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SwissArmyDruid posted:I am sitting here, getting roped by a Haughty Jinn deck because I managed to throw enough removal at them. We're both at 6 life with zero cards in hand. Yes? It's usually all you need and trying to fit in more just means losing games because you're drawing that garbage instead of cards that defend your main attacker.
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Sep 27, 2022 04:01
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MikeC posted:No expert but is Talas Lookout correct as P1P2? Destroy Evil seems to be a catchall removal spell against everything that matters and is easily splashable. Double pip U on the Lookout is gonna get cut unless you are base blue no?
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Sep 27, 2022 04:10
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Jabor posted:Yes? It's usually all you need and trying to fit in more just means losing games because you're drawing that garbage instead of cards that defend your main attacker. This is why I will never regularly get Mythic. I just don't understand that logic at all. If I was going to build that deck, I would rock the Delver to fill time until the Jinn comes online and absorb removal, and the Seize SPECIFICALLY for late game stalls. Seriously. I keep seeing turn 1 Considers, turn two do nothing, or Make Disappears without any other creatures to Casualty off of.... just.... what the heck. SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 04:11
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MikeC posted:No expert but is Talas Lookout correct as P1P2? Destroy Evil seems to be a catchall removal spell against everything that matters and is easily splashable. Double pip U on the Lookout is gonna get cut unless you are base blue no? I'd take lookout there. Destroy Evil actually has a better winrate than lookout, but destroy is picked later in packs and gets played less, which suggests that it's not outperforming cards in a vacuum; in-the-know drafters are benefitting from getting it late. My original comment was referring to p1p3 though, the next pack. Olive Branch posted:Honestly, Talas Lookout seems on even footing during the draft early, and Destroy Evil is only SLIGHTLY better in Premier Draft's BO1 data than Talas Lookout. I don't know if Destroy Evil is worth splashing as removal? I dunno, I never actually tried running it as a splash. Maybe I should, as well as Take Up the Shield on non-white decks? It's a very good splash actually because you're not casting it on turn 2, you're casting it later in the game which gives you time to find a white source. I've splashed for TUtS in a deck that had lots of fixing, but it's riskier since that card is more timing dependent and your window may have passed by the time you topdeck a white source in the late game. Murmur Twin posted:I know phyrexian espionage is good but all I see when I look at it is a worse version of Probe (one of my all time favorite draft cards) and it makes me irrationally dislike it since every other card seems like a stronger version of older stuff. Definitely an adjustment I've had to make to modern draft sets is having a short memory. Sets are so complex nowadays that you can't really rely on history to tell you what's going to be good (vampire spawn in afr is what really taught me this lesson). People ignored espionage when the set was spoiled because divination effects haven't been good for a while. I have my theorycraft reasons for why espionage is different but the important thing is that the numbers don't lie, putting it in your deck makes you more likely to win games.
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Sep 27, 2022 04:30
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managed to get hte defender deck to go off in draft, pinging a guy and milling him for 8 with a huge wall of birds to protect me was very funny. one thing ive noticed is people seem to forget about coral colony when blight pile hits the field, which has led to me snagging some good cards off hostile scry triggers with it rather than pinging with pile
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Sep 27, 2022 05:00
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Event #28 https://www.17lands.com/draft/98dad3707a344f01be0f99e50a399e65 Went 5-3 with this one, worse than the previous deck lol. I know I should be happy with a strictly positive result and the last trophy was so much luck in my favor, but I guess I had higher expectations with Jaya in tow. Had multiple games where Guardian of New Benalia was unstoppable. After the first loss to UR Duplimancy, lost to a Is this "obvious trick, don't block" or "make them have it" 
CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 05:08
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Evolved Sleeper or Tatyova P1P1?
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Sep 27, 2022 05:34
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Evolved Sleeper or Tatyova P1P1? I would personally go Sleeper just to not be locked into 2 colors on the first card.
