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Bloody Pom posted:The impression I'm getting from all the pre-release youtubers is to, unless you're playing as them, ruthlessly crush the Servants without mercy, since their endgoal is actively hostile to pretty much everyone else's efforts. Yeah, and they’re jerks.
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Sep 28, 2022 03:34
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The AI seems a lot better about bullying the Servants too now and isn't letting them keep total control over any superpowers in my current game. I'm curious though, if any other faction reaches their victory conditions does it mean I lose? Is it game over for me because Exodus fucks off in the ship?
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Sep 28, 2022 03:39
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I designed a fast, short range gunship class just for destroying Servant habs, and I have a couple of my councilors on search and destroy mode for their councilors
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Sep 28, 2022 03:39
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Arven posted:The AI seems a lot better about bullying the Servants too now and isn't letting them keep total control over any superpowers in my current game. it's early access, there's a non-zero chance there isn't anyway to win right now
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Sep 28, 2022 03:42
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Arven posted:The AI seems a lot better about bullying the Servants too now and isn't letting them keep total control over any superpowers in my current game. No, the devs have said some factions can win without ending the game for the others. We don’t know yet what the faction win conditions are, I don’t think.
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Sep 28, 2022 03:50
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Project Exodus' goal seems to be pretty clear-cut at least, and I understand that it doesn't impact anyone else if they 'win'.
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Sep 28, 2022 04:11
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One of the achievements is "Phoenix: Win as Resistance after Servant or Protectorate Win" so it sounds like having an opponent win just changes the game state and makes it much harder for you.
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Sep 28, 2022 04:29
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Maybe they’ve changed it then, during or before the first demo period the devs said on the discord that some win conditions would end the game for the other factions. I’d assumed that a Servants win would be one of those.
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Sep 28, 2022 04:37
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I don't agree with them, but I can respect Exodus' taking "if it sucks, hit da bricks" to the most extreme
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Sep 28, 2022 04:58
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I’m enjoying this game a lot, but holy poo poo is it opaque. The pip system is fascinating but with everything so slow motion and interrelated, I have great difficulty figuring out where to put the pips. I think the early game priorities are: * Get a councillor who can take over countries * Take over a country that has good science potential * Take over a country that has good boost potential * Take over a couple of other countries to specialise in individual things you need (armies, cash, mission control etc). * Get 1/2 space stations around earth for the science boosts. * Get a mine on Luna/Mars * Get a space station that can build ships * Tech up and do missions? It doesn’t seem possible to materially change the economy (IP income), tech level, military tech level or democratisation of any countries in the first 5 years at least. Things that you can mess up with the priorities: - You *can* tank unity fairly easily if you grow your country. I get the sense you’re actually worse off a lot of the time by blobbing; it reduces your total investment points and potential to specialise. - If you don’t invest enough in the economy it can shrink badly enough to delete control points. This seems bad. Also it’s probably going to get banned out here given that (1) TW starts off independent and (2) there is a “retake mainland China” path. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 05:09
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m enjoying this game a lot, but holy poo poo is it opaque. The pip system is fascinating but with everything so slow motion and interrelated, I have great difficulty figuring out where to put the pips. I actually think an early space station is a bit of a trap. You don't really need the research boost and the space station is a constant drain on your boost before you get mining set up, and you need to hoard boost like a dragon so you can rush the good sites on luna/mars. and w/r/t growing your country. It depends. Its more efficient on your control points cap to have everything be in one country.
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Sep 28, 2022 06:14
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Two questions for people who don't have chronic restartitis like me: 1: How do you get a nation to enter a federation? I'm in control of Kazakhstan, they're allied with Russia and are part of the Eurasian Union same as Russia, but I don't have the option to have Kazakhstan enter a federation when I use Decide National Policy in Kazakhstan. Both nations are able to change their diplomatic status, so I'm not sure what's up. 2: What are the Academy's goals, exactly? This is kind of embarrassing, as I'm trying to play them, but I'm not really sure how to achieve their goals. I know the Servants want to bend over with their trousers down and invite the aliens in, while Humanity First is all  , but the Academy seems to be playing the middle field in some way I can't exactly fathom. Will I need sociology labs so I can research universal translators? Or will I need weapons labs and space docks to force the aliens to the treaty table?
CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 07:53
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The only real divergence point for all the factions that aren't the servants is their unique tech line, which isn't very big. I believe the Academy want to build a colony ship and GTFO. The Resistance get projects like the xeno-defoliants which give a big malus to alien operatives trying to xenoform inside territory they control. I think the main divergence point for each faction is when you research alien operations, which lets you spot alien operatives, and finally unlock "the plan".
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Sep 28, 2022 08:02
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The Academy wants to impress alien-senpai.
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Sep 28, 2022 08:13
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Cynic Jester posted:The Academy wants to impress alien-senpai. Yeah, it's the Exodus Initiative that wants to hit da bricks. The Academy's goal is to negotiate with the aliens as equals- I'm just not really clear whether that is going the Star Trek Federation route or telling the xenos to choose between words or bullets.
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Sep 28, 2022 08:38
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I think narratively the weird thing is that the aliens seem to have specific goals from the outset. Xenoform Earth, mind control nations and give the Servants a bunch of resource so they can nuke super powers and all the factions have their own specific end goal tech that gives them their win condition. From a story perspective I think it would have made more sense, especially considering the intentionally slow pace of the game, if the aliens goal were opportunistic and heavily influenced by the factions themselves. If Humanity First gets a massive power base and legitimately threatens the aliens existence, that's when they decide humanity needs to be wiped out. If the Academy is ascendant they're more likely to work politically with humanity, maybe even sell them technology and work out some kind of peace deal. But the aliens open up by trying to trigger a nuclear exchange and puppeting every super power on the planet, which renders all the factions that aren't the resistance/humanity first completely stupid.
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Sep 28, 2022 08:39
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CommissarMega posted:Two questions for people who don't have chronic restartitis like me: You have to have controlled them for 180 days before you can federate or unite nations - i.e., if you want to undo Brexit you have to wait 180 days after controlling both England and an EU nation to add England to the EU, then another 180 days if you want to merge them into an EU blob to reduce admin costs.
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Sep 28, 2022 13:34
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Demiurge4 posted:I think narratively the weird thing is that the aliens seem to have specific goals from the outset. Xenoform Earth, mind control nations and give the Servants a bunch of resource so they can nuke super powers and all the factions have their own specific end goal tech that gives them their win condition. From a story perspective I think it would have made more sense, especially considering the intentionally slow pace of the game, if the aliens goal were opportunistic and heavily influenced by the factions themselves. Technically it only makes the Academy/Initiative/Protectorate stupid. Well, it doesn't make the Servants more stupid than they are for existing at all. Speaking of them, does the in-game lore make sense for why the Servants are led by whom I'm assuming is a fundamentalist American evangelical? I'd think they'd be the most hostile out of anyone to an alien species, since it goes against their narrative that God created the universe for the sole purpose of putting them on top of the food chain.
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Sep 28, 2022 14:08
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Quixzlizx posted:Technically it only makes the Academy/Initiative/Protectorate stupid. Well, it doesn't make the Servants more stupid than they are for existing at all. She’s supposed to be the kind of person who’s an extremist first and anything else second. So it turns out she wasn’t that committed to evangelical Christianity, she just liked being a fundamentalist.
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Sep 28, 2022 14:12
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Canuck-Errant posted:You have to have controlled them for 180 days before you can federate or unite nations - i.e., if you want to undo Brexit you have to wait 180 days after controlling both England and an EU nation to add England to the EU, then another 180 days if you want to merge them into an EU blob to reduce admin costs. Ah, right then, thanks! Man, this is gonna make Kyrgyzstan a surprising political battlefield since it has only one CP and part of the Eurasian Union.
