred posted:Considering that the Punisher is a relatively grounded character he has been through some weird poo poo. He was also Frankenstein's Monster and an Angel at various points in time.
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Sep 28, 2022 12:04
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the MAX version is grounded, 616 definitely isn't
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Sep 28, 2022 15:29
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At one point in those early Punisher comics someone mentions that he's killed thousands of drug dealers and crime is still rampant and maybe they're also victims of their socio economic circumstances, bullets aren't the answer, and maybe something more should be done by politicians and the Punisher just goes 'welp, the war continues'.
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Sep 29, 2022 13:39
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John Mirra posted:At one point in those early Punisher comics someone mentions that he's killed thousands of drug dealers and crime is still rampant and maybe they're also victims of their socio economic circumstances, bullets aren't the answer, and maybe something more should be done by politicians and the Punisher just goes 'welp, the war continues'. It's pretty much openly stated that Punisher isn't doing what he's doing to reduce crime.
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Sep 29, 2022 17:29
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Alhazred posted:It's pretty much openly stated that Punisher isn't doing what he's doing to reduce crime. That was actually the point of the Punisher versus Marvel universe, where the universe is overtaken by a 28 days style plague but the punisher himself survived. It’s literally a comic about zombies and the overall theme is the punisher is a loving rear end in a top hat
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Sep 29, 2022 17:48
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Alhazred posted:It's pretty much openly stated that Punisher isn't doing what he's doing to reduce crime. I mean at this point it ain't like he can run for office to try and affect change from the inside! Then again Norman Osborn was the head of SHIELD and Kingpin just stopped being the mayor of NYC so who knows
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Sep 29, 2022 18:06
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His name is The Punisher, not The Stop Crimer. He punishes people who committed crimes, he doesn't stop them from happening.
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Sep 29, 2022 18:24
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But the Punisher doesn't want to try and affect change from the inside, he wants to shoot criminals.
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Sep 29, 2022 18:25
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Guys I think this Punisher fella might not be a nice person
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Sep 29, 2022 19:10
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Skwirl posted:His name is The Punisher, not The Stop Crimer. He punishes people who committed crimes, he doesn't stop them from happening. Frank Castle calmly smoking a cigarette as a guy stabs another guy to death a few feet away from him, waiting patiently for the victim to stop breathing.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:26
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Tony: "Because if we can't protect the earth, you can be drat well sure we'll avenge it." Frank, from off-screen: "And punish you! We are so gonna punish you all!"
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Sep 29, 2022 19:29
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I find it easier to believe that the hulk has canonically never killed civilians in all his decade long multi trillion dollar world ending tantrums,than i believe the punisher shooting up a crack-den made of paper and wood in a poor neighbourhood with an M-60 only killed the “”””bad guys”””” who are somehow always black gangbangers armed to the teeth with a pistol or a deadly knife.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:33
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Grendels Dad posted:Tony: "Because if we can't protect the earth, you can be drat well sure we'll avenge it." Frank: "gently caress that would've been a good name for me! Now I'm just gonna have to stick with Punisher..."
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Sep 30, 2022 01:16
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Alhazred posted:But the Punisher doesn't want to try and affect change from the inside, he wants to shoot criminals. He could become a cop
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Sep 30, 2022 11:23
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Amazing Spider-Man #10 should just be renamed "Good Faces: The Comic Book"   
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Sep 30, 2022 15:28
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BiggerBoat posted:He could become a cop He's not interested in gunning down dogs or innocent BIPOCs, hth
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Sep 30, 2022 15:31
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:I find it easier to believe that the hulk has canonically never killed civilians in all his decade long multi trillion dollar world ending tantrums,than i believe the punisher shooting up a crack-den made of paper and wood in a poor neighbourhood with an M-60 only killed the “”””bad guys”””” who are somehow always black gangbangers armed to the teeth with a pistol or a deadly knife. News to me. All the Punisher stuff I've read he's been going after mobsters.
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Sep 30, 2022 16:54
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Admiralty Flag posted:He's not interested in gunning down dogs or innocent BIPOCs, hth On the other hand, he'd get a free car with his logo already on it
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Sep 30, 2022 17:40
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Yeah I don’t think punisher at his worst is going after crackheads, that’s way to low level for him. Crackheads might be involved but I don’t think they’ve ever been the focus
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Sep 30, 2022 19:05
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From the few arcs I have read of Punisher, specifically Max, it feels like he thinks the cops should be better than him and actually upheld the idea of justice where he sees himself as as upholding the idea of vengeance. I remember a few times he would actually get pissed off at cops, mostly for getting in his way but sometimes for actually supporting/emulating him.
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Sep 30, 2022 19:08
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I’m going off the MAX comics where he fights gangsters/slavers/mafia(which starts with gangsters)
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Sep 30, 2022 19:52
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TBH, more I think about it, a Punisher run where he joins the police force might actually be interesting. For all I know, it's already been done though but in the hands of a clever writer I can picture some ways to go with it. Even some smart rear end poo poo like "why do you have that decal on your car?" coupled with "do you even know who I AM?" that explores the idea of modern law enforcement could be a ripe area to draw some good stories from.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:31
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