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Sep 27, 2022 05:37
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I thought the same thing. Event #29  https://www.17lands.com/draft/04187e67fafd492a89e4f91da2fecd97 This turned into a bit of a soup. After Sleeper I started leaning towards UB, possibly influenced by the Sam Black podcast I just listened to on it, which is why I picked Vohar so early even though I probably wouldn't have done that yesterday lol. I speculated on a BG land early because I thought I might pick up Urborg Repo, which I never did because the only one I saw was in the same pack as a Guardian of New Benalia(!!) I ended up committing more to green after Bonerattle showed up and then it might as well be Domain, especially after the Lhurgoyf showed up. Then immediately after that I got passed Guardian of New Benalia and I was less disciplined than the two drafters before me lmao. After that I just committed to the jank and hoped to pick up enough lands to make this playable, I guess I'm hoping for the scry and draw in UB to sort things out? Edit: Telling myself first win is a gimme even though I killed Sheoldred twice lol  After this, I swapped in Pixie Illusionist and Tideturner as per the recommendation, cut the Swarm and Vivisector since the latter is basically a bear and who knows maybe Tideturner's mana is more useful CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 06:01
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:I thought the same thing. I would play the Pixie and maybe even throw in the Tideturner to maximize value from the Defiler. You could easily swap Pixie for the Swarm, and it would help with color fixing. You could also just cut the green cards entirely for more consistency.
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Sep 27, 2022 06:06
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Draft finally showed up on 17L, just took a full day lol If it was a trick, it's likely Take Up the Shield or Shore Up, or gently caress all. I'm not sure it's TUtS though, as I'd have used that as an excuse to attack with both dudes and potentially wreck your board. Personally I'd make them have it. You're probably trading a 2/2 for a Shore Up/TUtS or a creature (you have Love Song/Whelp for next two turns to build back board presence; and clearing out a Shore Up/TUtS is worth it if your deck has much removal). If they were in green, then I'd definitely let them through though. Death of Rats fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 08:43
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Is this "obvious trick, don't block" or "make them have it" I think I just block here? They probably have a trick but I'm happy for them to spend a card and slow their board development this turn. Whelp and Love Song aren't great on defense so I'm inclined to protect life total and delay their aggression until I get more mana and options with the instants in our hand.
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Sep 27, 2022 09:15
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little munchkin posted:If you're not just raredrafting p1p1 then phyrexian espionage is the strongest mono-color card. I wouldn't call this tunnel vision, it was absolutely crystal clear to me that I should have gone BW. I just didn't want to. Anyway, we'll see how it performs later!
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Sep 27, 2022 10:58
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Went 0-3 with this terrible draft. https://www.17lands.com/details/b77bda5ffff7494fb9a056fd6116e3b2 Made a play error in the third game where I forgot about Knight of Dawn's light's pump ability, otherwise I would have blocked it and died 1 turn later instead. Suggestions for improvement very welcome. Edit: I feel like I did a better job of picking good cards over bad cards than last time, but the deck lacked focus and I feel like I would have been better trying to stick to 2 colours with a splash instead of making a 3 colour deck. Urcher fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 13:53