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Sep 28, 2022 14:35
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If anyone has any suggestions for things that need to be added in the OP, just let me know. I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed myself by the game. Like many people said, for me the main problem comes down to how hard it is to parse what's going on, or what's the effect of actions I take. I don't mind micromanaging councilors in the early game and whatnot, but I need better information on what the gently caress is going on globally. At first I thought it was me not "understanding" the game too well, but it seems to be a common complaint. And also a player probably shouldn't have to understand how to read the game in the first place.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:19
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It still in early access right? I looks like my kind of game but I think Ill wait for a finished version and a few patches
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Sep 28, 2022 16:48
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Quixzlizx posted:Technically it only makes the Academy/Initiative/Protectorate stupid. Well, it doesn't make the Servants more stupid than they are for existing at all. The Protectorate are really just a branch of the Servants that want to try and take a harder bargaining position with their new overlords. The Initiative is stupid, but in the short-sighted short-term profit focused way that's characteristic of the groups they're supposed to be representing. Probably they don't even think of themselves as constituting a distinct faction organising a response to the invasion- they're leaving that to the other guys. The Academy are the real naïfs, but the game seems pretty cognizant of that. They start with massive support in most countries and then get that event that causes it to bleed to the extremists when it becomes obvious that the aliens aren't there to hug and make friends. I guess the real question is why the Academists themselves don't switch objectives at that point. That said, I'm not all that fond of the faction spread as it is. What's the difference between the Resistance and Humanity First really supposed to be? Is HF supposed to be the ones that will tank national economies to build up space assets and the Resistance the softer touch? There's no reason to play HF like that. Demiurge's alternate arc sounds interesting, though it would reframe faction selection in a weird way. What if you pick a militant faction and go into the game expecting a fight, and the aliens play it diplomatic? Do you try and sabotage talks to get your war or just fold up shop? That'd be interesting to play out but a very different game to what's being presented here.
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Sep 28, 2022 17:03
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Is HF supposed to be the ones that will tank national economies to build up space assets and the Resistance the softer touch? There's no reason to play HF like that. Something like this- the Resistance just wants the xenos to go the gently caress away and leave humans the gently caress alone. Humanity First wants to create the Imperium of Man. Once the xenos are gone, the Resistance will stand down and let humanity carry on, changed for sure, but independent on the whole, basically. HF wants Guardsmen planting the Aquila on Alpha Centauri.
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Sep 28, 2022 17:38
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Humanity First strike me as the people who will kill anyone who gets in their way while the Resistance wants to convince people to join them voluntarily, and that Humanity First keeps a list of anyone who got in their way so they can put them up against the wall when the aliens are gone while the Resistance doesn't care as long as they get their way. But I don't think there's anything in the game that holds you to that. That's why I think the game could benefit from periodic/emergency UN meetings where you can use your influence with powerful countries and the public platform to hurt the global public opinion of people who are caught using methods their supporters dislike, or bolstering the resolve of supporters by publicizing methods they like. Something as a later-game alternative to sending your counselors on constant public campaign circuits.
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Sep 28, 2022 19:02
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As I see it, the factions are something like this: The Servants: One of the easier factions to grasp, they think the aliens are divine and will do whatever they want, and that anyone who opposes them needs to die. I assume anyone in this thread has played X-Com, so I think of them as Advent. This makes them bad neighbors to have, and they tend to be nuke happy. The Protectorate: To continue the X-Com analogy, I think of the Protectorate as those nations that sign an agreement with the aliens. It's not that they think the aliens are good, just that they think surrender is a better option than fighting, making them somewhat ideological allies with the Servants. I can actually see the logic there since realistically fighting interstellar aliens seems doomed to failure, but that wouldn't make for much of a game. The Academy: These are the guys that think war is always bad and that we just have to talk it out. On the face of it that seems stupid once the aliens prove to be militaristic and start actively terrorizing humanity, but they're still aliens - the academy (those that remain at that point) think that if we just learn to