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Urcher posted:Went 0-3 with this terrible draft. P1P2: If you're not hell-bent on a Defender deck (and why would you be without the only reason for it, the Chaplain), I see no argument for the Colony? Take Espionage here imo P1P3: Linebreaker Baloth sucks. Cult Conscript seems to be the best card here. Here you can definitely see Tatty "forcing" you into a color that has no good arguments for it P1P4: Relatively late Arrest, could be a reason to go into white. If you had gone for the Defiler first pick, this of course would have been fantastic. Shore Up is fine, but you can often pick it up later P1P5: fine choice, if I'd taken the Conscript before I'd have tried another here, people don't seem too interested in the Esper colors in general P1P6: Librarian P1P8: Don't really understand the Protector here, the figment is perfectly fine in your colors P1P9: yup, white's open and you see that now too. Of course, with the two Conscripts I'd slam Bone Splinters (<--- do not take this seriously) P1P10: you have zero good green cards. Even if you're hell-bent on Tatty, just splash her. Stall for time is fine here, your deck should be shaping up to be UW core splash green, mine would probably be UB at this point and I'd take Splatter Goblin P1P11: your better choice here: Herbalist (not great but better than the turtle, again arguing hard against green here), I'd happily take more aggro black P2P1: a tempting bomb, but you have zero fixing so far. I'd personally stay disciplined here and pick up the Terror P2P2: Lookout for me, Nael is fine for you but also you have a RG land here, exactly what you need to splash the previous bomb. Nael might table, the land will not P2P3: if you had pivoted to white, the Cavalier would be great P2P4: Phalanx for the white plan, Warhorse for me, your choice is fine if you now manage to pick up lands P2P5: Blast is horrible, again without any lands yet, play the Vineshaper imo. I'll happily take the second warhorse P2P6: Geyser is excellent for both of us but there's three lands here! You need that fixing! P2P8: reasonable for curve considerations, otoh a two-drop in your SPLASH color is not actually a two-drop. So Sentry imo for you, I'm a bit SOL here [skipping the rest because it's getting too divergent] P3P1: oof, another Hexcatcher, unlucky. What are you doing with the Shield-Wall?! Take the Mossbeard, a grade A green creature! I'm happy about the Tribute here, ofc P3P2: yay, Cut Down! You are doing well with the land at this point, but if you had taken more earlier, you could have gotten an excellent two-drop in Rootwalla that fits your plan P3P3: repeat after me: the Wall deck does not work without Chaplain. I love Rager, you could have another Geyser or even more lands P3P6: if you're not raredrafting, the painland is way worse than the taplands in Limited; could argue for Zur tbh P3P8: Prodigy is a potential two-drop, has a great kicker, what are you going to do with Combat Research, put it on the Figment you passed? I think the issue is that you were locking yourself into two colors too early, not picking lands highly enough for the domainy-splashy-multicolored stuff you ended up getting, and you were forcing a wall theme that's garbage without the big wall payoff. There was a pretty strong aggressive UB deck in this draft, but honestly, you could have had a much better UG splashing white or straight UW deck too. I don't know if my path would have been correct in the end, but you ended up severely overvaluing some stinkers which diluted your card quality way too much.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:31
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Urcher posted:Went 0-3 with this terrible draft. p1p1: disagree with Simple Simon here, Tatyova is one of the top uncommons in the set and you can just think of it as a mono green card considering how easy it is for that color to splash. p1p2: Colony isn't a good card unless you have a wingmantle chaplain in your pool already. Defenders get punished by so many things this set (big creatures, combat tricks people just 2-for-1ing you to death while you're not able to attack them. Espionage or Destroy Evil are better cards p1p3: Baloth is just super replaceable. There's lots of big expensive creatures in green and you can just play whichever ones fall to you late. Cult Concript on the other hand is uniquely powerful as a good turn 1 play that enables cards like phyrexian warhorse and bone splinters. p2p2: Nael is pretty mid and you just took a red mythic. This is a pretty easy Wooded Ridgeline for me. There were good u/g cards in pick 1, if you're taking something off-color instead, you need to prioritize fixing to justify that decision. p2p3: Bog Badger is a totally acceptable curve-filler. Timely is not good if you don't care about spells and can't kick it. p2p5: Why not the vineshaper prodigy, I'm super confused here. If you want to be playing all the colors you need to take mana fixers more often than you do. p2p8: Maginoth Sentry is a good card in your colors and rootweaver is a bad cards that is not in your colors. p2p11: This isn't a bad pick from you with what you have so far but seeing Elfhame Wurm this late is what I meant when i say if you want a big expensive green thing you don't need to be taking them early. p3p1: Mossbeard Ancient looks really good here. The walls deck does not function without Wingmantle Chaplain. Without chaplain it's just too easy for them to use a removal spell on your one payoff cards and then the rest of your defenders don't do anything. p3p3: mana fixing!!!!!! If you had taken fixing earlier you could even go with the Fire of Victory which is a house. There's even a Geyser!!! Huge unforced error here taking a defender instead. p3p8: another prodigy! If you're going to force u/g please take the u/g cards when their presented to you. Combat research sucks. It only does something if you have good attacks, and if you have good attacks, then you're already winning and don't need the research. If you're behind though research won't contribute at all. You're main problem was trying to draft two different decks at the same time, which left both halves undersupported. You had a good domain deck going but it kept getting derailed the walls package you were drafting at the same time. With just one Coral Colony you're not getting paid off enough for those defenders. Also maybe you tunnel-visioned into G/U a little early due to Tatyova. Don't be afraid in this set to take a gold card and think "ok I am one of these colors, if the other color is open I'll play something else and try to splash for this. little munchkin fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 15:15
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Urcher posted:Went 0-3 with this terrible draft. I'll have a go with this. P1P2: I would have gone Phyrexian Espionage I think, Destroy Evil is also good in that pack. Coral Colony is only worth getting if you've already got Wingmantle Chaplin in my mind. P1P3: I'd be tempted between Cult Conscript or a land here, either to stay open with strong cards, or to push towards a domain deck. I think I'd have gone Cultist. P1P4: If you're hedging on walls you want the sentinel here. Otherwise Gaia's Might over Shore Up I think. P1P5: If you'd gone down domain lines rootwalla would be great here, Essence Scatter is also great though. P1P8: Haunting Figment I think here, just as an okay two drop. Griffin isn't worth getting into white here. P1P12-13: Hey, they wheeled anyway! I think it's worth pointing out that had you gone Destroy Evil at pick 2, you could get two Cult Conscripts, Citizen's Arrest, Writhing Necromass, Love Song, a couple of Spatter Goblins and a Benalish Sleeper, leaving you in a good position to go B/W. So many routes in DOM drafting! P2P1: Tolarian Terror is good for your deck here, but Shivan is very splashable so it could be either. Shivan slam pick if you'd followed domain though. P2P5: Artillery Blast isn't great outside of domain I think Vineshaper here. P2P8: Why do you keep grabbing mediocre to bad white after passing some decent white? Magnigoth Sentry would have been better here. P2P10: Elfhame Wurm over Artillery Blast B/W looked pretty open again this pack. P3P1: Mossbeard would be great for your deck at this point, stabilise while you get your flying lands going. P3P2: This land is good for fixing for you, but another Essence Scatter wouldn't be bad either. P3P3: Tolarian Geyser for sure here. P3P8: I'd grab the Vineshaper again here I think P3P11: Geyser is back?! Congrats on this insane wheel! Overall I think you missed a strong B/W deck in there, and wasted a few picks on mediocre white cards. https://sealeddeck.tech/DQpDrNwAwG I think I'd have built it like this? Early defensive into late big boys. Its difficult though, not many decent two drops.
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Sep 27, 2022 15:24
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i think there's a good Jinnie Fay deck to be had in Standard, this is my first crack at it. it's doing really well, but i need better lands 2 x Lunarch Veteran 3 x Goldhound 3 x Strangle 2 x Lantern Flare 4 x Gala Greeters 3 x Llanowar Loamspeaker 2 x Adeline, Resplendant Cathar 3 x Borrowed Time 2 x Halo Fountain 2 x Wedding Announcement 4 x Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second 3 x Elspeth Resplendant 2 x Farewell 2 x Vanquish the Horde 1 x Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire 4 x Plains 3 x Mountain 1 x Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance 3 x Forest 1 x Karplusan Forest 3 x Rockfall Vale 3 x Sundown Pass 3 x Overgrown Farmland 1 x Jetmir's Garden not sure about the best removal suite yet, and have been tuning the number of Adelines and Goldhounds. Goldhound is a card everyone is sleeping on imo.