communicate and find out what they want peace is still an option. The Resistance: Sort of the flip side of the Protectorate, the Resistance wants to fight for humanity's freedom against the aliens. They view the aliens as a threat, but aren't zealous about it - one assumes they'd be open (though suspicious) to negotiations as long as the aliens agreed to leave humanity alone. In the X-Com analogy, they are of course X-Com. Humanity First: The Imperium of Man, suffer not the xeno to live. May or may not regard the aliens as actual biblical demons, and want them all dead and don't care about collateral damage. Like the Servants, not great neighbors, though at least you can hope their armies and warships will be aimed at the aliens instead of you. Project Exodus: They just want to run away to a new system. I maintain this is fundamentally stupid because the aliens are already interstellar and have a coin flip of already controlling wherever Exodus ends up, but that's Exodus' problem. They're at least decent neighbors to have. The Initiative: 
Bremen fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 19:09
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Speaking of XCOM, here is what I used for my customization: I see The Resistance as XCOM rather than Humanity First because XCOM has voluntary membership and I don't see them going on a suffer not the xenos to live crusade after Earth is safe. edit: also, the objectives I'm currently on are "get a dead alien specimen" and "get alien salvage" which is XCOM as gently caress, though I don't know if any of the other factions have the same objectives at this point BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 19:21
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Any organization named "<Whatever> First" is going to be a group of assholes. The end doesn't always justify the means, if you lose yourself in the process, all of that.BattleMaster posted:Speaking of XCOM, here is what I used for my customization: Why isn't your Leader Title "John 'Central' Bradford" ? Why isn't your fleet name "Firebrand"? You need to restart your game, my man. Furism fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 19:47
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In fact, the obvious first mod anyone should make for this game is adding an XCOM organization that gives you an XCOM squad (yes, like in Civilization) as well as regular audio prompts from Bradford at random times.
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Sep 28, 2022 19:51
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Furism posted:Any organization named "<Whatever> First" is going to be a group of assholes. The end doesn't always justify the means, if you lose yourself in the process, all of that. Firebrand (and Big Sky from Enemy Unknown) are the callsigns of the pilots not the Skyranger designations  The Skyranger designations are "Voodoo <numbers>" but because the alien fleet designations are Victor and I can't change that to X-ray I went with X-ray for my own fleets so I wouldn't accidentally confuse V words. If I can mod the alien fleets to be designated X-ray then I'll go back and change my fleet designations.
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Sep 28, 2022 19:56
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BattleMaster posted:The Skyranger designations are "Voodoo <numbers>" but because the alien fleet designations are Victor and I can't change that to X-ray I went with X-ray for my own fleets so I wouldn't accidentally confuse V words. If I can mod the alien fleets to be designated X-ray then I'll go back and change my fleet designations. Alright, you're making a very good case and I'll stand corrected.
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Sep 28, 2022 20:20
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Bremen posted:The Initiative: The Initiative are more complex than that. Saying they are profit-motivated is only the most basic generalization of what they are. In terms of the faction ideologies, the Initiative is dead center. That's because they don't have an ideology. They are only concerned with influence, power and control. They are purely opportunistic. They are the "nothing is off the table" faction. If the resistance/HF are putting up a good fight and victory looks plausible, the Initiative will go down that route and fight the aliens, if only to make sure they have the biggest piece of the pie when the smoke clears. If the resistance is getting their teeth kicked in, the initiative might buddy up with the servants in the hopes of maintaining some kind of position in the new world order. They are the epitome of do whatever it takes to stay in control.
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Sep 28, 2022 20:29
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the in game and developer descriptions of factions is just super simplistic and cartoonish. they need personality or something I guess idk. But hopefully that’ll come as the game is developed further
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Sep 28, 2022 21:13
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Okay, it's 2032 and I've really hit a point now where I'm unsure what I should be doing. The plot tech is now all 30K plus so will take years, but I have more space resources than I know what to do with and could potentially field a huge fleet by cheesing mission controls in solar orbit. I've built a small fleet and have killed a few alien ships in orbit (albeit, taking ~50% casualties each time). Do I start attacking the aliens? Do I wait for the plot to tell me to do that? Do I just start hitting them and see where they draw the line on retaliating?