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Sep 27, 2022 16:10
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lmao i have been defeated twice by rulik mons, warren chief now Edit: I was not happy to draw Pixie Illusionist late and I haven't ever seen Defiler lol... I think I need Battleswarm in these grindy games, switching back. Also feels bad that I think I messed up one of these games by playing the wrong tapland first, when I'm managing 4 colors I need to pay more attention to that CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 16:33
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Edit: I was not happy to draw Pixie Illusionist late and I haven't ever seen Defiler lol... I think I need Battleswarm in these grindy games, switching back. Also feels bad that I think I messed up one of these games by playing the wrong tapland first, when I'm managing 4 colors I need to pay more attention to that I would personally be happier to draw a 3/3 flyer late than a 1/1 Deathtouch, but maybe it depends on the kind of matchup.
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Sep 27, 2022 17:12
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qbert posted:I would personally be happier to draw a 3/3 flyer late than a 1/1 Deathtouch, but maybe it depends on the kind of matchup. Yeah I think the deck's potentially slow start means that I'm facing down a lot of big ground creatures and can't attack even if the air is clear. It wouldn't have made a difference with specifically losing to Defiler of Instinct but swarm would at least threaten to hold back sojourner / magnigoth / treefolk / outrider etc. I have a multiple destroy evils but there's a lot of evil around lol. Guardian has felt less explosive in this deck, so many situations where it ends up "discard a card for fog" or "uh discard a card and tap another creature to scry if you want to get further behind" lol Evolved Sleeper feels potentially powerful but everyone knows that so that's why it dies instantly every time so far, still haven't gotten to the "Draw a Card" evolution. Nearly lost a game because I brain farted and forgot that Vohar's sac ability is only sorcery speed, that's something to remember I did get to have a 6/7 Lhurgoyf, that was fun Edit: Defiler of Dreams, thanks for finally showing up lol. Also unanswered Sleeper on turn 1 finally did the work 
CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 18:05
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qbert posted:I would personally be happier to draw a 3/3 flyer late than a 1/1 Deathtouch, but maybe it depends on the kind of matchup. I do not agree with this statement.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:18
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precision posted:i think there's a good Jinnie Fay deck to be had in Standard, this is my first crack at it. it's doing really well, but i need better lands I run a deck with Jinnie Fay, but its Jund and treasure based: 4x Cut Down 3x Sticky Fingers 4x Infernal Grasp 4x Riveteers Requisitioner 4x Gala Greeters 4x Fable of the Mirror-Breaker 4x Professional Face-Breaker 4x Jinnie Fay, Jetmir's Second 3x Ziatora, the Incinerator 2x Titan of Industry 2x Swamp 1x Takenuma, Abandoned Mire 3x Mountain 2x Boseiju, Who Endures 1x Forest 4x Haunted Ridge 4x Deathcap Glade 4x Rockfall Vale 3x Ziatora's Proving Ground I win probably 2/3 games, I need to speed up the land base. The deck turns treasures into ramp for Ziatora and Titan. The treasures can make dogs/cats with Jinnie for Ziatora to nuke things, which then turn those tokens back into treasures at a rate of 3-1, and Jinnie turns them back into more tokens, etc. When it combos it is only really beatable by mass wipe decks, and even then, you can usually get your board set back up.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:32
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5-3, another one where I feel pretty good about going positive (especially with this pile lol) but with cleaner play I think I could have done better. When the deck did its thing it was cool though 
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Sep 27, 2022 19:34
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i've been having a LOT of success with Pixie Illusionist in Draft, it's a good card
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Sep 27, 2022 19:50
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precision posted:i've been having a LOT of success with Pixie Illusionist in Draft, it's a good card Mana fixing flyer for 1 mana that can be played as a 3/3 beater in the late game. Yes please
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Sep 27, 2022 20:03
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my only complaint about draft right now is that Sultai Domain is too good. i think even if you pick the worst cards you'd still end up in a good deck
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Sep 27, 2022 20:06
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Whooping Crabs posted:Mana fixing flyer for 1 mana that can be played as a 3/3 beater in the late game. Yes please I agree with this statement.
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Sep 27, 2022 20:14
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Pixie Illusionist is a good card. I'd just rather have a Battlefly Swarm most of the time.
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Sep 27, 2022 20:15
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lmao first opponent in this midweek poo poo is a 90 card Yorion deck that just happens to have Ashiok, just happens to mill Emergent Ultimatum, and just happens to have Mizzex's Mastery. on turn 4 amazing. just a wonderful game. so fair
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Sep 27, 2022 20:21
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Anyone feel like taking a look at a sealed pool? I have a first run build. I feel like I'm getting a little precious with the Sol'Kanar plan, but I'm not sure what else to build around. I only have 12 creatures that can turn sideways, and I'm pretty sure that's not right. https://sealeddeck.tech/5VSyoHyjNG My mana base seems rough. I tried putting together WGu and WUg, but both just feel too creature light to be worth it. BW shows some promise based on card quality, but I'm not sure I have enough playables since my ability to splash out of those colors is limited to the mana rock and Thran Portal. And honestly I'm not sure what I would be splashing at that point. Tolarian terror and phyrexian espionage? Maybe Raff? Boxman fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 20:28
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precision posted:lmao first opponent in this midweek poo poo is a 90 card Yorion deck that just happens to have Ashiok, just happens to mill Emergent Ultimatum, and just happens to have Mizzex's Mastery. on turn 4 Yeah, I thought I could get my 3 wins and get out but quickly remembered why I stopped playing historic.
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Sep 27, 2022 20:57
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I played my updated Cleave deck and boy, do I miss Cleave.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:28
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I just -2 Liliana in draft targeting myself, so that I could kill my opponent with a single Elas il-Kor ping. Also at 5-0. This is the best draft ever.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:32
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MasterBuilder posted:Yeah, I thought I could get my 3 wins and get out but quickly remembered why I stopped playing historic. Just cheese it with the Minion of the Mighty deck. The only thing that beat it was another Minion deck, but otherwise I got 3 turn-2 scoops.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:41
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MasterBuilder posted:Yeah, I thought I could get my 3 wins and get out but quickly remembered why I stopped playing historic. I'm just playing gates and making HUGE RAMS does the cycling deck still work in historic? just hit them with a zenith flare for 25 or move on if they have counterspells
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Sep 27, 2022 22:01
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I think there are some strong cycling cards in historic that are rare and useless otherwise. Which means you need to spend those or suffer the agony of playing a suboptimal deck. Anyways, my opponents got flashbacks an conceded the moment they saw the cauldron familiar.
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Sep 27, 2022 22:05
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VictualSquid posted:I think there are some strong cycling cards in historic that are rare and useless otherwise. Which means you need to spend those or suffer the agony of playing a suboptimal deck. No need for the rare amonkhet cycling payoffs, the onslaught common cycling lands are historic legal and if you really want to play that deck those are easy crafts.
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Sep 27, 2022 22:27
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little munchkin posted:Definitely an adjustment I've had to make to modern draft sets is having a short memory. Sets are so complex nowadays that you can't really rely on history to tell you what's going to be good (vampire spawn in afr is what really taught me this lesson). People ignored espionage when the set was spoiled because divination effects haven't been good for a while. I have my theorycraft reasons for why espionage is different but the important thing is that the numbers don't lie, putting it in your deck makes you more likely to win games. this is a pretty good point but i just wanted to nitpick and say that the power of vampire spawn not being recognized is probably due more to the lack of stats. without stats telling us the card is good, people just couldnt tell that a 4 point life swing on a reasonable body is good. same with 2 mana life linkers, no one realized mesa unicorn was good in the m19 days
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Sep 27, 2022 22:27
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Corbeau posted:Pixie Illusionist is a good card. its a 55% GIH winrate card. which means its playable, but not something you want to include in your deck. as fixing its kind of a last resort and the body is just not very relevant. same for swarm really. theres just way stronger things going on in this format
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Sep 27, 2022 22:33
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