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Sep 28, 2022 21:34
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I don't know if it's a coincidence, but wiping out a Servant fleet in late 2033 caused things to go downhill really fast Russia became an alien nation and started sweeping up Kazakhstan and my other -stans, which took away a bunch of my mission control capacity. They then orbitally-bombarded earth with a dreadnought. I'm working on the North American Union which is probably going to be where I make my stand, but I might save my game before trying out a nuke if they attack Iran, which I let have a nuke as a treat.
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Sep 28, 2022 23:09
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Furism posted:Why isn't your Leader Title "John 'Central' Bradford" ? Because Bradford is my secretary. And my name is "Commander" to you
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Sep 28, 2022 23:11
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I picked up the game but I'm finding the tutorial pretty hard to follow. I guess that's not too bad since there appears to be a lot of hurry up and wait, at least in the early game. I like what I see so far.
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Sep 28, 2022 23:11
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So here's a funny thing. I'm on a Resistance run, pursuing an EU unification strat. I almost immediately decided that was a mistake- it takes so long to get rolling and locks up all your CP cap until it does- but I thought, y'know, it's a learning run, might as well roll with it and see what happens. So I'm doing that, trying to scrape together enough boost to establish an orbital presence and keeping an eye on where the other factions are going. Russia ends up in a 50-50 Exodus/Protectorate split, which isn't ideal but I can live with it for the moment. Then I see the first CP in the US has been flipped, by the Servants, and I am much less sanguine about that. So, what can I do about this? I can't get into the US myself, I have nothing to build on over there and I don't have the cap for it anyway. A crackdown-purge-abandon strat would mean rolling a lot of single digit % dice and the Servants would be looking to expand in any case. Then I notice that the US is still in a not great place stability-wise. Cohesion is low, unrest is about 2.5 and climbing, inequality is still high. And here I've somehow managed to acquire a council almost every member of which can run Increase Unrest missions or Public Campaigns or both, and at least one of them has a solid command score. I figure, if I can't take the US myself, I might as well wreck it for anyone else. After several months I've managed to establish strong public support for the cause and push unrest up to 5~6. The plan seems to be working- the US economy is tanking and investment and research has fallen through the floor. That's great, but the military aspects of the US are still intact- all those armies and nukes- as well as its boost output. At this point, whatever factors feed into Increase Unrest have reached such a point that I'm getting good odds on four councilors, without unsustainable ops investment. So I decide to go for broke- all out civil war in the US. Unrest skyrockets, investment craters, but when we hit the magical 10.0, something happens that I was not expecting:  Huh. So obviously I can't keep that, not unless I want to spend every point I've influence I've got, but now Exodus is the one with the foothold, and I figure I can let them have the US. So I abandon the nation and go back to nudging the EU together. It's now a year later and I still have every single one of those control points. They've been abandoned this whole time. I think what's going on is that, despite the fact that the points are cracked down, the US is still so large- and I still have such strong support- that no one is able to take them despite that. So, I can't draw any income- research, funding, boost- from the country while it's like this, but I can direct investment, control the armies and I think fire the nukes. I have a free superpower. Since I can't use anything I invest anything I'm just pouring all the investment into welfare and unity, so I guess what's happened is we've put a communist regime in that is notionally allied with the Resistance but still too scrambled to really help with a space program. Cool.  The Servants, meanwhile, have retreated to India and Japan and are launching invasions in Africa. So there's something else I have to deal with. Arven posted:Okay, it's 2032 and I've really hit a point now where I'm unsure what I should be doing. The plot tech is now all 30K plus so will take years, but I have more space resources than I know what to do with and could potentially field a huge fleet by cheesing mission controls in solar orbit. I've built a small fleet and have killed a few alien ships in orbit (albeit, taking ~50% casualties each time). Do I start attacking the aliens? Do I wait for the plot to tell me to do that? Do I just start hitting them and see where they draw the line on retaliating? Go for it. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 23:19
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:So here's a funny thing. That's exactly what I've been doing too in my first learning-the-game game, except, you know, doing it on principle and out of spite
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Sep 28, 2022 23:26
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Because Bradford is my secretary. And my name is "Commander" to you No no no, Commander. Central is the leader of the Resistance, he ain't nobody's secretary, what are you talking about.
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Sep 29, 2022 00:14
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